Grand Prix Rejects

Bleu wrote:Williams duo's qualifying battle in 2002 was quite strange.

Over the season, JPM won the battle 9-8. That's pretty close. The strange thing is that Montoya managed to get 7 pole positions, so he was faster of the two only twice when he was not on the pole. Those were 2nd place in Sepang and 4th place in Indianapolis.

Meanwhile, when Ralf was faster, he didn't get a pole, and even on the front row he was only twice. (Austria and Germany)

This shoes some inconsistency at Williams in '02. You wonder what was up...

go_Rubens wrote:

Bleu wrote:Williams duo's qualifying battle in 2002 was quite strange.

Over the season, JPM won the battle 9-8. That's pretty close. The strange thing is that Montoya managed to get 7 pole positions, so he was faster of the two only twice when he was not on the pole. Those were 2nd place in Sepang and 4th place in Indianapolis.

Meanwhile, when Ralf was faster, he didn't get a pole, and even on the front row he was only twice. (Austria and Germany)

This shoes some inconsistency at Williams in '02. You wonder what was up...

What was up was that they had two drivers who were not the complete package.

Did Ralf even have a package? I believe Cora had the package in the family.

I am trying to figure out which 3 drivers have been on the podium together the most often.

My suspicion is it will be Michael Schumacher along with some combination of drivers from the late 90's early 2000's. (Coulthard, Hakkinen, Barrichello?)

Shadaza wrote:I am trying to figure out which 3 drivers have been on the podium together the most often.

My suspicion is it will be Michael Schumacher along with some combination of drivers from the late 90's early 2000's. (Coulthard, Hakkinen, Barrichello?)

Here is 2003-2013 (I will post the rest later):



1. Vettel / Alonso / Webber - 11 times

2. Button / Webber / Vettel - 7 times

3. Alonso / Massa / Raikkonen - 6 times


4. Vettel / Button / Alonso - 6 times

5. Raikkonen / Alonso / Hamilton - 5 times

6. Schumacher / Alonso / Raikkonen - 5 times


7. Massa / Alonso / Hamilton - 5 times

8. Massa / Hamilton / Raikkonen - 5 times

9. Schumacher / Barrichello / Raikkonen - 5 times



10. Montoya / Raikkonen / Alonso - 4 times

11. Schumacher / Barrichello / Button - 4 times

12. Schumacher / Barrichello / Alonso - 4 times

13. Button / Vettel / Hamilton - 4 times



then there is too many to mention with 3 or less...

Shadaza wrote:I am trying to figure out which 3 drivers have been on the podium together the most often.

My suspicion is it will be Michael Schumacher along with some combination of drivers from the late 90's early 2000's. (Coulthard, Hakkinen, Barrichello?)

Vettel Webber and Alonso have shared the podium 11 times of the current field

Spain 10 (WEB ALO VET)
Hungary 10 (WEB ALO VET)
Singapore 10 (ALO VET WEB)
Japan 10 (VET WEB ALO)
Brazil 10 (VET WEB ALO)
Turkey 11 (VET WEB ALO)
Europe 11 (VET ALO WEB)
Britain 11 (ALO VET WEB)
Britain 12 (WEB ALO VET)
Korea 12 (VET WEB ALO)
India 12 (VET ALO WEB)

The podium order VET WEB ALO has happened 4 times alongside Senna Prost and Boutsen. Also happening 4 times is Hakkinen Coulthard and Schumacher and also Schumacher Coulthard and Barrichello

Jocke1 wrote:

Shadaza wrote:I am trying to figure out which 3 drivers have been on the podium together the most often.

My suspicion is it will be Michael Schumacher along with some combination of drivers from the late 90's early 2000's. (Coulthard, Hakkinen, Barrichello?)

Here is 2003-2013 (I will post the rest later):



1. Vettel / Alonso / Webber - 11 times

2. Button / Webber / Vettel - 7 times

3. Alonso / Massa / Raikkonen - 6 times


4. Vettel / Button / Alonso - 6 times

5. Raikkonen / Alonso / Hamilton - 5 times

6. Schumacher / Alonso / Raikkonen - 5 times


7. Massa / Alonso / Hamilton - 5 times

8. Massa / Hamilton / Raikkonen - 5 times

9. Schumacher / Barrichello / Raikkonen - 5 times



10. Montoya / Raikkonen / Alonso - 4 times

11. Schumacher / Barrichello / Button - 4 times

12. Schumacher / Barrichello / Alonso - 4 times

13. Button / Vettel / Hamilton - 4 times



then there is too many to mention with 3 or less...

I'll name some

Rosberg Vettel Webber has happened Twice (Malaysia 2010 and Monaco 2013)
We've only had 1 race where Vettel Hamilton and Alonso were on the podium together (USA 2012)
Hamilton Alonso Webber has happened Once (Germany 2011)
So has Alonso Massa Webber (Europe 2007)
Hamilton Raikkonen Webber (Hungary 2009)
Schumacher Hakkinen and Barrichello only happened Once (Britain 2001)
Massa Hamilton Kubica happened Twice (Monaco 2008 Europe 2008)

Michael Schumacher, David Coulthard and Mika Hakkinen shared 11 podiums:

Australia '97
Brazil '98
Spain '98
Austria '98
Luxembourg '98
Spain '99
San Marino '00
Great Britain '00
Hungary '00
Japan '00
USA '01

The Schumacher Brothers and Barrichello shared 4 podiums (Australia 2000 France 2001 San Marino 2002 Hungary 2002) If you count Canada 2004 where Ralf was disqualified it should be 5.

The Schumacher Brothers and Montoya shared 4 podiums (Malaysia 2002 Germany 2002 Canada 2003 France 2003)

There have been several races where the same drivers finish on the podium for two successive races or more.

Since 1998:

France and Britain 1998 - M Schumacher, Häkkinen and Irvine

Malaysia and Japan 1999 - Häkkinen, M Schumacher and Irvine

San Marino and Britain 2000 - Coulthard, M Schumacher and Häkkinen

France, Austria and Germany 2000 - Coulthard, Häkkinen and Barrichello

Belgium and Italy 2000 - Häkkinen, M Schumacher and R Schumacher

Malaysia 2000, Australia and Malaysia 2001 - M Schumacher, Barrichello and Coulthard

Europe and Canada 2004 - M Schumacher, Barrichello and Button (although Ralf and Monty finished ahead of Button in Montreal before their DSQ)

Britain and Canada 2006 - Alonso, M Schumacher and Räikkönen (worse still, the top five finished in exactly the same order for those races with 1) Alonso 2) M Schumacher 3) Räikkönen 4) Fisichella 5) Massa)

Australia and Malaysia 2007 - Räikkönen, Alonso and Hamilton

Spain and Monaco 2007 - Alonso, Hamilton and Massa

China and Brazil 2007 - Räikkönen, Massa and Alonso

Spain and Turkey 2008 - Massa, Räikkönen and Hamilton

Singapore and Japan 2010 - Vettel, Alonso and Webber

Europe and Britain 2011 - Alonso, Vettel and Webber

Korea and India 2012 when F1 was starting to get sooooooo boring (until that sensational Abu Dhabi round)- Vettel, Webber, Alonso

Most race laps in Formula One (1950-present)

1. Michael Schumacher - 16 824
2. Rubens Barrichello - 16 643
3. Jenson Button - 12 450

Jocke1 wrote:Most race laps in Formula One (1950-present)

1. Michael Schumacher - 16 824
2. Rubens Barrichello - 16 643
3. Jenson Button - 12 450

Bulletproof Ferrari. Rubens always seemed to get the short straw on retirements, plus was in Stewarts and Jordans while Schumi was in Benetton and Ferrari, then the unreliable Hondas. Not to mention his Sao Paolo curse.

PT8475 wrote:Bulletproof Ferrari. Rubens always seemed to get the short straw on retirements, plus was in Stewarts and Jordans while Schumi was in Benetton and Ferrari, then the unreliable Hondas. Not to mention his Sao Paolo curse.

Here are the Ferrari retirement stats

2000

M Schumacher: 4
Barrichello: 4

2001

M Schumacher: 2
Barrichello: 4

2002

M Schumacher: 0
Barrichello: 3 (discounting Spain)


2003

M Schumacher: 1
Barrichello: 5


2004

M Schumacher: 1
Barrichello: 1

2005

M Schumacher: 6
Barrichello: 2

Total

M Schumacher: 14
Barrichello: 19

The only season in which Schumacher suffered more retirements than Barrichello was visibly 2005, when Michael had dreadful luck.
The gap between the two wasn't as big as I and some of you thought.

All of these modern-era drivers never led a single lap in their F1 careers, although some of them scored podiums.

Brundle
Cheever
Verstappen
de la Rosa
Diniz
Katayama
Liuzzi
S Nakajima
Modena
Wurz
Morbidelli
Suzuki
Lehto
Blundell
Kobayashi !
Petrov
Badoer
Klien
D Daly...

Here is the link for the other drivers.

Of the 24 drivers starting the 1978 Belgian GP, 15 had already won at least one GP (Andretti, Brambilla, Depailler, Fittipaldi, Hunt, Ickx, Jones, Laffite, Lauda, Mass, Peterson, Regazzoni, Reutemann, Scheckter and Watson), 5 later became GP winners (Arnoux, Jabouille, Patrese, Pironi, Villeneuve) and only 4 never won a Grand Prix (Stommelen, Stuck, Giacomelli, Lunger).

pi314159 wrote:Of the 24 drivers starting the 1978 Belgian GP, 15 had already won at least one GP (Andretti, Brambilla, Depailler, Fittipaldi, Hunt, Ickx, Jones, Laffite, Lauda, Mass, Peterson, Regazzoni, Reutemann, Scheckter and Watson), 5 later became GP winners (Arnoux, Jabouille, Patrese, Pironi, Villeneuve) and only 4 never won a Grand Prix (Stommelen, Stuck, Giacomelli, Lunger).

Only 1 never stood on the podium either (Lunger who never scored a point)

Kimi-ICE wrote:

pi314159 wrote:Of the 24 drivers starting the 1978 Belgian GP, 15 had already won at least one GP (Andretti, Brambilla, Depailler, Fittipaldi, Hunt, Ickx, Jones, Laffite, Lauda, Mass, Peterson, Regazzoni, Reutemann, Scheckter and Watson), 5 later became GP winners (Arnoux, Jabouille, Patrese, Pironi, Villeneuve) and only 4 never won a Grand Prix (Stommelen, Stuck, Giacomelli, Lunger).

Only 1 never stood on the podium either (Lunger who never scored a point)

Also the DNQing Rosberg would later win races. In fact, the only 'rejects' in this race weekend were Lunger, Keegan (DNQ) and Colombo (DNPQ).

This should be made into a book IMO
something for the 2 months between school and collage then

good_Ralf wrote:All of these modern-era drivers never led a single lap in their F1 careers, although some of them scored podiums.

Brundle
Cheever
Verstappen
de la Rosa
Diniz
Katayama
Liuzzi
S Nakajima
Modena
Wurz
Morbidelli
Suzuki
Lehto
Blundell
Kobayashi !
Petrov
Badoer
Klien
D Daly...

Here is the link for the other drivers.

These drivers between them have led less laps than Sebastien Buemi. Nuff said.

good_Ralf wrote:All of these modern-era drivers never led a single lap in their F1 careers, although some of them scored podiums.

Brundle
Cheever
Verstappen
de la Rosa
Diniz
Katayama
Liuzzi
S Nakajima
Modena
Wurz
Morbidelli
Suzuki
Lehto
Blundell
Kobayashi !
Petrov
Badoer
Klien
D Daly...

Here is the link for the other drivers.

I was sure Brundle and Wurz had led a GP

Wurz led British GP 1997 after Schumacher slowed down to retire. However, he pitted at the end of that lap so that Villeneuve was leading when they went through finish line next time.

Jenson Button - 13 GP's at Silverstone without a podium finish.

Felipe Massa - 10 GP's at Silverstone without a podium finish.

Bleu wrote:Wurz led British GP 1997 after Schumacher slowed down to retire. However, he pitted at the end of that lap so that Villeneuve was leading when they went through finish line next time.

Yeah, I remember a discussion about this topic a few years ago at the Farzad's F1 Gallery Boards. Someone uploaded a picture of the TV feed with the classic Tag Heuer graphics reading "Wurz, Benetton Renault, 1" to demonstrate that he had led on the track.

Ferrim wrote:

Bleu wrote:Wurz led British GP 1997 after Schumacher slowed down to retire. However, he pitted at the end of that lap so that Villeneuve was leading when they went through finish line next time.

Yeah, I remember a discussion about this topic a few years ago at the Farzad's F1 Gallery Boards. Someone uploaded a picture of the TV feed with the classic Tag Heuer graphics reading "Wurz, Benetton Renault, 1" to demonstrate that he had led on the track.

I remember seeing that as well.

good_Ralf wrote:The only season in which Schumacher suffered more retirements than Barrichello was visibly 2005, when Michael had dreadful luck.
The gap between the two wasn't as big as I and some of you thought.

How about botched pit stops? Always got the feeling that 99% of ferrari's errors [even if they were rare] were with Rubens

Of the 24 drivers starting the 1978 Belgian GP, 15 had already won at least one GP (Andretti, Brambilla, Depailler, Fittipaldi, Hunt, Ickx, Jones, Laffite, Lauda, Mass, Peterson, Regazzoni, Reutemann, Scheckter and Watson), 5 later became GP winners (Arnoux, Jabouille, Patrese, Pironi, Villeneuve) and only 4 never won a Grand Prix (Stommelen, Stuck, Giacomelli, Lunger).

What a fantastic grid!

They screwed up Rubens at Monza in '01 and tried to use new tyres to help suspension failure

The Ferrari pit crew are good, but they were the worst in '01

Jocke1 wrote:
Felipe Massa - 10 GP's at Silverstone without a podium finish.

He managed to spin 5 times in two Silverstone gp's (2002 and 2008).
That would also be an achievement

Some stats I made are:

Years when the team-mate(s) of the world champion didn't win a single race.

2001 (Barrichello)
1994 (Verstappen, Lehto, Herbert)
1990 (Berger)
1986 (Rosberg)
1982 (Daly)
1981 (Rebaque)
1976 (Mass)
1973 (Cevert)
1972 (Walker)
1969 (Beltoise)
1966 (Hulme)
1965 (Spence)
1963 (Taylor, Trintignant, Arundell, Pilette)
1962 (Ginther)
1959 (Trintignant, McLaren)
1957 (Gregory, Schell, Behra, Moss, Bonnier, Menditeguy, Scarlatti and other Maseratidrivers.)


Seasons with only Champion-winners (current champions, future champions)

1993 and 1963 (!)

Seasons with only one race won by a driver who never was world champion:

1998 (Coulthard)
1996 (Panis)
1994 (Berger)
1988 (Berger)
1986 (Berger)
1984 (Alboreto)
1966 (Scarfiotti)
1965 (Ginther)

The seasons where the only non F1-champion racewinner was in the Indy 500:

1953 (Vukovich)
1950 (Parsons)

I forti sopravivono wrote:Seasons with only one race won by a driver who never was world champion:

1998 (Coulthard)
1996 (Panis)
1994 (Berger)
1988 (Berger)
1986 (Berger)
1984 (Alboreto)
1966 (Scarfiotti)
1965 (Ginther)

I think you forgot Fisichella, 2005 and 2006 and a few others.

good_Ralf wrote:

I forti sopravivono wrote:Seasons with only one race won by a driver who never was world champion:

1998 (Coulthard)
1996 (Panis)
1994 (Berger)
1988 (Berger)
1986 (Berger)
1984 (Alboreto)
1966 (Scarfiotti)
1965 (Ginther)

I think you forgot Fisichella, 2005 and 2006 and a few others.

Well, Montoya won a few in 2005, as did Massa in 2006...

tommykl wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:

I forti sopravivono wrote:Seasons with only one race won by a driver who never was world champion:

1998 (Coulthard)
1996 (Panis)
1994 (Berger)
1988 (Berger)
1986 (Berger)
1984 (Alboreto)
1966 (Scarfiotti)
1965 (Ginther)

I think you forgot Fisichella, 2005 and 2006 and a few others.

Well, Montoya won a few in 2005, as did Massa in 2006...

Whoops, was busy paying attention to the race.

Jocke1 wrote:Jenson Button - 13 GP's at Silverstone without a podium finish.

Felipe Massa - 10 GP's at Silverstone without a podium finish.

14 & 11.

Jocke1 wrote:

Jocke1 wrote:Jenson Button - 13 GP's at Silverstone without a podium finish.

Felipe Massa - 10 GP's at Silverstone without a podium finish.

14 & 11.

With Pirelli's increasing rate of tyre blowouts,is Britian 2013 the race with the most amount of punctures?

I forti sopravivono wrote:Years when the team-mate(s) of the world champion didn't win a single race.

1982 (Daly)

Having said that, Rosberg had only won one race that year himself, so that stat by itself is nothing to be ashamed of.

I forti sopravivono wrote:Years when the team-mate(s) of the world champion didn't win a single race.

1972 (Walker)

However, not scoring a single point while your teammate is World Champion may be shameful...

dr-baker wrote:

I forti sopravivono wrote:Years when the team-mate(s) of the world champion didn't win a single race.

1982 (Daly)

Having said that, Rosberg had only won one race that year himself, so that stat by itself is nothing to be ashamed of.

And Daly could have won Monaco.

good_Ralf wrote:

dr-baker wrote:

I forti sopravivono wrote:Years when the team-mate(s) of the world champion didn't win a single race.

1982 (Daly)

Having said that, Rosberg had only won one race that year himself, so that stat by itself is nothing to be ashamed of.

And Daly could have won Monaco.

Was that the one which nobody wanted to win, and everybody was binning it on the final lap? 1982 really was an eventful year, wasn't it?!

giraurd wrote:Well looking at the two teams currently it could be said Sutil is more likely to gain a podium in a Force India than McLaren this season...

After his near miss in Britain recently, Adrian (the Pianist as I like to call him) has now gone 98 races without a podium and is tied with Pedro Diniz.

Heres an interesting stat I saw on twitter- McLaren have failed to win the championship in every year that they have made an episode of tooned

takagi_for_the_win wrote:Heres an interesting stat I saw on twitter- McLaren have failed to win the championship in every year that they have made an episode of tooned

So I'm not the only person on here who follows Bad F1 Stats on Twitter.

Earlier I was looking at Giancarlo Fisichellas career stats, and I noticed something peculiar about the teams he drove for:
1996: Minardi
1997: Jordan (Team Silverstone)
1998-2001: Benetton (Team Enstone)
2002-2003: Jordan (Team Silverstone)
2004; Sauber
2005-2007: Renault (Team Enstone)
2008-2009: Force India (Team Silverstone)
2009: Ferrari

So if we ignore the half seasons spent at Minardi and Ferrari, and the season at Sauber, Fisico spent his entire career shuttling between Silverstone and Enstone