Grand Prix Rejects

done and done

Captain Hammer wrote:

Dj_bereta wrote:according to a Brazilian news program, Bruno Senna is close to sign with Williams for 2012 (replacing Rubens Barrichello).

The Brazilians are worse than the Spanish. While the Spanish make up news stories, the Brazilians simply believe anything they're told. They did it about this time last year, too, announcing that Bruno Senna had a drive for 2011.

</sight/>

And now I'll to have to create ANOTHER user....

Dude, I was about to forget this account password, and, really, I have a life!

This wont go unpunished! Believe me!


As soon I have time I'm gonna post that Spanish Press says that the CERN proved that Petrov's talent is far better tha Fangio, Nuvolari, Schumacher and Emanuelle Pirro combined... I really want to see you wallowing on the floor like an epileptic colapsing into paradox...

I warned you.

nome66 wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

Dj_bereta wrote:according to a Brazilian news program, Bruno Senna is close to sign with Williams for 2012 (replacing Rubens Barrichello).

The Brazilians are worse than the Spanish. While the Spanish make up news stories, the Brazilians simply believe anything they're told. They did it about this time last year, too, announcing that Bruno Senna had a drive for 2011.

ehem.
"Autosport or it didn't happen"

eh, but who's to say Mclaren won't step up and let him get-PFFFFTTTTHAAAAHAHAHAHA nevermind nevermind

That's almost as good as the talk about Petrov going to McLaren - the difference being that, unlike the Russian press, your comments were not expected to be taken seriously...

On a serious note, though, the most likely route for Bruno Senna to remain within the sport is as a test driver. Although Bruno's contacts with business mean that he can bring in a fair amount of backing (think of Embratel and Gilette, for example), there are several experienced drivers on the market (like Sutil) and he didn't seem optimistic that he'd get a seat. Boullier has already said that he'd be prepared to keep Bruno on as a test driver; I think that the best that Bruno can hope for would be to resume his role as test driver and hope either Grosjean or Kimi leave the team midway through the season.

kostas22 wrote:Brazil's second largest media company is basically just a front for one of those religions which take the moronic fools who (literally) buy into it for every penny they are worth.

When this is part of one of the most influential mass media companies in a country, you know almost nothing reported in the news is true. Ever.

So yes, whatever the Brazilian media reports, you can safely assume the opposite will happen.

(hypothetical)
"It NEVER rains on the IndyCar race in Sao Palo"

nome66 wrote::mrgreen:

do it do it do it do it do it!!


but as i have learned with all news on this website, Autosport or it didn't happen

Erm, this?

Rubens Barrichello seems confident:

just came back from England...now some holidays...and waiting for good news from Williams...speak later...byeeee

Some Brazilian journalists seem to be backing him, now. I think what might have set them off was the talk that Adrian Sutil would replace Felipe Massa at Ferrari and that Kamui Kobayashi would move to Williams to make way for Jules Bianchi. That would make for a grid with no Brazilian drivers on it.

Sutil at Ferrari? Not happening in 2012, I think, but he should be a better second driver, that's for sure.

Seems a bit far fetched but logical at the same time. Bianchi gets put in the Sauber to make way for Kobayashi, no point in sugar-coating it, if Ferrari want to do it they will, Sauber haven't really got a choice. This frees up a test-driver, the main test-driver role, at Ferrari. Up steps Sutil, who keeps himself busy and gets to know the car and team, ready for a full-time drive alongside Alonso in 2013.

Could happen.

AdrianSutil wrote:Seems a bit far fetched but logical at the same time. Bianchi gets put in the Sauber to make way for Kobayashi, no point in sugar-coating it, if Ferrari want to do it they will, Sauber haven't really got a choice. This frees up a test-driver, the main test-driver role, at Ferrari. Up steps Sutil, who keeps himself busy and gets to know the car and team, ready for a full-time drive alongside Alonso in 2013.

Could happen.

So Sutil effectively becomes Ferrari's insurance policy if:
A. Kubica proves to not be disappointing after his accident OR
B. Bianchi proves to be, frankly, crap OR
C. Both

Correct?

I think those seem like a lot of moves for January. I mean, why leave it late in the pre-season? (unless you are cash strapped or waiting on others)

Wizzie wrote:

AdrianSutil wrote:Seems a bit far fetched but logical at the same time. Bianchi gets put in the Sauber to make way for Kobayashi, no point in sugar-coating it, if Ferrari want to do it they will, Sauber haven't really got a choice. This frees up a test-driver, the main test-driver role, at Ferrari. Up steps Sutil, who keeps himself busy and gets to know the car and team, ready for a full-time drive alongside Alonso in 2013.

Could happen.

So Sutil effectively becomes Ferrari's insurance policy if:
A. Kubica proves to not be disappointing after his accident OR
B. Bianchi proves to be, frankly, crap OR
C. Both

Correct?

You really hate Bianchi for some reason.

eurobrun wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

AdrianSutil wrote:Seems a bit far fetched but logical at the same time. Bianchi gets put in the Sauber to make way for Kobayashi, no point in sugar-coating it, if Ferrari want to do it they will, Sauber haven't really got a choice. This frees up a test-driver, the main test-driver role, at Ferrari. Up steps Sutil, who keeps himself busy and gets to know the car and team, ready for a full-time drive alongside Alonso in 2013.

Could happen.

So Sutil effectively becomes Ferrari's insurance policy if:
A. Kubica proves to not be disappointing after his accident OR
B. Bianchi proves to be, frankly, crap OR
C. Both

Correct?

You really hate Bianchi for some reason.

Just like you hate Grosjean

The main problem I have with Bianchi is Ferrari seem to believe that he is the next big thing when he's really been far too inconsistent in GP2 in the past two years to be ready for F1 yet.

I don't like Bianchi because he doesn't want to take his racing heritage into account and get a bloody Belgian racing license

tommykl wrote:I don't like Bianchi because he doesn't want to take his racing heritage into account and get a bloody Belgian racing license

Part of the reason I support Josh Hill as he progresses through the ranks - he does take racing heritage into account and races with the same helmet design as his father and grandfather.

dr-baker wrote:

tommykl wrote:I don't like Bianchi because he doesn't want to take his racing heritage into account and get a bloody Belgian racing license

Part of the reason I support Josh Hill as he progresses through the ranks - he does take racing heritage into account and races with the same helmet design as his father and grandfather.

Part of the reason I hold a bit of grudging respect for Marco Andretti (but even more for Michael) is that he takes racing heritage into account while still being his own man.

Mario Andretti always raced with a silver helmet with a red stripe, a tradition that Michael followed, but Michael added a little American flag going around the bottom. Marco uses basically the same design as Michael, but Marco's stripe is blue.

Cynon wrote:

dr-baker wrote:

tommykl wrote:I don't like Bianchi because he doesn't want to take his racing heritage into account and get a bloody Belgian racing license

Part of the reason I support Josh Hill as he progresses through the ranks - he does take racing heritage into account and races with the same helmet design as his father and grandfather.

Part of the reason I hold a bit of grudging respect for Marco Andretti (but even more for Michael) is that he takes racing heritage into account while still being his own man.

Even more grudgingly or even more respect for Michael?

tommykl wrote:I don't like Bianchi because he doesn't want to take his racing heritage into account and get a bloody Belgian racing license

well, despite i get your point, i live pretty close to the famous L.Bianchi corner after all (and for that matter, the rest of zolder)but truth be told Mauro Bianchi did race under a French license.
But Mauro never scored a podium in F1 and never raced in F1 at all actually and also never won le mans like Lucien did.
So it's just what part of the heritage he wants to follow, his great uncle, or his decent father.

Wizzie wrote:

AdrianSutil wrote:Seems a bit far fetched but logical at the same time. Bianchi gets put in the Sauber to make way for Kobayashi, no point in sugar-coating it, if Ferrari want to do it they will, Sauber haven't really got a choice. This frees up a test-driver, the main test-driver role, at Ferrari. Up steps Sutil, who keeps himself busy and gets to know the car and team, ready for a full-time drive alongside Alonso in 2013.

Could happen.

So Sutil effectively becomes Ferrari's insurance policy if:
A. Kubica proves to not be disappointing after his accident OR
B. Bianchi proves to be, frankly, crap OR
C. Both

Correct?

Basically, yeah. I honestly think Sutil could do a decent job at a big team, he certainly wouldn't be as bad as Massa was this year!

As for Kubica and Bianchi, I can't see Kubica driving for Ferrari. He might return to F1, but never for Ferrari. Bianchi meanwhile, is wildly over-rated, and is nothing more than a 2002-spec Felipe Massa.

dr-baker"[quote="Cynon wrote:

dr-baker wrote:

tommykl wrote:I don't like Bianchi because he doesn't want to take his racing heritage into account and get a bloody Belgian racing license

Part of the reason I support Josh Hill as he progresses through the ranks - he does take racing heritage into account and races with the same helmet design as his father and grandfather.

Part of the reason I hold a bit of grudging respect for Marco Andretti (but even more for Michael) is that he takes racing heritage into account while still being his own man.

Even more grudgingly or even more respect for Michael?/quote]

I hold a lot of respect for Michael Andretti as a driver despite the fact that he was a whiner sometimes. Marco Andretti has moments (Iowa) when he drives like his dad, but most of the time he doesn't and derps around. Should have phrased that better, my mistake.

Do you remember a couple of years ago (well, about 2008) journos were all talking about how Marco Andretti would be the next big thing in F1? Now he's not given a second thought...

Before GP2 loads of drivers would just jump from F3, RWS and suchlike straight into F1 (admittedly, they had test seats but still), but there never seemed to be enough drivers. Now, there are maybe too many. Any of the top 5 in last years GP2 season could easily slot into an F1 seat (eg. Grosjean, Pic, maybe even van der Garde), Riccardo and Vergne bypassed GP2 completely and there's a whole host of already blooded drivers that don't even have seats right now.

I wish there were some actual serious new entries for 2012 to get a couple of the drivers into some seats, but I'd imagine that 2014 is the closest we can hope for with new engine regs and suchlike. I'd like to see a couple more manufacturers get behind some engine design just for variety, now there's 4 Renault powered teams, 3 Ferrari, 3 Merc and 2 Cosworth. The PURE entry is still unclear whether that's going ahead, and it would be good to see Honda back(ha, yeah right) and maybe Audi/VW entering as a name.

And lastly, why would Ferrari hire Kubica when they've seen an injured driver (Massa) come back and not even be half as good as his best? You'd think Perez would be a far better option once he matures a little more as he's a very quick driver. In the couple of GP2 races I've seen this year, Bianchi hasn't really impressed me that much, not as much as Vietoris has.

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:why would Ferrari hire Kubica when they've seen an injured driver (Massa) come back and not even be half as good as his best?

Because Kubica isn't Massa. It's very hard to prove that Massa's slump in form is a direct result of his accident, but let's assume for the minute that it is: what on earth does that have to do with Robert Kubica's recovery? Massa and Kubica had two very different injuries in two very different places on the body.

And if the rumours of Ferrari hiring Kubica are to be believed, they are not committing to him for 2013. They are simply willing to make a testing chassis available to him for 2012, an put him in a race seat or 2013 if he is up to it.

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:Do you remember a couple of years ago (well, about 2008) journos were all talking about how Marco Andretti would be the next big thing in F1? Now he's not given a second thought...

Before GP2 loads of drivers would just jump from F3, RWS and suchlike straight into F1 (admittedly, they had test seats but still), but there never seemed to be enough drivers. Now, there are maybe too many. Any of the top 5 in last years GP2 season could easily slot into an F1 seat (eg. Grosjean, Pic, maybe even van der Garde), Riccardo and Vergne bypassed GP2 completely and there's a whole host of already blooded drivers that don't even have seats right now.

I wish there were some actual serious new entries for 2012 to get a couple of the drivers into some seats, but I'd imagine that 2014 is the closest we can hope for with new engine regs and suchlike. I'd like to see a couple more manufacturers get behind some engine design just for variety, now there's 4 Renault powered teams, 3 Ferrari, 3 Merc and 2 Cosworth. The PURE entry is still unclear whether that's going ahead, and it would be good to see Honda back(ha, yeah right) and maybe Audi/VW entering as a name.

And lastly, why would Ferrari hire Kubica when they've seen an injured driver (Massa) come back and not even be half as good as his best? You'd think Perez would be a far better option once he matures a little more as he's a very quick driver. In the couple of GP2 races I've seen this year, Bianchi hasn't really impressed me that much, not as much as Vietoris has.

I don't think that we'll see any manufacturers return to the sport for a few years yet - Honda's current management is exactly the same as the team that cut their losses back in 2009 and may still be too embarrassed at throwing away a championship winning design for nothing to want to return to the sport just yet.

Besides, their finances have been squeezed recently due to catastrophic flooding in Thailand (they had to ask their workers in Swindon to cut down to three half shifts a week or risk running out of parts together, not to mention cutting production in North America by about 50%, with those workers only returning to full shifts about a week ago), an increasingly expensive yen and high commodity prices.
Add to that their sales in the Us have been falling recently, and you have a situation in which few senior executives are going to be willing to spend €100-140 million a year (Renault Sport spends about €120 million a year on a frozen specification engine, with the teams only paying them about €60 million).

As for VW, they were offered their chance to influence the 2014 rules but rejected it, claiming that the other teams and FIA were not willing to open up the rules as much as they wanted them to. Admittedly, that is probably because the other teams feared that VW would simply outspend them into oblivion - the ACO is currently under considerable pressure from Audi to loosen the rules even though Audi are openly and unapologetically saying that doing so will cause widespread cost inflation and spending wars in the LMP category.
VW has money to burn right now - their sports car team could afford to develop the R15, R15+ and R18 at the same time and currently carries out more testing than the entire Formula 1 field combined - but they now seem more interested in boosting their influence within sports car racing (Porsche returning to the LMP1 class, for example) and in WRC than in Formula 1. At the very least, the VW Group probably believes that it has more leverage with the ACO than the FIA (even though the most recent regulation changes have, for once, hit the diesel powered teams instead of the petrol powered outfits, they still retain a sizeable advantage)...

PURE is a curious case - we've essentially heard next to nothing from them for a long time (the last piece of news about them was the argument over PURE poaching the FIA's former technical inspector, without the FIA insisting on "gardening leave", amid concerns from Renault over potential industrial espionage). It's difficult to know what exactly to make of them - on the one hand, they have some very solid supporters (Meccachrome, for example, are partnering them), but when other outfits, like Mercedes, are already carrying out their preliminary bench tests, the occasional press release from PURE to confirm that everything is on track wouldn't go amiss.
Even if they come into the sport, it could well be at the expense of Cosworth - Cosworth wasn't entirely happy that the new engine rules have possibly opened the gates to increased spending on engines, whilst their dwindling customer base (with Williams and possibly HRT moving to Renault engines) won't help their funding either.

Anyway, onto Kubica. I can see Ferrari still wishing to hire Kubica if, and only if, there is strong evidence that he can perform as well as he has done in the past. In other words, they presumably want Kubica to take part in a test session first - but with relations between Kubica and Boullier cooling rapidly, not to mention the news that the team are now looking to put Kimi into an old car before the pre-season tests (instead of Kubica), who would be prepared to offer Kubica a test drive? Ferrari might, but at the same time they are keen on Perez - the fact they offered Perez a chance to test for them, and it is a little unusual for Ferrari to offer a test session to a rookie, suggests they are eyeing him up as a potential alternative. I do think that, unless Kubica can get back into a car this year and drive the wheels off it like he used to, it could well be that Ferrari poach Perez at the end of 2012 as a replacement to Massa (since his contract expires next year and Ferrari have made it clear that he either has to pick up his pace or leave).

mario wrote:As for VW, they were offered their chance to influence the 2014 rules but rejected it, claiming that the other teams and FIA were not willing to open up the rules as much as they wanted them to.

I believe Audi were really pushing for inline-fours from 2014; they and Renault were the driving force behind the design. The other teams didn't respond too well to this, possibly because there was no guarantee that Audi would join the grid (either as an engine supplier or as a team) even if the inline-fours were approved.

You forgot Luca Filippi and Adam Carroll were both originally members of the Honda young driver program. Two of the greatest talents of the last decade never to appear in F1 (plus Bruno Junqueira)

Captain Hammer wrote:

mario wrote:As for VW, they were offered their chance to influence the 2014 rules but rejected it, claiming that the other teams and FIA were not willing to open up the rules as much as they wanted them to.

I believe Audi were really pushing for inline-fours from 2014; they and Renault were the driving force behind the design. The other teams didn't respond too well to this, possibly because there was no guarantee that Audi would join the grid (either as an engine supplier or as a team) even if the inline-fours were approved.

If I remember correctly they even back-out before FIA changed its mind and announced V6's. FIA were adamant, at that time, that they would go for turbocharged inline-4's and even officially declared that those were the rules for 2014. PURE was already working on that basis before the rulebook U-turn. Perhaps VW refused joining F1 over aero rules.

I don't want to turn this into a gossip thread, but rumour has it that Fernando Alonso is now very good friends with a Swiss model of Russian origin:

http://resizer.lasprovincias.es/resizer ... rypt=false

The Whole Spanish Press, as you'd expect, is now reporting on the issue. Even the "sport" press.

Ferrim wrote:I don't want to turn this into a gossip thread, but rumour has it that Fernando Alonso is now very good friends with a Swiss model of Russian origin:

http://resizer.lasprovincias.es/resizer ... rypt=false

The Whole Spanish Press, as you'd expect, is now reporting on the issue. Even the "sport" press.

The main reason for me not to believe this is that the photo was apparently taken in 2036

tommykl wrote:

Ferrim wrote:I don't want to turn this into a gossip thread, but rumour has it that Fernando Alonso is now very good friends with a Swiss model of Russian origin:

http://resizer.lasprovincias.es/resizer ... rypt=false

The Whole Spanish Press, as you'd expect, is now reporting on the issue. Even the "sport" press.

The main reason for me not to believe this is that the photo was apparently taken in 2036

You are seeing it wrong way, tommykl. It means that The Whole Spanish Press is so ahead of others that they report in future events. This also mean that the fountain of youth will be found and that Alonso will still be driving for Ferrari. Finally, that Barrichello is probably still around!

DanielPT wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

mario wrote:As for VW, they were offered their chance to influence the 2014 rules but rejected it, claiming that the other teams and FIA were not willing to open up the rules as much as they wanted them to.

I believe Audi were really pushing for inline-fours from 2014; they and Renault were the driving force behind the design. The other teams didn't respond too well to this, possibly because there was no guarantee that Audi would join the grid (either as an engine supplier or as a team) even if the inline-fours were approved.

If I remember correctly they even back-out before FIA changed its mind and announced V6's. FIA were adamant, at that time, that they would go for turbocharged inline-4's and even officially declared that those were the rules for 2014. PURE was already working on that basis before the rulebook U-turn. Perhaps VW refused joining F1 over aero rules.

Newey did state quite clearly that the inline four cylinder designs was intended to lure the VW Group into the sport, even though it wasn't the first choice of most designers in the field (the reduced torsional rigidity of an inline four cylinder engine could have caused a few problems with the chassis design, for a start).
As it was, though, it seems that VW ended up at loggerheads with the existing suppliers, particularly Cosworth, since they were not prepared to open up the rules as aggressively as VW wanted them to (Cosworth were the most vocal since they feared that VW's proposals could cause a major spending war, though all of the manufacturers had some concerns that VW was not only interested in technological transfer but a chance to exercise its financial muscle power). Added to that, it does seem that VW, in common with Ferrari and to a lesser extent Mercedes, were pushing for a reduction in the importance of aerodynamics in F1 and a more prominent role for the drivetrain manufacturers - predictably, though, the current top teams were less willing to agree to something that could send them falling back down the field...

Whole Spanish Press wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

Dj_bereta wrote:according to a Brazilian news program, Bruno Senna is close to sign with Williams for 2012 (replacing Rubens Barrichello).

The Brazilians are worse than the Spanish. While the Spanish make up news stories, the Brazilians simply believe anything they're told. They did it about this time last year, too, announcing that Bruno Senna had a drive for 2011.

</sight/>

And now I'll to have to create ANOTHER user....

Dude, I was about to forget this account password, and, really, I have a life!

This wont go unpunished! Believe me!


As soon I have time I'm gonna post that Spanish Press says that the CERN proved that Petrov's talent is far better tha Fangio, Nuvolari, Schumacher and Emanuelle Pirro combined... I really want to see you wallowing on the floor like an epileptic colapsing into paradox...

I warned you.

You're Popi_Larrauri

Latest rumour out of Russia: Vitaly Petrov will join Ferrari as a third driver, possibly with a Friday program at every Grand Prix (except Austin - Alonso and Massa would need as much time as possible to learn the circuit) and would be the most-likely candidate to replace Massa if he were to be stood down.

It kind of makes sense when you think about it, especially if Jules Bianchi gets palced at Sauber. They've already said that Massa needs to improve in 2012 if he wants to stand any chance of staying with the team, but if he does not perform, he would likely be replaced. But with Bianchi at Sauber, Ferrari would have a choice between Giancarlo Fisichella or Marc Gene. Neither is a particularly appealing choice, largely because they have no experience with the Pirelli tyres, and although Ferrari could get Bianchi (or, for that matter, Perez) out of his Sauber contract, a lot would hinge on his race performances and how quickly he could become available - the last time Ferrari needed a mid-season driver change, it took them a month to secure Fisichella, and they really can't afford to make that mistake twice. So a driver with recent experience, the potential for improvement, and plenty of sponsors is exactly what Ferrari is looking for in their third driver. And it's not like they've never taken an underwhelming driver on-board and straightened him out before - they did it with Felipe Massa. The problem from Petrov's point of view is that Ferrari would have four other options for 2013 (either retaining Massa or replacing him with Kubica, Perez or Bianchi), so there is no guarantee that he would get a race start with them, and Ferrari are in the habit of "encouraging" their drivers and personnel to take a year off once they leave the team so as to prevent their technical secrets from being spread around (it's no coincidence that Sauber were the first team to get a passive F-duct working in 2010 after they signed Pedro de la Rosa). However, if Petrov is paying to be their third driver (and if he takes on a Friday role - which Ferrari have never done - then I think he would be paying), they would not be able to stop him going elsewhere for 2013, and a year with Ferrari would make him a very attractive prospect for other teams come then.

Still, I don't think there is much to it. I suspect this rumour has been born out of someone seeing that Ferrari have a Russian sponsor/technical partner - Kaspersky Lab - and figuring that this somehow mkes Vitaly Petrov a potential candidate for the team. I think it is far more likely that he will replace Jarno Trulli at Caterham, because Martin Brundle took the rather unusual step of commenting on it via Twitter. He almost never comments on the driver market unless he has a reason to, and he very rarely posts or reposts rumours. So if he thinks Petrov will end up at Caterham, he obviously has a reason for thinking this.

And Yawno Trulli is still in F1 because????????????

golic_2004 wrote:And Yawno Trulli is still in F1 because????????????

He's actually a pay-driver in disguise, and he's supplying for 50% of Caterhams' budget!

Not really...

golic_2004 wrote:And Yawno Trulli is still in F1 because????????????

He's helped the team tremendously develop its car's power steering.

Minardi Man wrote:

golic_2004 wrote:And Yawno Trulli is still in F1 because????????????

He's helped the team tremendously develop its car's power steering.

For his own benefit.

golic_2004 wrote:And Yawno Trulli is still in F1 because????????????

According to the rumours, Trulli was asking for too much money for a single season when his contract was renewed for 2011. The team felt that a two-year contract was more-appropriate for the amount that he was asking for, so they offered him as much: 2011 with an option on 2012. However, because Trulli is visibly slower than he once was and as pretty much been a liability all year, the team are said to be trying to get rid of him. Trulli's Caterham seat will be avaialble to anyone who can pay the outstanding balance on his contract.

Rumours about Marc Gene to HRT.

solarcold wrote:Rumours about Marc Gene to HRT.

Reject-tastic!

jpm wrote:

solarcold wrote:Rumours about Marc Gene to HRT.

Reject-tastic!

And even though I'm a liuzzi-fan, this possibility makes me none less intrigued.

If Gene does go to HRT would that be the first time a driver line-up has ever been made up of two guys that had time away from the sport to do it?