Grand Prix Rejects

They said in Polish Radio, only a couple of minuts ago, that Robert's hand was almost cut out in 2 places, so surgeon had to perform some kind of a replantation. This means almost for sure that the nerves of his hand were damaged, and as an orthopedic surgeon I can tell you that it'll take months for him to recover. If ever... Sad news for Poland...

Sky are reporting that he may be laid off for a year. It's very sad, this could have been his best year.

Surely Renault won't run a team of two inexperienced drivers. Not having spent so much to improve the car.

But their options seem pretty limited.

Should this be put in the Naff Reporting thread?

He's Alright, He's Injured, He was on his way to the rally not in the rally, then he WAS In the rally when he crashed, He's got internal bleeding, no he hasnt, he's got to have his arm removed....

Multimedia - Multi-crap-ia.

Ho Pin Tung given a superlicense for apparently no reason last year...I'm standing up.

In all seriousness though, it does sound like the road to recovery is going to be a long one for Kubica. I'm sure he will want to be back in the car as soon as possible but it sounds like he'll be driving with an impairment for a long time, or maybe even permanently (let's hope not). It's a great shame. It's obviously not unusual there to be lots of crashes at rallies, but this sounds like a bit of a freak incident.

Am I the only person who feels... indifferent about this? Don't know why, but for me it's a driver that is hurt, no life-threath so no big deal. Motorsport is dangerous.

Myrvold wrote:Am I the only person who feels... indifferent about this? Don't know why, but for me it's a driver that is hurt, no life-threath so no big deal. Motorsport is dangerous.

You are entitled to your own opinion but to see one of the most promising drivers potentially have their career ended due to a 10000s to 1 accident at best is a sad thing to me, especially as he was the leading light of Eastern European F1 talent. His loss could be compounded by the (albeit lesser) loss that F1 sees a setback in its attempts to draw in more nationalities and cultures as drivers and fans.

Heck, if Ludwig von Beethoven can write his 9th symphony, I'm pretty sure that Kubica can recover from this incident very well.

Myrvold wrote:Am I the only person who feels... indifferent about this? Don't know why, but for me it's a driver that is hurt, no life-threath so no big deal. Motorsport is dangerous.

Yep, you're the only person

If I were Renault I'd be on the phone to Virgin - swap Senna or GRRRRRJJJJJNNNNNN for Glock. He did good things for Virgin last year and could do a job for Renault too.

ElizabethSterling wrote:

Myrvold wrote:Am I the only person who feels... indifferent about this? Don't know why, but for me it's a driver that is hurt, no life-threath so no big deal. Motorsport is dangerous.

You are entitled to your own opinion but to see one of the most promising drivers potentially have their career ended due to a 10000s to 1 accident at best is a sad thing to me, especially as he was the leading light of Eastern European F1 talent. His loss could be compounded by the (albeit lesser) loss that F1 sees a setback in its attempts to draw in more nationalities and cultures as drivers and fans.

Of course. For him it's sad. For the team it's sad. For his fans it's sad. For F1 in eastern europe,- I guess it's sad. I have no problems at all seeing that. But still, I've always said that there need to be a element of danger in motorsport. This proves that it is.

I mean, I can't be sad, and care about every single driver that get's hurt and might get his/hers career destroyed, I would be sad all the time. I have no problems seing that people find it sad. But for me, he is just another racing driver that got hurt.

Yes, I do feel a bit different if I am a fan of the driver, or if it is life-threathning. I don't want people to die, and I want "my" drivers to win. Execpt that, motorsport is dangerous, it has been, always will be. That's why I love watching it. That's why I love driving races.

Ross Prawn wrote:

Myrvold wrote:Am I the only person who feels... indifferent about this? Don't know why, but for me it's a driver that is hurt, no life-threath so no big deal. Motorsport is dangerous.

Yep, you're the only person

Don't you eyeroll me!

Okay, perhaps one for the unpopular opinions thread but I agree that motorsport's danger is part of the show completely and find that drivers use the safety excuse these days to change corners they feel might make them look foolish rather than injure them. Still, I feel for the guy.

This is the reaason for the damage. Barrier and pole penetrated the car badly. 10000s to 1 accident it seems.

ElizabethSterling wrote:Okay, perhaps one for the unpopular opinions thread but I agree that motorsport's danger is part of the show

Ok, but a barrier should not collapse like that. You have to look for improvements after every incedent, otherwise we'd still be in the dark ages safety wise.

Holy crap, that looks absolutely horrendous. Despite the injuries Kubica suffered, he can consider himself lucky because from the looks of that he could have easily ended up like Francois Cevert.

ElizabethSterling wrote:

Myrvold wrote:Am I the only person who feels... indifferent about this? Don't know why, but for me it's a driver that is hurt, no life-threath so no big deal. Motorsport is dangerous.

You are entitled to your own opinion but to see one of the most promising drivers potentially have their career ended due to a 10000s to 1 accident at best is a sad thing to me, especially as he was the leading light of Eastern European F1 talent. His loss could be compounded by the (albeit lesser) loss that F1 sees a setback in its attempts to draw in more nationalities and cultures as drivers and fans.

10.000 to 1 probability? There's nothing particulalry freak with his crash, I think.

Catching the blade-edge of a barrier and being skewered by the pole on the driver's side isn't at least 10,000 to 1? You must watch a really bloody sport...

This is just as bad as what happened to Massa, why question it to be any less horrific?

noisebox wrote:If I were Renault I'd be on the phone to Virgin - swap Senna or GRRRRRJJJJJNNNNNN for Glock. He did good things for Virgin last year and could do a job for Renault too.

Bingo, someone give this man a beer. Glock is deserving of a seat of a top team, stop ignoring him team principals.

ElizabethSterling wrote:Catching the blade-edge of a barrier and being skewered by the pole on the driver's side isn't at least 10,000 to 1? You must watch a really bloody sport...

If you crash against a guardrail it's not uncommon to happen. Take a look at Jochen Rindt's fatal accident: he crashed against a guardrail and the poles of it destroyed the front end of the car.

noisebox wrote:

ElizabethSterling wrote:Okay, perhaps one for the unpopular opinions thread but I agree that motorsport's danger is part of the show

Ok, but a barrier should not collapse like that. You have to look for improvements after every incedent, otherwise we'd still be in the dark ages safety wise.

Slight clue, Its Italy.

Okay, I don't want to derail the topic so I'll just say that having the cockpit penetrated by two seperate large objects on the driver's side isn't something I've seen much at all and I sincerely doubt it happens more than 1 in 10,000 times.

A bit of a shock to come home to this news, but at least he's alive and in no danger. Fingers crossed he'll be tip-top again before too long.

Well, I didn't want to post until the reports from the medical staff came in and now that they're saying that he could be out for the year. I really hope Bob Kubica gets well soon and makes a speedy Niki Lauda-like recovery.

robert is still in the car in that picture. would you mind reducing it to just a link? i don't want to see it any more times than is necessary

Very sad that he was injured but I am glad he will be okay.
But from what I read, he could be out the whole season.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89315

Looks as though Senna will drive in the seat afterall and score some points.

That's a point, if the Renault is a good one and Senna does take the seat for more than one or two races this could against all odds keep him out of F1rejects' driver index.

Everyone of you is saying "Renault should do this or do that..."... but Renault don´t have the power anymore on that team. I bet everyone at Group Lotus is thinking about the great publicity opportunity that has arisen to bring the Senna surname driving an all black & gold car which has Lotus written all over it with a Renault engine?? Think about it, it´s too good to let it pass.

I was away for the weekend and it is one real sad piece of news, being Kubica one of my favorite drivers. I sincerily hope he gets better and the 'losing his hand' part doesn't happen.

We are saying Renault because we are speaking of the team that have the name Renault...

Sad for Kubica, may HWNSNBM be with him.

Aerond wrote:Everyone of you is saying "Renault should do this or do that..."... but Renault don´t have the power anymore on that team. I bet everyone at Group Lotus is thinking about the great publicity opportunity that has arisen to bring the Senna surname driving an all black & gold car which has Lotus written all over it with a Renault engine?? Think about it, it´s too good to let it pass.

...and the implication is that Senna will be the team's #1 driver instead of Petrov? If that's the case that would be a stupid move, because Petrov already is familiar with the team and the engineers.

First off, I should say that I wish Kubica a speedy recovery and I hope to see him back in F1 soon.

Hiring Senna would be in my opinion, a rather dumb move considering there are 3, possibly 4 drivers without seats that have much more experience. Heidfeld and De La Rosa would be great choices because they are reliable (albeit boring) drivers. Liuzzi might work if he doesn't bin in/dawdle around in the back like he did last year. The fourth I am thinking of is Sakon Yamamoto; here's why I say that (and I am saying this with a straight face):
- Drove in F1 in 2006 and 2007 prior to 2010
- All the cars he drove were utter crap; who knows, he might be a really good driver and is just not performing up to potential.
- Again, a safe option; yeah, he's done some silly moves, but I can't remember if he binned the car last year because of a dumb mistake (and if so, please tell me because I can't remember).

The team needs someone with concrete race experience, and by that I mean in F1, in the middle of the pack, for more than one year.

Dan B wrote:The fourth I am thinking of is Sakon Yamamoto; here's why I say that (and I am saying this with a straight face):
- Drove in F1 in 2006 and 2007 prior to 2010
- All the cars he drove were utter crap; who knows, he might be a really good driver and is just not performing up to potential.
- Again, a safe option; yeah, he's done some silly moves, but I can't remember if he binned the car last year because of a dumb mistake (and if so, please tell me because I can't remember).

And to be honest he was far more impressive in the Hispania last year than Senna ever was (He held both Lotuses at bay for half the race at Japan from memory and he's been close to Senna's pace and even beaten him in a few races on the fastest lap charts)

http://supersport.com/motorsport/formula1/news/110207/Kubica_could_be_out_for_a_year

Quote from the lead surgeon who operated on him:

Lead surgeon Igor Rossello, a hand specialist, told Sky Italia that it would take "about a year" for Kubica to recover the functionality in his badly damaged right hand.

"I don't want to be too optimistic," Rossello said. "But we expect a good outcome."

The doctor said he expected the driver to recover "enough functionality for him to resume his activity."

I know, every object is dangerous when you hit it, but italian guardrails are really horrible, and awfullly placed most of the time

Aerond wrote:Everyone of you is saying "Renault should do this or do that..."... but Renault don´t have the power anymore on that team. I bet everyone at Group Lotus is thinking about the great publicity opportunity that has arisen to bring the Senna surname driving an all black & gold car which has Lotus written all over it with a Renault engine?? Think about it, it´s too good to let it pass.

Not that Group Lotus are the team owners either

To quote Robert himself, "I think Lotus is our sponsor. At least from what I know it is a sponsor. So I could also say it is my dream to drive for Total."

Whilst this is of course, terrible news, I wonder what implications it may have in the future driver's market. How long is left to run on his contract?

I assume if (hopefully when) he returns, if it is after an entire year on the sidelines, he will still be a Renault driver and of course they will want him back in the car, but
as far as I am aware, Webber's contract runs out this year, and maybe Massa's too (?), might other teams sense an opportunity to pounce?

Okay, I think Renault have a big problem here aside from the obvious. I think Bruno and Roman were the two main reserves so they could menace Petrov, a sort of 'screw up and we'll take your seat' thing. Now Robert's probably out of the picture for the whole year I think they'll be trying to find any excuse to get someone else.

ElizabethSterling wrote:Okay, I think Renault have a big problem here aside from the obvious. I think Bruno and Roman were the two main reserves so they could menace Petrov, a sort of 'screw up and we'll take your seat' thing. Now Robert's probably out of the picture for the whole year I think they'll be trying to find any excuse to get someone else.

I agree with this. But if we´re talking about lack of experience, they won´t hire Hulkenberg, although the guy is fast. So it would probably be Heidfeld or Liuzzi. Somebody talked about buying out Glock´s contract, but Virgin needs that driver and they won´t release him. I don´t think De la Rosa is ever going to be considered for the job. Another thing Renault could do is either;

- Get help from experienced driver for tests and Fridays, then try Senna at races and, if it doesn´t work, get the experienced driver in.
- Try an experienced driver against Senna before Bahrain tests and then decide.

Phoenix wrote:

ElizabethSterling wrote:Catching the blade-edge of a barrier and being skewered by the pole on the driver's side isn't at least 10,000 to 1? You must watch a really bloody sport...

If you crash against a guardrail it's not uncommon to happen. Take a look at Jochen Rindt's fatal accident: he crashed against a guardrail and the poles of it destroyed the front end of the car.

As I recall it, in the Rindt crash the (badly) installed support to the barrier gave way and the front of the car passed between two layers of Armco, which then closed like jaws when the car rebounded, slicing off the front of the car and grabbing hold of Rindt's legs, because he refused to wear crotch straps he was pulled forward in the car and the lap belt cut his throat. The thought of it still makes my blood run cold...

The trouble is that the Kubica accident was on a public road (I presume) and not on a circuit where one can impose higher standards. Without wishing to cause offence, standards of public infrastructure maintenance are not always what they should be, certainly in Southern Europe. So I doubt that (realistically) there is very much that can be done in terms of improved barrier maintenance on the public highway in the short to medium term.

However, we must always see what we can learn from accidents of this sort - I think that one needs to look at bulkhead strength in rally (and touring) cars - there is a lot of quest for lightness and one wonders if, for all the strength around rollcage support points, that the metal thickness in this area is up to road car standards.