Grand Prix Rejects

As much as I would like to nominate the people sitting underneath (or near) Austrian television's commentary booth who kept playing extremely load Samaba rythms during the full course of the race making the commentary very unnerving to listen to: I can't bring myself to do it. Because in generaly I'm still extremely impressed with the enthusiasm of Brazilian race fans and their way of showing their passion for the sport.

So my vote also goes to Massa's pitcrew.

Not many nominations I'm afraid but here we go:

Vitaly Petrov - He had a pretty disappointing race to be frank, and was completely outshone by his benchmark Hulkenberg. Not only did he have a crash in free practice, he also had little pace over the race (despite a reasonable qualifying), and usually his pace is the only thing that prevents him from being labelled as a "crash kid". I've also noticed that he's actually behind Liuzzi in the points table as well for this season, so whilst he's got potential, you can see why Renault are having 2nd thoughts about resigning him.

Toro Rosso - They are their own team now, so there's no need to employ dangerous, only marginally talented drivers any more! Buemi was his usual self, panel bashing anyone who tried to overtake him. Alguersuari also forced Alonso into the wall when he came to lap him, and yet again he dropped out of the points in the later stages. I know the car is probably the worst on the grid bar the new teams, but their racecraft isn't exactly up to scratch and neither of them have made any kind of improvements on their previous seasons. I strongly suggest that the team brings in at least one experienced head next year to help develop the car and get a few points here and there (Heidfeld or Trulli maybe?).

The winner is - Force India - Terrible weekend all round, and no points. Their qualifying was downright awful, and Sutil seems to have really lost his touch in wet conditions (he can set fastest lap in free practice in a Spyker in the wet, so what's the problem with the Force India?). Come the race, their pace was a little better, but Sutil was out of the points and Liuzzi binned it, the only driver to do so all race. Liuzzi's put his seat in jeopardy again, and Sutil is probably not going to get the Williams drive he's after considering Hulkenberg's performance this weekend. What's more is that Williams are in the pounds seats for 6th position in the constructors now as well.

Bruno Senna.

In two races where Klien has been his team mate he's been outqualified by 1.2s and 0.7s. Klien is at best a journeyman driver with very limited experience of 2010 regulations and cars. That just isn't good enough.

Liuzzi - Only DNF, and as a result Webber's chance of winning the race disappeared.
Those idiots who pass for commentators - No, not Brundle and Legard, but the Aussie ones.
Mercedes pit crew - Who manages to put the wrong tyres on?

Rhys, you at school today? If not where the bloody hell are you?

On a different note what happened to the rule that lapped cars could unlap themselves under the safety car?

Wizzie wrote:On a different note what happened to the rule that lapped cars could unlap themselves under the safety car?

Brundle mentioned that during the safety car - apparently it was scrapped in favour of making the SC periods shorter.

Liuzzi just made a good bid for ROTY, as far as I'm concerned...

Wizzie wrote:Rhys, you at school today? If not where the bloody hell are you?

Did you not notice the massive coughing fits on Thursday and Friday? It just got worse, that's all.

noisebox wrote:Bruno Senna.

In two races where Klien has been his team mate he's been outqualified by 1.2s and 0.7s. Klien is at best a journeyman driver with very limited experience of 2010 regulations and cars. That just isn't good enough.

He spun, and had cold, semi-flatspotted tires when the track dried up, and Klien got a clean lap in the driest conditions. He was ahead before that. He also outpaced him in practice 2 and 3. I honestly think some are being to harsh on him, I think that Chandhok is the only driver who would be able to keep his motivation on a high through a whole season with HRT.

watka wrote:Not only did he have a crash in free practice, he also had little pace over the race (despite a reasonable qualifying), and usually his pace is the only thing that prevents him from being labelled as a "crash kid".

Petorv's practice accident was the result if a rear wing failure. His F-duct got stuck in the open position, apparently, whih negated all of his downforce into into of the most aero-reliant corners on the circuit. As for the race, he got railroaded by Alguersuari in the first corner, had to run wide to avoid a collision and then pretty much had to wait for a gap in the traffic.

On that note, I vote for Renault. As Legard pointed out, lately whatever promise and pace they have on Fridays has evaporated by Sunday.

Honorable Mentions:

Brazilian Criminals- Two robberies in one race weekend, one against Button and one against the Sauber pitcrew, that is quite embarrassing. Heck, Bernie had to assure us Brazil is on the calendar next year.

Ultra Reliable Cars- Do cars just not have earth shattering KABOOM!'s anymore?

Brazilian Drivers- Massa: 14th, Di Grassi: DNF, Barrichello: 16th, Senna 24th and beaten by Klien in Qualifying nuff said.

The Winner is:

Liuzzi- For showing us that no matter how well he can drive in one race, the next one is probably going to be the complete opposite. In fact, Force India is having a pretty crappy second half, with Sutil failing at Q1 and neither of them scoring points.

tristan1117 wrote:Ultra Reliable Cars- Do cars just not have earth shattering KABOOM!'s anymore?

Maybe we're going to get the mother of all KABOOM!s in Abu Dhabi in the shape of Alonso's engine. It will be very interesting to see how the race plays out of Alonso DNFs.

I couldn't follow the race too well as I was round my brother in law's house in the US, and it was kinda noisy, so I shall nominate:

1. Speed TV for the sheer amount of commercials, particularly in the second half. It was like the bad old days of early ITV (before they got the hang of it) but moreso.

2. The Toro Rosso drivers - not only the dullest driver pairing on the grid (and the two dullest drivers in the field), but seemingly the worst racecraft too. What's all this banging into people all the time about?

fjackdaw wrote:I couldn't follow the race too well as I was round my brother in law's house in the US, and it was kinda noisy, so I shall nominate:

1. Speed TV for the sheer amount of commercials, particularly in the second half. It was like the bad old days of early ITV (before they got the hang of it) but moreso.

2. The Toro Rosso drivers - not only the dullest driver pairing on the grid (and the two dullest drivers in the field), but seemingly the worst racecraft too. What's all this banging into people all the time about?

Toro Rosso are also the dullest team on the grid.

Having watched almost the whole race, with the exception of the dinner break, during which the safety car period happened, I must say I was seriously underwhelmed by the performance of Williams. They started from Pole and P6, then put their polesitter on a questionable strategy that had him fighting Kubica on the same questionable strategy whilst both the Mercedes and Button went past on a different strategy - and they messed up the pit stop of Rubinho. Under the 91-02 points system, they did not score despite finishing with 2 cars and one starting from pole. That's disappointing.

Looking at the rest of this thread I think it's fair to say Brazilians in general have made a good effort for RoTR.
Underwhelming drivers, attempted and successful robberies and those awful trophies. Barring Q3, probably one of the more boring Brazilian GPs.

Captain Hammer wrote:

tristan1117 wrote:Ultra Reliable Cars- Do cars just not have earth shattering KABOOM!'s anymore?

Maybe we're going to get the mother of all KABOOM!s in Abu Dhabi in the shape of Alonso's engine. It will be very interesting to see how the race plays out of Alonso DNFs.

*crosses fingers*

I'd have more respect for Alonso if he were in a position where he could easily win the title by more than eight points. I see him winning by a scant few points, and that just won't be acceptable in my view.

RAK wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

tristan1117 wrote:Ultra Reliable Cars- Do cars just not have earth shattering KABOOM!'s anymore?

Maybe we're going to get the mother of all KABOOM!s in Abu Dhabi in the shape of Alonso's engine. It will be very interesting to see how the race plays out of Alonso DNFs.

*crosses fingers*

I'd have more respect for Alonso if he were in a position where he could easily win the title by more than eight points. I see him winning by a scant few points, and that just won't be acceptable in my view.

If it weren't for the Hockenheim farce, Alonso would still be leading the championship by 1 point.

Yes, and then, all Webber would had to do, was to beat him. Now he need someone between... Not to mention that he would've been able to take it more easy in Korea.

RAK wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

tristan1117 wrote:Ultra Reliable Cars- Do cars just not have earth shattering KABOOM!'s anymore?

Maybe we're going to get the mother of all KABOOM!s in Abu Dhabi in the shape of Alonso's engine. It will be very interesting to see how the race plays out of Alonso DNFs.

*crosses fingers*

I'd have more respect for Alonso if he were in a position where he could easily win the title by more than eight points. I see him winning by a scant few points, and that just won't be acceptable in my view.

Well ,if his engine blows at Abu Dhabi, he won't be able to win by 6 points or more, now will he?

redbulljack14 wrote:If it weren't for the Hockenheim farce, Alonso would still be leading the championship by 1 point.

On paper yes, but it could have hypothetically been more, as Massa would have probably been driving better with the confidence of a win.

After few days thinking, I'm changing my vote to Force India. Slowest two of established teams in qualifying, mechanical failure (?) that caused Liuzzi crashing and then tactical blunder that cost Sutil 8th place. Without that last one they would still be ahead of Williams in WCC.

Didn't get a chance to post until now, but at the time, what stood out to me was the behaviour of the lapped cars after the safety car. Once they'd all been cleared,
the gaps at the front ended up the same (or worse) as before, taking any excitement out of the end of the race. And, didn't I see Massa unlap himself from Rosberg
at one point?

madmark1974 wrote:Didn't get a chance to post until now, but at the time, what stood out to me was the behaviour of the lapped cars after the safety car. Once they'd all been cleared,
the gaps at the front ended up the same (or worse) as before, taking any excitement out of the end of the race. And, didn't I see Massa unlap himself from Rosberg
at one point?

Massa wasn't the only one because I swear someone else followed him though aswell...

madmark1974 wrote:Didn't get a chance to post until now, but at the time, what stood out to me was the behaviour of the lapped cars after the safety car. Once they'd all been cleared,
the gaps at the front ended up the same (or worse) as before, taking any excitement out of the end of the race. And, didn't I see Massa unlap himself from Rosberg
at one point?

Yeah, they need a 2-queue system, lapped cars on the right, lead lap on the left (or whatever) and let the lapped cars go as soon as the Safety Car's lights go out, so maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of the way round the lap. Gets them out of the way for the restart without adding an extra lap to the Safety Car cycle (because you don't wait for them to make it all the way round to the back of the queue).

Jordan192 wrote:

madmark1974 wrote:Didn't get a chance to post until now, but at the time, what stood out to me was the behaviour of the lapped cars after the safety car. Once they'd all been cleared,
the gaps at the front ended up the same (or worse) as before, taking any excitement out of the end of the race. And, didn't I see Massa unlap himself from Rosberg
at one point?

Yeah, they need a 2-queue system, lapped cars on the right, lead lap on the left (or whatever) and let the lapped cars go as soon as the Safety Car's lights go out, so maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of the way round the lap. Gets them out of the way for the restart without adding an extra lap to the Safety Car cycle (because you don't wait for them to make it all the way round to the back of the queue).

Sounds like a good idea - it is a bit frustrating that they dropped the idea of letting lapped cars go past the safety car and reform at the back of the pack, as Vettel could comfortably bolt away from Webber before he could clear the backmarkers. In addition, Mclaren's idea of putting fresh tyres on was ruined by the poor track position they ended up with - by the time that they passed the lapped cars, wich took a few laps, they had lost the major part of their advantage and robbed them of even a faint chance of catching Alonso.
Of course, the other problem with letting lapped cars go round was the fact that you were letting them head towards an accident site at racing speed - which is why I think that your twin line option might work, although it might be a little difficult for the older and narrower tracks.

mario wrote:Sounds like a good idea - it is a bit frustrating that they dropped the idea of letting lapped cars go past the safety car and reform at the back of the pack, as Vettel could comfortably bolt away from Webber before he could clear the backmarkers. In addition, Mclaren's idea of putting fresh tyres on was ruined by the poor track position they ended up with - by the time that they passed the lapped cars, wich took a few laps, they had lost the major part of their advantage and robbed them of even a faint chance of catching Alonso.

That is exactly why i like the new rules somewhat more. It keeps things a little more fair. If someone has built up a gap & lapped a few cars why should he lose all that due to some clown sticking a Force India into the wall?

Personally i would have been hacked off to see Hamilton or Button getting a free pit stop (after knackering their tires) and going on to win the race simply due to fresh tires.

As it is the safety car hurts the leaders. forcing all the other cars to get out of the way so we can have an artifically close race is nonsense...

kowalski wrote: Personally i would have been hacked off to see Hamilton or Button getting a free pit stop (after knackering their tires) and going on to win the race simply due to fresh tires.

As it is the safety car hurts the leaders. forcing all the other cars to get out of the way so we can have an artifically close race is nonsense...

.. But there was nothing stopping Alonso and the Red Bulls coming in to get tyres either, so surely McLaren would have won the race on a strategic call? Let's face it, it was the only way they
were going to be able to win ...

I know Nascar isn't such a relevant comparison, but if there's a yellow flag, usually pretty much everyone comes in for fresh tyres, just so no-one behind has an advantage upon the restart.

kowalski wrote:

mario wrote:Sounds like a good idea - it is a bit frustrating that they dropped the idea of letting lapped cars go past the safety car and reform at the back of the pack, as Vettel could comfortably bolt away from Webber before he could clear the backmarkers. In addition, Mclaren's idea of putting fresh tyres on was ruined by the poor track position they ended up with - by the time that they passed the lapped cars, wich took a few laps, they had lost the major part of their advantage and robbed them of even a faint chance of catching Alonso.

That is exactly why i like the new rules somewhat more. It keeps things a little more fair. If someone has built up a gap & lapped a few cars why should he lose all that due to some clown sticking a Force India into the wall?

Personally i would have been hacked off to see Hamilton or Button getting a free pit stop (after knackering their tires) and going on to win the race simply due to fresh tires.

As it is the safety car hurts the leaders. forcing all the other cars to get out of the way so we can have an artifically close race is nonsense...

Unfairness and random chance is what makes racing exciting, though - otherwise the best driver on the day always wins. A safety car throws a spanner in the works, adds a bit of spice to proceedings, gives other drivers a fighting chance. Motor sport should be about drama and unpredictability, not making sure that everything plays out in the most natural and wrinkle-free way possible.

fjackdaw wrote:

kowalski wrote:

mario wrote:Sounds like a good idea - it is a bit frustrating that they dropped the idea of letting lapped cars go past the safety car and reform at the back of the pack, as Vettel could comfortably bolt away from Webber before he could clear the backmarkers. In addition, Mclaren's idea of putting fresh tyres on was ruined by the poor track position they ended up with - by the time that they passed the lapped cars, wich took a few laps, they had lost the major part of their advantage and robbed them of even a faint chance of catching Alonso.

That is exactly why i like the new rules somewhat more. It keeps things a little more fair. If someone has built up a gap & lapped a few cars why should he lose all that due to some clown sticking a Force India into the wall?

Personally i would have been hacked off to see Hamilton or Button getting a free pit stop (after knackering their tires) and going on to win the race simply due to fresh tires.

As it is the safety car hurts the leaders. forcing all the other cars to get out of the way so we can have an artifically close race is nonsense...

Unfairness and random chance is what makes racing exciting, though - otherwise the best driver on the day always wins. A safety car throws a spanner in the works, adds a bit of spice to proceedings, gives other drivers a fighting chance. Motor sport should be about drama and unpredictability, not making sure that everything plays out in the most natural and wrinkle-free way possible.

Yes, a bit of chance here and there is fine - but races / championships decided on safety cars is just crap isn't it? the way it is now still helps those behind catch up - i don't think they need any more help - otherwise it becomes a NASCAR everything-decided-on-the-last-lap-regardless-of-any-of-the-other-racing style joke.

Well Force India are my favourite team...but even i have to say its terrible the way theyve went from being a consistent points scorer (least with Sutil at the wheel) he after all has had 6 consistent races. Spain to Silverstone...Liuzzi has managed 2 -_- but the way theyve just seemed to have fallen back to dare i say it the Toro Rosso's is appauling they need updates big ones to get back to beat Williams in the championship because the way its going Williams are going to beat them.

Next - Toro Rosso...No pace and No Threat...

Also, Liuzzi ,for being the only retirement ,and not making this be the first full finish since when again?

Peter wrote:Also, Liuzzi ,for being the only retirement ,and not making this be the first full finish since when again?

Monza 2005

Kobayashi.

*Runs*