Grand Prix Rejects

ZsoltForever wrote:I don't think he qualifies as ROTR, but Massa once again proved that he melts like the Wicked Witch when it rains. Yes, Alonso's move into the pits was very dodgy, but Massa did nothing ... pre- or post-Alonso pass. Massa's lack of form in the wet will always be his Achilles heel.

That said ... (race only division)

Bronze: Williams. You are woodwork, you suck. Every year, it seems, my F1 buddies say out loud, "This is the year Williams gets its together" ... and they never do. Their race strategy yesterday ... well, what was it again? I wonder how Nico Hulkenberg, the most sought-after GP2 driver from the class of '09, feels about seeing Vitaly Petrov get into points-paying contention when he's mired amongst the Lotus and Virgin dreck.
Silver: Sauber. If Williams are woodwork and if they suck, Sauber is the suckiest bunch of sucks who ever sucked. Ugly livery, boring as all git out lead driver, total unreliability, etc. I respect Peter Sauber, but the return to privateering has not been pretty.
Gold: Stewards. Anything that would be construed as even a 50/50 call should be handled with draconian force if it happens in the pits or even pit entry. It's ridiculously dangerous to have a Vettel/Hamilton-style situation with all of the people in the pit lane. As for pit entry, drivers should not expect to be overtaken once they exit the track proper. Both Hamilton and Alonso should have been penalized.

Great (sucky) post!

Myrvold wrote:Instead Hamilton misses out of penalty two races in a row, one with Johnny Herbert as a steward(a brit), the second with Alex Wurz as a steward (A former McLaren tester, through many years)...

If you count out all possible bias connections there isn't many left in fact. I try to get through drivers who raced in 1990s or 2000s, here's my list of drivers who can be driver stewards.

Christijan Albers
Olivier Beretta
Pedro Chaves
Andrea Chiesa
Jean-Denis Deletraz
Tomas Enge
Ralph Firman
Gregor Foitek
Nicolas Kiesa
Jan Lammers
Gaston Mazzacane
Tiago Monteiro
Esteban Tuero
Eric van de Poele

and last but not least...

HWNSNBM!

Absolutely brilliant list from reject perspective.

Bleu wrote:

Myrvold wrote:Instead Hamilton misses out of penalty two races in a row, one with Johnny Herbert as a steward(a brit), the second with Alex Wurz as a steward (A former McLaren tester, through many years)...

If you count out all possible bias connections there isn't many left in fact. I try to get through drivers who raced in 1990s or 2000s, here's my list of drivers who can be driver stewards.

Christijan Albers
Olivier Beretta
Pedro Chaves
Andrea Chiesa
Jean-Denis Deletraz
Tomas Enge
Ralph Firman
Gregor Foitek
Nicolas Kiesa
Jan Lammers
Gaston Mazzacane
Tiago Monteiro
Esteban Tuero
Eric van de Poele

and last but not least...

HWNSNBM!

Absolutely brilliant list from reject perspective.

you can delete all the former minardi and jordan drivers from that list, because they can have special feelings for the employees of toro rosso and the force

except for HWNSNBM, who allways makes the right decisions.

also
*tomas enge drove a season for the mclaren 'junior team' in F3000
* jan lammers drove for jaguar in le mans, which can be marginally related to red bull nowadays
*eric van de poele was test driver of tyrrell in 1993, which can be marginally related to mercedes nowadays

coops wrote:

Myrvold wrote:Instead Hamilton misses out of penalty two races in a row, one with Johnny Herbert as a steward(a brit), the second with Alex Wurz as a steward (A former McLaren tester, through many years)...

You're always going to be able to see some pattern for a conspiracy with ex-drivers through associations with different makers, engines or nationality etc. Didnt Prost do one? And he raced for Maranello and Woking.

I may reget playing devil's advocate here
Prost was one of the stewards at Bahrein - and drew criticism there for failing to spot that Webber had overshot his starting position (and it was by quite a margin that he overshot as well, since all of the commentators could see it clearly from the commentary boxes).
Myrvold, with due respect, just because there are some links - some of which are rather tangential - doesn't prove that Wurz and Herbert were biased. After all, if Herbert is supposed to be biased because of his nationality, we could also accuse Wurz of being biased since he is Austrian, and Vettel drives for what is technically an Austrian team (Red Bull run under an Austrian racing licence) owned by an Austrian businessman (Mateschitz). If national bias was there, then surely he would have been inclined to penalise Hamilton?

Besides, Wurz is only one member of the stewarding panel - the others were Paul Gutjar, Enzo Spano and Wan Heping, according to the official publications from the FIA. http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1 ... ent-39.pdf and http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1 ... ent-40.pdf
Now, as far as I am aware, none of those stewards have a link with the UK or Mclaren - so one would assume that they have not had any experiences which would make them biased towards any particular party that was involved. In this instance, accusing the stewards of being biased towards Hamilton or Mclaren seems to be somewhat questionable to me.

Ultimately, there are those who might be unhappy about the overall performance of the stewards (including myself, since I feel that both Hamilton and Alonso should have had some sort of punishment for cutting inside of another car when entering the pit lane - both drivers put someone else at risk for no reason). However, they hade made their decision, and as much as we might complain about it, the FIA has accepted it and has effectively declared the case closed. I just wish that it could be the same case here, because all I can forsee is some rather pointlessly acrimonious bickering...

Bleu wrote:

Myrvold wrote:Instead Hamilton misses out of penalty two races in a row, one with Johnny Herbert as a steward(a brit), the second with Alex Wurz as a steward (A former McLaren tester, through many years)...

If you count out all possible bias connections there isn't many left in fact. I try to get through drivers who raced in 1990s or 2000s, here's my list of drivers who can be driver stewards.

Christijan Albers
Olivier Beretta
Pedro Chaves
Andrea Chiesa
Jean-Denis Deletraz
Tomas Enge
Ralph Firman
Gregor Foitek
Nicolas Kiesa
Jan Lammers
Gaston Mazzacane
Tiago Monteiro
Esteban Tuero
Eric van de Poele

and last but not least...

HWNSNBM!

Absolutely brilliant list from reject perspective.

Deletraz is the same nationality as Buemi...

tc3j3r wrote:Deletraz is the same nationality as Buemi...

Chiesa and Foitek too

that leaves Beretta and Chaves

This wrote:that leaves Beretta and Chaves

Chaves is done. He ran for Coloni, which was bought out by Giancarlo Fisichella... who is now the test driver for Ferrari.

This wrote:that leaves Beretta and Chaves

Beretta's from Monaco, he could have neighbors on the grid. HWNSNBM is the only logical choice. When you plug HWNSNBM into any investigation, the result is just.

Captain Hammer wrote:But the winner is Nico Hulkenberg. Touted as one of the sport's young stars, he suffered the ignomity of finishing behind a Lotus ...

Granted. But I'll nominate the Williams tactics instead. Here's the thought process:

Some Bright Spark at Williams wrote:We have a struggling rookie out there, in changing conditions, lacking confidence in his rubbish car. It's started raining. What should we do? I know: change him to slick tyres!

Fantastic. Also, the Red Bull tactics. Again, the thought process:

Some Bright Spark at Red Bull wrote:We've got the fastest car out there. We did a 1-2 in this race last year, in a car that was the base for this season's. We've had rain, and now the drivers are coming back for dry rubber. The track is drying, but still cold and very wet outside the racing line. It's forecast to rain again. What should we do? I know: put them on the harder tyres!

But my definite nomination goes to Felipe Massa. You know how Rob Smedley literally guides him around, almost like a NASCAR spotter? Imagine the conversation at the time of his second stop:

Not Rob Smedley/Not Massa wrote:- Felipe, watch out for Fernando in the pit lane entry at 3 o'clock!
- Notta worry, it is still twenty past two

And off went Alonso. Caught napping by your team mate in the pit lane entrance: priceless.

mario wrote:

coops wrote:

Myrvold wrote:I just wish that it could be the same case here, because all I can forsee is some rather pointlessly acrimonious bickering...

Without pointless bickering though, board traffic would decrease by 50%.

LionZoo wrote:

mario wrote:

coops wrote:

Without pointless bickering though, board traffic would decrease by 50%.

And with spam bots making up the other 50%, we wouldn't have a forum!