Grand Prix Rejects

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 07:56**

Ooh, so many good candidates here!

Van Der Garde with his rather stupid move on Webber - he could've just let him pass by moving over, it's not like it would've changed anything regarding his position. Only partly to blame for the Hulk Smash incident though.
Sauber with both cars crashing out of the race, although because no replay was shown I'm unsure of what exactly happened with Gutierrez.
In reference to the previous comment, the TV director. "Hey, instead of showing a serious crash, let's show the all-dominant Vettel!"
Williams FW35 for being an absolute piece of turd in anything but extremely special conditions.
McLaren for failing to score with both cars finishing for the first time since Turkey 2009. The car needs a major rethink.

But eventually my nomination goes to LOTUS for seemingly finding all new ways to throw away any title hopes. Räikkönen's car was plagued by brake and fuel consumption issues, and then there was that dreadful pitstop. Meanwhile Grosjean struggled with tyre wear and was forced to abandon a good recovery ride.

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 11:39**

A few candidates here...

Honourable mentions:
Giedo van der Garde - slow all around, and cutting across a leader who is lapping you is a no-no. He wasn't at fault for the Hülkenberg accident, though.
Sauber - what happened there?
Williams - see Sauber.
McLaren - see Williams.

But from what I could gather, the Reject of the Race for me has to be

Esteban Gutiérrez - not only did he amateurishly spin off at a place where I didn't think it was possible, but Gaëtan Vigneron seemed to imply that he did so while exiting the pitlane. :lol:

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 13:51**

McLaren...I cannot pass up the opportunity of voting them ROTR, it might not come again. Their points' streak has finally been broken.

Also,
Lotus: brakes, fuel consumption, strategy, pitstops.. they've fallen back again.
Sauber: At this point last year, the team had picked up two podiums, now just 2 points' finishes...says it all...
Daniel Ricciardo: I'm waiting for an explanation...
Adrian Sutil: blamed FIA for 'inconsistency' when he himself was the most inconsistent person out there.
Van der Garde: we know he's crap, but this weekend he was just..... I'm lost for words..
Williams: Soon it might be points or bust.
Jeering Crowd: Despite being a firm believer in 'Salut Gilles' I cannot fathom where this Vettel hatred is coming from. Did they hate Schumi when races were boring and he won?

SUNDAY TORTOISE OF THE RACE: Sorry Valtteri, but I've got to give you this. I'm still a big fan though...

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 14:53**

tommykl wrote:But from what I could gather, the Reject of the Race for me has to be

Esteban Gutiérrez - not only did he amateurishly spin off at a place where I didn't think it was possible, but Gaëtan Vigneron seemed to imply that he did so while exiting the pitlane.

I think Jarno Trulli did that under a Safety Car at that very place in 2007.

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 15:06**

tommykl wrote:A few candidates here...

Honourable mentions:
Giedo van der Garde - slow all around, and cutting across a leader who is lapping you is a no-no. He wasn't at fault for the Hülkenberg accident, though.
Sauber - what happened there?
Williams - see Sauber.
McLaren - see Williams.

But from what I could gather, the Reject of the Race for me has to be

Esteban Gutiérrez - not only did he amateurishly spin off at a place where I didn't think it was possible, but Gaëtan Vigneron seemed to imply that he did so while exiting the pitlane.

Gutierrez has now admitted that he did indeed lose control of the car when exiting the pit lane, claiming that he locked up over some bumps on the outside of the turn and slid off into the barrier. As for why Sauber were so poor, the problem was that Gutierrez was on a one stop strategy but couldn't manage his tyres well enough, hence the late hurried pit stop that saw him in the barrier, whilst Hulkenberg was on a two stopper but couldn't put in the lap times to make it work (he reckoned that he wouldn't have been much higher than 14th at the end of the race).

As for McLaren, their excuse is that they overestimated the wear rate of the tyres, especially the medium compound, and ended up being over cautious when it came to tyre management. There is perhaps something in that - Button set the 8th fastest lap of the race despite having tyres that were 40 laps old by that point, suggesting that there was still plenty of life left in the tyres at that point in the race.

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 15:53**

Sauber were poor because their car is a shitbox and no one on that team has any clue why.

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 15:59**

Sauber and particulary Williams have been poor all season so this race was hardly a ground-breaking experience. If qual was dry then Bottas would be nowhere near Q3 and the hype would be never there in first place. Likewise McLaren is off the pace all season but this time there was no luck to help them sneak a point or two and they ended up empty handed. Neither of these performances are Reject worthy IMO since they all followed a familiar 2013 pattern.

ROTR has to be Giedo van der Garde who after his Monaco qual heroics drove like an absolute tool in Canada and quite frankly looked the most lost driver out there since Yuji Ide. I'm almost sure he can't drive any worse than this for the entire season.

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 17:01**

wsrgo wrote:Jeering Crowd: Despite being a firm believer in 'Salut Gilles' I cannot fathom where this Vettel hatred is coming from. Did they hate Schumi when races were boring and he won?

They probably hated Schumi because of Jerez '97

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 17:20**

good_Ralf wrote:
tommykl wrote:But from what I could gather, the Reject of the Race for me has to be

Esteban Gutiérrez - not only did he amateurishly spin off at a place where I didn't think it was possible, but Gaëtan Vigneron seemed to imply that he did so while exiting the pitlane.

I think Jarno Trulli did that under a Safety Car at that very place in 2007.

But that was just after he was involved in Kubica crash so I guess you can't blame him for maybe being a bit distracted.

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 17:27**

Lotus, Williams, McLaren and Sauber all had torrid afternoons in Montreal yesterday. But Giedo Van Der Garde takes this by a country mile. I'm not actually sure who was in the second Caterham at Monte Carlo. Perhaps it was HWNSNBM after all...

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 18:17**

Lotus - So from being the closest challengers to RBR at the beginning of the season they now look a quite clear 4th best with maybe even Force India challenging them in the next races!

Adrian Sutil - Can't string together a clean race since Australia.

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 18:58**

Benetton wrote:Adrian Sutil - Can't string together a clean race since Australia.

Monaco says hello.

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 19:18**

Giedo van der GardeHe hit Webber and Hulkenberg, and is nearly lapped by his own teammate Pic.

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 19:19**

Ed24 wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:
tommykl wrote:But from what I could gather, the Reject of the Race for me has to be

Esteban Gutiérrez - not only did he amateurishly spin off at a place where I didn't think it was possible, but Gaëtan Vigneron seemed to imply that he did so while exiting the pitlane.

I think Jarno Trulli did that under a Safety Car at that very place in 2007.

But that was just after he was involved in Kubica crash so I guess you can't blame him for maybe being a bit distracted.

Kubica crashed in the middle of the race, bringing out the second SC. Trulli crashed near the end of the race, in the middle of the fourth SC. The only way Trulli's accident could have been linked to Kubica's is that Jarno was emotionally affected but he was more or less trying to make ground and join the SC queue having just made a pit stop and therefore lost control.

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 19:54**

GvdG and Eddie Jordan.

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 19:59**

Jocke1 wrote:Eddie Jordan.

I agree EJ's podium interviews were shocking

Posted: **10 Jun 2013, 20:24**

Jocke1 wrote:GvdG and Eddie Jordan.

Seconded, I changed mine because of what happened with the Marshall and my condolences are with the marshalls family in this dreadful time

Posted: **13 Jun 2013, 00:23**

This one was easy for me. It should be Giedo Van der Garde, not only because of the Webber incident and the resulting 10 sec. stop go penalty, but also he knocked out Hulkenburg and eventually retired with a front wing folded underneath the car.

And If I was Alexander Rossi, I will not want to drive the Caterham full time for 2014, if this team would stay on the grid by then!

Posted: **13 Jun 2013, 02:16**

KL-racer wrote:This one was easy for me. It should be Giedo Van der Garde, not only because of the Webber incident and the resulting 10 sec. stop go penalty, but also he knocked out Hulkenburg and eventually retired with a front wing folded underneath the car.

And If I was Alexander Rossi, I will not want to drive the Caterham full time for 2014, if this team would stay on the grid by then!

If I was in charge of Caterham, I wouldn't offer Rossi the drive.

Posted: **13 Jun 2013, 08:00**

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
KL-racer wrote:This one was easy for me. It should be Giedo Van der Garde, not only because of the Webber incident and the resulting 10 sec. stop go penalty, but also he knocked out Hulkenburg and eventually retired with a front wing folded underneath the car.

And If I was Alexander Rossi, I will not want to drive the Caterham full time for 2014, if this team would stay on the grid by then!

If I was in charge of Caterham, I wouldn't offer Rossi the drive.

Well, then they would have to wait for 5 years before Matt Parry is old enough.

Unless you want to see a budding F1 reject in that light-green, broken-nosed car..

Posted: **13 Jun 2013, 10:19**

I think Caterham should hire Gary Paffett and give him a chance to shine

Posted: **13 Jun 2013, 13:14**

wsrgo wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
KL-racer wrote:This one was easy for me. It should be Giedo Van der Garde, not only because of the Webber incident and the resulting 10 sec. stop go penalty, but also he knocked out Hulkenburg and eventually retired with a front wing folded underneath the car.

And If I was Alexander Rossi, I will not want to drive the Caterham full time for 2014, if this team would stay on the grid by then!

If I was in charge of Caterham, I wouldn't offer Rossi the drive.

Well, then they would have to wait for 5 years before Matt Parry is old enough.

... why?

Posted: **13 Jun 2013, 14:49**

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
... why?

He's only in NEC this year, next year he'll probably be in Eurocup, after which he should be in FR3.5, followed by GP2.
That's about five years IMO.

Also because he's the only decent driver in the Caterham Racing Academy. If you don't count Rossi, that is.

Posted: **13 Jun 2013, 14:51**

wsrgo wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
... why?

He's only in NEC this year, next year he'll probably be in Eurocup, after which he should be in FR3.5, followed by GP2.
That's about five years IMO.

Also because he's the only decent driver in the Caterham Racing Academy. If you don't count Rossi, that is.

... they don't have to hire a driver from their own academy, though. There's no rule that says that. Honestly, I'd try to cut a deal with Mercedes and get Robert Wickens in the car.

Posted: **13 Jun 2013, 15:23**

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
wsrgo wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
... why?

He's only in NEC this year, next year he'll probably be in Eurocup, after which he should be in FR3.5, followed by GP2.
That's about five years IMO.

Also because he's the only decent driver in the Caterham Racing Academy. If you don't count Rossi, that is.

... they don't have to hire a driver from their own academy, though. There's no rule that says that. Honestly, I'd try to cut a deal with Mercedes and get Robert Wickens in the car.

There is no rule, but I CANNOT see Caterham becoming the fifth team with Merc power (I don't think there'll be a fifth team at all). Although I do want to see Wickens race in F1, I can't see it being with Caterham. Force India or Williams seem better options, although Daniel Juncadella seems to be a certain shoe-in at Williams with a common sponsor (Astana) and of course, the Merc links.

Posted: **14 Jun 2013, 16:02**

good_Ralf wrote:Kubica crashed in the middle of the race, bringing out the second SC. Trulli crashed near the end of the race, in the middle of the fourth SC. The only way Trulli's accident could have been linked to Kubica's is that Jarno was emotionally affected but he was more or less trying to make ground and join the SC queue having just made a pit stop and therefore lost control.

Oh was it? The safety cars must have blended together in my mind. Thanks for the correction!

Posted: **14 Jun 2013, 18:50**

Would whoever sent the crane out, that killed the marshall not be the ROTR? Or at least, Guttierez for stopping where he did and causing the crane to come out?

Posted: **14 Jun 2013, 19:06**

Eifelland wrote:Would whoever sent the crane out, that killed the marshall not be the ROTR? Or at least, Guttierez for stopping where he did and causing the crane to come out?

By your logic, then the marshals should get ROTR or the FIA for ordering the crane to come out in the first place.

Posted: **14 Jun 2013, 19:30**

go_Rubens wrote:
Eifelland wrote:Would whoever sent the crane out, that killed the marshall not be the ROTR? Or at least, Guttierez for stopping where he did and causing the crane to come out?

By your logic, then the marshals should get ROTR or the FIA for ordering the crane to come out in the first place.

Seems legit. I assume the marshals at the track are ultimately responsible for those sorts of things, much like FIFA aren't directly responsible for refereeing errors in matches. Or am I not allowed to refer non-drivers/teams for ROTR anymore?

Posted: **14 Jun 2013, 19:40**

Eifelland wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:
Eifelland wrote:Would whoever sent the crane out, that killed the marshall not be the ROTR? Or at least, Guttierez for stopping where he did and causing the crane to come out?

By your logic, then the marshals should get ROTR or the FIA for ordering the crane to come out in the first place.

Seems legit. I assume the marshals at the track are ultimately responsible for those sorts of things, much like FIFA aren't directly responsible for refereeing errors in matches. Or am I not allowed to refer non-drivers/teams for ROTR anymore?

You can vote whatever you'd like for ROTR.

Posted: **14 Jun 2013, 20:36**

I feel that ROTR ought to be a fun, light-hearted award, and nominating an event in which a hardworking marshall died just seems a little insenstive to me. Sorry, Eiffeland. Nothing personal. It just doesn't seem right, if you know what I mean. This pretty much says the same thing in a different way.

Posted: **15 Jun 2013, 06:01**

FMecha wrote:I think Caterham should hire Gary Paffett and give him a chance to shine

Fail troll is fail. Gary Paffet has not been competitive is any of his Mclaren tests

Posted: **15 Jun 2013, 06:04**

eurobrun wrote:
FMecha wrote:I think Caterham should hire Gary Paffett and give him a chance to shine

Fail troll is fail. Gary Paffet has not been competitive is any of his Mclaren tests

Considering you took the bait, I'd say it was a pretty darn successful troll :lol:

Posted: **15 Jun 2013, 06:13**

the Masked Lapwing wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
FMecha wrote:I think Caterham should hire Gary Paffett and give him a chance to shine

Fail troll is fail. Gary Paffet has not been competitive is any of his Mclaren tests

Considering you took the bait, I'd say it was a pretty darn successful troll

I knew it was a attempt at trolling because of the face, I only posted a reason so other people didn't take his comment seriously.

And do you really want to encourage FMecha to try to be funny?

Posted: **15 Jun 2013, 12:59**

It's taken a week to name the official recipient, not because it was a tricky decision, but basically because I have been insanely busy with work for ... well, the last 4-5 weeks, to be honest ...

No great surprise here, I've gone for Giedo van der Garde. Of course, the shine from his Monaco qualifying heroics rubbed off on the first lap of the Monaco race itself, but any residual brownie points were well and truly thrown away at Montreal. Whilst the blue flag rule these days has removed one of the skills of yesteryear - the ability to carve through traffic effectively - and that is somewhat disappointing, the rules are the rules but for whatever reason Giedo decided to be infused with the spirit of De Cesaris, Arnoux, Alliot and Grouillard in Canada. Notwithstanding that Mark Webber didn't get entirely alongside, Giedo must have known he was there and should not have closed the door. If that was not enough, there was also the incident with Hulkenberg, and whilst Nico was moving back over under braking, what on earth was van der Garde doing still having his nose there? I dare say that just about every other driver in the field would have done what Hulkenberg did, expecting the backmarker to have lifted off to let the faster car assume a better line for the final chicane.

Posted: **15 Jun 2013, 13:05**

That's Van der Garde's first ROTR of his career. If this goes on i could consider giving the Rookies (except Bottas and Bianchi) ROTY. So far none of them have scored a point and 2 of them have won ROTR's already. However now that Giedo has a ROTR nominating him in Future is now considered as the easy way out

Posted: **15 Jun 2013, 20:09**

Kimi-ICE wrote:That's Van der Garde's first ROTR of his career. If this goes on i could consider giving the Rookies (except Bottas and Bianchi) ROTY. So far none of them have scored a point and 2 of them have won ROTR's already. However now that Giedo has a ROTR nominating him in Future is now considered as the easy way out

It's somewhat illogical to award Reject of the Year to a group of four drivers, then subsequently discard two of them. And it's not like we have expected more out of van der Garde, so it's unfair to give it to him when we all were under the impression that he was out of his element when he first joined the grid. Gutierrez is the only one that would be deserving, but he still has the rest of the season to get his act together. And to complicate things, Sauber, Williams, and McLaren all seem downright determined to win it this year.

Posted: **15 Jun 2013, 20:28**

Hound55 wrote:
Kimi-ICE wrote:That's Van der Garde's first ROTR of his career. If this goes on i could consider giving the Rookies (except Bottas and Bianchi) ROTY. So far none of them have scored a point and 2 of them have won ROTR's already. However now that Giedo has a ROTR nominating him in Future is now considered as the easy way out

It's somewhat illogical to award Reject of the Year to a group of four drivers, then subsequently discard two of them. And it's not like we have expected more out of van der Garde, so it's unfair to give it to him when we all were under the impression that he was out of his element when he first joined the grid. Gutierrez is the only one that would be deserving, but he still has the rest of the season to get his act together. And to complicate things, Sauber, Williams, and McLaren all seem downright determined to win it this year.

Especially Mclaren because Williams have been crap for sometime now and considering they won it in 2006 and 2011 i don't think Enoch would be hard pressed to give them another one. Mclaren however are doing 2 things at the moment. 1) They are making their 1995 look good and 2) Proving that Hamilton was right in jumping ship. Money is prevailing over Loyalty at the moment. They have a completely lost team principle at the helm, A head officer who is good at turning successful teams into also-rans. And that's before we mention they have one driver

That said Sauber aren't covering themselves in Glory either. I mean their fall from grace has been staggering and they can count themselves lucky that it's only Sky Sports that have caught on to their slump in form. Nico Hulkenberg deserves better than what's he's got at the moment as he dragged his car to 8th at Malaysia and also into Q3 and 10th in China. Kaltenborn needs to do something about this and at the moment i'm not seeing any signs of progress

Posted: **15 Jun 2013, 20:56**

Kimi-ICE wrote:
Hound55 wrote:
Kimi-ICE wrote:That's Van der Garde's first ROTR of his career. If this goes on i could consider giving the Rookies (except Bottas and Bianchi) ROTY. So far none of them have scored a point and 2 of them have won ROTR's already. However now that Giedo has a ROTR nominating him in Future is now considered as the easy way out

It's somewhat illogical to award Reject of the Year to a group of four drivers, then subsequently discard two of them. And it's not like we have expected more out of van der Garde, so it's unfair to give it to him when we all were under the impression that he was out of his element when he first joined the grid. Gutierrez is the only one that would be deserving, but he still has the rest of the season to get his act together. And to complicate things, Sauber, Williams, and McLaren all seem downright determined to win it this year.

Especially Mclaren because Williams have been crap for sometime now and considering they won it in 2006 and 2011 i don't think Enoch would be hard pressed to give them another one. Mclaren however are doing 2 things at the moment. 1) They are making their 1995 look good and 2) Proving that Hamilton was right in jumping ship. Money is prevailing over Loyalty at the moment. They have a completely lost team principle at the helm, A head officer who is good at turning successful teams into also-rans. And that's before we mention they have one driver

That said Sauber aren't covering themselves in Glory either. I mean their fall from grace has been staggering and they can count themselves lucky that it's only Sky Sports that have caught on to their slump in form. Nico Hulkenberg deserves better than what's he's got at the moment as he dragged his car to 8th at Malaysia and also into Q3 and 10th in China. Kaltenborn needs to do something about this and at the moment i'm not seeing any signs of progress

Kaltenborn can't do anything herself unless she picked up a bit more technical talent. Thing is, I'm told it's quite difficult to persuade UK residents to relocate to Switzerland due to the fact that the cost of living is pretty high. So any designers with young families will take a little financial motivation, which is something Sauber can't entirely afford to do. This could potentially be a reason Key left.

I don't entirely agree with your McLaren analysis either. The car's a completely new concept, and although it's not gone successfully so far I'd imagine McLaren would rather take the hit now and trial parts ready for the new 2014 rules than be left behind.

Posted: **15 Jun 2013, 21:04**

Ataxia wrote:
Kimi-ICE wrote:
Especially Mclaren because Williams have been crap for sometime now and considering they won it in 2006 and 2011 i don't think Enoch would be hard pressed to give them another one. Mclaren however are doing 2 things at the moment. 1) They are making their 1995 look good and 2) Proving that Hamilton was right in jumping ship. Money is prevailing over Loyalty at the moment. They have a completely lost team principle at the helm, A head officer who is good at turning successful teams into also-rans. And that's before we mention they have one driver who can only do well in the right conditions and another who is letting the pressure getting to him in his first season with the team

That said Sauber aren't covering themselves in Glory either. I mean their fall from grace has been staggering and they can count themselves lucky that it's only Sky Sports that have caught on to their slump in form. Nico Hulkenberg deserves better than what's he's got at the moment as he dragged his car to 8th at Malaysia and also into Q3 and 10th in China. Kaltenborn needs to do something about this and at the moment i'm not seeing any signs of progress

Kaltenborn can't do anything herself unless she picked up a bit more technical talent. Thing is, I'm told it's quite difficult to persuade UK residents to relocate to Switzerland due to the fact that the cost of living is pretty high. So any designers with young families will take a little financial motivation, which is something Sauber can't entirely afford to do. This could potentially be a reason Key left.

I don't entirely agree with your McLaren analysis either. The car's a completely new concept, and although it's not gone successfully so far I'd imagine McLaren would rather take the hit now and trial parts ready for the new 2014 rules than be left behind.

Grand Prix Rejects

Reject of the Race-Canada 2013

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