Grand Prix Rejects

Stramala wrote:Ricciardo picked the best possible time to put in that drive. If he can pull off more of those for the rest of the year we might finally see the first STR driver since Vettel to get a promotion to the senior team.

Given the problems with Webber, they need a driver who is competent enough to score points, but not so quick as to give the team headaches with him fighting against Vettel. Basically a driver who is Massa, but maybe ever so slightly closer to the number one driver.

Alternatively they could choose the best possible lineup and try to poach Raikkonen from Lotus. But then, once again, there'd be the scenario of both drivers ignoring any requests from the team, and racing each other wherever possible.

Should Ricciardo's performance today turn out to be a flash in the pan however, and they also fail to secure Raikkonen, I think they could instead go for Nico Hulkenberg.

I don't think this necessitates its own thread however. I suggest it be merged with the 2014 Silly Season thread that already exists...

If it is indeed the case that Webber is moving to sports car racing, then Ricciardo might well have boosted his chances of getting a seat in the parent team on the back of this race, although the team will also be bearing in mind his performances from 2012. RBR know that they need a driver who can put in solid performances across an entire season for their standing in the WCC, so he'll need to maintain a consistent edge over Vergne if he has aspirations of moving up.

As for some of the other options, although the team have made some flattering comments about Kimi, I'd have to agree with Klon that such a pairing is difficult to imagine. RBR were founded for, and thrive on, publicity stunts and Kimi, as we well know, is not the sort of figure who would enjoy that at all: he seems more than content enough at Enstone, where they are willing to give him more leeway, a competitive car (he is currently only three points behind Vettel in the WDC) and a favoured status within the team (although it isn't always explicitly stated as such, he has always been the first driver to get upgrade packages within the team and the team have often done more to accommodate his requests than those of Grosjean, so there does seem to be some tacit bias towards him).
Hulkenberg, meanwhile, might be a touch problematic for the team - if he was a little too quick, then it might strain a few relations within the team too (would Vettel tolerate having a potentially more competitive team mate than Webber?).

Overall, I expect that the more likely scenario is that the team would seek to hire from within and pick one of the two Toro Rosso drivers, as I expect that they would probably fit the criterion of being quick enough but not too quick, with a reasonable amount of experience and young enough for the team to expect to be able to hire them for the long term, therefore keeping a stable line up for multiple years.

My prediction is that the sports car racing move never actually happens and Webber stays at RBR. Mostly because I couldn't decide which other driver it would be.

I think it would be pretty sad if he were now to leave F1 for sports cars. Stay and fight Mark, damn it! Stick it to the man.

Jocke1 wrote:I think it would be pretty sad if he were now to leave F1 for sports cars. Stay and fight Mark, damn it! Stick it to the man.

The major problem that he just isn't good enough to stick it to the man. Rebellion only has a point when you are able to win.

One could argue he was able only 21 days ago.

Klon wrote:

Jocke1 wrote:I think it would be pretty sad if he were now to leave F1 for sports cars. Stay and fight Mark, damn it! Stick it to the man.

.....Rebellion only has a point when you are able to win.....

has he already signed for Rebellion??

DG

I'd like to think Ricciardo would get it, if only so that Red Bull can still sell drinks in Australia

But I've been looking at their results last year, and barring the fact that Vergne did score more points, Ricciardo was much closer to him than I thought. He beat Vergne in races 8-7 at the end of the year, demolished him in quali, finished in the points more often (6-4, the last 5 of those in the space of 7 races from Spa to Yas Marina, and it could have been 6 from 7 if he hadn't had the fuel issue at Monza), didn't crash into people as much. Even this year, he was poor in Melbourne (but he's Aussie, so it should be expected), but at Sepang he was well ahead of Vergne before his exhaust stated to go, so should probably have scored at least one point there. And then we get Shanghai, where he showed what he can do.

Or am I just trying too hard to justify keeping him

Gian Carlo Minardi reckons he knows what's happening in the driver market. Jenson Button to take a sabattical? Kimi Räikkönen to return to McLaren (presumably so he can get an opportunity to give Sergio Pérez that punch)?

I think Gian Carlo Minardi needs to discover €5 down the back of his sofa and resurrect his own team.

Backmarker wrote:Gian Carlo Minardi reckons he knows what's happening in the driver market. Jenson Button to take a sabattical? Kimi Räikkönen to return to McLaren (presumably so he can get an opportunity to give Sergio Pérez that punch)?

I think Gian Carlo Minardi needs to discover €5 down the back of his sofa and resurrect his own team.

About the only thing I might agree with Minardi about would be that Kimi is likely to leave Lotus given that the team looks like it is in more severe financial trouble than had been feared. One of the causes of their losses increasing were increasing driver salaries, especially Kimi (he is a good driver, but his skills come with a hefty bill attached), so I imagine that the team might not be able to offer him quite as attractive a deal as some other major outfits might be able to do when his contract expires.
Still, I'm not sure where I can see Kimi going. It is true that the mechanics at McLaren still have some affection for him - they were reportedly cheering Kimi on in the Spanish GP when he was attacking Vettel - but I was under the impression that he was put off by the amount of publicity work he was expected to do for the team. Equally, Button is, I believe, currently locked into a long term deal with McLaren and seems to have the full support of the senior management, so I can't see him taking a sabbatical for any particular reason (and McLaren are probably unlikely to fire Perez just yet).

McLaren firing Perez makes no sense, especially with all of the Telmex rumours. Besides, he hasn't done too badly, given the difficulty of the McLaren car. With regards to Red Bull, could anyone see them trying to sign Hulkenburg? The move to Sauber isn't looking too good at the moment, and he showed some real pace in the Force India last year.

mario wrote:

Backmarker wrote:Gian Carlo Minardi reckons he knows what's happening in the driver market. Jenson Button to take a sabattical? Kimi Räikkönen to return to McLaren (presumably so he can get an opportunity to give Sergio Pérez that punch)?

I think Gian Carlo Minardi needs to discover €5 down the back of his sofa and resurrect his own team.

About the only thing I might agree with Minardi about would be that Kimi is likely to leave Lotus given that the team looks like it is in more severe financial trouble than had been feared. One of the causes of their losses increasing were increasing driver salaries, especially Kimi (he is a good driver, but his skills come with a hefty bill attached), so I imagine that the team might not be able to offer him quite as attractive a deal as some other major outfits might be able to do when his contract expires.
Still, I'm not sure where I can see Kimi going. It is true that the mechanics at McLaren still have some affection for him - they were reportedly cheering Kimi on in the Spanish GP when he was attacking Vettel - but I was under the impression that he was put off by the amount of publicity work he was expected to do for the team. Equally, Button is, I believe, currently locked into a long term deal with McLaren and seems to have the full support of the senior management, so I can't see him taking a sabbatical for any particular reason (and McLaren are probably unlikely to fire Perez just yet).

If Kimi leaves though, who would Lotus replace him with? Hulkenberg? Maybe a returning Kubica?

Ataxia wrote:If Kimi leaves though, who would Lotus replace him with? Hulkenberg? Maybe a returning Kubica?

If the problem's money, then someone with some. Charles Pic would be a decent choice - has money, is French (allowing them to drop Romain Grosjean for someone with even more money!).

But then that would be a huge setback for the team! The Hulk could do well [hopefully he only signed for 1 year with Sauber], but I feel Lotus would need a more established/experienced driver too.. Maybe massa can go there.

Rubens Barrichello is rumored to be able to aquire almost two million dollars in sponsorship money and he has experience ... what, let me have my delusions, will you?

Ataxia wrote:

mario wrote:

Backmarker wrote:Gian Carlo Minardi reckons he knows what's happening in the driver market. Jenson Button to take a sabattical? Kimi Räikkönen to return to McLaren (presumably so he can get an opportunity to give Sergio Pérez that punch)?

I think Gian Carlo Minardi needs to discover €5 down the back of his sofa and resurrect his own team.

About the only thing I might agree with Minardi about would be that Kimi is likely to leave Lotus given that the team looks like it is in more severe financial trouble than had been feared. One of the causes of their losses increasing were increasing driver salaries, especially Kimi (he is a good driver, but his skills come with a hefty bill attached), so I imagine that the team might not be able to offer him quite as attractive a deal as some other major outfits might be able to do when his contract expires.
Still, I'm not sure where I can see Kimi going. It is true that the mechanics at McLaren still have some affection for him - they were reportedly cheering Kimi on in the Spanish GP when he was attacking Vettel - but I was under the impression that he was put off by the amount of publicity work he was expected to do for the team. Equally, Button is, I believe, currently locked into a long term deal with McLaren and seems to have the full support of the senior management, so I can't see him taking a sabbatical for any particular reason (and McLaren are probably unlikely to fire Perez just yet).

If Kimi leaves though, who would Lotus replace him with? Hulkenberg? Maybe a returning Kubica?

Kubica, to my mind, is out of the question - he still seems to lack sufficient mobility in his wrist to be able to drive an F1 car for an extended period of time given how cramped most modern cockpits are. I could possibly see somebody like Hulkenberg being picked up - he would probably be reasonably affordable for the team (and, given their financial woes, that would be a major bonus) and likely to be fairly competitive, albeit occasionally coming across as temperamental (given some of the angry comments he has directed at the Sauber team over the radio).
That said, the possibility of seeing a pay driver at the team cannot be discounted - it is only a couple of years since Bruno Senna drove for them in a deal that was all about sponsorship, and I could see somebody like Pic, a driver who comes across as a solid enough driver with decent backing, possibly being picked up by them too.

One word: Kobayashi.

For someone who hates the commercial side of F1, I have seen Kimi Raikkonen in an awful lot of commercials. CLEAR, Rexona and even advertising a new Renault!

Autosport see Raikkonen heading to Red Bull, it was the feature article of today's magazine. Either way Raikkonen looks on the way out of Lotus which opens some interesting driver options, (Hulkenberg, Bianchi and Ferrari engines?)

Ferrari engines..

Must say, If I had to name teams I'd never expect to ever have ferrari (the enemy! ) engines, I'd name Mclaren, Williams and Lotus [mostly for nostalgia..it's not even Lotus nowaday hehe]. But still, Lotus Ferrari sounds so wrong!


Oh and a Hulkenberg - Kobayashi driver pairing would be amazing for the team!

It's time to set up the Kamui Kobayashi Komeback Korner!

LionZoo wrote:It's time to set up the Kamui Kobayashi Komeback Korner!

If he doesnt get a Ferrari race drive I can confidently say I will NEVER buy one of their poxy motor-vehicles. EVER.

Shadaza wrote:For someone who hates the commercial side of F1, I have seen Kimi Raikkonen in an awful lot of commercials. CLEAR, Rexona and even advertising a new Renault!

Autosport see Raikkonen heading to Red Bull, it was the feature article of today's magazine. Either way Raikkonen looks on the way out of Lotus which opens some interesting driver options, (Hulkenberg, Bianchi and Ferrari engines?)

If Lotus need a French driver, which I've heard rumoured, then Bianchi could be a logical choice.

andrew2209 wrote:

Shadaza wrote:For someone who hates the commercial side of F1, I have seen Kimi Raikkonen in an awful lot of commercials. CLEAR, Rexona and even advertising a new Renault!

Autosport see Raikkonen heading to Red Bull, it was the feature article of today's magazine. Either way Raikkonen looks on the way out of Lotus which opens some interesting driver options, (Hulkenberg, Bianchi and Ferrari engines?)

If Lotus need a French driver, which I've heard rumoured, then Bianchi could be a logical choice.

But Bianchi is currently tied to Ferrari, so that depends on the being willing to pay for a driver at a (potential) rival.

Backmarker wrote:

andrew2209 wrote:

Shadaza wrote:For someone who hates the commercial side of F1, I have seen Kimi Raikkonen in an awful lot of commercials. CLEAR, Rexona and even advertising a new Renault!

Autosport see Raikkonen heading to Red Bull, it was the feature article of today's magazine. Either way Raikkonen looks on the way out of Lotus which opens some interesting driver options, (Hulkenberg, Bianchi and Ferrari engines?)

If Lotus need a French driver, which I've heard rumoured, then Bianchi could be a logical choice.

But Bianchi is currently tied to Ferrari, so that depends on the being willing to pay for a driver at a (potential) rival.

But that's assuming Lotus keep the Renault engines for next year, which isn't a given anymore considering the financial trouble they're in.

Backmarker wrote:But Bianchi is currently tied to Ferrari, so that depends on the being willing to pay for a driver at a (potential) rival.

So was Perez.

Vettel confirmed at RBR until end of 2015. For 2014, I think whoever replaces Webber is significant (stating the obvious I know). If RBR go for Raikkonnen then it shows that they're a team who wants to have the strongest line-up possible and to see them race. If they choose either Ricciardo or JEV then, Im afraid, it only underlines what some suspect; its Vettels team and Vettel is the only one they want to win. Fair play, its their team to run how they wish.

As much as I love Ricciardo, I really hope it's Raikkonen - seeing Kimi racing Vettel in similar vehicles would be very entertaining.

Wonder if Kimi goes to Red Bull, Webber might get a chance at Lotus (if he doesn't retire). Might be Lotus' best option at getting an established top driver if Kubica is out of the question.

Total groundless speculation, but how about:

Button to Ferrari next year (remember you read it here first!),
Kimi to Red Bull
Massa to Lotus
Hulkenburg to McLaren.....

DG

After Australia:


After Spain:


Now, put two and two together. You heard it on Sniff Petrol first

Should be "Found: Pace: Call Red Bull Racing, ask for Webber"

Still, that is a stroke of genius

James1978 wrote:Wonder if Kimi goes to Red Bull, Webber might get a chance at Lotus (if he doesn't retire). Might be Lotus' best option at getting an established top driver if Kubica is out of the question.

The question is Webber's salary going to be low enough to take the ride or does he provide enough funds?

The germans just unveiled Webber's ride a few hours ago. Sounds like it will be ready in time for next season.....

If Raikkonen does leave Lotus and go to Red Bull, which I sincerely hope doesn't happen, what options are available to Lotus? Not a top driver, so who? Button? Massa?

Faustus wrote:If Raikkonen does leave Lotus and go to Red Bull, which I sincerely hope doesn't happen, what options are available to Lotus? Not a top driver, so who? Button? Massa?

From what I've heard, Maldonado looks to be a choice due to his huge PDVSA backing. I would assume that Grosjean must go too, as the Grosjean-Maldonado pairing would be nightmarish for any team. Neither driver is performing particularly well, but at least PDVSA has stabilised itself with Chavez's self-appointed successor at the helm, whereas Total (Grosjean's sponsor) allegedly have several outstanding payments to Lotus w.r.t. the sponsorship deal. So Lotus might go for a Maldonado-Valsecchi pairing (uninspiring), or a Maldonado-Sorensen pairing (risky), or could even try and take Hulkenberg or Massa (either one, considering the fact that it is looking likely that the 2nd Ferrari seat will be a fight between the two for next year).

I think that if Massa is to lose his Ferrari seat for next year, I think he would throw in the towel. He's been in F1 long enough and being the No. 2 Ferrari driver to Alonso I think has killed his pride in driving for Ferrari, which is where he wants to drive.

go_Rubens wrote:I think that if Massa is to lose his Ferrari seat for next year, I think he would throw in the towel. He's been in F1 long enough and being the No. 2 Ferrari driver to Alonso I think has killed his pride in driving for Ferrari, which is where he wants to drive.

Also even though it doesn't look like it Massa is 32 and actually older than Alonso by 3 months and he still looks like a fresh faced 25 year old debutant. He's been at the Prancing Horse for 8 seasons now which is nearly as long as Schumacher and i think its time to put someone else in the car. I always wanted to see Nico Rosberg in a Ferrari and I still believe it might happen even if he refuses it.

Kimi-ICE wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:I think that if Massa is to lose his Ferrari seat for next year, I think he would throw in the towel. He's been in F1 long enough and being the No. 2 Ferrari driver to Alonso I think has killed his pride in driving for Ferrari, which is where he wants to drive.

Also even though it doesn't look like it Massa is 32 and actually older than Alonso by 3 months and he still looks like a fresh faced 25 year old debutant. He's been at the Prancing Horse for 8 seasons now which is nearly as long as Schumacher and i think its time to put someone else in the car. I always wanted to see Nico Rosberg in a Ferrari and I still believe it might happen even if he refuses it.

If Massa left Ferrari but didn't retire from F1, I always wonder about where he would go. For some reason, I think it would be Williams or Caterham.

Kimi-ICE wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:I think that if Massa is to lose his Ferrari seat for next year, I think he would throw in the towel. He's been in F1 long enough and being the No. 2 Ferrari driver to Alonso I think has killed his pride in driving for Ferrari, which is where he wants to drive.

Also even though it doesn't look like it Massa is 32 and actually older than Alonso by 3 months and he still looks like a fresh faced 25 year old debutant

Say what? With that very rapidly receding hairline?

Faustus wrote:

Kimi-ICE wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:I think that if Massa is to lose his Ferrari seat for next year, I think he would throw in the towel. He's been in F1 long enough and being the No. 2 Ferrari driver to Alonso I think has killed his pride in driving for Ferrari, which is where he wants to drive.

Also even though it doesn't look like it Massa is 32 and actually older than Alonso by 3 months and he still looks like a fresh faced 25 year old debutant

Say what? With that very rapidly receding hairline?

According to Wiki Massa was born on 25 April 1981 compared to Alonso who was born on 29 July 1981 but while Alonso looks exactly like 32 Massa still looks like a young gun. Very Impressive in my view.

good_Ralf wrote:

Kimi-ICE wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:I think that if Massa is to lose his Ferrari seat for next year, I think he would throw in the towel. He's been in F1 long enough and being the No. 2 Ferrari driver to Alonso I think has killed his pride in driving for Ferrari, which is where he wants to drive.

Also even though it doesn't look like it Massa is 32 and actually older than Alonso by 3 months and he still looks like a fresh faced 25 year old debutant. He's been at the Prancing Horse for 8 seasons now which is nearly as long as Schumacher and i think its time to put someone else in the car. I always wanted to see Nico Rosberg in a Ferrari and I still believe it might happen even if he refuses it.

If Massa left Ferrari but didn't retire from F1, I always wonder about where he would go. For some reason, I think it would be Williams or Caterham.

I always thought that he'd try to reunite with Sauber but that'd probably never happen.