Grand Prix Rejects

mario wrote:

CoopsII wrote:

Ferrim wrote: You can't ask Pirelli to make Monaco wider.

Perhaps someone should, as exciting as the end of the race was I dont think any of the top 5 were really considering an overtake.

I know, I know, Monaco, blah-blah, bicycle round living room, historic, blah-blah, jewel in F1s crown, etc etc. But the first corner after the tunnel is far too acute, there didnt look like room for two cars at all so why not loosen it off and it could be an overtaking spot again?

So my third and non-contention nomination would be the circuit designers of today.

If they were going to try to widen the circuit, how could they do that? Asides from the fact that you are limited to the width of your average road (which is normally narrower than your average circuit anyway) due to the nature of the circuit, you also have to take into account the fact that pushing the barriers back would restrict the amount of room available for the marshals and recovery equipment. True, there may be a couple of places where it might be possible to widen the circuit, but you are still fairly limited in terms of what you can do given the limited amount of room available.

so I came up with this...




Red is the new layout, green is the old layout.

It does mean getting rid of Rascasse, but you will gain extra seafront, a straight straight, a passing place (hairpin) and a faster approach to the start finish which means more speed can be carried across the line, increasing the possibilities of passing into turn 1.

Monaco has already been widened these last few years, actually. Rascasse is now wider, there is way more room at Sainte Dévote, as well as through the swimming pool. What's surprising is that, at the same time, there's now LESS room after Loews, down Mirabeau and Portier; there used to be a escape road to the left that has been replaced by a guardrail.

There is no immediately-obvious contender for Reject of the Race. Jenson Button springs to mind, but I don't think he really deserves it because, as Martin Brundle pointed out, Kovalainen was lapping at the same pace as the Toro Rossos and Force Indias. The CT-01 doesn't have the raw one-lap pace just yet, but it's fast enough to hold its own over longer runs.

I'm going to nominate Kimi Raikkonen myself. Once again, Lotus failed to live up to (admittedly quite high) expectations. Michael Schumacher's luck is another contender.

pasta_maldonado wrote:so I came up with this...

Blasphemy!

You should never add or subtract from Monaco. You can only ever change what already exists.

The only real change that I think would be a) feasible and b) worth making is to reprofile the Nouvelle Chicane. I would probably continue the circuit beyond the current chicane, going down the Avenue John F. Kennedy where the new high-grip surface is. This would require a new section of dock to be built to allow for some more run-off. I would also open lines of sight into the entrance of the chicane by having the armco barriers curve out towards the water.

Pastor maldonado - I know people will be saying he was barely in it, but he caused it all himself, had he not been an idiot im FP3 he would have only been dropping to around Button's place and who knows what he could have done? To top it all he ruined De la rosa's chances which, since he outqualified Marussia would have done the team a huge boost.

honourable mentions

Toro rosso tyre chief - yes it rained, but nowhere near enough for the crossover point, they should have just let Vergne stay out and do what Kovy did with Button

the stewards - we saw repeated cutting of the chicane out of the tunnel, the only person who genuinely did it intelligently was karthekayan to keep out of five cars wy, no one else needed to do it. Kovaleienen did it far too often, even Webber and schumacher did it more than a few times. should have been penalties

Jenson Button - Above chicane cutting aside from the guy ahead, he truly was on a miserable weekend, we know how monaco is the most difficult place in the world to pass, but with fresh rubber on his wagon he should have easily generated a gap to come out ahead of Kovy, that is my reason for him being mentioned here.

My nominations:

Jenson Button - 'Crap' doesn't even come close to describing his afternoon. That was a simply pathetic showing from the former champion
Group Bahar - To put it simply, they blew it. Raikkonen was the only one to really chew through his tyres in the first stint and Grosjean pretty much was the creator of his own demise

But my Reject of the Race is:

Pastor Maldonado - Barcelona hero, Monaco absolute zero

mario wrote:If they were going to try to widen the circuit, how could they do that?

They couldnt, I was being mildly facetious but I do think the area at the Nouvelle Chicane needs looking at. Perhaps if it was pulled back a metre two cars could actually get round it without contact.

But what they hell do I know, Monaco will never be a massive overtake-fest but I was expecting a little bit more than we saw yesterday.

I think the main candidate has to be Pastor Maldonado, I know everyone else has trotted out the old 'hero to zero' saying, but I think it's more than that, after Spain there were signs that
perhaps he had matured, could stay consistent, and (in his opinion) even mount a championship challenge - er, no! He showed signs of petulance, impatience and immaturity, and probably lost
all the new fans he might have gained after Spain. So, in my opinion, it goes beyond Reject of the Race and is more Reject of the Respect Earned Previously To The Race (ROTREPTTR).

Also a strong mention for Jenson Button for invoking the Spirit Of Coulthard Past - and at least Coulthard got passed Bernoldi at the pit stops, Jenson didn't even have enough speed to do that ...

madmark1974 wrote:I think the main candidate has to be Pastor Maldonado, I know everyone else has trotted out the old 'hero to zero' saying, but I think it's more than that, after Spain there were signs that
perhaps he had matured, could stay consistent, and (in his opinion) even mount a championship challenge - er, no! He showed signs of petulance, impatience and immaturity, and probably lost
all the new fans he might have gained after Spain. So, in my opinion, it goes beyond Reject of the Race and is more Reject of the Respect Earned Previously To The Race (ROTREPTTR).

I think he's powered into ROTY contention with his display this weekend.

East Londoner wrote:

madmark1974 wrote:I think the main candidate has to be Pastor Maldonado, I know everyone else has trotted out the old 'hero to zero' saying, but I think it's more than that, after Spain there were signs that
perhaps he had matured, could stay consistent, and (in his opinion) even mount a championship challenge - er, no! He showed signs of petulance, impatience and immaturity, and probably lost
all the new fans he might have gained after Spain. So, in my opinion, it goes beyond Reject of the Race and is more Reject of the Respect Earned Previously To The Race (ROTREPTTR).

I think he's powered into ROTY contention with his display this weekend.

ROTY might be a bit extreme because McLaren have pretty much got that sown up already

Maldonado for ROTR. A brainfade is one thing, but a brainfade involving an HRT is even more embarrasing.

Button was a candidate and Vergne was also, but that really wasn't his own fault.

I will say, for RoTR, Schumacher's luck. I haven't seen such a bad outbreak since Webber's some years ago.

I will also nominate Maldonado. For such high talking before the weekend, that was quite a fell...

Jenson Button: That was utterly shameful
Pastor Maldonado: That was utterly shameful

Just a thought - I've already had my say as to who I think ROTR should be, but, if Maldonado gets it, then Williams drivers will have had 3 ROTRs from 6 races (50% rate) - has anyone else
ever had a run like that? Plus if you add ROTY from the end of last year to the list it gets even worse ....

I do think the Pirelli nomination is justified. We knew they had the ability to prevent a procession single handedly but instead made it possible to go for 50 laps on one set of tyres. Dismal showing by them.

DRS was hardly talked about- maybe they should just allow it all the way around the track?

And if the start of the race was later it would take advantage of the mid-afternoon breakdowns of rain showers you get on the Cote D'Azur.

jackanderton wrote:I do think the Pirelli nomination is justified. We knew they had the ability to prevent a procession single handedly but instead made it possible to go for 50 laps on one set of tyres. Dismal showing by them.

I hope you realise that nominating Pirelli for having a durable tyre for once and giving a non lottery ranked race with the usual fastest drivers on top when they are receiving lots of stick for doing the opposite at the other tracks is just... Well... Wrong.

Unfortunately, Pirelli are now in such position that they will get slammed no matter what they do. How much longer will they manage to put up with this nonsense before leaving?

DanielPT wrote:
I hope you realise that nominating Pirelli for having a durable tyre for once and giving a non lottery ranked race with the usual fastest drivers on top when they are receiving lots of stick for doing the opposite at the other tracks is just... Well... Wrong.

Unfortunately, Pirelli are now in such position that they will get slammed no matter what they do. How much longer will they manage to put up with this nonsense before leaving?

If they dol leave, who would replace them? Michelin seems unlikely and Bridgestone probably wouldn't want to come back.

pasta_maldonado wrote:

DanielPT wrote:
I hope you realise that nominating Pirelli for having a durable tyre for once and giving a non lottery ranked race with the usual fastest drivers on top when they are receiving lots of stick for doing the opposite at the other tracks is just... Well... Wrong.

Unfortunately, Pirelli are now in such position that they will get slammed no matter what they do. How much longer will they manage to put up with this nonsense before leaving?

If they dol leave, who would replace them? Michelin seems unlikely and Bridgestone probably wouldn't want to come back.

Syron. They are cheap fine tyres!

DanielPT wrote:

pasta_maldonado wrote:

DanielPT wrote:
I hope you realise that nominating Pirelli for having a durable tyre for once and giving a non lottery ranked race with the usual fastest drivers on top when they are receiving lots of stick for doing the opposite at the other tracks is just... Well... Wrong.

Unfortunately, Pirelli are now in such position that they will get slammed no matter what they do. How much longer will they manage to put up with this nonsense before leaving?

If they dol leave, who would replace them? Michelin seems unlikely and Bridgestone probably wouldn't want to come back.

Syron. They are cheap fine tyres!

Maybe someopne like Contonental would get invloved, for the publicity

pasta_maldonado wrote:

DanielPT wrote:
I hope you realise that nominating Pirelli for having a durable tyre for once and giving a non lottery ranked race with the usual fastest drivers on top when they are receiving lots of stick for doing the opposite at the other tracks is just... Well... Wrong.

Unfortunately, Pirelli are now in such position that they will get slammed no matter what they do. How much longer will they manage to put up with this nonsense before leaving?

If they dol leave, who would replace them? Michelin seems unlikely and Bridgestone probably wouldn't want to come back.

DMACK is in the WRC as an FIA-approved supplier...

dr-baker wrote:

pasta_maldonado wrote:

DanielPT wrote:
I hope you realise that nominating Pirelli for having a durable tyre for once and giving a non lottery ranked race with the usual fastest drivers on top when they are receiving lots of stick for doing the opposite at the other tracks is just... Well... Wrong.

Unfortunately, Pirelli are now in such position that they will get slammed no matter what they do. How much longer will they manage to put up with this nonsense before leaving?

If they dol leave, who would replace them? Michelin seems unlikely and Bridgestone probably wouldn't want to come back.

DMACK is in the WRC as an FIA-approved supplier...

Well, lets just hope one of them come and free us from the devil incarnate that it is Pirelli. [\sarcasm]

Rotr 1.Pastor Maldonado
2. The "race" itself for being devoid of action.

Pastor Maldonado. The crash during practice was enough, but then he even blew the race which, with all the traditional Monégasque attrition that went on, he could've gotten points in.

Now, normally I'm not one for making satire against fellow forum members, but my nomination for Monaco ROTR goes to all the people who can't accept the Monaco Grand Prix for what it is, which is something different.

What I mean for that is, instead of calling for Monaco to be sacked from the calendar because the race doesn't have as much overtaking as any of the other races so far, just accept it as being part of what makes Monaco, Monaco. Has overtaking ever really been part of what makes Monaco special? No, it's always been the unique challenge of racing at high speed through narrow, bumpy, slippery streets, with the armco as reward for the slightest error. It's been about capitalising when others fall by the wayside, going as fast as possible without becoming another casualty, outsmarting the survivors left when it's pit stop time and reaping the reward. Just ask Olivier Panis about that . And the unique atmosphere surrounding the race as well.

Instead of grilling Pirelli because their tyres managed to last a large portion of the race, accept it for what it is. Monaco provides a unique set of circumstances in terms of setup, track surface, weather, speed, and tyre loadings that are not found anywhere else on the F1 calendar. It's not the tyre manufacturer's fault for this. They aren't magicians. And I'd be willing to bet that this won't happen at the Hungaroring.

If this race didn't quite meet expectations, then that's all the more reason to look forward to Canada, where normal service will likely resume in terms of the tyres, and with the added bonus of an attrition rate similar to Monaco.

tzerof1 wrote:Now, normally I'm not one for making satire against fellow forum members, but my nomination for Monaco ROTR goes to all the people who can't accept the Monaco Grand Prix for what it is, which is something different.

What I mean for that is, instead of calling for Monaco to be sacked from the calendar because the race doesn't have as much overtaking as any of the other races so far, just accept it as being part of what makes Monaco, Monaco. Has overtaking ever really been part of what makes Monaco special? No, it's always been the unique challenge of racing at high speed through narrow, bumpy, slippery streets, with the armco as reward for the slightest error. It's been about capitalising when others fall by the wayside, going as fast as possible without becoming another casualty, outsmarting the survivors left when it's pit stop time and reaping the reward. Just ask Olivier Panis about that . And the unique atmosphere surrounding the race as well.

Instead of grilling Pirelli because their tyres managed to last a large portion of the race, accept it for what it is. Monaco provides a unique set of circumstances in terms of setup, track surface, weather, speed, and tyre loadings that are not found anywhere else on the F1 calendar. It's not the tyre manufacturer's fault for this. They aren't magicians. And I'd be willing to bet that this won't happen at the Hungaroring.

If this race didn't quite meet expectations, then that's all the more reason to look forward to Canada, where normal service will likely resume in terms of the tyres, and with the added bonus of an attrition rate similar to Monaco.

Exactly. It's why I nominated everyone who was slating the grand prix as ROTR candidates.

tzerof1 wrote:Now, normally I'm not one for making satire against fellow forum members, but my nomination for Monaco ROTR goes to all the people who can't accept the Monaco Grand Prix for what it is, which is something different.

What I mean for that is, instead of calling for Monaco to be sacked from the calendar because the race doesn't have as much overtaking as any of the other races so far, just accept it as being part of what makes Monaco, Monaco. Has overtaking ever really been part of what makes Monaco special? No, it's always been the unique challenge of racing at high speed through narrow, bumpy, slippery streets, with the armco as reward for the slightest error. It's been about capitalising when others fall by the wayside, going as fast as possible without becoming another casualty, outsmarting the survivors left when it's pit stop time and reaping the reward. Just ask Olivier Panis about that . And the unique atmosphere surrounding the race as well.

Instead of grilling Pirelli because their tyres managed to last a large portion of the race, accept it for what it is. Monaco provides a unique set of circumstances in terms of setup, track surface, weather, speed, and tyre loadings that are not found anywhere else on the F1 calendar. It's not the tyre manufacturer's fault for this. They aren't magicians. And I'd be willing to bet that this won't happen at the Hungaroring.

If this race didn't quite meet expectations, then that's all the more reason to look forward to Canada, where normal service will likely resume in terms of the tyres, and with the added bonus of an attrition rate similar to Monaco.

BINGO! Someone give this man a beer

tzerof1 wrote:Now, normally I'm not one for making satire against fellow forum members, but my nomination for Monaco ROTR goes to all the people who can't accept the Monaco Grand Prix for what it is, which is something different.

what I mean for that is, instead of calling for Monaco to be sacked from the calendar because the race doesn't have as much overtaking as any of the other races so far, just accept it as being part of what makes Monaco, Monaco. Has overtaking ever really been part of what makes Monaco special? No, it's always been the unique challenge of racing at high speed through narrow, bumpy, slippery streets, with the armco as reward for the slightest error. It's been about capitalising when others fall by the wayside, going as fast as possible without becoming another casualty, outsmarting the survivors left when it's pit stop time and reaping the reward. Just ask Olivier Panis about that . And the unique atmosphere surrounding the race as well.

Instead of grilling Pirelli because their tyres managed to last a large portion of the race, accept it for what it is. Monaco provides a unique set of circumstances in terms of setup, track surface, weather, speed, and tyre loadings that are not found anywhere else on the F1 calendar. It's not the tyre manufacturer's fault for this. They aren't magicians. And I'd be willing to bet that this won't happen at the Hungaroring.

If this race didn't quite meet expectations, then that's all the more reason to look forward to Canada, where normal service will likely resume in terms of the tyres, and with the added bonus of an attrition rate similar to Monaco.

Excellent post. Totally agree. Monaco will always remain on the calendar and will always remain as one of my favourites.

tzerof1 wrote:Now, normally I'm not one for making satire against fellow forum members, but my nomination for Monaco ROTR goes to all the people who can't accept the Monaco Grand Prix for what it is, which is something different.

What I mean for that is, instead of calling for Monaco to be sacked from the calendar because the race doesn't have as much overtaking as any of the other races so far, just accept it as being part of what makes Monaco, Monaco. Has overtaking ever really been part of what makes Monaco special? No, it's always been the unique challenge of racing at high speed through narrow, bumpy, slippery streets, with the armco as reward for the slightest error. It's been about capitalising when others fall by the wayside, going as fast as possible without becoming another casualty, outsmarting the survivors left when it's pit stop time and reaping the reward. Just ask Olivier Panis about that . And the unique atmosphere surrounding the race as well.

Instead of grilling Pirelli because their tyres managed to last a large portion of the race, accept it for what it is. Monaco provides a unique set of circumstances in terms of setup, track surface, weather, speed, and tyre loadings that are not found anywhere else on the F1 calendar. It's not the tyre manufacturer's fault for this. They aren't magicians. And I'd be willing to bet that this won't happen at the Hungaroring.

If this race didn't quite meet expectations, then that's all the more reason to look forward to Canada, where normal service will likely resume in terms of the tyres, and with the added bonus of an attrition rate similar to Monaco.

I agree 100%

tzerof1 wrote:Now, normally I'm not one for making satire against fellow forum members, but my nomination for Monaco ROTR goes to all the people who can't accept the Monaco Grand Prix for what it is, which is something different.

What I mean for that is, instead of calling for Monaco to be sacked from the calendar because the race doesn't have as much overtaking as any of the other races so far, just accept it as being part of what makes Monaco, Monaco. Has overtaking ever really been part of what makes Monaco special? No, it's always been the unique challenge of racing at high speed through narrow, bumpy, slippery streets, with the armco as reward for the slightest error. It's been about capitalising when others fall by the wayside, going as fast as possible without becoming another casualty, outsmarting the survivors left when it's pit stop time and reaping the reward. Just ask Olivier Panis about that . And the unique atmosphere surrounding the race as well.

Instead of grilling Pirelli because their tyres managed to last a large portion of the race, accept it for what it is. Monaco provides a unique set of circumstances in terms of setup, track surface, weather, speed, and tyre loadings that are not found anywhere else on the F1 calendar. It's not the tyre manufacturer's fault for this. They aren't magicians. And I'd be willing to bet that this won't happen at the Hungaroring.

If this race didn't quite meet expectations, then that's all the more reason to look forward to Canada, where normal service will likely resume in terms of the tyres, and with the added bonus of an attrition rate similar to Monaco.

I think that you are correct. These F1 fans...

As said by a few, the marshalls.

First corner, drivers took advantage by going through pit exit to avoid first corner. No penalty.

I DO THAT IN F1 GAME AND AUTOMATICALLY GET A DRIVE THRU PENALTY!!!!

Also, repeated cutting of the Nouvelle chicane with no penalty at all.

Also, the weather! Wish it rained for last 15-20 mins, would have been mighty!!!

David AGS wrote:As said by a few, the marshalls.

First corner, drivers took advantage by going through pit exit to avoid first corner. No penalty.

I DO THAT IN F1 GAME AND AUTOMATICALLY GET A DRIVE THRU PENALTY!!!!

That's Codemasters godawful penalty system for you. From Vettel's onboard, he really didn't have a choice but to cut the corner.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

David AGS wrote:As said by a few, the marshalls.

First corner, drivers took advantage by going through pit exit to avoid first corner. No penalty.

I DO THAT IN F1 GAME AND AUTOMATICALLY GET A DRIVE THRU PENALTY!!!!

That's Codemasters godawful penalty system for you. From Vettel's onboard, he really didn't have a choice but to cut the corner.

I agree. It was either that or crashing into someone...

tzerof1 wrote:Now, normally I'm not one for making satire against fellow forum members, but my nomination for Monaco ROTR goes to all the people who can't accept the Monaco Grand Prix for what it is, which is something different.

What I mean for that is, instead of calling for Monaco to be sacked from the calendar because the race doesn't have as much overtaking as any of the other races so far, just accept it as being part of what makes Monaco, Monaco. Has overtaking ever really been part of what makes Monaco special? No, it's always been the unique challenge of racing at high speed through narrow, bumpy, slippery streets, with the armco as reward for the slightest error. It's been about capitalising when others fall by the wayside, going as fast as possible without becoming another casualty, outsmarting the survivors left when it's pit stop time and reaping the reward. Just ask Olivier Panis about that . And the unique atmosphere surrounding the race as well.

Instead of grilling Pirelli because their tyres managed to last a large portion of the race, accept it for what it is. Monaco provides a unique set of circumstances in terms of setup, track surface, weather, speed, and tyre loadings that are not found anywhere else on the F1 calendar. It's not the tyre manufacturer's fault for this. They aren't magicians. And I'd be willing to bet that this won't happen at the Hungaroring.

If this race didn't quite meet expectations, then that's all the more reason to look forward to Canada, where normal service will likely resume in terms of the tyres, and with the added bonus of an attrition rate similar to Monaco.

I can accept this, I love Monaco and I appreciate it's uniqueness and would never remove it from the calender. But was this race boring, Hell yes. Has Monaco produced good races before? Yes it has. Watching the Indy 500 and The Monaco grand Prix, the Indy was by far the more enjoyable race to watch. Personally Monaco Qualifying is the best Qualifying as the year, watching the pole laps over they years is a must. In short you can't really blame fans for saying it was a boring race when it was, the last 10 laps were interesting and so was Vettels counter strategy but when 5 of the top 6 have the same strategy with no possible overtaking that makes the race boring by default, so if anything ROTR should go to the teams for not trying anything radical, or you could even give ROTR to the boring race. You can't blame the fans for stating the pope is catholic.

Shadaza wrote:I can accept this, I love Monaco and I appreciate it's uniqueness and would never remove it from the calender. But was this race boring, Hell yes. Has Monaco produced good races before? Yes it has. Watching the Indy 500 and The Monaco Grand Prix, the Indy was by far the more enjoyable race to watch. Personally Monaco Qualifying is the best Qualifying as the year, watching the pole laps over they years is a must. In short you can't really blame fans for saying it was a boring race when it was, the last 10 laps were interesting and so was Vettels counter strategy but when 5 of the top 6 have the same strategy with no possible overtaking that makes the race boring by default, so if anything ROTR should go to the teams for not trying anything radical, or you could even give ROTR to the boring race. You can't blame the fans for stating the pope is catholic.

The obvious comparison to the Indy 500 is still quite interesting because in the end that was the problem: we had no Takuma Sato here. My biggest problem with the race was that it became clear some 10 laps from the end that nobody is going to try anything and just hope for something to fall in their laps. Had Sato or Schumacher been a part of that battle, we would have seen something - either a crash or a bathpluging beautiful overtake - because neither of the first six cars were flawless in these laps. While understandable and the wise thing to do, having both common sense and not quite enough opportunism combined do not make for too exciting racing.

madmark1974 wrote:Just a thought - I've already had my say as to who I think ROTR should be, but, if Maldonado gets it, then Williams drivers will have had 3 ROTRs from 6 races (50% rate) - has anyone else
ever had a run like that? Plus if you add ROTY from the end of last year to the list it gets even worse ....

Something is definitely wrong here. Williams had an absolute dismal 2011, now they've significantly raised their game, won a race after 8 year hiatus, yet they claim half of the ROTR so far and Maldonado is the top candidate for ROTY? Whereas Massa was spared a ROTR despite couple of helluva calls earlier this year and despite having an absolute shocker and the worst full-time season-performance since Ivan Capelli, I just don't get it. Is Massa having a better season than Maldonado? This forum seems to make excuses for certain drivers and kick others much quicker instead. If Maldonado gets his 2nd ROTR while Massa still has zero, I just don't understand this.

Vassago wrote:

madmark1974 wrote:Just a thought - I've already had my say as to who I think ROTR should be, but, if Maldonado gets it, then Williams drivers will have had 3 ROTRs from 6 races (50% rate) - has anyone else
ever had a run like that? Plus if you add ROTY from the end of last year to the list it gets even worse ....

Something is definitely wrong here. Williams had an absolute dismal 2011, now they've significantly raised their game, won a race after 8 year hiatus, yet they claim half of the ROTR so far and Maldonado is the top candidate for ROTY? Whereas Massa was spared a ROTR despite couple of helluva calls earlier this year and despite having an absolute shocker and the worst full-time season-performance since Ivan Capelli, I just don't get it. Is Massa having a better season than Maldonado? This forum seems to make excuses for certain drivers and kick others much quicker instead. If Maldonado gets his 2nd ROTR while Massa still has zero, I just don't understand this.

This might happen because ROTR is based on who does the most rejectful thing in a particular award while ROTY is awarded of those who were rubbish all season long relative to common expectations. With this you can have a team or a driver claiming many ROTR without wining ROTY in the end. Massa, for instance, didn't do anything particularly rejectful to get the award despite being god-awful until Monaco. Maldonado is prone to those lapses which are ROTR awarded while Massa is not, but this doesn't mean Massa is having a better season than the Reverend.

Pastor reckless antics are well known however, he's the modern version of Andrea de Cesaris. It's not like this comes as a real surprise to anyone (or shouldn't IMO). It's a shame F1R can't cut him any slack though. Plus the possible 3/6 ROTR for Williams are also very unfair, no way they're THAT bad this season.

Vassago wrote:Pastor reckless antics are well known however, he's the modern version of Andrea de Cesaris. It's not like this comes as a real surprise to anyone (or shouldn't IMO). It's a shame F1R can't cut him any slack though. Plus the possible 3/6 ROTR for Williams are also very unfair, no way they're THAT bad this season.

I think the ROTR are down to the fact that the drivers are self detonating the best car Williams have had in years. They have a fast car just two plonkers driving it.

Shadaza wrote:

Vassago wrote:Pastor reckless antics are well known however, he's the modern version of Andrea de Cesaris. It's not like this comes as a real surprise to anyone (or shouldn't IMO). It's a shame F1R can't cut him any slack though. Plus the possible 3/6 ROTR for Williams are also very unfair, no way they're THAT bad this season.

I think the ROTR are down to the fact that the drivers are self detonating the best car Williams have had in years. They have a fast car just two plonkers driving it.

They could have had many more points if Maldonado and Senna didn't keep pissing their chances away this year.

Vassago wrote:Pastor reckless antics are well known however, he's the modern version of Andrea de Cesaris. It's not like this comes as a real surprise to anyone (or shouldn't IMO). It's a shame F1R can't cut him any slack though. Plus the possible 3/6 ROTR for Williams are also very unfair, no way they're THAT bad this season.

And adding to what Shadaza and East Londoner just said, the fact that Pastor reckless antics are well known does not make them less rejectful.

I keep my vote in Dario Fra... ops, I mean Jenson Button. He was driving a McLaren and was beaten fair and square by Kovalainen in a Caterham.