Ridiculous Excuses

Post by **Ataxia** » 26 Feb 2012, 15:28

Here's the press conference 'fight' between Hakkinen and Irvine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtlNxwu43g8

I miss that guy...there's nobody these days that just messes about like ol' Swerve. If only I'd become a racing driver...

Post by **mario** » 26 Feb 2012, 21:33

ibsey wrote:
mario wrote:Mind you, it is also emblematic of the way that Gilles could throw away good chances, such as throwing away 2nd place in Monaco in 1979 because he was too aggressive over the bumps and broke his transmission (whereas Scheckter, noticing where Gilles was riding the bumps and knowing how fragile Ferrari's transmission was, deliberately avoided hitting those same bumps).

True. However IIRC, that point you mentioned was exactly why Enzo Ferrari loved Gilles so much. Because Enzo felt that if he could build Ferrari engines / gearboxes / etc, strong enough to withstand the punishment of Gilles's untamed driving. Then those same Ferrari parts could withstand anything. Enzo also felt the public would realise this, what with F1 being a promotion tool for selling their Road cars.

Also at Monaco 1979, Scheckter undoubtably benefited from not only significantly more F1 experience than GV, who was only still in his 2nd full season. But also the talent of Ferrari's elder-statesman chief mechanic, Antonio Bellantani. So perhaps because of this Jody, was better informed than GV on things like how fragile the gearbox was in Monaco etc & could thus drive accordingly. It is worth noting, perhaps because of the above, Scheckter had not one mechanical failure throughout 1979, whereas GV had sereveral, arguably costing him the title.

It is very much part of the identity of Gilles, and very much why Enzo Ferrari compared him to Nuvolari - that attitude of pushing the car to the limits, and often far beyond, not just what people thought capable of but beyond what they could sometimes even conceive of, hence why Laffite reportedly said "I know that no human being can do a miracle. Nobody commands magical properties, but Gilles made you wonder. He was that quick."
The results were certainly dramatic either way, whether he succeeded or failed, and I think that it might be fair to say that Gilles drove more with his heart than his head.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 27 Feb 2012, 00:00

mario wrote:The results were certainly dramatic either way, whether he succeeded or failed, and I think that it might be fair to say that Gilles drove more with his heart than his head.

Oh absoultely. As stated in my previous post, I agree with you. As is usually the case with your very insightful posts Mario.

I was merely just trying to point out, perhaps there might have been other factors to consider. Which also contributed to Gilles poor reliability record in 1979, especially in comparison to his teammate, Jody lack of mechincal failures.

In addition to what I've mentioned above, factors such as in 1979 Jody was considered to be Ferrari's No.1 driver. Therefore surely it would be reasonable to assume that Jody would get first call on any new, better specification, or just more reliable Ferrari engines / gearboxes etc throughout the course of the season.

Obviously I acknowledge, all things being equal, Gilles would often push his car further than anyone else. Of that there can be no doubt.

In fact I've often wondered, if Gilles have lived beyond Zolder 1982, how he would have coped with having to 'reign' in his driving style in the years thereafter. Particularly in the fuel saving turbo era of F1. Whislt also remembering that age whislt it may supposedly bring wisdom. It tends to errode most, if not all drivers natural speed. Which was of course, another of Gilles' identity as driver (as you correctly alluded to).

Therefore could Gilles, in his latter years, have learnt to drive with his head more. In order to overcome any potenial loss in his natural speed?

In my opinion, although he was good enough to have been able to adapted to more of a 'tactical' driving style in his latter years (for the reasons mentioned in my previous post). Thus driving with his head, on a much more frequent basis. I believe Gilles would have done so through gritted teeth. Perhaps for a couple of years or so after.

Then eventually he may have got bored with it & quit F1 for something else. Irrespective of how much success he may / may not have achieved. Since Gilles pleasure appeared to stem simply from driving flat-out. Which i'm not sure the mid 80's fuel regulations would have always allowed him to do. So I doubt driving tactially, or with his head to win championships could have given him as much pleasure.

In someways a bit simliar to Keke Rosberg who IIRC said one of the reasons for his retirement from F1 in 1986 was "because he got bored with the fuel regulation" .

Of course, unfornately we can only speculate about what Gilles would have done :cry:

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 27 Feb 2012, 00:34

mario wrote:Mind you, it is also emblematic of the way that Gilles could throw away good chances, such as throwing away 2nd place in Monaco in 1979 because he was too aggressive over the bumps and broke his transmission (whereas Scheckter, noticing where Gilles was riding the bumps and knowing how fragile Ferrari's transmission was, deliberately avoided hitting those same bumps).

Having just rewatched the 1979 Monaco GP, on utube (not sure if i'm allowed to post the link for it here or not?).

However, as far as I can see, Gilles is always behind Jody all throughout that race. Until Gilles retires. In fact for most of it, Gilles is not even within sight of Jody.

Therefore one has to question the the above Scheckter story?

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 01 Mar 2012, 23:35

I found this gem of an excuse on the main website, regarding Andrea De Cesaris at Monaco in 1988...

'But this was after he had written off another car in practice when he crashed into Gerhard Berger's spinning Ferrari inside the tunnel. The Italian promised to cover the repair bills himself, but claimed that there had been no yellow flags. When video replays showed that there clearly had been, a sheepish Andrea had to change his story, but stewards fined him US$5,000 for his less-then-honest attitude.'

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 06 Mar 2012, 11:13

Couple more to add here.

Firstly when Brabham introduced their 'fan' car at in 1978, naturally all the other teams in the pitlane were curious as to what the massive fan at the back of the car was for. So in an attempt to throw them off the scent, Brabham said the fan was for "cooling" on their Alfa flat 12 engine.

Judging by the amout of interest even after Brabham's 'explaination' I don't think too many people in the pitlane brought that excuse.

Simliarly I also recall reading ages ago a story that Lotus did a simliar thing to throw people of the scent of their Lotus 79 'wing' car. IIRC at races like the British GP in 1978, Lotus would purposely attempt to cover up the gearbox, when the car was in the pitlane. In an attempt to make their rival teams, think they were getting their superior advantage from that, instead of the underfloor aero.

Also when Andrea Montermini failed to qualify for the 1996 European GP in his Forti, because of the 107% rule. Naturally it wasn't his fault of course. As the main site article on Forti says...

Montermini blamed Damon Hill's extremely fast pole time for dragging down the 107% mark for missing out.

tzerof1 · Post by **tzerof1** » 09 Mar 2012, 23:20

ibsey wrote: Simliarly I found the excuses Barrichello's made on Top Gear about how he didn't really know he was the no.2 at Ferrari until Austria 2002 etc, very weak indeed. I mean ever since he joined Ferrari in 2000 they made him wear a red cap with a big no. 2 on it. It seemed Ferrari wanted to remind him of his no.2 position, in case he ever forgot.

Every time I saw him with that hat I laughed and thought that same exact thought too. :lol:

tzerof1 · Post by **tzerof1** » 09 Mar 2012, 23:30

Another lame excuse from Rubens Barrichello, at 2005 Brazilian GP: blaming his poor qualifying position that resulted in a poor race on his mechanics not correctly pressurising his tyres...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 10 Mar 2012, 00:57

tzerof1 wrote:Another lame excuse from Rubens Barrichello, at 2005 Brazilian GP: blaming his poor qualifying position that resulted in a poor race on his mechanics not correctly pressurising his tyres...

It wasn't really that bad though, he was only a couple tenths off Schumacher in qualifying and 30 seconds down the road at race end, with Fisichella's Renault in between them. I don't really see the need for an excuse there. It wasn't a great race but it wasn't terrible either.

tzerof1 · Post by **tzerof1** » 10 Mar 2012, 01:28

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:It wasn't really that bad though, he was only a couple tenths off Schumacher in qualifying and 30 seconds down the road at race end, with Fisichella's Renault in between them. I don't really see the need for an excuse there. It wasn't a great race but it wasn't terrible either.

Very true. And if it was any other GP, then he definitely wouldn't need an excuse. But, taking into account the (possibly unrealistic) expectations of the Brazilian fans, being honest and saying "I wasn't fast enough" or some other statement that didn't involve shifting the blame elsewhere, in answer to why he didn't meet those expectations, was something that was never going to happen. Thus, we get another of the endless litany of excuses.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 10 Mar 2012, 06:32

Patrese in the immediate aftermath of his horrfic Estoril 1992 crash, claimed "that a car had cut him up". Furthermore Patrese stated he wasn't sure which car it was, even thought it was obviously Berger's car he was refering to.

Normally I wouldn't mention that 'excuse' here, since he must have been understandably shaken & confused in the immediate aftermath of that horrific incident. However in the BBC commentary, James Hunt uses that poor 'excuse' to launch a rant against Patrese; saying things like..."well if he says that he wasn't sure who cut him up, then perhaps it is time for Patrese to consider leaving F1 in the interests of his own safety" etc.

Later on, obviouisly after someone at the BBC had a 'quiet' word with Hunt. He later apologies for his attack on Patrese, saying that it was understandable that Patrese might have been confused after his accident. However for me, that seemed to sum up Hunt's dislike of Patrese even still in 1992 (14 years after Ronnie Peterson's tragic accident in 1978).

This also makes me wonder whether Hunt was keen on Italians in general. Especially after how he was treated in the Italian GP in 1976. When he & the Mclaren team were accused of cheating via the fuel samples. Then in the race he crashed out early on & the Italian public were throwing stones & bottles at him during his walk back to the pits for daring to take the championship away from Lauda & Ferrari.

I say this, mainly because if you listen to Hunt's 1983 Monaco GP commentary, he talks about how their are lots of Italians in the crowd, how they kept showing Keke Rosberg the 'bird' during practice. To which Keke just ignored them. But Hunt then when on to say how the Italian public didn't really have much of a clue about F1 racing etc. Again, the BBC heads probably had a quiet 'word' with Hunt, for how political incorrect that comment was. So pretty soon afterwards, Hunt tried to dig himself out of that hole by saying how it wasn't really the Italian public's fault, since the Italian media brainwashed them.

I just wanted to share this a interesting observation really.

tzerof1 · Post by **tzerof1** » 10 Mar 2012, 06:43

ibsey wrote:I just wanted to share this a interesting observation really.

Quite a good observation it is. Also I'm sure someone at the BBC had a 'quiet' word with James after dismissing Rene Arnoux's excuse for his poor performance in 1989 as "Bullshit", on air for the 1989 Monaco GP. I daresay James did have a bit of a propensity to say things that would get him in trouble :lol:

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 10 Mar 2012, 07:06

tzerof1 wrote:I daresay James did have a bit of a propensity to say things that would get him in trouble

Indeed. The booze & 'wacky baccy' he sometimes used to consume during his commentaries, no doubt help with him speak his mind.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 10 Mar 2012, 07:08

tzerof1 wrote:
ibsey wrote:I just wanted to share this a interesting observation really.

Quite a good observation it is. Also I'm sure someone at the BBC had a 'quiet' word with James after dismissing Rene Arnoux's excuse for his poor performance in 1989 as "Bullshit", on air for the 1989 Monaco GP. I daresay James did have a bit of a propensity to say things that would get him in trouble

I'ld imagine that nobody ever explained to James Hunt the concept of Political Correctness. :lol:

tzerof1 · Post by **tzerof1** » 10 Mar 2012, 07:12

ibsey wrote:Indeed. The booze & 'wacky baccy' he sometimes used to consume during his commentaries, no doubt help with him speak his mind.

Also those wild parties he used to go to back in his Hesketh days were probably taking their toll too :lol:

tzerof1 · Post by **tzerof1** » 10 Mar 2012, 07:16

Wizzie wrote:I'ld imagine that nobody ever explained to James Hunt the concept of Political Correctness.

Wonder what he'd say if he were asked to define "political correctness"...I get the feeling that his reply would probably be just as politically incorrect as everything else he said. :lol:

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 10 Mar 2012, 07:25

Wizzie wrote:I'ld imagine that nobody ever explained to James Hunt the concept of Political Correctness.

IIRC according to Murray Walker's autobiograph, Believe it not, in their early years together Murray did once come close to teaching Hunt some 'political correctness of his own'. Through the universally understood language of a 'knuckle sandwich', but was persuaded not to by the BBC producer.

Also, in that same book, IIRC their was an amusing story about how the Australian head of TV programming also once tried. However, given they were both forceful characters, this predictably ended up in a massive shouting match between the two.

Post by **mario** » 10 Mar 2012, 14:41

ibsey wrote:Couple more to add here.

Firstly when Brabham introduced their 'fan' car at in 1978, naturally all the other teams in the pitlane were curious as to what the massive fan at the back of the car was for. So in an attempt to throw them off the scent, Brabham said the fan was for "cooling" on their Alfa flat 12 engine.

Judging by the amout of interest even after Brabham's 'explaination' I don't think too many people in the pitlane brought that excuse.

Simliarly I also recall reading ages ago a story that Lotus did a simliar thing to throw people of the scent of their Lotus 79 'wing' car. IIRC at races like the British GP in 1978, Lotus would purposely attempt to cover up the gearbox, when the car was in the pitlane. In an attempt to make their rival teams, think they were getting their superior advantage from that, instead of the underfloor aero.

Also when Andrea Montermini failed to qualify for the 1996 European GP in his Forti, because of the 107% rule. Naturally it wasn't his fault of course. As the main site article on Forti says...

Montermini blamed Damon Hill's extremely fast pole time for dragging down the 107% mark for missing out.

I am reasonably sure that Lotus had already used similar diversionary tactics on the Lotus 78, where one of the various reasons they gave for the strong performance of the 78 was that they were using a new type of transmission. It's a bit like Dan Gurney realising that the gurney flap would be best concealed in plain sight - by not trying to disguise the part, it took his rivals quite a long period of time before they realised what he was doing.

ibsey wrote:
Wizzie wrote:I'ld imagine that nobody ever explained to James Hunt the concept of Political Correctness.

IIRC according to Murray Walker's autobiograph, Believe it not, in their early years together Murray did once come close to teaching Hunt some 'political correctness of his own'. Through the universally understood language of a 'knuckle sandwich', but was persuaded not to by the BBC producer.

Also, in that same book, IIRC their was an amusing story about how the Australian head of TV programming also once tried. However, given they were both forceful characters, this predictably ended up in a massive shouting match between the two.

I believe that there was also a time when Murray and Hunt were having to share a microphone and Murray had been talking for a reasonable length of time. He was so engrossed and determined to continue talking that Hunt, desperate to make a comment, grabbed Murray by his shirt collar; Murray's response was to hold onto the microphone with one hand and continue talking whilst preparing to punch Hunt with the other. Against that background, I can certainly believe that Murray might have wanted to try "beating some sense" into Hunt...

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 11 Mar 2012, 16:14

mario wrote:I am reasonably sure that Lotus had already used similar diversionary tactics on the Lotus 78, where one of the various reasons they gave for the strong performance of the 78 was that they were using a new type of transmission.

TBH, the article that I read (which was a good few years ago now) may have been talking about the Lotus 78 rather than the Lotus 79.

mario wrote:I believe that there was also a time when Murray and Hunt were having to share a microphone and Murray had been talking for a reasonable length of time. He was so engrossed and determined to continue talking that Hunt, desperate to make a comment, grabbed Murray by his shirt collar; Murray's response was to hold onto the microphone with one hand and continue talking whilst preparing to punch Hunt with the other. Against that background, I can certainly believe that Murray might have wanted to try "beating some sense" into Hunt...

In order to save any confusion, I'd better mention that the story you told above, was the first story I was orginally refering too.

Few more rejectful excuses to post;

JPM injured his shoulder early in 2005, missing a few early races for his new team, which couldn't have endeared him to Ron. Anyway, I believe JPM's offical "excuse" for the injury was he did it while playing Tennis. IIRC the general feeling in the paddock was that this was a blantant lie.

I believe there was a simliar situation surrounding Michele Albereto during practice for the 1986 Italian GP. Michele missed Friday, because he had injured his shoulder. However less clear was how the injury had occured, something about either a motorbike accident or hurting himself in the shower? However Clive James' comments on the matter in the 1986 FIA season review is comedy gold.

Even though these next couple 'excuses' are true ones. So they did actually affect the drivers in question. Nevertheless IMO they seem to be pretty ridiculous situations for a professional F1 team / driver to find themselves in. So I think they deserve a mention here anyway.

Firstly JB's excuse that the helmet was working it's way lose during the actual race at Germany 2004 (IIRC). Unless JB didn't do up his helmet strap properly, then you can't really blame him for that one. Perhaps we can however blame the helmet makers or whoever prepared the helmet?

Also in early 1996, Gerhard Berger found whenever he drove his Benetton, he was losing BHP in comparison to his teammate Jean Alesi. Which accounted for some of Gerhard's poor early performances that year. The excuse given was that Gerhard was simply too tall for his cockpit & his head disrupted the airflow going into the airbox above his head. Obviously Gerhard is a particularly tall chap. But given he had simliar problems of not fitting into his car at Mclaren in 1990. Also given that Mansell & Mclaren also had simliar problems only one year earlier. Perhaps it could have been better ancitipated?

midgrid · Post by **midgrid** » 13 Mar 2012, 23:11

ibsey wrote:I believe there was a simliar situation surrounding Michele Albereto during practice for the 1986 Italian GP. Michele missed Friday, because he had injured his shoulder. However less clear was how the injury had occured, something about either a motorbike accident or hurting himself in the shower? However Clive James' comments on the matter in the 1986 FIA season review is comedy gold.

On a similar note, Maurício Gugelmin injured his foot on a broken pane of glass in his hotel shower before the 1991 Italian Grand Prix. He required three stitches in the sole of his right foot (which he used to accelerate and brake with), and his discomfort was increased when his clutch failed mid-race! He still finished, albeit four laps down.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 19 Mar 2012, 14:07

Couple more to add.

IIRC JV's intial excuse for not driving for BAR at Suzuka 2003 was because he appartently he "didn't feel well". Which everyone knew at the time was just BS.

JPM crashed with Monterio when he was lapping him at Turkey 2005 in an incident very simliar to JPM & Verstappen at Brazil 2001. JPM blamed Monterio for the crash saying things like..."those guys never look!". Even though the incident was obviously JPM's fault.

As Monterio said; JPM moved right in front of him in the braking zone & how it was always discussed in drivers briefings not to do that. Which the video evidence also seems to support.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 28 Mar 2012, 13:20

midgrid wrote:
ibsey wrote:I believe there was a simliar situation surrounding Michele Albereto during practice for the 1986 Italian GP. Michele missed Friday, because he had injured his shoulder. However less clear was how the injury had occured, something about either a motorbike accident or hurting himself in the shower? However Clive James' comments on the matter in the 1986 FIA season review is comedy gold.

On a similar note, Maurício Gugelmin injured his foot on a broken pane of glass in his hotel shower before the 1991 Italian Grand Prix. He required three stitches in the sole of his right foot (which he used to accelerate and brake with), and his discomfort was increased when his clutch failed mid-race! He still finished, albeit four laps down.

Thanks for that story Midgrid. I do love these kind of F1 stories especially when they concern drivers towards the back of the grid. An injured foot certainly is not what one needs around Monza, the heaviest braking track in F1.

Another one to add.

Ferrari's excuse in Fuji 2007, about not getting the email from the FIA which stipulated every team must start on exterme wet tyres (whereas Ferrari started on inters). Funnily enough, every other team appear to get that FIA email & therefore started on extreme wet tyres. Furthermore surely Ferrari must have known the rule beforehand (i.e. when the SC is out for extereme wet conditions, teams must ensure they are on extereme wet tyres).

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 02 Apr 2012, 10:23

ibsey wrote:IIRC JV's intial excuse for not driving for BAR at Suzuka 2003 was because he appartently he "didn't feel well". Which everyone knew at the time was just BS.

.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, I think history may have repeated itself with JV's other sacking at BMW in 2006. I vaguely remember prior to Hungary 2006 BMW initally came up with a pretty rejectful excuse. Something like "JV wasn't feeling well" hence the reason Kubica was stepping in for him for that particular race. When everyone in the F1 paddock knew that was a lie & in fact the JV & BMW relationship was at crisis point. IIRC on the monday after the Hungarian race, BMW actually confirmed JV was sacked for good & Kubica was his replacement.

On a simliar note there is of course the famous example of Ferrari letting Rene Arnoux go after only one race in 1985. IIRC the offical reason was apparently because "Rene needed a break". I'd say he did. Snorting some prime Colombian nose candy whilst banging the Old Man's grand daughter can really take it out of a man.

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] · Post by **Sunshine_Baby_[IT]** » 02 Apr 2012, 10:49

ibsey wrote:Unless I'm very much mistaken, I think history may have repeated itself with JV's other sacking at BMW in 2006. I vaguely remember prior to Hungary 2006 BMW initally came up with a pretty rejectful excuse. Something like "JV wasn't feeling well" hence the reason Kubica was stepping in for him for that particular race.

I remember he had a crash in the previous race and BMW (just a week before, I think) said that he wasn't feeling well because of that crash.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 02 Apr 2012, 10:55

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] wrote:
ibsey wrote:Unless I'm very much mistaken, I think history may have repeated itself with JV's other sacking at BMW in 2006. I vaguely remember prior to Hungary 2006 BMW initally came up with a pretty rejectful excuse. Something like "JV wasn't feeling well" hence the reason Kubica was stepping in for him for that particular race.

I remember he had a crash in the previous race and BMW (just a week before, I think) said that he wasn't feeling well because of that crash.

Mind you, accidents at turn 1 at Hockenheim are usually pretty hefty shunts and his was no exception so he did have a point

tzerof1 · Post by **tzerof1** » 03 Apr 2012, 00:00

Wizzie wrote:
Sunshine_Baby_[IT] wrote:
ibsey wrote:Unless I'm very much mistaken, I think history may have repeated itself with JV's other sacking at BMW in 2006. I vaguely remember prior to Hungary 2006 BMW initally came up with a pretty rejectful excuse. Something like "JV wasn't feeling well" hence the reason Kubica was stepping in for him for that particular race.

I remember he had a crash in the previous race and BMW (just a week before, I think) said that he wasn't feeling well because of that crash.

Mind you, accidents at turn 1 at Hockenheim are usually pretty hefty shunts and his was no exception so he did have a point

Turn 1 at Hockenheim is indeed a bad place to go off. But Villeneuve's shunt was at the last turn and thus showed that isn't a good place either. Didn't Montoya have an accident there in qualifying once upon a time as well?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 03 Apr 2012, 01:02

tzerof1 wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
Sunshine_Baby_[IT] wrote:I remember he had a crash in the previous race and BMW (just a week before, I think) said that he wasn't feeling well because of that crash.

Mind you, accidents at turn 1 at Hockenheim are usually pretty hefty shunts and his was no exception so he did have a point

Turn 1 at Hockenheim is indeed a bad place to go off. But Villeneuve's shunt was at the last turn and thus showed that isn't a good place either. Didn't Montoya have an accident there in qualifying once upon a time as well?

My word, you're right too. Shame on me for not noticing that

And yeah, Juan did have a pretty big shunt there as well in 2005. Just 2 minutes after teammate Raikkonen nearly did the exact same thing :lol:

tzerof1 · Post by **tzerof1** » 03 Apr 2012, 01:12

Wizzie wrote:And yeah, Juan did have a pretty big shunt there as well in 2005. Just 2 minutes after teammate Raikkonen nearly did the exact same thing

That just made me think of BAR, Spa 1999 :lol:

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 03 Apr 2012, 03:32

tzerof1 wrote:
Wizzie wrote:And yeah, Juan did have a pretty big shunt there as well in 2005. Just 2 minutes after teammate Raikkonen nearly did the exact same thing

That just made me think of BAR, Spa 1999

At the time of the JPM shunt, Ron Dennis was really p***Ed at Montoya becuase it meant he had to start at the very back (thanks to those silly qualifying formats used at the time).

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 05 Apr 2012, 13:11

ibsey wrote:On a simliar note there is of course the famous example of Ferrari letting Rene Arnoux go after only one race in 1985. IIRC the offical reason was apparently because "Rene needed a break". I'd say he did. Snorting some prime Colombian nose candy whilst banging the Old Man's grand daughter can really take it out of a man.

Where'd that story come from? That's the first I've ever heard of it. I've been looking through my old F1 encyclopedias, and all but one says "there was no explanation", with only the enormous Great Encyclopedia Of Formula One mentioning "official talk of a leg operation" which apparently annoyed Ferrari's idea that any display of physical frailty was practically treason (Michael Schumacher is yet to comment), but there's a further mention that Itsa Daboss didn't like Arnoux's "relaxed lifestyle" - whether that implies Colombian nose candy or merely the much safer kind of Coke (and the 1980s equivalent of a Magnum) is impossible to tell.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 12 Apr 2012, 12:00

dinizintheoven wrote:
ibsey wrote:On a simliar note there is of course the famous example of Ferrari letting Rene Arnoux go after only one race in 1985. IIRC the offical reason was apparently because "Rene needed a break". I'd say he did. Snorting some prime Colombian nose candy whilst banging the Old Man's grand daughter can really take it out of a man.

Where'd that story come from? That's the first I've ever heard of it. I've been looking through my old F1 encyclopedias, and all but one says "there was no explanation", with only the enormous Great Encyclopedia Of Formula One mentioning "official talk of a leg operation" which apparently annoyed Ferrari's idea that any display of physical frailty was practically treason (Michael Schumacher is yet to comment), but there's a further mention that Itsa Daboss didn't like Arnoux's "relaxed lifestyle" - whether that implies Colombian nose candy or merely the much safer kind of Coke (and the 1980s equivalent of a Magnum) is impossible to tell.

Here it is talked about in another Forum;

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?s ... &hl=Arnoux

For the 'Nose Candy' rumors read from post 12 onwards. However if you do a search on Arnoux & 1985, there are many more threads on the subject. To my knowledge nothing has ever been confirmed, however many people who are 'in the know' all have implied that the 'nose candy' rumors may have some truth in them.

Re; the "Rene needed a break" reason given from Ferrari, I think Murray mentioned that in his commentary for the 1985 San Marino GP, however I can't be 100% sure with that. Since it was a while ago now. Hope this helps.

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] · Post by **Sunshine_Baby_[IT]** » 12 Apr 2012, 12:47

ibsey wrote:For the 'Nose Candy' rumors read from post 12 onwards. However if you do a search on Arnoux & 1985, there are many more threads on the subject. To my knowledge nothing has ever been confirmed, however many people who are 'in the know' all have implied that the 'nose candy' rumors may have some truth in them.

Re; the "Rene needed a break" reason given from Ferrari, I think Murray mentioned that in his commentary for the 1985 San Marino GP, however I can't be 100% sure with that. Since it was a while ago now. Hope this helps.

On some Italian forums I read some other rumors with some different versions of the story. There are some rumors about some trouble with the law that were covered up by Ferrari. Another version is that he had a relationship with the teenager daughter of one of Ferrari managers.

midgrid · Post by **midgrid** » 14 Sep 2012, 23:48

ibsey wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:
midgrid wrote:Jean Alesi's excuse for missing his pit signals and running out of fuel during the 1997 Australian Grand Prix belongs in this thread, I think. He said that the Benetton garage was located precisely at a point on the start-finish straight where he was changing up a gear, and was therefore concentrating on looking at the rev-counter instead of reading his pit board.

Weren't all the mechanics hanging out off the pit wall onto the straight frantically waving at him towards the end though? I seem to remember something along those lines happening!

In an interview at the following the race, Flavio Briatore was asked what he would do, should Alesi decide to ignore his pit board again. Flavio, said this something along these lines...

..."on the 1st lap I shall wave my fists. On the second lap I shall wave a big gun. If that doesn't work, on the 3rd lap I will start shooting".

DC's just Tweeted this photo which Alex Wurz (then the Benetton test driver) says is of the additional pit sign that was erected in a bid to get Alesi to notice that he was meant to come in. I'm a bit sceptical about that, but I'm sure the sentiment was the same! :lol:

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 17 Sep 2012, 15:25

midgrid wrote:DC's just Tweeted this photo which Alex Wurz (then the Benetton test driver) says is of the additional pit sign that was erected in a bid to get Alesi to notice that he was meant to come in. I'm a bit sceptical about that, but I'm sure the sentiment was the same!

On a slightly simliar note, I believe it was Nigel Mansell who when once interviewed by Murray Walker, said something about getting "tunnel vison" & not paying any notice of his pit boards during those final laps of the 1987 British Grand Prix where he brilliantly caught & passed Nelson Piquet. IIRC The Williams team were hanging out all sorts of pit signals trying to warn Mansell to conserve his fuel. Whereas in that interview with Murray, Mansell, perhaps jokely, said something like "when your charging, you only see straight ahead, your vision either side is not too good".

What I do vividly remember however is on the 1987 FIA season review video of that particular race. Just as Mansell crosses the line to win the British GP. There is a shot of the Williams team on the pitwall all celebrating. However amongst the joyful mechanics is a serious looking Patrick Head, who appears to be closely monitoring what looked to be a stopwatch & a screen (probably showing Mansell's fuel consumption readout). I found that look on Patrick Head's face so funny. As if I read it correctly, it spoke volumes saying something like... 'your lucky Nigel you didn't run out of fuel. Cause if you did, I would have had your bollocks for breakfast!!!.'

So although Alesi has always been made fun of for ignoring his pitboard at Australia 1997. I doubt he is the only driver to have done so. It just everybody knows about Alesi's mistake, since he ran out of fuel.

Here another sort of excuse (this time nicked from another forum) for your enjoyment;

At the 1996 Indy 500, Richie Hearn came on the radio during the yellow flag period after Lyn St.James had collided with Scott Harrington. His voice was trembling.

'Guys, I gotta pee real bad!'

Eventually, team owner John della Penna told him what to do.

'Do it in the f'ing car!'

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 20 Sep 2012, 12:12

Here’s a few more ridiculous excuses to add here;

Australia 2000; Eddie Irvine claimed on ITV that he spun off in the race because when De La Rosa crashed just ahead of him, Irvine had to lift off in avoidance, which then pitched the car into a spin. As Martin Brundle in the commentary stated "that is an alarming handling trait, which Eddie Irvine had spoken about before during that particular weekend".

Here's an extract from Martin Brundle's book on why he failed to pass the leader, Nelson Piquet & win the 1984 Detroit race;

"I was ready to have a go as we came out of the chicane for the last time and headed towards the flag - only to find the track half blocked by celebrating Brabham mechanics as they welcomed Piquet's second win in 7 days...It seems ridiculous now to think of mechanics standing on the racing line as car charge towards it, but that's the way it was. The habit was banned shortly afterwards but it seems ironic when my good friend Charlie Whiting, then the Brabham chief mechanic but now the man in charge of F1 safety in his role as FIA Race Director, led the on-track celebrations. Even if Nelson Piquet had run out of fuel, there was no way I could have passed him without mowing down most of his team."

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Bernie Eccelstone ordered his mechanics to celebrate in middle of the track, thus ensuring that Brundle didn't snatch the win from them. That's the sort of thing I could imagine Bernie doing. :lol:

IIRC I think R Schumi claimed he was slower than JPM at his home race of Hockenhiem in 2001 because he was conserving his engine & therefore short shifting hence the reason he was behind JPM. Whereas, according to R Schumi, JPM was pushing his engine too hard, which caused it to blow up in the race. Conveniently R Schumi forgot to mention the BMW reliability were so on the edge, that the WIlliams team only ran for 5 minutes in the morning warm-up to conserve the engine life for the race. Furthermore R Schumi, also forgot to mention the circa 30 second pitstop JPM suffered, which meant the engine was sitting in idle soaking up heat, just before his engine failed & the extremely hot temperatures during the race day.

Robbie Kerr explains his out-lap mishap after A1GP qualifying for the 2007 Brands Hatch race, as "I'd thought. I'd try something different to warm up the tyres." This comes after he'd thrown it off the road at Sheene on his outlap and for an eternity it looked as though he was heading straight for someone's back garden.

Also I don't think M Schumi's initial excuse for Jerez 1997, has been mentioned here yet. Where IIRC he tried to blame JV for "trying to use his car as a brake".

Finally does anyone know if a driver has ever used the excuse of being distracted from a radio call? I am particularly interested to know since that has recently happened to me after dusting down & playing F1 2006 on the PS3. The 1st time I had played this game for a while. Basically I spun from the lead of a very enjoyable full distance race, with 2 laps to go because of a couple of reasons.

Firstly I was trying to take in the commentary which told the time gap between me & the 2nd place guy (Alonso), whilst negotiating a corner which is particularly difficult in that game (the righthander which leads you into the 'stadium' section at Hockenhiem). Also I had forgotten just how critical tyre pressures are in that game when you are racing in heavy wet weather conditions. So as I had been backing off, my tyre temperatures & pressures dropped, which helped cause the spin & made the car a bitch to handle afterwards. So to make myself feel slightly less embarrass by those mistakes, I would love to know if any F1 drivers have had similar incidents in real-life.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 20 Sep 2012, 13:10

ibsey wrote:Finally does anyone know if a driver has ever used the excuse of being distracted from a radio call? I am particularly interested to know since that has recently happened to me after dusting down & playing F1 2006 on the PS3. The 1st time I had played this game for a while. Basically I spun from the lead of a very enjoyable full distance race, with 2 laps to go because of a couple of reasons.

Firstly I was trying to take in the commentary which told the time gap between me & the 2nd place guy (Alonso), whilst negotiating a corner which is particularly difficult in that game (the righthander which leads you into the 'stadium' section at Hockenhiem). Also I had forgotten just how critical tyre pressures are in that game when you are racing in heavy wet weather conditions. So as I had been backing off, my tyre temperatures & pressures dropped, which helped cause the spin & made the car a bitch to handle afterwards. So to make myself feel slightly less embarrass by those mistakes, I would love to know if any F1 drivers have had similar incidents in real-life.

I do recall Kimi, while at Ferrari, once told the team over the radio, "Don't talk to me in the middle of a corner."

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 20 Sep 2012, 15:38

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I do recall Kimi, while at Ferrari, once told the team over the radio, "Don't talk to me in the middle of a corner."

I do vaugely remember that. Thanks for the reminder BlindCaveSalamander. That's the kind of thing you can imagine Kimi saying. :lol:

Also I think Alonso told his team not to talk to him anymore over the radio during IIRC the British GP in 2010, after he got into trouble from passing Kubica illegally.

midgrid · Post by **midgrid** » 20 Sep 2012, 17:01

Christijan Albers missed his braking point for Turn Three at Melbourne and crashed out in 2007, due to his earpiece falling out and distracting him.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 20 Sep 2012, 17:18

Alex Zanardi claimed his would-be fastest lap at Hockenheim qualifying in 1999 was ruined when Patrick Head shouted "You are five tents down in the first sector" to him over the radio. Zanardi knew Head had pressed the wrong button because he was negotiating the stadium section at the time and it ruined his concentration.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 21 Sep 2012, 07:18

midgrid wrote:Christijan Albers missed his braking point for Turn Three at Melbourne and crashed out in 2007, due to his earpiece falling out and distracting him.