Grand Prix Rejects

Toro Rosso with many accidents and both retiring or Grosjean who is actually I hate to admit it but slower then Piquet but then again with the testing ban and all that.

Jensen Button is without doubt ROTR despite claiming a point. He bleated on all weekend about being competitive, having the car to do the job, getting a good start etc. He gets a grid penalty, has a dreadful start and blunders his way to a point almost chucks it away claims he will get another then doesn't.

And after all that in his post race interview says this weekend was all about grabbing points.

If Jensen lost his bottle mid season I don't see how he'll keep cool for the next two races.

Button will be fine. The pressure is on Barrichello and Vettel despite what Christian Horner says; they need to score seven and eight points respectively more than Button in each race just to match him. And even then, they'll still lose to him because he has more wins. Whatever happens in Brazil, he'll have a four-point lead going into Abu Dhabi. Hell, he only needs to finish fourth to seal it; the others seriously need some results to go their way. Sure, it would be nice to see Button sea is title with back-to-back wins, but the Brawn is no longer the best car on the grid. Red Bull and McLaren are probably both better, which places Button fourth as best since Kovalainen is useless.

Button has said that if he has to win by getting one point in Abu Dhabi, he will. Now, we all love somebody who pushes for that extra place like Hamilton did in Monza, but Button can't afford to do that. He's taking a very smart approach: he's going to let the title come to him, and when the opportunity presents itself he's going to seize it. I think a lot of people are being overly-critical simply because this his "first" season at the top (people seem to forget 2004, when he was the best non-Ferrari). If it were Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkonen or Massa we were talking about, everyone would be applauding him for having banked vital points throughout the second half of the season and retaining a firm grip on the title lead despite not having the best car. It reeks of double-standard from fans.

Jenson will be a worthy champion. And given that the Brawn is no longer the best car and that he's had to fight over solitary points simply to keep himself alive that little bit longer, I'd say he's worthier than Lewis Hamilton, who ahd been gifted with the best car on the grid in both 2007 and 2008. It's pretty telling that every other driver who has fought for a championship or won one - Button, Alonso, Massa, Vettel, Barrichello, Raikkonen - all had to deal with bad cars before they got good ones.

Captain Hammer wrote:I'd say he's worthier than Lewis Hamilton, who ahd been gifted with the best car on the grid in both 2007 and 2008.

The Ferrari was the best car in 08 and was a match for the McLaren in 07. He was not 'gifted' anything. He is at McLaren because hw showed enough talent and ability to warrant his place in the team. His subsequent performances suggest the faith that was placed in him was justified.

It's too easy to bash Hamilton in this way. If anyone has been gifted a championship winning car it's Button this year. That doesn't make him a less deserving champion, he's been given a chance and he's (so far) taken it. But as of the end of 2008 the only way Button was going to get in a championship winning car was in circumstances such as these.

I generally agree with your analysis Captain. After reading this and another of your recent posts on McLaren, may I suggest a one-liner on the rantbox, to let it out of your system?

fjackdaw wrote:The museli I had for breakfast. It wasn't very nice. What, there was a Grand Prix?

noisebox wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:I'd say he's worthier than Lewis Hamilton, who ahd been gifted with the best car on the grid in both 2007 and 2008.

The Ferrari was the best car in 08 and was a match for the McLaren in 07. He was not 'gifted' anything. He is at McLaren because hw showed enough talent and ability to warrant his place in the team. His subsequent performances suggest the faith that was placed in him was justified.

Then McLaren was second-bst. The point is that, up until now, Hamilton had never been in a car that was anything less than one of the best two on the grid. And that's why I think he's one of the lesser champions: he's never really known what it's like to struggle, never had to go a year where he has been forced to watch everyone else get away from hm. So I doubt he can claim he appreciates it as much as the others. And that, I think, really draws something out of a driver. Driving a difficult car is a better indicator of a driver's ability than driving a good one; given that he's come off the back of two incredibly difficult seasons where he has had to drive two of the worst cars ever seen in Formula One, I think Button will appreciate his title more than anyone has before him. I think you're right in saying that he wouldn't have had a shot at the title otherwise, but how many drivers can you think of would stay with a team in Honda's situation at the end of 2008? The Hamiltons, Alonsos, and Raikkonens of te grid would be some of the first off the stricken ship. Button and Barrichello have both proven their loyalty a hundred times over; both are two of the most deserving drivers whn it comes to wining a World Championship.

Mark Webbers luck for causing him to pit a lot, giving us the feeling that we were back in the early 90s when cars would be a few laps down by the fifth lap.

Sebastien Buemi for hitting a poor defenseless bit of wall seven times in qualifying, baulking a BMW and causing some yellow flags that tripped up several drivers in qualifying - and then disappearing in the race long before the car gave up on him.

I agree about Button being a worthy champion. Lots of people have been complaining that he's not - but a more worthy champion would be winning it right now, wouldn't they?

It's all psychology. Win the first six races, you're not a worthy champion; win the last six and you are. In the end, all the matters is the points. Barring cheating or dodgy stewarding, whoever scores the most is the worthiest winner.

Jordan192 wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

Ross Prawn wrote:Ross Brawn - for a crap qualifying strategy, which blew away the race, and maybe the championship.

Nope. Brawn need just one point to seal the constructors' championship.

Not just that, but even if Brawn were to totally strike out from here on in, Red Bull need to 1-2 (simply winning wouldn't be enough) both remaining races. and that just isn't going to happen.

Yep, I know the maths. But its starting to feel a bit like the McLaren campaign of a couple of years ago. Brawn keep making silly mistakes that give hope to their competitors. And Vettel with a bit of hope and encouragement looks very dangerous to me.

Sure Brawn will get and derserve the constructors championship. But the drivers still feels very open to me. Brawn could and should have locked everyone else out this weekend.

Captain Hammer wrote:The point is that, up until now, Hamilton had never been in a car that was anything less than one of the best two on the grid.

What about the first half of this season...?

Captain Hammer wrote:

noisebox wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:I'd say he's worthier than Lewis Hamilton, who ahd been gifted with the best car on the grid in both 2007 and 2008.

The Ferrari was the best car in 08 and was a match for the McLaren in 07. He was not 'gifted' anything. He is at McLaren because hw showed enough talent and ability to warrant his place in the team. His subsequent performances suggest the faith that was placed in him was justified.

Then McLaren was second-bst. The point is that, up until now, Hamilton had never been in a car that was anything less than one of the best two on the grid. And that's why I think he's one of the lesser champions: he's never really known what it's like to struggle, never had to go a year where he has been forced to watch everyone else get away from hm. So I doubt he can claim he appreciates it as much as the others. And that, I think, really draws something out of a driver. Driving a difficult car is a better indicator of a driver's ability than driving a good one; given that he's come off the back of two incredibly difficult seasons where he has had to drive two of the worst cars ever seen in Formula One, I think Button will appreciate his title more than anyone has before him. I think you're right in saying that he wouldn't have had a shot at the title otherwise, but how many drivers can you think of would stay with a team in Honda's situation at the end of 2008? The Hamiltons, Alonsos, and Raikkonens of te grid would be some of the first off the stricken ship. Button and Barrichello have both proven their loyalty a hundred times over; both are two of the most deserving drivers whn it comes to wining a World Championship.

Whoever wins this year would be a worthy champion. No-one has had a clear car advantage all season, and they've all had to fight for it. I'd like to see Jenson take it, but Rubens or Vettel would also be ok.

noisebox wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:The point is that, up until now, Hamilton had never been in a car that was anything less than one of the best two on the grid.

What about the first half of this season...?

I'm counting seasons in one go. 2007, then 2008. 2009 isn't finished yet - there's still two races and a lot can happen; the McLaren is only good on certain types of circuit - and so I'll review it once it's done.

Captain Hammer wrote:

noisebox wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:The point is that, up until now, Hamilton had never been in a car that was anything less than one of the best two on the grid.

What about the first half of this season...?

I'm counting seasons in one go. 2007, then 2008. 2009 isn't finished yet - there's still two races and a lot can happen; the McLaren is only good on certain types of circuit - and so I'll review it once it's done.

But, as you say on certain circuits that is a bad car, so he has exerienced it.

Viatantonio Liuzzi. Ok, I'm not really being serious with this nomination, but hear me out! You see, thanks to his finishing 14th at Suzuka, Liuzzi has bumped reject hero Luca Badoer to 22nd in the driver's championship! Now the poor guy is only leading Ro Gro and Jiame Alguersuari...

"Fortunately", given their performance (and luck) so far, I can see Badoer holding on to 22nd for the remaining two races.