Grand Prix Rejects

So, what happens when Vettel wins from last and Fernando gets Grosjeaned on lap 1?

Cynon wrote:So, what happens when Vettel wins from last and Fernando gets Grosjeaned on lap 1?

I will piss myself with laughter and the board will explode.

Cynon wrote:So, what happens when Vettel wins from last and Fernando gets Grosjeaned on lap 1?

That would qualify as more interesting.

kostas22 wrote:YABBADABBADOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINGADIIIIIIIIIIIIIINGDIIIIIIIINGG!!!!!!!!!! LETS ALL HAVE 24 FINGERS OF VODKA IN CELEBRATION!!!

Hear hear.

Cynon wrote:So, what happens when Vettel wins from last and Fernando gets Grosjeaned on lap 1?

Not bloody likely with his extremely low top speed. As soon as he hits Kobayashi or Senna, he's going to be going absolutely nowhere until the pitstop, where he'll probably jump the pair of them. Then continue until he hits Perez. Where he will remain until the end of the race. I hope.

Now we will see just how good Vettel is at carving his way through the field. He's got the second-best car this weekend after all.

At least, this make a probably boring race in a good race, with vettel in last position. I hope Alonso retires, also. I don't want to see him winning this championship.

Dj_bereta wrote:At least, this make a probably boring race in a good race, with vettel in last position. I hope Alonso retires, also. I don't want to see him winning this championship.

Can someone explain to em why some people dislike Alonso? He doesn't strike me as an obvious person to receive hatred (for want of a better word)

"The Finger" is in last.

pasta_maldonado wrote:

Dj_bereta wrote:At least, this make a probably boring race in a good race, with vettel in last position. I hope Alonso retires, also. I don't want to see him winning this championship.

Can someone explain to em why some people dislike Alonso? He doesn't strike me as an obvious person to receive hatred (for want of a better word)

One could ask the same about Vettel (or any other driver for that matter).

Well, as for why I dislike Alonso, he is a sore loser and crybaby whenever things don't go his way (for example, Abu Dhabi 2010). He keeps downplaying other drivers' achievements (including those of Massa) and praising himself. In the rare situation that he makes a mistake, he blames other drivers for it (Suzuka this year). He has also been involved in quite a few controversies (Hungary 2007, Spygate, Crashgate and Hockenheim 2010). To be honest, I started to dislike Alonso when he took Kimi's seat.

pasta_maldonado wrote:

Dj_bereta wrote:At least, this make a probably boring race in a good race, with vettel in last position. I hope Alonso retires, also. I don't want to see him winning this championship.

Can someone explain to em why some people dislike Alonso? He doesn't strike me as an obvious person to receive hatred (for want of a better word)

Some people dislike Ferrari, others perceive Alonso as someone prone to tantrums, particularly after the season at McLaren alongside Hamilton. Although in my view, the behaviour of the two parties in the intervening period shows that Lewis is at least as volatile, if not more so, & puts in question exactly who could be responsible for the 2007 debacle.
To me, Alonso is a proper racing driver, fast, headstrong a bit temperamental but emerging as a strong team player in a way Lewis has yet to do.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

Cynon wrote:So, what happens when Vettel wins from last and Fernando gets Grosjeaned on lap 1?

Not bloody likely with his extremely low top speed. As soon as he hits Kobayashi or Senna, he's going to be going absolutely nowhere until the pitstop, where he'll probably jump the pair of them. Then continue until he hits Perez. Where he will remain until the end of the race. I hope.

Red Bull have announced that they have elected to start Vettel from the pit lane, so, thanks to the convoluted pit lane, it looks like he'll be some distance behind the tail end of the field before he even gets going.

Christian Horner said: “During the slow-down lap following the final run of Q3, Renault instructed to immediately stop Sebastian’s car on the circuit due to an issue with the fuel system.

“After speaking with the stewards, who accepted the situation of force majeure for technical reasons for the car to be stopped, unfortunately, for reasons yet to be fully understood, 850ml of the required one litre was pumped out of the car following post race checks.

“As a result, the FIA has excluded Sebastian from qualifying and we will withdraw the car from parc ferme in order to investigate further. Therefore Sebastian will start from the pit lane for tomorrow’s race. We will need to make the most of Mark’s strong front-row grid position and Sebastian will have a busy evening ahead of him.”

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/11/03/v ... -decision/

Now, I would assume that they are making additional modifications to Vettel's setup to make it easier for him to pass, although that might not necessarily be a straightforward change. With Red Bull traditionally electing to go for a relatively short 7th gear, Vettel could face severe problems getting past other cars down the straights - Kimi had a similar issue in India when he was constantly hitting the limiter and could not pass Massa, and it is possible that Vettel could face a similar situation in the race too (ironically, lengthening the DRS zone might make things worse for Vettel as he'd be hitting the limiter even earlier on the straights).

Added to that, Vettel is vulnerable because of that second DRS zone - he might find himself being passed by another car quite easily due to his low straight line speed, so it is possible that he'll struggle to make up ground (particularly if this is a one stop race, as many are predicting, since that means there won't be much that the team can do to adjust his strategy either). Vettel might have a very quick car, but most of that performance comes in the corners - unfortunately, asides from the straights there are few other places where you could realistically try to pass somebody (the turns in the first sector are too fast whilst the turns in the final sector are too acute and close together).

The only positive aspect for Vettel is that McLaren look more competitive this weekend (in Hamilton's hands, at least), as do Lotus, which might help minimise the damage to Vettel's points lead in the WDC. Actually, on a side note, what exactly was going on with Button today? I know that Hamilton normally has a slight advantage over him over a single lap, but on average that would usually be a tenth or two - today, though, Button was losing significant amounts of time, especially in the final sector (he was losing around 0.5s on average to Hamilton in that sector alone). Did Button have some sort of car problem during qualifying, or was it a set up related issue, because that is a more sizeable difference in performance than the times from free practise seemed to suggest.

Meatwad wrote:

pasta_maldonado wrote:

Dj_bereta wrote:At least, this make a probably boring race in a good race, with vettel in last position. I hope Alonso retires, also. I don't want to see him winning this championship.

Can someone explain to em why some people dislike Alonso? He doesn't strike me as an obvious person to receive hatred (for want of a better word)

One could ask the same about Vettel (or any other driver for that matter).

Well, as for why I dislike Alonso, he is a sore loser and crybaby whenever things don't go his way (for example, Abu Dhabi 2010). He keeps downplaying other drivers' achievements (including those of Massa) and praising himself. In the rare situation that he makes a mistake, he blames other drivers for it (Suzuka this year). He has also been involved in quite a few controversies (Hungary 2007, Spygate, Crashgate and Hockenheim 2010). To be honest, I started to dislike Alonso when he took Kimi's seat.

To be honest, it's the exact opposite for me. I used to really dislike Alonso when he was on his way to his double world championship (I was a big Kimi fan back in the day), because of the amount of whining he'd usually do. But this season has really changed my perspective of him. That Ferrari had no right whatsoever to be fighting for podiums in the early part of the season, yet he dragged it kicking and screaming to the front. And for that, he deserves this championship a heck of a lot more than Finger Boy. Championships that are won by fighting, not by driving off into the distance, are far more valued in my book.

This is how I thought things would unfold:

Sebastian Vettel stopped out on track after qualifying, unable to get back to the pits, probably due to not having enough fuel in the car. When the car was recovered, Vettel and Christian Horner were called into the stewards' office, and asked to explain their actions. They admitted that if Vettel had driven round the rest of the circuit they would not have had enough fuel in the car to give an official sample. Knowing what had happened before in Barcelona, the stewards took the appropriate action, and awarded a go-to-the-back-of-the-grid penalty...

...to Lewis Hamilton.

Meatwad wrote:He keeps downplaying other drivers' achievements (including those of Massa) and praising himself.

... yeah, I know Alonso can be bit much sometimes, but I don't think he's ever actually done anything like that.

East Londoner wrote:To be honest, it's the exact opposite for me. I used to really dislike Alonso when he was on his way to his double world championship (I was a big Kimi fan back in the day), because of the amount of whining he'd usually do. But this season has really changed my perspective of him. That Ferrari had no right whatsoever to be fighting for podiums in the early part of the season, yet he dragged it kicking and screaming to the front. And for that, he deserves this championship a heck of a lot more than Finger Boy. Championships that are won by fighting, not by driving off into the distance, are far more valued in my book.

That's exactly how it's been for me. There have been several drivers who have all had chances at taking control of the championship , but none of them could wrestle it away from Alonso because he just would not give up. On balance the Ferrari has been a great car, but you always sensed that Alonso was pushing 110% to get those results... then along comes Vettel and he wins 4 in a row in his usual, easy-looking way and it's like everything Alonso did was for nothing. Massive buzzkill.

Maybe I will watch the race tomorrow after all.

Combined with Inter Milan destroying the zebrette scum in Torino, this has been a great day for me. Hopefully tomorrow as Vettel is scything through the field, Schumacher puts him in a wall

Back-to-back 14th grid position for Schumacher
"I got confused" he said.

Jocke1 wrote:Back-to-back 14th grid position for Schumacher
"I got confused" he said.

How the mighty have fallen

Surely Vettel will be taking a longer 7th gear into the race? As Mario pointed out, he's got two places to pass on the track and they're both DRS assisted. We saw last year how one car would pass another in the first zone, only to be re-passed in the second. I know the likes of Marussia, HRT, Caterham and Toro Rosso (obviously) wont put up a fight with Vettel, but he's going to be finding it vey hard to pass the likes of Maldonado, Sauber and FIndia tomorrow. Especially if a few of them are scrapping over P8, P9 or P10.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

East Londoner wrote:To be honest, it's the exact opposite for me. I used to really dislike Alonso when he was on his way to his double world championship (I was a big Kimi fan back in the day), because of the amount of whining he'd usually do. But this season has really changed my perspective of him. That Ferrari had no right whatsoever to be fighting for podiums in the early part of the season, yet he dragged it kicking and screaming to the front. And for that, he deserves this championship a heck of a lot more than Finger Boy. Championships that are won by fighting, not by driving off into the distance, are far more valued in my book.

That's exactly how it's been for me. There have been several drivers who have all had chances at taking control of the championship , but none of them could wrestle it away from Alonso because he just would not give up. On balance the Ferrari has been a great car, but you always sensed that Alonso was pushing 110% to get those results... then along comes Vettel and he wins 4 in a row in his usual, easy-looking way and it's like everything Alonso did was for nothing. Massive buzzkill.

Exactly my thoughts on the matter - apart from the fact I think the Ferrari has not been a great car, it hasn't been able to be developed, and its limitations are all too apparent now. But put it another way, if the season had remained up-and-down all year and Vettel came through to win in those circumstances, then fair play to him. But it's as if the first two-thirds of the season was one championship - which to my mind Alonso clearly won whichever way you look at it; this back end of the championship has been like a completely different championship, and if Vettel creams the field I think it's a real pity that Alonso's efforts throughout will go unrewarded.

To be completely fair about it, the irony is that the ease with which Vettel has dominated the back end of the championship will also mean that many will downplay how - Alonso aside - Vettel was also quite excellent in a car that was better than the Ferrari but still subject to the ups and downs like the rest of the field. The way Vettel maximised his results on occasions was quite superb, and I thought Seb was driving better than in 2010 or 2011. This temporary setback in Abu Dhabi aside, if he nevertheless waltzes to the title, many will overlook that as well.

AdrianSutil wrote:Surely Vettel will be taking a longer 7th gear into the race? As Mario pointed out, he's got two places to pass on the track and they're both DRS assisted. We saw last year how one car would pass another in the first zone, only to be re-passed in the second. I know the likes of Marussia, HRT, Caterham and Toro Rosso (obviously) wont put up a fight with Vettel, but he's going to be finding it vey hard to pass the likes of Maldonado, Sauber and FIndia tomorrow. Especially if a few of them are scrapping over P8, P9 or P10.

I don't think he's allowed to change his gear ratios - he's stuck with the the lowest top speed of anyone. It's going to be a long day for Vettel, methinks.

Well, if he starts from the pitlane he gets exceptions to the normal parc ferme rules from what I know. However, I cannot tell whether he can actually have changes done to his gearbox setup. If he cannot, it might actually be difficult for him to do anything of value tomorrow unless he either risks a lot or invents new overtaking spots.

Klon wrote:Well, if he starts from the pitlane he gets exceptions to the normal parc ferme rules from what I know. However, I cannot tell whether he can actually have changes done to his gearbox setup. If he cannot, it might actually be difficult for him to do anything of value tomorrow unless he either risks a lot or invents new overtaking spots.

Both of which are not normal Vettel traits

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

AdrianSutil wrote:Surely Vettel will be taking a longer 7th gear into the race? As Mario pointed out, he's got two places to pass on the track and they're both DRS assisted. We saw last year how one car would pass another in the first zone, only to be re-passed in the second. I know the likes of Marussia, HRT, Caterham and Toro Rosso (obviously) wont put up a fight with Vettel, but he's going to be finding it vey hard to pass the likes of Maldonado, Sauber and FIndia tomorrow. Especially if a few of them are scrapping over P8, P9 or P10.

I don't think he's allowed to change his gear ratios - he's stuck with the the lowest top speed of anyone. It's going to be a long day for Vettel, methinks.

If I am reading the Sporting Regulations correctly, the teams have to nominate their gear ratio choice for the weekend within two hours of the end of the second practise session or face a penalty. I believe that you can then change your gear ratios at a later time, but that would attract a five place grid penalty (the passage - 28.6 a) - is slightly ambiguous as it refers to changing the gearbox and putting in a different set of gear ratios to the ones originally nominated, which would earn you two separate grid penalties (one for the gearbox change and one for using different ratios)).

Now, in principle Red Bull could chose to change Vettel's gearbox and alter the gear ratios - Vettel can't lose any more positions given he is now starting from the pit lane, and since the car has been withdrawn from Parc Ferme Red Bull can make those changes anyway (doing so would probably cost them one of their permitted curfew exemptions, though, and they have said that they want to use them as carefully and strategically as possible).
Whether it would be practical to do so, though, is another matter - they would probably have optimised their car and strategy around being at or near the front, so it is possible that they might not even have a suitable alternative 7th gear.

The Curse of Enoch strikes again! Just to show how staggering the effect is:

Before infamous Webber column was posted, Mark Webber had scored 116 points following the British Grand Prix over a total of nine rounds. In the eight races since, he has scored 51 points.

Since Enoch's Perez column was posted, Perez has gone crash, eleventh, crash. Kobayashi, who was also mentioned, got a podium but collided with Button in Korea and is now in danger of losing his job (Hulkenberg was signed).

Since Enoch wrote a column about Pedro, HRT has begun to increase Ma-Qing Hua's role in the team and he has failed to finish the last two races.

I don't think the curse has affected Grosjean but I think he's already been cursed enough with all of his first-lap collisions.

Now that Enoch has written something about Vettel, he gets dropped to the back of the grid immediately.

tristan1117 wrote:The Curse of Enoch strikes again! Just to show how staggering the effect is:

Before infamous Webber column was posted, Mark Webber had scored 116 points following the British Grand Prix over a total of nine rounds. In the eight races since, he has scored 51 points.

Since Enoch's Perez column was posted, Perez has gone crash, eleventh, crash. Kobayashi, who was also mentioned, got a podium but collided with Button in Korea and is now in danger of losing his job (Hulkenberg was signed).

Since Enoch wrote a column about Pedro, HRT has begun to increase Ma-Qing Hua's role in the team and he has failed to finish the last two races.

I don't think the curse has affected Grosjean but I think he's already been cursed enough with all of his first-lap collisions.

Now that Enoch has written something about Vettel, he gets dropped to the back of the grid immediately.

Enoch, can you please start writing about football and how great a team Juventus are?

Dj_bereta wrote:At least, this make a probably boring race in a good race, with vettel in last position. I hope Vettel retires, also. I don't want to see him winning this championship.

Fixed.

tristan1117 wrote:The Curse of Enoch strikes again! Just to show how staggering the effect is:

I don't think the curse has affected Grosjean but I think he's already been cursed enough with all of his first-lap collisions.

Ah,Enoch was writing about how Grosjean was a first-lap nutcase.The curse can have a reverse effect too.Since he was(or at least I think he was) writing about all of Grosjean's incidents,now how many crashes has Grosjean been involved in since the article was posted?

mario wrote:Now, in principle Red Bull could chose to change Vettel's gearbox and alter the gear ratios - Vettel can't lose any more positions given he is now starting from the pit lane, and since the car has been withdrawn from Parc Ferme Red Bull can make those changes anyway (doing so would probably cost them one of their permitted curfew exemptions, though, and they have said that they want to use them as carefully and strategically as possible).
Whether it would be practical to do so, though, is another matter - they would probably have optimised their car and strategy around being at or near the front, so it is possible that they might not even have a suitable alternative 7th gear.

With only a couple of races left and Vettel having to start from the back of the grid - I think this could be one of those times where Red Bull decide to use their cerfew joker! I think this would be a good time to think strategically!


A couple of tweets from people like Andrew Benson have said that "the FIA have confirmed that Redbull have changed the gearbox, gear ratios and suspension setup of the car to maximise overtaking opportunities". Though none of the usual sources have confirmed this yet, but it seemed like a pretty obvious choice for Red Bull to do this anyway!

If the Twittermill is to be believed (Andrew Benson), the FIA have confirmed that VET has changed gearbox, ratios & suspension set up.

Edit: Now on Autosport

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104014

eagleash wrote:If the Twittermill is to be believed (Andrew Benson), the FIA have confirmed that VET has changed gearbox, ratios & suspension set up.

The FIA have indeed published confirmation of those changes:

Technical Report
The following part has been replaced during the Parc Fermé today by the Red Bull Racing team:

Car 01: Gearbox

The gearbox has been replaced with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request from the team concerned, this being in accordance with Article 34.1 of the 2012 Formula One Sporting Regulations. But this gearbox change was before the five consecutive Events expired. Therefore this is not in compliance with Article 28.6a of the 2012 Formula One Sporting Regulations.

Further the new gearbox has different ratios fitted than declared Friday after P2. Also changes to the suspension set-up are made on car number 01.

Due to the different gear ratios been fitted and the suspension set-up changes car number 01 should now be required to start from the pit lane according to Article 34.5 of the 2012 Formula One Sporting Regulations.

I am referring these matters to the stewards for their consideration.

The FIA Formula 1 Technical Delegate

Jo Bauer

Why was Jake Humphrey just channeling David Attenborough when describing Vettel in the pits?

Wow DC and Newey comparing red Bull to Leyton House!

You know, not being able to receive any TV programms has its merit, plus having a fast internet connection has its merits. I don't have to bother with RTL.

BTW, who does commentary on Sky Sports F1 and who does on BBC 5 live?

Sky F1 is David croft and Martin brundle, five live is usually james Allen and Jaime algersuari, not sure if they are this weekend though

sswishbone wrote:Sky F1 is David croft and Martin brundle, five live is usually james Allen and Jaime algersuari, not sure if they are this weekend though

Algy's left to concentrate on his comeback, think it's Legard and John Watson today.

GwilymJJames wrote:

sswishbone wrote:Sky F1 is David croft and Martin brundle, five live is usually james Allen and Jaime algersuari, not sure if they are this weekend though

Algy's left to concentrate on his comeback, think it's Legard and John Watson today.

Okay, I'll...urm...prefer Sky over the BBC crew.

Well Eddie reckons Vettel will come 8th, not a bad guess in my view. Question is whether the reverend and first lap nutcase will throw cats amongst pigeons

One of the HRT's stalled. It's De La Rosa! The Curse strikes again... Hoping for a John Watson-esque comeback for Vettel to make the race slightly interesting.

Good god now THAT is utterly rejectful! Rubbish!!!

Nice work there HRT. How times have you done this now, 55?

Webber shocking start! Alonso IIDOTR for that pass at Aba dabby