Grand Prix Rejects

Phoenix wrote:And is Toro Rosso's form genuine, or a bluff?

I smell a bluff to be honest. But then again, they seemed to have been more revolutionary with their design than most other teams.

And good to see Red Bull sandbagging like they always do at Jerez. Unless they're genuinely crap around here, in which case every race should be held at Jerez

You know, that Sauber picture seriously reminded me of their 1993 livery. Wow.
Mercedes might start behind the 8-ball this season...

Wizzie wrote:

Phoenix wrote:And is Toro Rosso's form genuine, or a bluff?

I smell a bluff to be honest. But then again, they seemed to have been more revolutionary with their design than most other teams.

And good to see Red Bull sandbagging like they always do at Jerez. Unless they're genuinely crap around here, in which case every race should be held at Jerez

Revolutionary? It looks to me just like the STR7, only with a modesty panel fitted in. The exhaust arrangement seems pretty conservative as well.

pi314159 wrote:

Wizzie wrote:You know, it's only a matter of time before Mercedes start to get sick of seeing their car return to the pits on the back of a flatbed truck.

And the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to suspect that Button's time yesterday may actually be a genuine yardstick of where that McLaren's at, considering how close it is last year's benchmark by Grosjean.

The cause for Hamilton's crash was a brakes failure.

At least the Mercedes won't be fast enough for it to be dangerous.

Phoenix wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

Phoenix wrote:And is Toro Rosso's form genuine, or a bluff?

I smell a bluff to be honest. But then again, they seemed to have been more revolutionary with their design than most other teams.

And good to see Red Bull sandbagging like they always do at Jerez. Unless they're genuinely crap around here, in which case every race should be held at Jerez

Revolutionary? It looks to me just like the STR7, only with a modesty panel fitted in. The exhaust arrangement seems pretty conservative as well.

Which goes to show that I paid absolutely no attention to the Toro Rosso launch earlier this week. I'll withdraw to my cave now

At first, I was really sad to see Schumacher leave F1 again. But right now, I think it is the right decision. I don't think the W04 will deliver better results than the W03. Would have been another season for Schumacher trundling around the midfield.

Get used to this picture!

Zetec wrote:At first, I was really sad to see Schumacher leave F1 again. But right now, I think it is the right decision. I don't think the W04 will deliver better results than the W03. Would have been another season for Schumacher trundling around the midfield.

The thing has only done about 30 laps so far. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here; worse case scenario they'll dump the W04, roll out the SLS as their racing car, and will be fun to watch go sideways all the time.

Phoenix wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

Phoenix wrote:And is Toro Rosso's form genuine, or a bluff?

I smell a bluff to be honest. But then again, they seemed to have been more revolutionary with their design than most other teams.

And good to see Red Bull sandbagging like they always do at Jerez. Unless they're genuinely crap around here, in which case every race should be held at Jerez

Revolutionary? It looks to me just like the STR7, only with a modesty panel fitted in. The exhaust arrangement seems pretty conservative as well.

That does seem to be the general consensus - the nose has been tweaked and there are a few small modifications elsewhere, mainly at the rear of the car, but no significant modifications over their 2012 car. Equally, I would take Toro Rosso's performance with a pinch of salt - Toro Rosso were also very quick at times in pre-season testing last year, but their in season performance was nothing like as impressive.

Phoenix wrote:I am really worried about Caterham and especially Marussia. The CT-03 is too similar to the car they used last season to no great effect, and the MR-02 looks woefully primitive. To worsen things, both teams have inexperienced drivers.

I think they will absolutely have races of their own at the back of the field this season. Worse still, Marussia will have a gap to bridge with Caterham.

And is Toro Rosso's form genuine, or a bluff?

The CT-03's chassis is a very lightly modified version of the CT-01's chassis - they have confirmed that they are sufficiently closely related that the chassis numbers for the CT-03 will continue on from the same series as the CT-01.

Speaking of Caterham, though, there are already signs of trouble elsewhere after Lotus noticed that there was a small winglet within the duct that directs the exhaust plume towards the diffuser area, which may be in contravention of the regulations. Allison has already questioned its legality, saying he expects that Caterham won't be allowed to use that part in Australia, so perhaps we might have a few complaints (though formal protests can't take place until Australia, no doubt Lotus will ask for "clarification" from the FIA) being directed towards the FIA sooner rather than later. http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... -at-jerez/

And does that issue have to do with the fact there can be no winglets or any similar bodywork directing exhaust gasses towards the diffuser, be it the top or even the main diffuser area itself? That was a part of the regulations I didn't have any knowledge about.

Phoenix wrote:And does that issue have to do with the fact there can be no winglets or any similar bodywork directing exhaust gasses towards the diffuser, be it the top or even the main diffuser area itself? That was a part of the regulations I didn't have any knowledge about.

The regulations do place restrictions on where bodywork can be placed in the vicinity of the exhausts and in front of the rear wheel centre line; the relevant section, as quoted in that article, is section 5.8.4:

Once the exhaust tailpipes, the bodywork required by Article 3.8.4 and any apertures permitted by Article 3.8.5 have been fully defined there must be no bodywork lying within a right circular truncated cone which :

a) Shares a common axis with that of the last 100mm of the tailpipe.

b) Has a forward diameter equal to that of each exhaust exit.

c) Starts at the exit of the tailpipe and extends rearwards as far as the rear wheel centre line.

d) Has a half-cone angle of 3° such that the cone has its larger diameter at the rear wheel centre line.

Furthermore, there must be a view from above, the side, or any intermediate angle perpendicular to the car centre line, from which the truncated cone is not obscured by any bodywork lying more than 50mm forward of the rear wheel centre line.

CarlosFerreira wrote:

Zetec wrote:At first, I was really sad to see Schumacher leave F1 again. But right now, I think it is the right decision. I don't think the W04 will deliver better results than the W03. Would have been another season for Schumacher trundling around the midfield.

The thing has only done about 30 laps so far. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here; worse case scenario they'll dump the W04, roll out the SLS as their racing car, and will be fun to watch go sideways all the time.

Another positive on that is it would allow Hamilton to go into wheel banging mode with others just as he likes to do.

DanielPT wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:

Zetec wrote:At first, I was really sad to see Schumacher leave F1 again. But right now, I think it is the right decision. I don't think the W04 will deliver better results than the W03. Would have been another season for Schumacher trundling around the midfield.

The thing has only done about 30 laps so far. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here; worse case scenario they'll dump the W04, roll out the SLS as their racing car, and will be fun to watch go sideways all the time.

Another positive on that is it would allow Hamilton to go into wheel banging mode with others just as he likes to do.

Don't forget fitting dem chrome wheels, nigga.

So Hamilton crashed at Dry Sac. I didn't realise Nicole was so...voracious.

Hamilton went from one unreliable team to another? How ironic.

Grosjean's lap time of 1:18.218 is quite impressive. That's already two tenths better than last year's best time.

pi314159 wrote:Grosjean's lap time of 1:18.218 is quite impressive. That's already two tenths better than last year's best time.

It might explain why Allison was sounding fairly confident over at Lotus when they were discussing Button's lap times from yesterday - of course, there are a lot of caveats (such as the fact that the 2013 tyres are supposed to be slightly faster than 2012's tyres were), but it does seem as if the team are heading in the right direction.

day 2 result

1. Romain Grosjean Lotus 1m18.218s 95
2. Paul di Resta Force India 1m19.003s + 0.785s 95
3. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1m19.134s + 0.916s 83
4. Mark Webber Red Bull 1m19.338s + 1.120s 101
5. Nico Hulkenberg Sauber 1m19.502s + 1.284s 99
6. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1m19.519s + 1.301s 15
7. Sergio Perez McLaren 1m19.572s + 1.354s 81
8. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m19.914s + 1.696s 78
9. Pastor Maldonado Williams 1m20.693s + 2.475s 71
10. James Rossiter Force India 1m21.273s + 3.055s 19
11. Giedo van der Garde Caterham 1m21.311s + 3.093s 88
12. Luiz Razia Marussia 1m23.537s + 5.319s 31

So what can we determine from the first two day then? Well It seems to me that the Marussia and Caterham are still shite slow, the Sauber and Force India has solid midfield pace. I can't comment of the Williams as it is not their new car yet. The Mercedes is about as reliable as an old Alfa Romeo. The top 4 teams could be looking to be be same but with the McLaren and lotus slight ahead. Yes Yes I know we can't draw much from 2 days of testing.

By the way I will be writing a Jerez review on Friday

andrew wrote:day 2 result

1. Romain Grosjean Lotus 1m18.218s 95
2. Paul di Resta Force India 1m19.003s + 0.785s 95
3. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1m19.134s + 0.916s 83
4. Mark Webber Red Bull 1m19.338s + 1.120s 101
5. Nico Hulkenberg Sauber 1m19.502s + 1.284s 99
6. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1m19.519s + 1.301s 15
7. Sergio Perez McLaren 1m19.572s + 1.354s 81
8. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m19.914s + 1.696s 78
9. Pastor Maldonado Williams 1m20.693s + 2.475s 71
10. James Rossiter Force India 1m21.273s + 3.055s 19
11. Giedo van der Garde Caterham 1m21.311s + 3.093s 88
12. Luiz Razia Marussia 1m23.537s + 5.319s 31

"Ans what is Ferrari doing?"

CarlosFerreira wrote:

andrew wrote:day 2 result

1. Romain Grosjean Lotus 1m18.218s 95
2. Paul di Resta Force India 1m19.003s + 0.785s 95
3. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1m19.134s + 0.916s 83
4. Mark Webber Red Bull 1m19.338s + 1.120s 101
5. Nico Hulkenberg Sauber 1m19.502s + 1.284s 99
6. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1m19.519s + 1.301s 15
7. Sergio Perez McLaren 1m19.572s + 1.354s 81
8. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m19.914s + 1.696s 78
9. Pastor Maldonado Williams 1m20.693s + 2.475s 71
10. James Rossiter Force India 1m21.273s + 3.055s 19
11. Giedo van der Garde Caterham 1m21.311s + 3.093s 88
12. Luiz Razia Marussia 1m23.537s + 5.319s 31

"Ans what is Ferrari doing?"

I guess Ferrari were sandbagging for the day.

Marussia are starting to worry me. I know they have a rookie line-up, but to be over two seconds slower than Caterham should have the alarm bell ringing.

As it is, I will gladly jump on the 'I know it is too early but I will draw conclusions anyway' bandwagon.

My take is this:

Looks like they are showboating: Mallya and Enstone;
Still look genuinely fast: Red Dull and McLaren;
'Has some pace but can't make the car work for more than a dozen laps': Lewis Hamilton's team;
'No nasty surprises this year since the car behaves nicely right out of the box, so we are happy to the point we will forget for now that our rivals still look faster than us. Until the last test, that is, where we will finally admit that we are panicking': Fernando Alonso's team;
Looking like they have improved: Red Dull nº2;
Looking like they have improved but since they are saddled with pay-drivers they will probably not take advantage of new found speed: The Team Formally Known as Lotus;
Looking like there will be less heroics this year because they let their star Engineer flee to a team looking like having already improved: Sauber;
looking like having improved as much as the back of the midfield, so their gap to these is pretty much the same: Ex-Virgin.

I feel sorry for Razia today because they only managed 31 laps before they had some KERS problems. The red flag at the end just prevented them from going out and doing a couple of laps to check everything over. Nothing to worry about just yet, the problems have meant the car still hasn't done many laps at full speed.

Good day for Caterham though, van de Garde clocked up over 80 laps didn't he? That's going to be very useful, and their pace didn't seem too bad either.

News on the Marussia front, as well as announcing Razia as the second driver today, they also announced a bigger deal with partner Sage. Not sure if it will mean more stickers on the car though as there's already a few Sage ones on there - primarily the front wing. http://www.marussiaf1team.com/news/746/

Also if you look at Razia's overalls, there's a few extra personal sponsors on them, but I don't know if they will end up on the car or not.

Chilton is fastest!

Well, the only other time is a slow installation lap by Bottas

James Rossiter has hit a mechanic. I hope the he is OK.

Having just tuned in to the Autosport live feed, I must say that whoever suggested that our lord HWNSNBM for the worst driver ever needs to be eliminated with the Papaya cannon. Immediately.

EDIT: Hell, take out the guy who suggested Luca Badoer as well for good measure.

The live timing lists Vettel with a 1:06.493! I know Newey's construtions are fast and Vettel is a great driver. But that must be an error.

And Mercedes have already managed more laps today than the previous two days combined. Even more shockingly, something hasn't catastrophically failed on the car yet!

Oh boy, controversial call from Edd Straw there as he has NOT included Yuji Ide on the shortlist for worst drivers of the past 20 years.

Next up, he's doing Jos 'the boss' Verstappen after some clown suggested him earlier

Wizzie wrote:Having just tuned in to the Autosport live feed, I must say that whoever suggested that our lord HWNSNBM for the worst driver ever needs to be eliminated with the Papaya cannon. Immediately.

EDIT: Hell, take out the guy who suggested Luca Badoer as well for good measure.

Even a cursory look at Badoer's career demonstrates that he gave it a bloody good shot. Not his fault he was let down by unreliable, almost undriveable and just plain poor cars!

Wizzie wrote:Having just tuned in to the Autosport live feed, I must say that whoever suggested that our lord HWNSNBM for the worst driver ever needs to be eliminated with the Papaya cannon. Immediately.

EDIT: Hell, take out the guy who suggested Luca Badoer as well for good measure.

Couldn't agree more!

Wizzie wrote:Oh boy, controversial call from Edd Straw there as he has NOT included Yuji Ide on the shortlist for worst drivers of the past 20 years.

That was my suggestion...

I think Paul Belmondo's just made Straw's shortlist. Man, forget the test session, this is far more interesting

EDIT: Just as I say that, Pic's Caterham has ground to a halt at turn two.

Christ, where did that lap from Massa come from?

Wizzie wrote:Christ, where did that lap from Massa come from?

Well, I guess we can toss McLaren and Lotus' times from the last couple days completely out the window; still no idea in the slightest what the pecking order is.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

Wizzie wrote:Christ, where did that lap from Massa come from?

Well, I guess we can toss McLaren and Lotus' times from the last couple days completely out the window; still no idea in the slightest what the pecking order is.

Indeed. We now also know the softs are falling away faster than the Hindenberg here at Jerez.

In other news, I believe Gaston Mazzacane has just been added to the Autosport shortlist

Wizzie wrote:Christ, where did that lap from Massa come from?

Let's not get too impressed. It's just Massa. In a Ferrari...

While Edd Straw continues to eliminate drivers from shortlist contender, it struck me that he rates Tora Takagi quite highly. For someone who only started watching F1 in late 2004, I can't quite figure out why so can someone care to enlighten me on this?

Wizzie wrote:While Edd Straw continues to eliminate drivers from shortlist contender, it struck me that he rates Tora Takagi quite highly. For someone who only started watching F1 in late 2004, I can't quite figure out why so can someone care to enlighten me on this?

Can't really remember any of his drives, although I know he was better than Rosset and was close to De La Rosa. Meanwhile, I have something to say to the guy who suggested Diniz: Start watching more F1. Seriously.

Taki Inoue's been nominated...by Taki Inoue!