2014 Chinese Grand Prix Thread

[RonDenisDeletraz]

Kamui, you are my hero

Dat checkred flag

[sswishbone]

well that was... Disappointing, a couple of decent battles but mostly a processional affair

Kobayashi passing Vettel a definite highlight

[good_Ralf]

First time ever Hamilton has won 3 straight races in F1.

[go_Rubens]

Martin Brundle just got banned from the IRC chat with his comments.

That was dull, but Vettel telling Red Bull "tough luck" with the team order and finishing 1/5 a lap down on his teammate is quite amusing.

[good_Ralf]

F1 goes to back its boring habit of having TV pundits doing the podium interviews.

[sswishbone]

F1 goes to back its boring habit of having TV pundits doing the podium interviews.

At least the pundits ask relevant questions and make things about the drivers rather than themselves

[GwilymJJames]

Wonder if Lauda thinks anyone who found the race boring is an idiot this week.

[Jocke1]

I thought it was pretty pathetic on lap 13 when Vettel exited the pits and came out behind Kvyat.
Within one or two hundred metres Vettel passed him incredibly easy, it really looked like Kvyat just let him through.
Is Toro Rosso not allowed to race RB?

[apple2009]

I thought it was pretty pathetic on lap 13 when Vettel exited the pits and came out behind Kvyat.
Within one or two hundred metres Vettel passed him incredibly easy, it really looked like Kvyat just let him through.
Is Toro Rosso not allowed to race RB?

Toro Rosso = Red Bull

In Italian, Toro = Bull, Rosso = Red. Also, Scuderia is something along the lines of "racing team". Red Bull Racing = Scuderia Toro Rosso (Red Bull Racing Team)

Simple really.

[go_Rubens]

I thought it was pretty pathetic on lap 13 when Vettel exited the pits and came out behind Kvyat.
Within one or two hundred metres Vettel passed him incredibly easy, it really looked like Kvyat just let him through.
Is Toro Rosso not allowed to race RB?

Nope. Toro Rosso drivers have a statement in their contract where if a senior team member (aka Vettel) is behind you, you must let him past.

[mario]

I thought it was pretty pathetic on lap 13 when Vettel exited the pits and came out behind Kvyat.
Within one or two hundred metres Vettel passed him incredibly easy, it really looked like Kvyat just let him through.
Is Toro Rosso not allowed to race RB?

I strongly suspect that there is something of an unwritten rule that means the Toro Rosso drivers cannot race the parent team. That said, it is probably not surprising given that, with fresher tyres (I'm not sure if Kvyat had pitted at that time), Vettel would have passed Kvyat fairly quickly anyway, so there wouldn't have been much point in Kvyat fighting him.

Wonder if Lauda thinks anyone who found the race boring is an idiot this week.

He probably won't mind too much given that the team have earned themselves another 1-2 finish...

It's true that this race was, save for a few highlights (the chaotic start, Vettel's radio calls, especially after being passed by Kobayashi, and the faint glimmers of hope for Lotus until Grosjean's gearbox gave out) not especially memorable - it's probably going to be the case that it is more about what happens as a result of this race rather than the race itself.

The fact that Alonso managed to beat both Red Bull's might give Ferrari a little lift in performance, but perhaps was a case of the team flattering to deceive given that this circuit has tended to favour Ferrari (they were quite competitive here last year in a car that was otherwise not quite so strong).
It's also the case that, right now, Kimi is still ill at ease with the car right now and not getting the results that Ferrari would probably have expected from him - it's definitely true that he has been hindered by mechanical issues (he damaged his chassis in Bahrain and qualified out of position here due to downshift issues), but that doesn't seem to explain all of the gap between himself and Alonso right now.

Red Bull, meanwhile, have an interesting dilemma - Vettel's growing frustration in the cockpit with a car that he is struggling to master may prove hard to master in the next few races. They've also blown a lot of points for Ricciardo in the opening races - they might have now taken 2nd in the WCC, but they could have been a lot further ahead than they currently are.

As for Mercedes, right now Rosberg might be feeling quite worried - whilst he has at least lead the championship for longer than his dad ever did, at the moment it is Hamilton who is seizing the initiative - and the wins - whilst Mercedes still has a major advantage.
As others have pointed out, Hamilton must be brimming with confidence right now - three back to back wins (the first time he has managed that in F1), two of which have seen him beat Rosberg by a substantial margin and the third was a hard fought battle that seems to have shaken Rosberg a bit. To make matters worse, Hamilton seems to be doing it whilst taking it easy too - he seemed to manage his tyres better in this race and has generally had the luxury of being able to manage his fuel more effectively too, both areas where he was expected to be the slightly weaker driver rather than the stronger one.

The Force India-McLaren battle looks quite interesting too, and one that is currently going in favour of the former - Hulkenberg had another solid race (I loved the cheeky banter between Brundle and Fearnley over the former's praise for Hulkenberg), and whilst Perez couldn't live up to his Bahrain performance he did still bring the car home in the points to help stretch Force India's lead over McLaren.
Speaking of McLaren, once again it was a pretty dismal result for the team - neither driver had any real answer for their rivals, with Button unable to really make any ground and Magnussen's strategy not working out (nor showing any better pace than Button). They've already sunk to 5th in the WCC and, unless their Barcelona spec package can raise their form, may well fall back to 6th if Williams continue to outscore them.

[eytl]

As has been pointed out on the ROTR thread, some reports are suggesting the race was called two laps early due to the chequered being shown to Hamilton. If that is correct (and Autosport is yet to report it) then Kobayashi's pass on Bianchi on the last lap counts for nothing. In the scheme of things, given that 13th place finishes at the moment appears to be the main currency in the battle for 10th, it might not mean much. But it events transpire so that the battle comes down to a count-back over 17th places, and the results are declared on 54 laps instead of 56, Caterham would be spewing!

Vettel also saying that he did eventually let Ricciardo past. If so, then can I just say that it takes tremendous skill to let someone past whilst faking braking too late and almost running off the track ...

But at least Seb is showing some magnanimity:

"I think it is good Daniel gets along with the car and gets the maximum out of it. It's a good reference. At the moment the gap is very big and I need to work on that. Daniel is showing there is more in the car than I can get to at the moment.

"I don't think there was a problem with the car. At the moment he seems to just get more out of the car than I do. At the moment he seems to get more out of the car than I do. The gap is too big to be something small in terms of set up so we need to have a look and keep working."

To which I presume some folk out there might simply say, "Tough luck."

[Jocke1]

Fastest laps of the race

1. Nico ROSBERG 1'40''402
2. Lewis HAMILTON 1'41''196 + 0.794
3. Daniel RICCIARDO 1'41''473 + 1.071
4. Fernando ALONSO 1'42''081 + 1.679
5. Sebastian VETTEL 1'42''169 + 1.767
6. Sergio PEREZ 1'42''228 + 1.826
7. Esteban GUTIERREZ 1'42''257 + 1.855
8. Kimi RAIKKONEN 1'42''300 + 1.898
9. Felipe MASSA 1'42''379 + 1.977
10. Nico HULKENBERG 1'42''624 + 2.222
11. Valtteri BOTTAS 1'42''660 + 2.258
12. Kevin MAGNUSSEN 1'42''701 + 2.299
13. Max CHILTON 1'42''875 + 2.473


Look at that lap by Rosberg
And Gutierrez 7th & Chilton 13th fastest

[Fetzie]

From the regulations (http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/regulation/file/1-2014%20SPORTING%20REGULATIONS%202014-02-28.pdf):

43)
FINISH
43.1
The end-of-race signal will be given at the Line as soon as the leading car has covered the full race distance in accordance with Article 5.3.
43.2
Should for any reason the end-of-race signal be given before the leading car completes the scheduled number of laps, or the prescribed time has been completed, the race will be deemed to have finished when the leading car last crossed the Line before the signal was given.
Should the end-of-race signal be delayed for any reason, the race will be deemed to have finished when it should have finished.

By my interpretation of that rule (43.2) the race ended when Lewis Hamilton crossed the line to start the lap upon which the flag was erroneously shown. So Kobayashi overtook Bianci after the race ended (which sucks for him) and thus his overtake doesn't count.

[Jocke1]

So Kobayashi overtook Bianci after the race ended.

Fifty penalty points?

[CoopsII]

Well, it wasnt a classic but it was damn enjoyable. Pleased to see Alonso extract some sort of performance from the Ferrari and some great drives from our rejects. Surely Chiltons finishing record must bet getting noticed by someone further up the grid?

[good_Ralf]

Found this on BBC

[mario]

Well, it wasnt a classic but it was damn enjoyable. Pleased to see Alonso extract some sort of performance from the Ferrari and some great drives from our rejects. Surely Chiltons finishing record must bet getting noticed by someone further up the grid?

Whilst it seems to have given Alonso some joy, it has to be said that it doesn't look like he'll be repeating those antics too many times given the steady improvement of Red Bull.

At least Kamui was able to battle as best he could and gave us one of the few memorable moments, even if his last gasp efforts against Bianchi counted for nought. As for Chilton, I suppose that finishing record does give him a chance of potentially taking Heidfeld's record for the most consecutive finishes (33 races) - he is already in a joint 6th place with Alonso and Barrichello for that honour.

Found this on BBC

You know, it is surprising that both Williams drivers, plus Rosberg and Alonso, were able to continue with no ill effect - those collisions at the start were fairly sizeable impacts, yet none of them seem to have suffered suspension damage. Amusingly, I do believe that Williams did, tongue in cheek, thank Maldonado for that - his propensity for occasional on track contretemps meant that they beefed up the rear suspension to cope...

[Fetzie]

I can think of more than a few smaller collisions of that sort that finished peoples races in the last few seasons, maybe they generally improved the strength of the suspension?

[PT8475]

I wouldn't hand the title to Hamilton just yet - Red Bull are slowly improving, and does no one remember 2012? One win in the first 11 or so races for Mr. Vettel, and then suddenly come Belgium he was off and away - I'd be wary if I were Mercedes. Perhaps their saving grace is that Red Bull appears to have two extremely strong drivers this year, and they would take points off each other in that scenario.

Just saying, don't count your chickens yet, Mercedes.

[Fetzie]

I wouldn't hand the title to Hamilton just yet - Red Bull are slowly improving, and does no one remember 2012? One win in the first 11 or so races for Mr. Vettel, and then suddenly come Belgium he was off and away - I'd be wary if I were Mercedes. Perhaps their saving grace is that Red Bull appears to have two extremely strong drivers this year, and they would take points off each other in that scenario.

Just saying, don't count your chickens yet, Mercedes.

Speed trap data from Saturday afternoon


I'm not sure they can pick up 20 kph. That's the difference the DRS makes.

[F1000X]

What a pleasure it was to watch Vettel's typical 'high-downforce-because-i-won't-need-to-pass-anyone' setup thwart all his efforts to overtake Alonso. Even better to watch the new boy shame him in his own car.

Heartbroken for Massa. Perhaps a bit too aggressive at the start, but it's great to see him fighting so hard, and missing a good chance at points in the pits had to be so demoralizing.

Well done Lewis. This is shaping up to be a great season.

[CoopsII]

I wouldn't hand the title to Hamilton just yet - Red Bull are slowly improving, and does no one remember 2012? One win in the first 11 or so races for Mr. Vettel, and then suddenly come Belgium he was off and away - I'd be wary if I were Mercedes. Perhaps their saving grace is that Red Bull appears to have two extremely strong drivers this year, and they would take points off each other in that scenario.

Just saying, don't count your chickens yet, Mercedes.

Well to be honest, despite being British and a Hamilton fan, we need either Red Bull or Rosberg to get a grip on things to keep things interesting and Im sure they will. Im expecting a three way battle for the title from Hamilton, Rosberg and Ricciardo. Despite Vettel making all the right noises regarding his team mate (mostly) I think we may just be starting to see signs of his frustration boiling over.

[mario]

I wouldn't hand the title to Hamilton just yet - Red Bull are slowly improving, and does no one remember 2012? One win in the first 11 or so races for Mr. Vettel, and then suddenly come Belgium he was off and away - I'd be wary if I were Mercedes. Perhaps their saving grace is that Red Bull appears to have two extremely strong drivers this year, and they would take points off each other in that scenario.

Just saying, don't count your chickens yet, Mercedes.

Speed trap data from Saturday afternoon


I'm not sure they can pick up 20 kph. That's the difference the DRS makes.

There was also a similar difference in top speed during the race itself, where again Mercedes were hitting around 332-337kph and Red Bull 318-322kph (although Alonso's top speed was similar to that of Red Bull too, also in the 322kph mark).

Although the top places were dominated by the Mercedes powered teams, it was notable that a few Renault powered teams (Toro Rosso namely) were also quite fast in the speed traps, so even if the Renault powertrain is slightly down on Mercedes, Red Bull are still a long way off their rivals. They had a similar problem in Bahrain too - they were hitting a similar maximum speed (although in that case they were actually about midway in the speed traps), but only by severely cutting their front and rear wing elements quite noticeably.
It's perhaps a worry for their rivals that Red Bull could do that and still be competitive in the turns, but then again it's not necessarily reassuring for Red Bull that they are still lagging even when trying to cut their drag.

I wouldn't hand the title to Hamilton just yet - Red Bull are slowly improving, and does no one remember 2012? One win in the first 11 or so races for Mr. Vettel, and then suddenly come Belgium he was off and away - I'd be wary if I were Mercedes. Perhaps their saving grace is that Red Bull appears to have two extremely strong drivers this year, and they would take points off each other in that scenario.

Just saying, don't count your chickens yet, Mercedes.

Well to be honest, despite being British and a Hamilton fan, we need either Red Bull or Rosberg to get a grip on things to keep things interesting and Im sure they will. Im expecting a three way battle for the title from Hamilton, Rosberg and Ricciardo. Despite Vettel making all the right noises regarding his team mate (mostly) I think we may just be starting to see signs of his frustration boiling over.

Out of those two, in the short term Rosberg is perhaps the bigger threat to Hamilton given that Rosberg has the same car - now, Rosberg is undoubtedly a competitive driver, but Hamilton at the moment is brimming with confidence after two crushing wins and a hard fought for win in Bahrain, whereas Rosberg has made a few vital mistakes as key moments that have put him on the back foot. If he can have a few clean races, he might be able to pressurise Hamilton again, but currently the momentum within the team seems to be on the other side of the garage.

As for Red Bull, the problem is that Vettel is the driver furthest up in the standings but not the driver who looks more at ease with the car - by Vettel's own admission, Ricciardo seems to have adapted to the car more rapidly than he has. Even so, neither driver currently has the pace to take the fight to Mercedes - OK, the Renault engine has held them back to a certain extent, but although the car looks competitive in the turns it just doesn't have that dominance we expected to see.

They have the resources to fight back and Renault will be desperate to make amends for the negative press they received, but it'll take a sizeable development effort to catch Mercedes. Whilst PT8475 is right to caution that it is not guaranteed that Mercedes's advantage will last, what is helping is that no one driver and team has managed to be consistently best of the rest - if you look down the rankings, Alonso (3rd at the moment) is driving as strongly as ever but the F14T is not a particularly good car, and similarly Hulkenberg (currently in 4th) has the consistency of a front runner but doesn't have the car to match. His results are remarkably consistent - 6th, 5th, 5th and 6th - but just not quite high enough for him to really be much more than best of the midfield, which is a shame.

Vettel (5th) is not comfortable with the car and therefore is not at full potential whilst Ricciardo, although showing more consistent pace at the moment, has been hurt by incompetence on the part of Red Bull. If he'd finished 5th in Australia had Red Bull complied with the fuel flow limit (which is where they claim he would have finished), and picked up 5th in Malaysia (a reasonable, and perhaps even slightly conservative, prospect given his pace), it's not unreasonable to think that Ricciardo could be on about 44 points instead of 24 and be the closest competitor to Mercedes.

[andrew2209]

Found this on BBC

That impact and the one between Massa and Alonso could've taken out 4 front runners in other circumstances, or even more if one of the cars spun out of control.

(I think I just miss the days of Lap 1 carnage giving small teams points)

[PT8475]

I wouldn't hand the title to Hamilton just yet - Red Bull are slowly improving, and does no one remember 2012? One win in the first 11 or so races for Mr. Vettel, and then suddenly come Belgium he was off and away - I'd be wary if I were Mercedes. Perhaps their saving grace is that Red Bull appears to have two extremely strong drivers this year, and they would take points off each other in that scenario.

Just saying, don't count your chickens yet, Mercedes.

Speed trap data from Saturday afternoon


I'm not sure they can pick up 20 kph. That's the difference the DRS makes.

Straight-line speed =/= speed. Red Bull's car was the slowest in the speed traps regularly throughout 2010-2013. Once Renault get improvements onto their engine (and believe me, they'll be rushing like hell to do that), Red Bull's pace will pick up instantly.

[Fetzie]

Straight-line speed =/= speed. Red Bull's car was the slowest in the speed traps regularly throughout 2010-2013. Once Renault get improvements onto their engine (and believe me, they'll be rushing like hell to do that), Red Bull's pace will pick up instantly.

How much are they allowed to change on the engine though? I was under the impression that it is software only until the end of the season? Part of the reason that the Mercedes engine is more powerful is how they arranged the turbo, and I'm pretty sure you can't change things like that after the engine specification deadline at the end of February.

[mario]

Straight-line speed =/= speed. Red Bull's car was the slowest in the speed traps regularly throughout 2010-2013. Once Renault get improvements onto their engine (and believe me, they'll be rushing like hell to do that), Red Bull's pace will pick up instantly.

How much are they allowed to change on the engine though? I was under the impression that it is software only until the end of the season? Part of the reason that the Mercedes engine is more powerful is how they arranged the turbo, and I'm pretty sure you can't change things like that after the engine specification deadline at the end of February.

A reasonable chunk of the engines architecture can be changed during the season (the FIA's regulations indicate only the valve train, cylinder bore spacing and the crankshaft are completely fixed in design), but only if the FIA agrees that the changes are being made on grounds of reliability, safety or cost reduction.

Renault could in theory modify their turbocharger design, I believe, but it would require a substantial modification to the packaging of the Renault engine (it would require splitting the compressor from the exhaust turbine if the reports are to be believed, which would in turn require Renault to modify the oil pump system that currently sits where the compressor would have to go). That wouldn't be an easy change for either Renault or their customers to accommodate, so making a change of that magnitude might have to be left until 2015 - moreover, they would then have to persuade the FIA that the change was being made for reasons other than performance, which might be hard to do.

[watka]

Fastest laps of the race

1. Nico ROSBERG 1'40''402
2. Lewis HAMILTON 1'41''196 + 0.794
3. Daniel RICCIARDO 1'41''473 + 1.071
4. Fernando ALONSO 1'42''081 + 1.679
5. Sebastian VETTEL 1'42''169 + 1.767
6. Sergio PEREZ 1'42''228 + 1.826
7. Esteban GUTIERREZ 1'42''257 + 1.855
8. Kimi RAIKKONEN 1'42''300 + 1.898
9. Felipe MASSA 1'42''379 + 1.977
10. Nico HULKENBERG 1'42''624 + 2.222
11. Valtteri BOTTAS 1'42''660 + 2.258
12. Kevin MAGNUSSEN 1'42''701 + 2.299
13. Max CHILTON 1'42''875 + 2.473


Look at that lap by Rosberg
And Gutierrez 7th & Chilton 13th fastest

I would assume that lap was done in the process of hunting down Alonso for 2nd.

[good_Ralf]

I would assume that lap was done in the process of hunting down Alonso for 2nd.

Not to neglect Jocke1's efforts but here is the full table.

[FullMetalJack]

I would assume that lap was done in the process of hunting down Alonso for 2nd.

Not to neglect Jocke1's efforts but here is the full table.

Quicker laps than Jenson Button and Daniil Kvyat, who made it into the points. Not bad at all.

[James1978]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed8LAp7InaI

Even in a pretty mundane race, MiniDrivers still manage to make an absolute genius video. God I love MiniDrivers. (The Maldonado warning sign is one of the funniest things ever)