Grand Prix Rejects

Yes, sorry didn't make that entirely clear - I did mean both penalties and I didn't see any excessive weaving either!

Dan B wrote:3: The Stewards: For the penalty against Alonso. Now, mind you, I am no fan of Alonso, but that was a racing incident. The penalty against Hamilton, okay, I can accept that, but what's next? A penalty for passing on the outside? Passing in the non-DRS zone (as someone pointed out)? I am curious as to know who the former driver-turned-steward-de-jour was, and if he had any say.

Why, why, why are people mumbling about this being harsh! They dropped him from sixth place to SIXTH PLACE. Apaarently he accepted it with good grace.
.

Myrvold wrote:So, let's get this straight.

Tyres that are too durable = boring, and bad.
Tyres that's easier to ruin = boring and bad.

Stewards not penalizing moves that break the rule = bad
Stewards that doen penalize moves that breaks the rules = bad.

Yep. You got it.

Ross Prawn wrote:

Dan B wrote:3: The Stewards: For the penalty against Alonso. Now, mind you, I am no fan of Alonso, but that was a racing incident. The penalty against Hamilton, okay, I can accept that, but what's next? A penalty for passing on the outside? Passing in the non-DRS zone (as someone pointed out)? I am curious as to know who the former driver-turned-steward-de-jour was, and if he had any say.

Why, why, why are people mumbling about this being harsh! They dropped him from sixth place to SIXTH PLACE. Apaarently he accepted it with good grace.
.

Point taken, but the penalty was still silly.

My point still stands against the stewards.

There were a handful of drivers that were anonymous in the race, namely Rosberg (way off the pace) and Sutil (you really must be beating di Resta, Adrian).

Hamilton obviously had a bad race too and got it seriously wrong with his tyres. It's another race where it was clear that Hamilton was a faster driver than Button, but Jenson was just far more sensible.

The stewards are a good nomination because both of the penalties came out of the blue. Alonso just couldn't move out of Hamilton's slipstream fast enough, and I don't think anyone saw Hamilton's weaving. I don't even necessary agree with the 2 move rule; I saw nothing dangerous in what Hamilton did last year at Malaysia, he was just trying to break the tow that he was giving Petrov, he was not trying to chop him.

Petrov's crash was spectacular, one of my favourite moments in recent years! I would give him ROTR, but I don't think he could have been expected to know that bump was there (still more than a bit foolish though).

However, ROTR can really only go to Williams. Miles off the pace, Maldonado has "pay-driver" written all over his face, Lotus are nipping at their heels, and a double DNF. Bit of a crap weekend then. This season for them could be the equivalent of Jordan's 2003.

watka wrote:This season for them could be the equivalent of Jordan's 2003.

Rubens confirmed for winning the Chinese Grand Prix.

Klon wrote:

watka wrote:This season for them could be the equivalent of Jordan's 2003.

Rubens confirmed for winning the Chinese Grand Prix.

I knew someone would mention that they won the 3rd race of that season.

watka wrote:

Klon wrote:

watka wrote:This season for them could be the equivalent of Jordan's 2003.

Rubens confirmed for winning the Chinese Grand Prix.

I knew someone would mention that they won the 3rd race of that season.

A man got to do, what a man has got to do.

Warren Hughes wrote:Williams - 2006 form. Nuff said.

If I recall correctly, they qualified 3rd and 4th in 2006. I know this as I started supporting them in 2006, after Jordan and Minardi's departure.

watka wrote:

Klon wrote:

watka wrote:This season for them could be the equivalent of Jordan's 2003.

Rubens confirmed for winning the Chinese Grand Prix.

I knew someone would mention that they won the 3rd race of that season.

I would rather Williams repeat Jordan's 1998 form to be honest - very competitive second-half of season having been pointless for first 8 or so races, then outside contenders for the titles the following season...

dr-baker wrote:I would rather Williams repeat Jordan's 1998 form to be honest - very competitive second-half of season having been pointless for first 8 or so races, then outside contenders for the titles the following season...

Yes! Belgian GP winners with a driver favourable to most fans, an old hand who had a bit of a naff year before despite a couple of good showings.

Sign up fairly average German driver alongside veteran in the following year (Glock, Sutil?) and push for the title!

the stewards for the ridiculous penalties

also Alonso's failure was quite rejectful
Williams' performance was rather expected, and they have a bright future as I see

AndreaModa wrote:

dr-baker wrote:I would rather Williams repeat Jordan's 1998 form to be honest - very competitive second-half of season having been pointless for first 8 or so races, then outside contenders for the titles the following season...

Yes! Belgian GP winners with a driver favourable to most fans, an old hand who had a bit of a naff year before despite a couple of good showings.

Sign up fairly average German driver alongside veteran in the following year (Glock, Sutil?) and push for the title!

But surely 2013 will then be a repeat of 2000? Things have to change there!

Peter wrote:Nominating Williams for ROTR. They said they were top 10 pace, top 10 my ass.

I second that.

Williams for having one driver hopelesly over his head and one driver that's just hopeless.

I'm expecting Sauber to beat Williams this season.

Sullivangate wrote:Williams for having one driver hopelesly over his head and one driver that's just hopeless.

I'm expecting Sauber to beat Williams this season.

Sauber won't beat williams, they already have. The gap in Quaifing was huge. Williams for hiring a has-been and a pay driver. And also could I say the weather man for getting it complety wrong?

Not sure if I posted here already and CBA to read through to verify.

my nominations:

Williams: Abysmal pace, Abysmal reliability, Abysmal results. Their slide is starting to resemble the fate of the original Team Lotus more and more. Lets face it, Williams are done as far as being a top team is concerned and anyone thinking otherwise is just delusional.

Mercedes: In theory they got all the ingredient to be contending for wins. But in practice they barely got the stuff to fight for points. Schuey barely 9th and Rosberg 12th REALLY isn't what you'd expect from a team with their pedigree.

Two very clear candidates in Williams and Mercedes, but for me it has to be the Mercs.

Comparing the funds available and pre-season boasts, they are underperforming more than Williams in my view. Rubens would have probably been around where Rosberg was tooling about
if he'd kept going without incident ...

madmark1974 wrote:Two very clear candidates in Williams and Mercedes, but for me it has to be the Mercs.

Comparing the funds available and pre-season boasts, they are underperforming more than Williams in my view. Rubens would have probably been around where Rosberg was tooling about
if he'd kept going without incident ...

But at least they can, with a upgrade, move up a bit. And be in the thereabouts.

Williams have been a bit hopeless at the beginning of the season (despite showing some pace in Australia). And because of this I nominate them for the ROTR.

The other candidates for me (a close 2nd) were the Stewards who, once again, penalized racing. Yes, Hamilton weaved a bit but a penalty? The Alonso bump was an accident and he lost a possible podium because of it. It all seemed like someone wanted to dish out penalties just because there was nothing else to do... Shame on you, Pirro!

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:

dr-baker wrote:I would rather Williams repeat Jordan's 1998 form to be honest - very competitive second-half of season having been pointless for first 8 or so races, then outside contenders for the titles the following season...

Yes! Belgian GP winners with a driver favourable to most fans, an old hand who had a bit of a naff year before despite a couple of good showings.

Sign up fairly average German driver alongside veteran in the following year (Glock, Sutil?) and push for the title!

But surely 2013 will then be a repeat of 2000? Things have to change there!

Well, I don't see any promisingly quick young Italians on the grid, so at least would be different...

I'm going to have to go for the Williams and Mercedes option as well. Dismal performances for both teams.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Well, I don't see any promisingly quick young Italians on the grid, so at least would be different...

Andrea Caldarelli to the rescue.

Petrov was the 2nd driver to have been taken out by a drain cover on a track by Hermann Tilke. The other was Juan-Pablo Montoya at Shanghai when he drove for McLaren. It's about time Hermann Tilke gets an award for this.

I nominate the haters. This (and the one in Australia) were really good, interesting races - and still noone seems to be able to enjoy any of it.
Edit: Oops - just realize I already nominated the weather. Sorry.

1st - The stewards: seriously, what was going on with those fools? You can't issue penalties for good, honest, racing. Even less so if we're talking about the two best drivers in the grid that could kick all the crap out of Vettel's ass if given another Red Bull. In fact, the one move rule is silly, just get rid of it, please!
2nd - Williams: car off the pace, very unreliable and bad luck thrown in for good measure.

Phoenix wrote:1st - The stewards: seriously, what was going on with those fools? You can't issue penalties for good, honest, racing.

Good honest racing is running into the back of someone?

On the basis of information found in the last hour I'm going to throw Sebastian Buemi into the ring. Speeding in the pitlane is bad enough, breaking the limit by over 20km/h is simply unforgivable.

Ed24 wrote:

Phoenix wrote:1st - The stewards: seriously, what was going on with those fools? You can't issue penalties for good, honest, racing.

Good honest racing is running into the back of someone?

It wasn't on purpose - like if it was the first time an incident like this happens.

Ed24 wrote:

Phoenix wrote:1st - The stewards: seriously, what was going on with those fools? You can't issue penalties for good, honest, racing.

Good honest racing is running into the back of someone?

No, good honest racing is trying your hardest on the track. Sometimes it doesn't always come off. To punish someone for a simple racing incident continues a worrying precedent. Luckily, it didn't affect Alonso's overall position, so no harm done in real terms, but it sends out a bad message - "don't try too hard".

P_Friesacher wrote:I nominate the haters. This (and the one in Australia) were really good, interesting races - and still noone seems to be able to enjoy any of it.

"No one" seems a bit harsh! Those who are only happy if the lead changes throughout the race seem to be in a small minority.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Well, I don't see any promisingly quick young Italians on the grid, so at least would be different...

Could maybe squeeze Paul Di Resta in on a technicality!

fjackdaw wrote:

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Well, I don't see any promisingly quick young Italians on the grid, so at least would be different...

Could maybe squeeze Paul Di Resta in on a technicality!

And I presume Dario Franchitti qualifies under the same technicality correct?

What about Valsecchi? Trulli will get bored halfway through the season, in he comes and scores the first points for the new Lotus team!

Boom!

Dan B wrote:1: Williams: Wasn't this car pegged to be a race winner? I know, it's too early in the season, but here comes Williams at the beginning of the season saying they are going to be right up there with the leading teams. So far, both races thus far have achieved double DNFs. What is going on Frank? Heck, I haven't seen Williams perform this badly since the Walrus of 2004, and that was when I started watching since I was 2 (and that would have been...1991 I think?). Heck, the car does have a semblance to the Walrus too...

Frankly, Williams would probably be wishing for the performance they had in 2004 - after all, in 2004, Montoya finished 2nd in Malaysia, and they could still finish consistently in the top eight throughout the season. I know that some have compared this to 2006, when the car was unreliable, but even then they still managed a double points scoring finish in the opening race, and the FW-28 was, when it was running, actually reasonably fast - it was regularly in the top 10 in qualifying (Rosberg qualified in 3rd place in Malaysia!).

By comparison, the FW33 has not been either especially quick or reliable - this (two double DNF's) is the worst start to the season that Williams GP have ever made since their foundation in 1977 (since, in the past, at least one car made it to the finish in the opening two races, even if it was out of the points). They really need to turn things around in China - and quickly - otherwise we might be witnessing the same slow collapse that teams like Brabham and the original Team Lotus went through, which would be a really sad thing to see happen.

Yannick wrote:Petrov was the 2nd driver to have been taken out by a drain cover on a track by Hermann Tilke. The other was Juan-Pablo Montoya at Shanghai when he drove for McLaren. It's about time Hermann Tilke gets an award for this.

Erm, we've seen drivers taken out by drain covers at other circuits, not just Tilke's tracks - remember Monaco last year, where Rubens's crash was put down to a drain cover coming loose and smashing his suspension?

AndreaModa wrote:What about Valsecchi? Trulli will get bored halfway through the season, in he comes and scores the first points for the new Lotus team!
Boom!

Careful now. If Trulli gets bored, I'd put money on Karun Chandhok getting the drive, rejectful crash in Australia be damned, because where is there a new Grand Prix being held this year...

mario wrote:By comparison, the FW33 has not been either especially quick or reliable - this (two double DNF's) is the worst start to the season that Williams GP have ever made since their foundation in 1977 (since, in the past, at least one car made it to the finish in the opening two races, even if it was out of the points). They really need to turn things around in China - and quickly - otherwise we might be witnessing the same slow collapse that teams like Brabham and the original Team Lotus went through, which would be a really sad thing to see happen.

With this innovation that is the very tight rear end, that isn't working, will the FW33 turn out to be Williams' BT55? That's the car that effectively sentenced Brabham to death...

dinizintheoven wrote:

mario wrote:By comparison, the FW33 has not been either especially quick or reliable - this (two double DNF's) is the worst start to the season that Williams GP have ever made since their foundation in 1977 (since, in the past, at least one car made it to the finish in the opening two races, even if it was out of the points). They really need to turn things around in China - and quickly - otherwise we might be witnessing the same slow collapse that teams like Brabham and the original Team Lotus went through, which would be a really sad thing to see happen.

With this innovation that is the very tight rear end, that isn't working, will the FW33 turn out to be Williams' BT55? That's the car that effectively sentenced Brabham to death...

For me, what really condemned Brabham was the sellout in 1988. The new owners failed to properly fund the team, which affected its performance, and ultimately the last batch of owners proved to be corrupt (they were illegaly funding the team, I just don't how exactly right now).

My ROTR is the Formula 1 website's weather report. it says it should rain all three days of the weekend, but guess what, the weatherman got it all wrong.

Honorable mention: petrov going airborne. I don't know if its indeed a steering column failure or driver error? But that was pretty lame indeed.

Williams: For obvious reasons.

Special mention for F1 website's weather report. Storm racing? And for Alguersuari for finish behind Buemi who took a 10 second stop-in-go penalty.

dinizintheoven wrote:With this innovation that is the very tight rear end, that isn't working, will the FW33 turn out to be Williams' BT55? That's the car that effectively sentenced Brabham to death...

I think they were relatively fast in the race in Australia and that there's more to see from Williams.

/eternal optimist

I heard there was a party, it was last week you say, well er...

Alonso - For crashing into the back of Hamilton
Hamilton - For failing to get a good result