Grand Prix Rejects

Wizzie wrote:

madmark1974 wrote:Well, having finally gotten around to watching the race last night, I have to say that it was very enjoyable with good racing throughout the field - I won't spoil the result for anyone who is
yet to see it and still interested in doing so. And as for the 'reject' CRT bikes, I thought they did pretty well, as expected Colin Edwards was leading the (leisurely) 'charge' and seemed to
have a pretty lonely time - but as far as I know no-one was lapped, possibly because of the long lap time at Qatar, but not a bad effort from anyone really, not that they showed much of
the CRT 'action' except for Edwards and De Puniet.

I think in F1 if HRT or Marussia went unlapped for approx. 45 minutes they'd consider that a success ...

Didn't Edwards come within like 3 seconds of beating Rossi on his hateful Ducati?

Well, he was close at one stage, but in the end, er, no ...

10 Valentino ROSSI ITA Ducati Team Ducati 164.0 +33.665
11 Ben SPIES USA Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha 162.6 +56.907
12 Colin EDWARDS USA NGM Mobile Forward Racing Suter 162.5 +58.088
13 Randy DE PUNIET FRA Power Electronics Aspar ART 161.7 +1'10.650

Spies's problem was constant chattering, BTW ...

It wasn't a bad race, though certainly not a classic. The BBC coverage is as lacklustre and cheap as ever.

I guess watching the Moto2 and Moto3 beforehand is never a good idea because the racing is so much better in the lower classes. Filling the MotoGP grid with a bunch of second-class bikes won't solve anything because one of the biggest problems with MotoGP in recent years has been the field spread of the bikes, which is exacerbated by low grid numbers. The problem with the CRT bikes is they're at least a second off the pace of even the slowest prototypes, so the victor of that battle is academic. A race isn't interesting or exciting when the bikes all have 3 second gaps between them that they can't close down. Of course this occurs naturally in a racing environment anyway, but with fewer bikes, the effect 'appears' more pronounced.

Carmelo Ezpeleta is a complete idiot. The solution to improving MotoGP's fortunes and getting more bikes on the grid is down to cost. The amount of electronics on a MotoGP bike these days is beyond belief. They limited it slightly a few years ago banning launch control and electronic suspension, but that still leaves a whole host of aids that are strangling the life out of the sport. Plus that also has an effect on the racing as well. Ban the electronics, let's see these riders work for their salaries, and consequently get costs down so we have Suzuki and Kawasaki back in, hell maybe even Aprillia might return and bring BMW with them. Examining a way in which privateer chassis and engine builders could enter as well would be a good route, it wasn't that long ago that we had WCM, Kenny Roberts, Illmor, and a load of others building their own chassis and competing against the big boys. We need this kind of competition back, and Ezpeleta hasn't a clue.

The way they're going, at this rate we'll just have a World Superbikes for rich kids. And don't even get me started on whether the two classes should merge or not...

/rant.

I don't like all the Cal Crutchlow bias in the commentary. I prefer my coverage impartial...

East Londoner wrote:Mr Stoner is going home at the end of this season.

My reaction:

East Londoner wrote:Mr Stoner is going home at the end of this season.

Well, I don't blame him not wanting to race into his thirties with the high risk of serious injury in the sport. He was always known as a crasher prior to the electronics taking over the sport anyway. It would have been nice to still see him around if/when the majority of electronics are banned so a proper judgement of his riding ability could be made. I have no doubt he's an excellent rider, but his style of wringing the bike's neck has been aided immeasurably by the electronic aids on the bikes for the past 4 or 5 years or so. Still, he's got his wife and baby to think about, so it's hard not to criticise him for the decision.

AndreaModa wrote:

East Londoner wrote:Mr Stoner is going home at the end of this season.

Well, I don't blame him not wanting to race into his thirties with the high risk of serious injury in the sport. He was always known as a crasher prior to the electronics taking over the sport anyway. It would have been nice to still see him around if/when the majority of electronics are banned so a proper judgement of his riding ability could be made. I have no doubt he's an excellent rider, but his style of wringing the bike's neck has been aided immeasurably by the electronic aids on the bikes for the past 4 or 5 years or so. Still, he's got his wife and baby to think about, so it's hard not to criticise him for the decision.

Yup, that's also true. After what's happened with Simoncelli last season, retiring being a (twice?) World Champion is a very good thing to do, especially if he has a family to take care of.

So soon? A shame... I find Stoner to be quite the driver and although he is a bit fragile he is probably the fastest rider around. This can only mean that Lorenzo will run away with multiple championships in the next few years. I wonder how MotoGP will cope with that. Bearing in mind also that Valentino Rossi (the most known rider on the planet) won't stay for long trundling around in that Ducati and be happy grinding points finishes. We can only hope someone new come along because, quite frankly, Lorenzo is mighty boring.

DanielPT wrote:So soon? A shame... I find Stoner to be quite the driver and although he is a bit fragile he is probably the fastest rider around. This can only mean that Lorenzo will run away with multiple championships in the next few years. I wonder how MotoGP will cope with that. Bearing in mind also that Valentino Rossi (the most known rider on the planet) won't stay for long trundling around in that Ducati and be happy grinding points finishes. We can only hope someone new come along because, quite frankly, Lorenzo is mighty boring.

That's true, even if Rossi and Ducati come good, he doesn't have much more than a couple of years left in him. I don't think Dovisioso is good enough, he certainly wasn't last year on a full factory Honda. I have my reservations about Bautista, but maybe he'll start to show some promise this year, and then you have Bradl who is looking quite good already. Crutchlow is getting the hang of things too, but even as a British fan, I have my reservations after the countless failures we've had in the class over the past decade.

I can imagine Marc Marquez getting the ride if he wins Moto2. He already has Repsol sponsorship and he will probably win the Moto2 championship.

Other than that Ivan Silva should be given the ride.

DanielPT wrote:So soon? A shame... I find Stoner to be quite the driver and although he is a bit fragile he is probably the fastest rider around. This can only mean that Lorenzo will run away with multiple championships in the next few years. I wonder how MotoGP will cope with that. Bearing in mind also that Valentino Rossi (the most known rider on the planet) won't stay for long trundling around in that Ducati and be happy grinding points finishes. We can only hope someone new come along because, quite frankly, Lorenzo is mighty boring.

That someone new WOULD be Pedrosa if he wasn't so busy being injury prone

Wizzie wrote:

DanielPT wrote:So soon? A shame... I find Stoner to be quite the driver and although he is a bit fragile he is probably the fastest rider around. This can only mean that Lorenzo will run away with multiple championships in the next few years. I wonder how MotoGP will cope with that. Bearing in mind also that Valentino Rossi (the most known rider on the planet) won't stay for long trundling around in that Ducati and be happy grinding points finishes. We can only hope someone new come along because, quite frankly, Lorenzo is mighty boring.

That someone new WOULD be Pedrosa if he wasn't so busy being injury prone

HA! Are you serious? Pedrosa's had more than enough chances and has been on that factory Honda for far longer than he deserves. He's good, but nothing special, and I don't think he could win a championship unless all the other top riders were out for a length of time with injury. He just hasn't been able to cut it.

AndreaModa wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

DanielPT wrote:So soon? A shame... I find Stoner to be quite the driver and although he is a bit fragile he is probably the fastest rider around. This can only mean that Lorenzo will run away with multiple championships in the next few years. I wonder how MotoGP will cope with that. Bearing in mind also that Valentino Rossi (the most known rider on the planet) won't stay for long trundling around in that Ducati and be happy grinding points finishes. We can only hope someone new come along because, quite frankly, Lorenzo is mighty boring.

That someone new WOULD be Pedrosa if he wasn't so busy being injury prone

HA! Are you serious? Pedrosa's had more than enough chances and has been on that factory Honda for far longer than he deserves. He's good, but nothing special, and I don't think he could win a championship unless all the other top riders were out for a length of time with injury. He just hasn't been able to cut it.

Ah. I don't pay attention to MotoGP for more than about 2 minutes at a time so I wouldn't know that

Pedrosa is forever the nearly man of MotoGP. To be honest I think Lorenzo will probably win everything once Stoner is gone.

Wizzie wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:

Wizzie wrote:
That someone new WOULD be Pedrosa if he wasn't so busy being injury prone

HA! Are you serious? Pedrosa's had more than enough chances and has been on that factory Honda for far longer than he deserves. He's good, but nothing special, and I don't think he could win a championship unless all the other top riders were out for a length of time with injury. He just hasn't been able to cut it.

Ah. I don't pay attention to MotoGP for more than about 2 minutes at a time so I wouldn't know that

We can all see that!

I think Pedrosa is a really good driver, but his physical attributes (thin, small and not that strong) hinders him in the more heavy and powerful MotoGP bikes.

East Londoner wrote:Mr Stoner is going home at the end of this season.

Added to that announcement, Stoner has launched a fairly sizeable broadside against the CRT concept, citing that as a major reason why he no longer wants to race in MotoGP and going as far as saying that the sport is "going backwards". [That said, whilst Rossi has been supportive of Stoner he has pointed out that Stoner's desire for a prototype only series is unrealistic, given that the cost of hiring a factory works bike is now crippling high (reportedly approaching the €10 million mark) and there simply isn't enough money available for the full, competitive field of manufacturer backed bikes that Stoner wants to see http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99667 ]

Added to that, he has also criticised the media coverage of the sport and his personal life - particularly about his lactose intolerance problems, which he feels are still being mocked by the media - saying that he has become increasingly disenchanted with the sport due to the repeated negative coverage and criticism of him and MotoGP in general. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99662

mario wrote:

East Londoner wrote:Mr Stoner is going home at the end of this season.

Added to that announcement, Stoner has launched a fairly sizeable broadside against the CRT concept, citing that as a major reason why he no longer wants to race in MotoGP and going as far as saying that the sport is "going backwards". [That said, whilst Rossi has been supportive of Stoner he has pointed out that Stoner's desire for a prototype only series is unrealistic, given that the cost of hiring a factory works bike is now crippling high (reportedly approaching the €10 million mark) and there simply isn't enough money available for the full, competitive field of manufacturer backed bikes that Stoner wants to see http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99667 ]

That's an interesting perspective to take in my opinion. I think we can all agree that we'd rather have a grid full of prototypes rather than mock-Superbikes taking up half of it, but with costs as they are, there's no other way. I keep banging on about it, and I'm sorry, but I just wonder when Carmelo Ezpeleta and the idiots at the FIM will realise that banning all of the crazily expensive, over-complicated electronics aids is the answer to most of MotoGP's problems. It really isn't rocket science.

mario wrote:Added to that, he has also criticised the media coverage of the sport and his personal life - particularly about his lactose intolerance problems, which he feels are still being mocked by the media - saying that he has become increasingly disenchanted with the sport due to the repeated negative coverage and criticism of him and MotoGP in general. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99662

It's a shame he has to be so negative. I was at Donington Park, it must have been 2007, when Stoner won. The British fans gave him a bit of light-hearted stick because Rossi hadn't won. But he took it in completely the wrong way, got all angry at the fans and hit out at them when interviewed on the podium, and ever since he's been a bit funny about each season's race in Britain. Hardly endeared himself to the British public that day I can tell you. I understand that it must be very annoying when the media fail to fully understand his condition, and raise questions over his ability and strength, but he goes about it in totally the wrong way, as he did with the British fans. He either has a massive inferiority complex, or just takes things far too personally.

I don't see the problem with production based bikes, for me unlike the cars motorbike racing has always been about the riders. Indeed as the technology on the bikes has improved in recent years (anti wheelie, traction control etc.) the racing has declined.

The CRT bikes aren't exactly slow, they are lapping within a few seconds of the best riders on the best bikes in the world, so I am sure that if we saw Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo et al battling on CRT machines the racing would be just as good, if not better than it is now.

That said, what we have now is a bit farcical, but only because we have essentially two different classes of racing disguised as one, but I wouldn't mind seeing a full grid of CRT machines, as long as MotoGP continues to attract the best riders in the world.

IdeFan wrote:I don't see the problem with production based bikes, for me unlike the cars motorbike racing has always been about the riders. Indeed as the technology on the bikes has improved in recent years (anti wheelie, traction control etc.) the racing has declined.

The CRT bikes aren't exactly slow, they are lapping within a few seconds of the best riders on the best bikes in the world, so I am sure that if we saw Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo et al battling on CRT machines the racing would be just as good, if not better than it is now.

That said, what we have now is a bit farcical, but only because we have essentially two different classes of racing disguised as one, but I wouldn't mind seeing a full grid of CRT machines, as long as MotoGP continues to attract the best riders in the world.

Arguably, part of the problem is that one of the selling points of Moto GP (at least to the manufacturers) is the potential for advanced technological solutions developed for the current generation of Moto GP bikes can then trickle down into the wider consumer market. Removing the "exotic" nature of the bikes would certainly bring down the cost of development, but at the same time it would remove the main factor that distinguishes it from the World Superbike Championship, which runs production derived bikes (although there has been a rise of "homologation specials" in recent years, blurring the lines between production and prototype bikes).

Stacey Moaner, one of the most talented bike riders going but one of the biggest moaners to boot. With Rossi looking as if he should hang up the keys I predict years of Lorenzo dominance, woopie doo .

Ben Spies is a strong contender for ROTY.

Lorenzo is leading the championship whilst factory team mate Spies is 11th in the standings with a best finish of 8th.

Tell you who is looking quite good...Stefan Bradl.

He's made the step up from Moto2 with relative ease, so it's good to see him taking the fight to the more experienced guys on the LCR machine.

Spies hasn't had a lot of luck this season, which is a shame. I believe that he can probably turn it around, though. RdP had no luck today either.

I love how Ellison got top CRT when his idiot team boss Paul Bird was going to rest him for a round.

Can someone fill me in on why Moto2 and Moto3 never race at Laguna Seca?

Wizzie wrote:Can someone fill me in on why Moto2 and Moto3 never race at Laguna Seca?

Back when it was still 125's and 250's they were banned due to 2 stroke air pollution regulations, I have no idea why they don't race there now that they use 4 stroke engines.

eurobrun wrote:

Wizzie wrote:Can someone fill me in on why Moto2 and Moto3 never race at Laguna Seca?

Back when it was still 125's and 250's they were banned due to 2 stroke air pollution regulations, I have no idea why they don't race there now that they use 4 stroke engines.

Is it not just that the paddock is too small to house all of the gear?

madmark1974 wrote:

eurobrun wrote:

Wizzie wrote:Can someone fill me in on why Moto2 and Moto3 never race at Laguna Seca?

Back when it was still 125's and 250's they were banned due to 2 stroke air pollution regulations, I have no idea why they don't race there now that they use 4 stroke engines.

Is it not just that the paddock is too small to house all of the gear?

I would have suggested it had something to do with cutting shipping costs for the lower budget junior category teams, but then I realised they race at Indy following Laguna Seca, so that can't be it...

I think its a combination of factors, up until this year the 125s would not be allowed to run due to the air pollution regulations, so they have had some domestic series supporting them instead.

Presumably there is enough room in the paddock for more than just motogp, so perhaps it is a stipulation of the contract with the AMA that they have AMA sanctioned support races, and there is simply no room for MotoGP, AMA and Moto 2+3. Presumably this contract was in place before the switch over to four stroke support classes, and Dorna/FIM have yet to have an opportunity to renegotiate.

I have been thinking recently, Stoner's retirement wouldn't make such a huge impact if SuperSic was still here. 58 vs 99 would have been the new 3 vs 43, another epic head-to-head rivalry between two Italians at the top of the sport. He was the future, and MotoGP has been robbed of it.

RIP Marco.

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/100311

Ciao Marco, sarai sempre nei nostri cuori

kostas22 wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/100311

Ciao Marco, sarai sempre nei nostri cuori

It's a nice gesture but blimey the circuit name is a bit of a mouthful now!

AndreaModa wrote:

kostas22 wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/100311

Ciao Marco, sarai sempre nei nostri cuori

It's a nice gesture but blimey the circuit name is a bit of a mouthful now!

If it were up to me I would have named it "Autodromo Misano Marco Simoncelli". Has a nicer ring to it.

Wizzie wrote:BMW have their say on MotoGP's state of affairs

Well I'm not sure what to make of those comments to be honest. But I am really starting to 100% agree with whoever said that expensive electronics were the problem. (AndreaModa I think)

eurobrun wrote:

Wizzie wrote:BMW have their say on MotoGP's state of affairs

Well I'm not sure what to make of those comments to be honest. But I am really starting to 100% agree with whoever said that expensive electronics were the problem. (AndreaModa I think)

Yep. Spot on Eurobrun. I keep on saying it like a broken record, and I'm sorry for that, but the bikes are just crazily overcomplicated with electronics. You take all that away, and fundamentally the bikes are actually quite basic. There's no aerodynamics like in F1, so it's all about mechanical power and grip. If they did away with the electronics, brought in a standard ECU for all bikes with only limited capability, and they could easily fill a grid of 20-25 bikes of prototype MotoGP standard. You'd have far more manufacturers interested in it because whether World Superbikes like it or not, MotoGP is still the pinnacle of bike racing, and is the best platform to advertise as a manufacturer to the watching millions. WSBK isn't even shown on British TV anymore from what I'm aware, at least not for free, whereas MotoGP has every race live on the BBC. It's a no brainer, but currently the costs are far too high, simply because of the massively complex electronics and Carmelo Ezpeleta is sh*t scared of loosing Honda if he said that the electronics were going to be banned and a standard ECU implemented. He doesn't have the balls to roll the dice and take a risk for the future of the sport. Instead he's willing to dumb it all down, sweep the problem under the carpet and turn MotoGP into an expensive World Superbikes instead. It's madness.

Ben Spies to leave Yahama at the end of the year. Someone just give the guy ROTY already

That being said, who would be Lorenzo's teammate next year? I assume it'd be a straight fight between Dovizioso and Marc Marques but knowing almost nothing about MotoGP, I'm probably completely wrong

Wizzie wrote:Ben Spies to leave Yahama at the end of the year. Someone just give the guy ROTY already

That being said, who would be Lorenzo's teammate next year? I assume it'd be a straight fight between Dovizioso and Marc Marques but knowing almost nothing about MotoGP, I'm probably completely wrong

Marquez has already signed for Honda

Give the ride to Jose Luis Cardoso, a true MotoGP reject.

Wizzie wrote:Ben Spies to leave Yahama at the end of the year. Someone just give the guy ROTY already

That being said, who would be Lorenzo's teammate next year? I assume it'd be a straight fight between Dovizioso and Marc Marques but knowing almost nothing about MotoGP, I'm probably completely wrong

Surely it has to be Dovi. I don't think Crutchlow has earned it, despite all of his (self-made) claims to deserving a factory ride. Although
with Cal having had talks with Ducati, I wonder what will happen with Nicky Hayden - though I can't see him going to Yamaha.

Apart from Lorenzo and Pedrosa, it's all going on, and those are the two guys you'd put as favourites for the title next season.

Dovi's just cost himself a works Yahama ride for next year.

Because Yahama will surely appreciate the muppet letting the cat out of the bag

Hayden has re-signed with Ducati for next year, so he's secure, and it's rumoured Rossi has been offered a €17 million contract by Ducati to keep him there. Personally I can't see him going to Yamaha to partner Lorenzo, they're too opposed, and there are apparently sponsorship conflicts/issues but I'm not exactly sure what they are. I think Dovizioso will get the factory Yamaha seat, and be a far better number two to Lorenzo.

It's a bit left field, but my money is on Rossi switching to Honda, but on a satellite/semi-works bike as part of a new single bike team. It'll essentially be a third Repsol Honda, but source funding from elsewhere.

That leaves a seat at Ducati free, which I reckon will be taken by Crutchlow as he won't want to partner Smith at Tech 3, and we know that Cal has already been in serious talks with Ducati already. Smith will then go with either Spies, or possibly Bradl in Tech 3, unless they find someone else to promote. I don't think Spies will hang about in MotoGP, but if he'll get a seat anywhere, I suspect that it'll only be there.

The rest of the prototype grid will fart around as usual and shuffle the existing riders about a bit, and maybe bring in a few new faces.

Also, is anyone else other than myself looking forward to seeing Pedrosa get beaten to a pulp by Marquez next year? I honestly cannot believe Honda are sticking with Dani yet again. He's had so many chances, blown all of them, and yet still finds himself on one of the best bikes on the grid. He's easily the most fortunate rider in the field at the moment, and reminds me a bit of Alex Criville who only won a championship once Doohan had to pack it in. Honda should ditch him and slot Rossi in alongside Marquez, but that will definitely not happen now.