Editorial direction of GP Rejects

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 23 Apr 2015, 11:20

Glad to find out this way that you are OK, eytl. Daniel Ricciardo as Driver of the Year 2014 sounds great. As for not knowing about who would be the recipient of the year-end award, Kuwashima has written somewhere else on this thread that he has got a candidate in mind. If you ask him, I'm sure he would tell you who or what it is. In fact, I'm rather certain you're the only one he would tell this to, at least at this point in time.

Scrap Thistlethwayte · Post by **Scrap Thistlethwayte** » 18 May 2015, 16:34

I know we all made a lot of noise when this thread started so can I ask if we're any further forward in terms of commissioning articles from members? Like I said before I have the bones of a few interesting features lying about in my brain.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 30 May 2015, 19:17

And to follow up from the last poster - how is the progress on "reviving" the old stuff going? I fear that the site will gradually lose it's interest and visitors, if nothing shows up.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 30 May 2015, 21:01

Myrvold wrote:And to follow up from the last poster - how is the progress on "reviving" the old stuff going? I fear that the site will gradually lose it's interest and visitors, if nothing shows up.

For that we'd need some people to put themselves forward and agree to take on the burden to first research all available data about the drivers and teams and then edit all that into a well-built article. Now we could use some data from the old articles (they are saved, but we can't publish them as is), but it's still a job that neither I or Biscione can take on.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 30 May 2015, 21:08

Myrvold wrote:And to follow up from the last poster - how is the progress on "reviving" the old stuff going? I fear that the site will gradually lose it's interest and visitors, if nothing shows up.

I'm interested in contributing to the site, but I don't consider myself a good writer, not even in my native language. But if anyone wants to write an article, I'd be happy to help with the research. Maybe I'll even try to write a Dywa article myself.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 30 May 2015, 21:41

Myrvold wrote:And to follow up from the last poster - how is the progress on "reviving" the old stuff going? I fear that the site will gradually lose it's interest and visitors, if nothing shows up.

All the old stuff is ready to go, but for one issue. No permission. Still. I can't do anything until that changes. Please, help me convince him to change his mind...

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 30 May 2015, 22:53

Biscione wrote:
Myrvold wrote:And to follow up from the last poster - how is the progress on "reviving" the old stuff going? I fear that the site will gradually lose it's interest and visitors, if nothing shows up.

All the old stuff is ready to go, but for one issue. No permission. Still. I can't do anything until that changes. Please, help me convince him to change his mind...

By "him", I assume you mean Enoch? Worth a shot I guess. Please, Enoch, if you're reading this, can your wonderfully written content be added to our new home? It was the core of F1 Rejects, please let it be the core of Grand Prix Rejects too.

Or were you thinking more along the lines of spamming his e-mail?

I'm joking. Nobody do that, please.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 31 May 2015, 16:42

I know that one of Enoch's plans at the end of his tenure was to update the MasterCard Lola profile based upon my thread (as seen here). I may well be prepared to work on this myself, beginning in a fortnight, if people wish?

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 31 May 2015, 17:13

dr-baker wrote:I know that one of Enoch's plans at the end of his tenure was to update the MasterCard Lola profile based upon my thread (as seen here). I may well be prepared to work on this myself, beginning in a fortnight, if people wish?

Don't ask, just do it if you want to. What we have at the moment in my mind is lots of people sitting on their hands with ideas and not really doing anything with them. To those people I say just do what you want to do (research, write, or both) and then present what you have here. If it needs further work, reach out to people to give you a hand. But don't say "ooh I think I might do an article on that team/driver/whatever" with no actual intention of doing so.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 31 May 2015, 17:41

AndreaModa wrote:
dr-baker wrote:I know that one of Enoch's plans at the end of his tenure was to update the MasterCard Lola profile based upon my thread (as seen here). I may well be prepared to work on this myself, beginning in a fortnight, if people wish?

Don't ask, just do it if you want to. What we have at the moment in my mind is lots of people sitting on their hands with ideas and not really doing anything with them. To those people I say just do what you want to do (research, write, or both) and then present what you have here. If it needs further work, reach out to people to give you a hand. But don't say "ooh I think I might do an article on that team/driver/whatever" with no actual intention of doing so.

Right, so that's what I will be doing. Incentive might be to be the first to get an article onto the website!

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 03 Jun 2015, 22:28

If we're going to be serious about this, then let's get serious, because to be honest, all I'm seeing here is a lot of pussyfooting around - nobody seriously wanting to turn this into a reality. If you really want to do something, put your hand up and say you will do it. Nobody's gonna tell you to do anything, you need to take charge yourself.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 04 Jun 2015, 18:02

BTW, the old f1rejects.com domain seems to have expired, but it's still linked to Crosswinds, or something like that. I guess we should do something to avoid it from being used (I would register it, but it looks like it's not publicly available either).

SuzukiSwift · Post by **SuzukiSwift** » 04 Jun 2015, 19:51

Is funding an issue? I don't mind donating if need be...would like to see the Profiles back. Also I've been waiting 13 years for the Zakspeed profile.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 04 Jun 2015, 20:00

Salamander wrote:If we're going to be serious about this, then let's get serious, because to be honest, all I'm seeing here is a lot of pussyfooting around - nobody seriously wanting to turn this into a reality. If you really want to do something, put your hand up and say you will do it. Nobody's gonna tell you to do anything, you need to take charge yourself.

I'm definitely making a start on an article over the next few weeks. The research is done. It just needs to be written.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 04 Jun 2015, 20:51

SuzukiSwift wrote:Is funding an issue? I don't mind donating if need be...would like to see the Profiles back. Also I've been waiting 13 years for the Zakspeed profile.

Funding is not an issue at present. The issue is we only have one person at present who has said they are doing anything. Which is a start, but certainly I would not want to dump the responsibility for writing everything on the site on dr-baker.

dr-baker wrote:
Salamander wrote:If we're going to be serious about this, then let's get serious, because to be honest, all I'm seeing here is a lot of pussyfooting around - nobody seriously wanting to turn this into a reality. If you really want to do something, put your hand up and say you will do it. Nobody's gonna tell you to do anything, you need to take charge yourself.

I'm definitely making a start on an article over the next few weeks. The research is done. It just needs to be written.

Excellent - good to hear.

Post by **tommykl** » 04 Jun 2015, 21:07

If I manage to find some time, I can start working on a Johnny Claes profile, but I'm not kidding myself. That's a big "if".

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 04 Jun 2015, 22:56

Ferrim wrote:BTW, the old f1rejects.com domain seems to have expired, but it's still linked to Crosswinds, or something like that. I guess we should do something to avoid it from being used (I would register it, but it looks like it's not publicly available either).

Crosswinds are essentially holding it "hostage" - they registered the domain, thus they own it, and because it was previously a high-volume domain, they see more money in holding onto it and serving ads with it, and hope someone comes along with a big money offer for it, than decide not to pay to renew and release it back to the market. In other words, they continue to register it in bad faith.

Either someone stumps up big money or Crosswinds continues to renew it for themselves in the foreseeable future. I would have registered it by now had it been released back to market at its original expiry.

Scrap Thistlethwayte · Post by **Scrap Thistlethwayte** » 12 Jun 2015, 11:27

Okay I have an article half researched with about 200 words about the first Reject. How many words to we aim for and where should I submit it? I have some images which will be well out of copyright.

Should we also consider linking new articles to Wikipedia pages as we go and siting our sources where possible.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 29 Jun 2015, 12:11

Well ... maybe it's time I stuck my head above the parapet yet again.

I had dinner with Jamie a little while ago. Suffice to say that the topic of previous site content and a return to podcasting remains something of a TWSNBM (Topic Which Shall Not Be Mentioned). We both still need time and space before thinking about it.

So from that perspective, it'll probably a while before we decide what we would like to see happen with the old written content. That really can be quite separate from the question of new material. GP Rejects is now your site, and there are thousands of other stories from the history of the sport waiting to be told, so don't let us hold you back. And although there's stuff I would like to research and write myself, I have no "first call" on anything anymore, so you go right/write ahead.

In the meantime, I'm edging closer to researching and writing again myself, but I must admit one of the question marks I have is whether to contribute to this site or strike out on my own, e.g. by starting my own blog. I lean towards the latter, because then I would have a place where I could write about non-motorsport things as well - such as photography, travel, international affairs, and other sports (e.g. "Why Romania should have won the 1994 World Cup"). If I came up with new F1-related material I would probably be glad to have it reproduced here even if I uploaded it somewhere else. I'm genuinely interested in people's feedback as to what you think I should do; you guys were my long-suffering audience for 15 years, after all. (Feel free to message or email me if you don't want to take this thread too far off-topic.)

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 29 Jun 2015, 13:05

Hi Enoch!

It's good to read from you again and it's nice to see that you still pop by on occasion.

Whatever you decide to do, I would be keen to continue reading your material, whatever the topic! I enjoy a bit of travel myself, and being located on the other side of the world, I tend to visit different places to you. So a blog sounds good to me, but original material for here would be appreciated by the community as well, I would reckon.

As an aside, I am now 900+ words into my version of the history of MasterCard Lola story, and so far I have only reached 1993 (yes, I am including Lola's previous entries into the sport as well, but focussing on their rejectful entry). I am also writing a 500-word article of what defines a reject for both drivers and teams which should be ready this afternoon. Should I email this straight to the contact email address at GP Rejects to be put onto the website, or should there be a thread for new articles so that they can be peer-reviewed before submission?

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 29 Jun 2015, 13:16

dr-baker wrote:Hi Enoch!

It's good to read from you again and it's nice to see that you still pop by on occasion.

Whatever you decide to do, I would be keen to continue reading your material, whatever the topic! I enjoy a bit of travel myself, and being located on the other side of the world, I tend to visit different places to you. So a blog sounds good to me, but original material for here would be appreciated by the community as well, I would reckon.

I share this view. If you want to start a blog, that would be fantastic. I also enjoy photography and travel (even if I haven't done a lot of it yet!), so it is something I would probably read. It would be great too if some F1-related material found its way here. And of course, it's wonderful to hear from you, sir.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 29 Jun 2015, 16:26

Like others, I agree that a personal blog would be the best way to go, Enoch. It'd allow you to write about whatever you want, whenever you want, instead of being restricted to a certain theme. And if you still occasionally dabble with F1 stuff, we could republish those articles here (with your permission, of course) and give you proper credit for them.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 30 Jun 2015, 05:47

I have now finished my article defining "What is a reject?" for the website. What do I do with it to submit it? I think it's useful to have this information published because it is a question that newbies pose every so often, and at the moment, that information is not provided anywhere other than as historical posts hidden away, playing hard to find.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 30 Jun 2015, 11:31

dr-baker wrote:I have now finished my article defining "What is a reject?" for the website. What do I do with it to submit it? I think it's useful to have this information published because it is a question that newbies pose every so often, and at the moment, that information is not provided anywhere other than as historical posts hidden away, playing hard to find.

Good point.

I suppose with this being effectively a new site that may well attract people who never knew of F1 Rejects before, it's especially important to stress that "reject" doesn't mean "rubbish" so any potential conflicts with anyone featured are minimised. I'm sure we all remember the story of how Jamie and Enoch had to explain to Allen Berg that the old site was celebrating his career rather than insulting it.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 01 Jul 2015, 15:59

I take a shot at a Scaarb profile. No promises on a time frame, but I did always find them interesting. Plus, while I'm sure I was in the minority, I always liked the team profiles more than the drivers.

MartinJS81 · Post by **MartinJS81** » 16 Jul 2015, 19:25

Maybe we should start with drivers/teams which were never on F1Rejects, just in case we get the old content back? They onlt really reached Pizzonia and Friesacher, so we have 10 years to cover. Hispania and Caterham for a start, plus so many drivers - Buemi, Alguersuari, bruno Senna, Chandhok, di Grassi, and probably some who haven't done Formula E yet.Bruno Senna especially strikes me as a fascinating story - so much talent before the tragedy, came back into racing, looked really good but seemed unmotivated in a bad car in F1, and they mystifying couldn't beat Maldonado over a season.

Enoch, we're all grateful for your fantastic past work, a lot of it is still out there if you know where to look and I really hope it doesn't get lost in time.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 16 Jul 2015, 23:11

Wallio wrote:I take a shot at a Scaarb profile. No promises on a time frame, but I did always find them interesting. Plus, while I'm sure I was in the minority, I always liked the team profiles more than the drivers.

Whilst I personally disagree, I can see where you're coming from. Teams generally have more longevity than driviers, even if they are pathetic, and the profile is likely to be more detailed.

Imagine how detailed an Osella profile would be, assuming they qualify as rejects, there is some debate on that if i'm correct.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 16 Jul 2015, 23:21

It was the team profiles that brought me to F1 Rejects in the first place. I had (and still have) a bunch of those F1 encyclopaedias which contain team bios, and the smaller, lesser known teams always fascinated me, particularly because they hardly had any information on them.

Coming across the profiles on the old site was brilliant. At that point, I had no idea teams like Andrea Moda and Life had even existed. There was no way of knowing, with just vague books and less internet access.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 16 Jul 2015, 23:38

AndreaModa wrote:It was the team profiles that brought me to F1 Rejects in the first place. I had (and still have) a bunch of those F1 encyclopaedias which contain team bios, and the smaller, lesser known teams always fascinated me, particularly because they hardly had any information on them.

Coming across the profiles on the old site was brilliant. At that point, I had no idea teams like Andrea Moda and Life had even existed. There was no way of knowing, with just vague books and less internet access.

Indeed, I always thought that Minardi was as bad as teams got, and I couldn't have been more wrong if I tried. I always started to look at Minardi in a different way after discovering this website, although I always liked them for the same reasons as everyone else.

Post by **mario** » 17 Jul 2015, 22:11

FullMetalJack wrote:
Wallio wrote:I take a shot at a Scaarb profile. No promises on a time frame, but I did always find them interesting. Plus, while I'm sure I was in the minority, I always liked the team profiles more than the drivers.

Whilst I personally disagree, I can see where you're coming from. Teams generally have more longevity than driviers, even if they are pathetic, and the profile is likely to be more detailed.

Imagine how detailed an Osella profile would be, assuming they qualify as rejects, there is some debate on that if i'm correct.

That is correct - Osella were not awarded points for their 5th place finish in the 1984 Italian GP because the team had entered a second car, driven by Gartner, when their entry rights only entitled Ghinzani to score points.

Under the usual finishing criteria, they would have scored enough points to escape reject status; however, because Gartner was not awarded any points, their points total is just below the threshold to escape rejectdom.

Post by **tommykl** » 18 Jul 2015, 07:05

mario wrote:
FullMetalJack wrote:
Wallio wrote:I take a shot at a Scaarb profile. No promises on a time frame, but I did always find them interesting. Plus, while I'm sure I was in the minority, I always liked the team profiles more than the drivers.

Whilst I personally disagree, I can see where you're coming from. Teams generally have more longevity than driviers, even if they are pathetic, and the profile is likely to be more detailed.

Imagine how detailed an Osella profile would be, assuming they qualify as rejects, there is some debate on that if i'm correct.

That is correct - Osella were not awarded points for their 5th place finish in the 1984 Italian GP because the team had entered a second car, driven by Gartner, when their entry rights only entitled Ghinzani to score points.

Under the usual finishing criteria, they would have scored enough points to escape reject status; however, because Gartner was not awarded any points, their points total is just below the threshold to escape rejectdom.

Not only that, as had the points scored by the ineligible second drivers (Gartner and Beger, who was sixth) been redistributed, fifth place would have gone to Piercarlo Ghinzani!

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 24 Jul 2015, 07:17

After last week's events, the first new article on the site must be Bianchi's.

AustralianStig · Post by **AustralianStig** » 24 Jul 2015, 08:26

Ferrim wrote:After last week's events, the first new article on the site must be Bianchi's.

Go on then, write away.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 24 Jul 2015, 12:48

Ferrim wrote:After last week's events, the first new article on the site must be Bianchi's.

Bianchi isn't a reject now, if my understanding of the rules is correct.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 24 Jul 2015, 13:30

shinji wrote:
Ferrim wrote:After last week's events, the first new article on the site must be Bianchi's.

Bianchi isn't a reject now, if my understanding of the rules is correct.

Yup, I think the old site specifically said that drivers who lost their lives due to accidents at race weekends, i.e. Roger Williamson, Ricardo Paletti and Roland Ratzenberger were ineligible for profiles.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 24 Jul 2015, 14:02

FullMetalJack wrote:
shinji wrote:
Ferrim wrote:After last week's events, the first new article on the site must be Bianchi's.

Bianchi isn't a reject now, if my understanding of the rules is correct.

Yup, I think the old site specifically said that drivers who lost their lives due to accidents at race weekends, i.e. Roger Williamson, Ricardo Paletti and Roland Ratzenberger were ineligible for profiles.

While they were ineligible for profiles, there definitely was a tribute to Ratzenberger in Reject Centrale on F1Rejects.com

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 24 Jul 2015, 20:48

pi314159 wrote:
FullMetalJack wrote:....

While they were ineligible for profiles, there definitely was a tribute to Ratzenberger in Reject Centrale on F1Rejects.com

Indeed reject centrale and submitted articles about these drivers were technically allowed and not against the spirit of the rules. Considering articles about such drivers would usually be a tribute, it's even more important than regular articles that they're well-written.
I personally wouldn't mind reading articles about lesser known drivers as Paletti or Koinigg whose accidents aren't mentioned often and weren't the most talented drivers of their era.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 27 Jul 2015, 21:40

dinizintheoven wrote:
dr-baker wrote:I have now finished my article defining "What is a reject?" for the website. What do I do with it to submit it? I think it's useful to have this information published because it is a question that newbies pose every so often, and at the moment, that information is not provided anywhere other than as historical posts hidden away, playing hard to find.

Good point.

I suppose with this being effectively a new site that may well attract people who never knew of F1 Rejects before, it's especially important to stress that "reject" doesn't mean "rubbish" so any potential conflicts with anyone featured are minimised. I'm sure we all remember the story of how Jamie and Enoch had to explain to Allen Berg that the old site was celebrating his career rather than insulting it.

OK, so I have now attempted submitting this article to Biscione/Alasdair via DropBox/PM for the website. It has ended up at around 1000+ words! Had to sit on it for a bit to make sure I got the overall criteria right (eg there was a debate in the "F1 Rejects - The Definitive Collection" as to whether Alex Rossi counts, so I had to think of how to include that). But yeah, with that and a podcast produced by dinizintheoven (with contributions from tommykl, watka and yours truly), material is beginning to come forth!

Still working on the MasterCard Lola article, though...

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 28 Jul 2015, 15:41

Let's hope this ends up reported on the front page, then!

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 30 Jul 2015, 08:01

eytl wrote:Well ... maybe it's time I stuck my head above the parapet yet again.

I'm genuinely interested in people's feedback as to what you think I should do; you guys were my long-suffering audience for 15 years, after all.

I would definitely read your blog about all things Enoch.
Hope all is well otherwise.