Grand Prix Rejects

We need a new acronym competition for Hispania.

Sullivangate wrote:We need a new acronym competition for Hispania.

Hilarious Racing Trash
Hilarious Racing Travesty
Horrendous Rolling Thing
Hilarious Reduction in Thoughtfulness
Herculean Roadblock Training

Cynon wrote:

Sullivangate wrote:We need a new acronym competition for Hispania.

Hilarious Racing Trash
Hilarious Racing Travesty
Horrendous Rolling Thing
Hilarious Reduction in Thoughtfulness
Herculean Roadblock Training

Hopelessly Racing Turtles?

Horribly
Ill prepared
Spaniards
Providing
Absolutely
Nothing
In
Action.

Highly undeRrated Team? There's unlocked potential there; just give them some time.

Popi_Larrauri wrote:I must jump in defense of DonTirri in just one aspect, if he is the best nominee for RORT it's another matter (personally, I think there are better ROTR). More than one just pointed what I'm about to object.

If the matter is that we are evaluating Button with just a Qualy Session, I must say that we are evaluating all the rest by the same measurement. If it's not valid for any driver, team, concept, track, then we must not post anything until sunday is over and press conference have ended. Therefore, if he considers that Button Qualy was crap than for now he is RORT until something new arises, that is: sunday race.

For the rest, it seems to be a fine an educated ranting for Mario and Don. so go on with it.

Well, whilst DonTirri and I might not always agree on things, we respect each others opinion - and it makes for a nice change when having a discussion like this feels more like a friendly discussion over a drink then the usual rants you see on some sites.

thehemogoblin wrote:The idiot who replaced Peter Windsor as SPEED pit reporter-- Oh god. So bad. I'd rather be serenaded by a Villeneuve-Legard duet.

Ye gods, that bad? It must sounds like hearing nails scratching down a blackboard.

Sullivangate wrote:Actually, I'm sure Simtek and Pacific were that far off in 94 but you get my point. Where are Pacific and Simtek now?

Then how about you ignore Virgin, Lotus and Hispania as Rejects because they were always going to be slow. They're rookies; mistakes are to be expected. It's the natre of the beast - we haven't had a new team that was started from scratch since Stewart Grand Prix in 1997. Perhaps the Reject of the Race award should instead be awarded to a regular driver who does something Rejectful. Like Jaime Alguersuari, who has the ignomity of being the only returning driver to be eliminated in Q1, being beaten by the less-experienced Nico Hulkenberg, Kamui Kobayashi and Vitaly Petrov. If you concentrate too much on the way the new teams are five seconds off the pace, you're going to miss out on all the other Rejectful stuff that happens. Like Ferrari changing both their engines before the first rac.

Captain Hammer wrote:

Sullivangate wrote:Actually, I'm sure Simtek and Pacific were that far off in 94 but you get my point. Where are Pacific and Simtek now?

Then how about you ignore Virgin, Lotus and Hispania as Rejects because they were always going to be slow. They're rookies; mistakes are to be expected. It's the natre of the beast - we haven't had a new team that was started from scratch since Stewart Grand Prix in 1997. Perhaps the Reject of the Race award should instead be awarded to a regular driver who does something Rejectful. Like Jaime Alguersuari, who has the ignomity of being the only returning driver to be eliminated in Q1, being beaten by the less-experienced Nico Hulkenberg, Kamui Kobayashi and Vitaly Petrov. If you concentrate too much on the way the new teams are five seconds off the pace, you're going to miss out on all the other Rejectful stuff that happens. Like Ferrari changing both their engines before the first rac.

Wise words. In a way, the travails of the new teams are so big, they are blocking the view from the remaining drivers' and teams' problems. There's plenty of (respectable!) laughing stock further up the grid. And what's more, some of us do deserve some egg on their faces - such as me, who've been predicting Webber was going to beat Vettel in qualifying...

Sullivangate wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:...
The grid, in both regards.

Pacific Team Lotus--> Lotus

Simtek--> Virgin

What's the HRT fake name that will be used? Bravo?

I've already gotten Team Fondmetal Malaysia to catch on some other sites.

if Lotus is Pacific, and Virgin is Simtek, then to complete the glorious triumvirate, HRT should be Forti... or HORTI?

Captain Hammer, for not letting me chose the highly rejectful 5 out of 6 rookie team retirements.

shinji wrote:Captain Hammer, for not letting me chose the highly rejectful 5 out of 6 rookie team retirements.

Seconded.

Sauber, for finishing behind the Lotii.

My ROTR is Sauber. Embarrasingly slow and both out early in the race. They were obviously faking their testing speed in the hope to get sponsors.

Sauber. Ew.

My ROTR has to be Mark Webber, for squandering a potentially race-winning car by making a mistake in qualifying, then missing his grid slot, causing a second-corner accident (his mechanics can take the blame for that one), and not making up any ground against the slower McLarens and Mercedes.

My levels of ROTR are all teams:

1st: Virgin - For all their trumpeting yesterday in qualifying, they vanished into nowhere while Lotus kept their cars on the road.
2nd: Red Bull - Opportunities lost, reeking of last year. Not giving their fans a great deal of confident.
3rd: Sauber - Eh? What happened?

Ferrari - they've been in desperate need of a very healthy serving of humble pie for a while now (criticising the new teams for being so slow, despite forgetting the fact that they spent fifteen years mired in their own inability), yet a 1-2 finish will only build their already-considerable egoes.

Captain Hammer wrote:Ferrari - they've been in desperate need of a very healthy serving of humble pie for a while now (criticising the new teams for being so slow, despite forgetting the fact that they spent fifteen years mired in their own inability), yet a 1-2 finish will only build their already-considerable egoes.

That's a funny joke, but what's your real answer?

1) Button - anybody heard his name in the broadcast?
3) Sauber - sad for Kobayashi

No number 2). This place is secured for Massa today.

Captain Hammer for letting his petty hatred for Ferrari ruin the thread. ROTR after a 1-2 win? Seriously?

Buemi - classified behind Kovalainen, epic fail.

shinji wrote:Captain Hammer, for not letting me chose the highly rejectful 5 out of 6 rookie team retirements.

I said you couldn't nominate them for being five seconds off the pace. Not that you couldn't nominate them for sheer not-thinking. Nothing I saw today falls into the latter category.

CarlosFerreira wrote:Wise words. In a way, the travails of the new teams are so big, they are blocking the view from the remaining drivers' and teams' problems. There's plenty of (respectable!) laughing stock further up the grid. And what's more, some of us do deserve some egg on their faces - such as me, who've been predicting Webber was going to beat Vettel in qualifying...

I probably should have posted that in my opening statement.

midgrid wrote:That's a funny joke, but what's your real answer?

That is my real answer. Ferrari's behaviour over the past few weeks has made them nothing more than a group of arrogant dickheads who think they're the only team in the sport and that everyone else is there by the grace of their charity. They've lost the soul that they carried for decades, and all just to make a political statement six months overdue. Their quest to show that Formula 1 does not need the new teams has only resulted in their demonstrating that the only team the sport does not need is Ferrari. They're more interested in beating their rivals off the track than on, and then having the nerve to claim that tey're doing it for the sport. I'm sure that Enzo Ferrari is rolling in his grave.

Ferrari deserve to go through an engine a race and watch helplessly as everyone breezes past them - even Hispania. They need some time at the back of the grid to remember where they came from. They're an embarrassment to their own name.

Hydraulics and gearboxes

The cause of at least 5 retirements. Or, Vettel's exhaust manifold, ruined a good fight for the victory. Massa had some problems too.

So in general lack of mechanical reliability when compared to last season. Maybe it's a good thing after all these years of bulletproof reliability, but it's happening to the wrong teams and drivers in my opinion.

Tealy wrote:My ROTR is Sauber. Embarrasingly slow and both out early in the race. They were obviously faking their testing speed in the hope to get sponsors.

Webber smoke screen deceiver device at the start: makes me remember Dick Dastardly methods. Actually ruined Kubica's and Sutil's (again, someone ruins his, men, this is a serious karma) race. And boy, specially Kubica had something today. (Who would be Muttley then? Horner?)

On a more seroius note Sauber's pace was apallingly slow, letting our Kobayashi hunger still unsatisfied.

HRT Pitcrew had no excuse to need 9 secs to change tyres. For christ sake, if there was something that they could actually test with no budget was exactly that.

Loucious liz Exhausting System. Sometimes down means down. Or it was that he was turning on his smoke screen to make both Ferrari spin out and backfired? You know, Dick Dastardly never got it his way in my childhood days, he should have learned.

Still I hold that USF1 should be awarded ROTR for the most expensive nosecone ever, no matter what at the race had happen.


Choose one of the above, all or none.

Captain Hammer wrote:

shinji wrote:Captain Hammer, for not letting me chose the highly rejectful 5 out of 6 rookie team retirements.

I said you couldn't nominate them for being five seconds off the pace. Not that you couldn't nominate them for sheer not-thinking. Nothing I saw today falls into the latter category.

CarlosFerreira wrote:Wise words. In a way, the travails of the new teams are so big, they are blocking the view from the remaining drivers' and teams' problems. There's plenty of (respectable!) laughing stock further up the grid. And what's more, some of us do deserve some egg on their faces - such as me, who've been predicting Webber was going to beat Vettel in qualifying...

I probably should have posted that in my opening statement.

midgrid wrote:That's a funny joke, but what's your real answer?

That is my real answer. Ferrari's behaviour over the past few weeks has made them nothing more than a group of arrogant dickheads who think they're the only team in the sport and that everyone else is there by the grace of their charity. They've lost the soul that they carried for decades, and all just to make a political statement six months overdue. Their quest to show that Formula 1 does not need the new teams has only resulted in their demonstrating that the only team the sport does not need is Ferrari. They're more interested in beating their rivals off the track than on, and then having the nerve to claim that tey're doing it for the sport. I'm sure that Enzo Ferrari is rolling in his grave.

Ferrari deserve to go through an engine a race and watch helplessly as everyone breezes past them - even Hispania. They need some time at the back of the grid to remember where they came from.

So what you're basically saying is that you would have chosen Ferrari no matter what had happened in the race, because of the team's actions and words over the off-season.

They're an embarrassment to their own name.

Ferrari just scored a clear one-two finish in the first race of the season, and seem to have one of the fastest cars, if not the fastest car of the season.

midgrid wrote:So what you're basically saying is that you would have chosen Ferrari no matter what had happened in the race, because of the team's actions and words over the off-season.

Their statement was strongly-worded. Why can't mine be of the same loaded rhetoric? Do you really think I should respect a team that doesn't respect anyone?

Captain Hammer wrote:That is my real answer. Ferrari's behaviour over the past few weeks has made them nothing more than a group of arrogant dickheads who think they're the only team in the sport and that everyone else is there by the grace of their charity. They've lost the soul that they carried for decades, and all just to make a political statement six months overdue. Their quest to show that Formula 1 does not need the new teams has only resulted in their demonstrating that the only team the sport does not need is Ferrari. They're more interested in beating their rivals off the track than on, and then having the nerve to claim that tey're doing it for the sport. I'm sure that Enzo Ferrari is rolling in his grave.

Yes, but it has nothing to do with race, as it is the Reject of the Race we're discussing. If Ferrari had been beaten by Lotus and Virgin and HRT, your point would have been valid. As it stands, it's more of a Rantbox opinion.

Can I vote for RBR, for letting Vettel down!!

Nuppiz wrote:Hydraulics and gearboxes

The cause of at least 5 retirements. Or, Vettel's exhaust manifold, ruined a good fight for the victory. Massa had some problems too.

So in general lack of mechanical reliability when compared to last season. Maybe it's a good thing after all these years of bulletproof reliability, but it's happening to the wrong teams and drivers in my opinion.

OK, reviewing the race, there are several good candidates. Firstly, the Xtrac drivetrain (used in 4 out of the 5 cars which retired with gearbox and hydraulics problems), which seem to be simply not up to the job.
Next, I agree that Vettel's cracked exhaust manifold spoiled what could have been an interesting fight for the finish, and it also looked like Massa might have had a few problems there too (what was Smedley looking for towards the end of the race? It looked like he was trying to spot something on Massa's right sidepod).
Also, why did Buemi stop a lap or two from the end of the race? Did he run out of fuel, or was it a mechanical failure?
But, for me the rejects of the race are Sauber - a double retirement, and no pace at all, making it clear that they must have been running light to attract sponsors in the test sessions. All in all, a pretty dismal performance.

muttley wrote:Yes, but it has nothing to do with race, as it is the Reject of the Race we're discussing. If Ferrari had been beaten by Lotus and Virgin and HRT, your point would have been valid. As it stands, it's more of a Rantbox opinion.

But the Reject Of The Race has been given to statements before the race more than once before, I remember 2005 Australia (Paul Stoddart) and some 2003 race, I think it was Canada, (F1 team bosses), so therefore his nomination is as valid as every other one. And to be perfectly honest, I think I can at least partly agree

But these are my main nominations:

BMW Sauber-Ferrari - were nowhere before retiring and looking weak all through the weekend, nothing about them meeting expectations

Vettel's exhaust pipe - robbing us of a very exciting finish

RTL - just screw you ... going to advertising before Barrichello crosses the line!

I vote for the 2nd sector, the changes to the track made things worse and was wholly unnecessary, and added to a fairly tedious race that promised much and delivered little. Also bridgestone deserve a mention, as the harder tyres were rubbish. We might have had a better race if the harder tyre worked and allowed the midfield runners to mix it with the guys that started on the softs.

Definately has to be hydraulics. Ruined a great little scrap between Kovalainen and Glock, (my highlight of the race) it was shaping up to be a race long battle.

In the end it accounted for both Saubers, both Virgins and Trulli's Lotus on the last lap. I think the thing to note is where were Williams' failures? Theres clearly reliability issues with the Xtrac gearbox and the hydraulics associated with it, but I think installation has a major part to play. We know Lotus have modified theirs, hence why both cars (pretty much) managed full race distances and the others not so. Same thing applies to Williams, they clearly know what they're doing and have made sure what they are using is reliable. Same as the Renault powerplant in the Red Bull last year, the factory team had no failures, yet look at all the issues the customer had. Clearly something to do with installation.

Of the new teams, the Virgin is clearly the fastest, but unreliable. Had Chandhok not blown it, a direct comparision with HRT may put Virgin as the most unreliable of the new teams. Lotus are strong, but not quick, testament to the conservative approach on the car. Once they get that fixed they'll be the best of the new boys. As for HRT, some good running for Senna, he managed something like 22 laps didn't he? Pretty good all things considered.

Overall, the racing wasn't bad, not a stand out grand prix but nothing like what some doom-mongers were predicting.

Captain Hammer wrote:

midgrid wrote:So what you're basically saying is that you would have chosen Ferrari no matter what had happened in the race, because of the team's actions and words over the off-season.

Their statement was strongly-worded. Why can't mine be of the same loaded rhetoric? Do you really think I should respect a team that doesn't respect anyone?

You are perfectly entitled (and IMO justified) to criticise Ferrari for some of their off-season statements, but you are conflating Ferrari's on-track performance and their off-track rhetoric. In short, you don't have to like Ferrari, but you should respect their performance over the race weekend, which is what this thread is meant to be about.

Bahrain GP 2010 !!! There I said it....everything went as expected, no real surprise.

midgrid wrote:You are perfectly entitled (and IMO justified) to criticise Ferrari for some of their off-season statements, but you are conflating Ferrari's on-track performance and their off-track rhetoric. In short, you don't have to like Ferrari, but you should respect their performance over the race weekend, which is what this thread is meant to be about.

+1

midgrid wrote:You are perfectly entitled (and IMO justified) to criticise Ferrari for some of their off-season statements, but you are conflating Ferrari's on-track performance and their off-track rhetoric. In short, you don't have to like Ferrari, but you should respect their performance over the race weekend, which is what this thread is meant to be about.

If Honda could be given the Reject of the Race award at the first race of 2009 for their off-season antics, Ferrari can be, too.

My ROTR: FOM for not showing the reason for the most important development of the race, Karun Chandhok's retirement

1 - Sauber Slow in qualifying, showed a sign of pace in the race only to kill it with a double mechanical retirement. It's going to be a looooong season for them methinks.

2- Hispania Racing Team 3 seconds slower than the other newbies and only lasted a handful of laps between them. As I said, I'm not comparing them to Ferrari, I'm comparing them to Virgin and Lotus, and on that comparison, they were rejectworthy.

3 - Jenson Button Anonymous compared to Hamilton.

Captain Hammer wrote:

midgrid wrote:You are perfectly entitled (and IMO justified) to criticise Ferrari for some of their off-season statements, but you are conflating Ferrari's on-track performance and their off-track rhetoric. In short, you don't have to like Ferrari, but you should respect their performance over the race weekend, which is what this thread is meant to be about.

If Honda could be given the Reject of the Race award at the first race of 2009 for their off-season antics, Ferrari can be, too.

Honda was given the award, from what I could see, because their off-season antics were complemented by the on-track action that followed. Ferrari's off-season antics have been negated, and indeed their criticism of the new teams strengthened, by the on-track action that followed. Perhaps there is a case for nominating "Ferrari PR", "Luca Coljanni" or "Luca di Montezemolo" for ROTR, but nominating the entire team when it has just had the best weekend of any of them is hyperbole to make a point (Virgin Racing fan... ).

I think its too early to award ROTR to a new team. We expected them to be crap and they met expectations.

So:-

Sauber - Being slow and retiring, showing that all the etesting pace was just to get some sponsors in.

Mark Webber - Outclassed by Vettell all weekend, got it wrong in Q3, and wasted a really fast car by cruising around behind Button half the afternoon. Also took out Kubica with the smokescreen at the start of the race.