Grand Prix Rejects

Captain Hammer wrote:Back on-topic ...

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 6892&FS=F1

Blick are reporting that a) Sutil and di Resta will race for Force India in 2011, with Hulkenberg driving on Fridays; and b) Toro Rosso will be purchased by a group of Arab investors.

The first announcement is not totally surprising, given how well Di Resta did during the season in the practise sessions and the post season Pirelli tests. Frankly, the announcement is overdue by now, and it will be interesting to see what Sutil can do if Di Resta proves to be a tougher opponent. Either way, if true it now means that there are only two seats which have not yet been filled (apart from third driver positions) - which would be for the team which we are not sure will still exist by Bahrain, HRT.
Curiously, Willi Weber is rumoured to have said that Hulkenberg was in talks with Mclaren over Hulkenberg replacing their third driver - but I don't recall Mclaren announcing that they would drop Paffett.

As for the story about Toro Rosso being sold, well, that will please Red Bull considerably, because they've been trying to get rid of the team ever since the rules on customer cars were tightened up. I'll be interested to see, though, who would want to buy a Formula 1 team - perhaps a sovereign wealth fund might have the sort of money needed to buy and run a team?

mario wrote:As for the story about Toro Rosso being sold, well, that will please Red Bull considerably, because they've been trying to get rid of the team ever since the rules on customer cars were tightened up. I'll be interested to see, though, who would want to buy a Formula 1 team - perhaps a sovereign wealth fund might have the sort of money needed to buy and run a team?

Well from memory the asking price for Toro Rosso was about 30 million pounds which for an F1 team in this day and age is bargain of the century stuff. However the costs of running the team...

Different year. Same stories.

mario wrote:Curiously, Willi Weber is rumoured to have said that Hulkenberg was in talks with Mclaren over Hulkenberg replacing their third driver - but I don't recall Mclaren announcing that they would drop Paffett.

It's not rumour when they quote im directly. If Blick were making things up when they supposedly quoted him, they could get into a whole lot of trouble.

And you're right in saying McLaren never announced dropping Paffet.

As I understand it Force India cannot as yet name their definitive line up for 2011. They want Sutil/diResta with Hulk as reserve. However they have a valid contract with Liuzzi for 2011, lodged with the contract recognition board & signed back in 2008. They will either have to buy Liuzzi off or perhaps pay for him to drive for another team (only HRT appears open at the moment). The alternative is another court battle & Mallya keeps losing those.

Captain Hammer wrote:

mario wrote:Curiously, Willi Weber is rumoured to have said that Hulkenberg was in talks with Mclaren over Hulkenberg replacing their third driver - but I don't recall Mclaren announcing that they would drop Paffett.

It's not rumour when they quote im directly. If Blick were making things up when they supposedly quoted him, they could get into a whole lot of trouble.

And you're right in saying McLaren never announced dropping Paffet.

Ah, ok - I'd only been able to read second hand reports of Blick's original article, so I was not sure whether it was a direct quotation or supposition from a comment he had made. Thanks for clearing that up, by the way.

Now, whilst the focus has predominantly been on where the drivers have been moving, or not moving as has generally been the case this year, the engineers back stage are not standing still either. According to Autosport, Ferrari have decided to restructure their team in the wake of criticism over the way that they handled the race in Abu Dhabi.

So, Chris Dyer, the current race track engineer, has been replaced from today by Pat Fry, who has come across from Mclaren. This is not to say that Dyer is out of Ferrari altogether, as the current press release suggests that Dyer will be transferred to another department, not sacked outright. Ferrari have also created a new Operations Research department, which will be headed up by a former Red Bull Racing and Mclaren employee, Neil Martin, and will report directly to Aldo Costa.

However, and this is important, Ferrari are not intending to make massive changes to their back room staff, since they do not want to make any rash knee jerk decisions in response to the criticism that they've faced recently. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88808

mario wrote:This is not to say that Dyer is out of Ferrari altogether, as the current press release suggests that Dyer will be transferred to another department, not sacked outright.

In other words, they hold him responsible for what happened in Abu Dhabi, but they still think he's valuable and they don't want anyone else to pick him up.

That's mad - it' like football managers having to resign if they had a couple of bad games!!!

I read today Dyer was responsible for Schumacher's 4-stop strategy at Magny-Cours '04, but not many would have thought that one up!!!

James1978 wrote:That's mad - it' like football managers having to resign if they had a couple of bad games!!!

Yeah, but that's kind of understandable. In the case of an under-performing football team, the manager is the one who clearly has the most accountability. However, in Formula 1, there are several people who have accountability. Singling one person out as responsible is only going to create problems.

Apparently Force India has confirmed di Resta, at long last:

http://www.italiaracing.net/translatene ... =1&lang=en

Captain Hammer wrote:

mario wrote:This is not to say that Dyer is out of Ferrari altogether, as the current press release suggests that Dyer will be transferred to another department, not sacked outright.

In other words, they hold him responsible for what happened in Abu Dhabi, but they still think he's valuable and they don't want anyone else to pick him up.

I don't think that it was just Abu Dhabi, though, as I think that he might have also been behind the mistaken qualifying call in Malaysia, where Ferrari mistakenly thought that the rain would ease off when it didn't. However, it is probably true that Abu Dhabi was the tipping point, given how vocal the criticism was from the media about their decision, even if it might not have been his decision alone.
But, as you say, Dyer is still a capable organiser, and potentially a major catch for the midfield teams, so it's not surprising that they're trying to hold onto him.

Faustus wrote:Apparently Force India has confirmed di Resta, at long last:

http://www.italiaracing.net/translatene ... =1&lang=en

It would be about time too, and it'll be interesting to see how secure Sutil feels in his seat if Hulkenberg is testing his car on alternate Friday sessions. With a potentially more competitive and consistent team mate and a reserve driver out to prove a point, Sutil will be forced to raise his game, so we'll have to wait and see what he has got.

I do wonder, though, how Force India have persuaded Liuzzi to leave the team. After all, Liuzzi hasn't obviously breached his contract, and although beaten solidly by Sutil, probably has not underperformed badly enough for "lack of performance" to be accepted as a reason for dismissal. So, the most likely scenario is that Force India would have to buy Liuzzi out of his contract to make room for Di Resta, and I doubt that would have been cheap.

On the topic if Force India;

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2500 ... rce-india/

“Obviously Nico Hülkenberg’s around as well, he’s another guy, but he’d probably want more money than I would be prepared to pay him if I was in Vijay’s position, so if it was between Sutil who was bringing a bit of sponsorship with him and Hülkenberg, I would probably go for Sutil, but if Hülkenberg wanted to drive for nothing - but I was able to pay him a few bonuses for podium finishes and the odd pole - I would consider him very strongly as well.”

No mention given to Paul di Resta

And...http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2500 ... ts-liuzzi/

“The team hasn’t said anything to me,” Italian Liuzzi explained to 422race.com. “I have a contract to drive and I want to drive. My situation is clear: Force India has informed me of any changes and for me only the team’s words are valid. I’m staying pretty quiet because I have a very clear contract with the team for the 2011 season and, should they decide to take another route, I will know about it.”

When asked if he has been offered a sum of money in exchange for parting with his drive, Liuzzi responded:

“I have not been offered anything. As I said, Force India have not spoken of anything like that with me and they say that all of the talk which is around is not important. Having said that, anything can happen on the run up to February - Formula 1 doesn’t surprise me anymore. For now, though, I have not been offered anything – money or, as I have read elsewhere, a seat in the DTM.

“You can never be sure. I will not feel complete security until the first Grand Prix on March 15 but I’m sure I have a very good contract with them. I waited two years as a third driver, so of course I want to keep my seat. If they decide to take another route, I would certainly not just say ‘good night’ and retire.

“I have a contract to run and I want to run. I am 100 percent linked to Force India, I have a clear situation with them, they’ve never said the opposite and in fact they’ve always supported my position for racing in 2011.”

Faustus wrote:Apparently Force India has confirmed di Resta, at long last:

http://www.italiaracing.net/translatene ... =1&lang=en

That's not confirmation. Firstly, they don't quote anyone in a position to confirm the change (ie, di Resta, Mallya, etc.). And secondly, it's clearly been written off the retracted Blick article.

Though I am a little bemused at the way the writer seems outraged that there will only be one Italian driver this year ...

Captain Hammer wrote:

Faustus wrote:Apparently Force India has confirmed di Resta, at long last:

http://www.italiaracing.net/translatene ... =1&lang=en

That's not confirmation. Firstly, they don't quote anyone in a position to confirm the change (ie, di Resta, Mallya, etc.). And secondly, it's clearly been written off the retracted Blick article.

Though I am a little bemused at the way the writer seems outraged that there will only be one Italian driver this year ...

And they called Di Resta English

kostas22 wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

Faustus wrote:Apparently Force India has confirmed di Resta, at long last:

http://www.italiaracing.net/translatene ... =1&lang=en

That's not confirmation. Firstly, they don't quote anyone in a position to confirm the change (ie, di Resta, Mallya, etc.). And secondly, it's clearly been written off the retracted Blick article.

Though I am a little bemused at the way the writer seems outraged that there will only be one Italian driver this year ...

And they called Di Resta English

And they claim Liuzzi is 2 years older than he is.

Overall, not the most trustworthy or definitive article, I think we can agree.

Captain Hammer wrote:

Faustus wrote:Apparently Force India has confirmed di Resta, at long last:

http://www.italiaracing.net/translatene ... =1&lang=en

That's not confirmation. Firstly, they don't quote anyone in a position to confirm the change (ie, di Resta, Mallya, etc.). And secondly, it's clearly been written off the retracted Blick article.

Though I am a little bemused at the way the writer seems outraged that there will only be one Italian driver this year ...

Hence the use of the word 'apparently' at the start of the post.

According to Jon Noble on Twitter, everyone's second favourite Indian Formula One driver has signed to race for HRT.

To use the words of Victor Meldrew; I DONT BELIEVE IT!!!!!!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88821

Narain we salute you

Finally, now this is what I call a nice off-season surprise.

So HRT have now in their short history signed two Indian drivers. HRT is a Spanish team, not Indian. Force India has not had any Indian drivers, depite being Indian. And neither team have signed DLR, Alonso nor the Alguersaurus, despite HRT's Spanishness.

Incredible! Who saw that one coming then eh?

I think we can expect some rather large Tata logos on the HRT cars next year if they ever make it to the grid. Having said that, Tata does in fact own both Land Rover and Jaguar, future buyout and rebranding to Jaguar Racing perhaps?!

Shouldn't he, in terms of rejectdom, be everyone's absolute favourite Indian driver?
Shame for Chandhok, though, as Ecclestone certainly won't preassure anyone into signing a second Indian driver now.

Naming the Cosworth Tata would be pretty neat, though. HRTTATA. Or maybe they could sponsor the team, too, thus making them TATAHRT or even TATAHRTTATA.

jpm wrote:To use the words of Victor Meldrew; I DONT BELIEVE IT!!!!!!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88821

Narain we salute you

WHAT THE FUC[bleep]
Everyone, remember that awesome jumping with his Jordan in Spa?
Now THAT needs a second chapter!

so Narain becomes the first driver in history to use NASCAR trucks as a springboard to F1....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jERctRYpwA

He's also the first ever SuperLeague Formula graduate to reach F1 although he finished a pathetic 16th this year for PSV Eindhoven.

Karthikeyan is also the first driver to go from NASCAR to F1 since Mario Andretti, if I'm not mistaken! However, I think, in all honesty, this is bad for both NASCAR and F1, because not only does Narain's return mean that there is no new blood circulating on the F1 grid, but his presence did wonders for NASCAR in India. He won the Most Popular Driver award in the truck series despite running only a third of the schedule!

Okay, conspiracy theorsts, stand up. Perhaps Bernie realized this and decided to pay HRT money to mooch Karthikeyan away from NASCAR and over to F1 in order to boost the profile of F1 in India.

WHAT!
I expected everything - even HWNSNBM's return - but this.

Cynon wrote:Okay, conspiracy theorsts, stand up. Perhaps Bernie realized this and decided to pay HRT money to mooch Karthikeyan away from NASCAR and over to F1 in order to boost the profile of F1 in India.

/|\
_/\_

P_Friesacher wrote:Shouldn't he, in terms of rejectdom, be everyone's absolute favourite Indian driver?

Why would he? He's not even a reject.

GwilymJJames wrote:

P_Friesacher wrote:Shouldn't he, in terms of rejectdom, be everyone's absolute favourite Indian driver?

Why would he? He's not even a reject.

4th place in a circus called "2005 USA Grand Prix" is not unrejectifying, I guess.
The same for the likes of Monteiro, Friesacher and Albers

jpm wrote:To use the words of Victor Meldrew; I DONT BELIEVE IT!!!!!!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88821

Narain we salute you

And to quote Dylan Moran "And there's a perfectly normal English sentence. [Long pause] HOW THE HELL DID THAT HAPPEN?"

Seriously, though, I thought that Karthikeyan would have given up looking for a seat in Formula 1 by now, considering that he's been out of the sport for several years.
After all, the last time he raced was in 2005, and he last drove a Formula 1 car was in 2006 for Williams (OK, he was officially still a test driver for Williams in 2007, but because his sponsors had withdrawn payment, and Nakajima was bringing in the Toyota engine deal, it was Nakajima who got to do all the testing).
I thought that since then, he had moved on and was racing in the the Superleague series (and Le Mans - in 2009, he was due to drive for Kolles in his Audi R10, but the ACO withdrew his entry on medical ground after he dislocated his shoulder before the start - even though Audi's own doctors passed Narain as fit to start).

Getting to the heart of this matter, though, how much sponsorship must he be bringing in? Knowing what Kolles is like, Narain must have offered a heap of cash to buy his way into the team, and to oust the current incumbents. We'll know if HRT are in real financial trouble, though, if they also sign Yamamoto - two pay drivers in the same team is rarely a good sign...

Well guys, not so fast, I still think that there is the small matter of the car itself. And the 107% rule of course. Only then I become a believer!

Just savour the reject-ness

From Autosport;

"In 2009, he linked up with HRT team principal Colin Kolles to race for the German's Audi team in the Le Mans Series and 24 Hours - before spending last season in NASCAR's Truck Series and occasional appearances in Superleague, winning at Brands Hatch.

Speaking to The Times of India about his drive, Karthikeyan said: "It's been a while in the making, but I am delighted to be racing again in Formula 1 in 2011. I have always maintained that I have not given up on my desire to return to the top level of motorsport.

"I am confident that I have the pace, the fitness and the will to succeed in Formula 1. I am extremely grateful to the Tata Group, without whose unwavering support this comeback would not have been possible.

"I'm looking forward to racing for HRT and to working again with Dr Colin Kolles. We have a long standing and excellent working relationship together."

Kolles just couldn't help himslef could he?

GwilymJJames wrote:

P_Friesacher wrote:Shouldn't he, in terms of rejectdom, be everyone's absolute favourite Indian driver?

Why would he? He's not even a reject.

I was thinking about his more recent results. He was, let's say, not very inspiring in A1GP as well as in Superleague Formula (that win in Brands Hatch came after a red flag caused by Chris van der Drift's brutal crash) - and competition there should be somewhat less fierce than it is in F1.
I'll agree he wasn't that bad in F1 when he was there the first time, but he seems to have lost quite a bit of his speed since then, somewhat decent races in the NASCAR Truck series notwithstanding. But, hey, maybe the talent he clearly had in his early career will come back.

I always thought Narain didn't get the chance he deserved. Not that he will in HRT, of course, but at least he'll be able to trundle about in the big league again. Better to be in it.

Faustus wrote:Apparently Force India has confirmed di Resta, at long last:

http://www.italiaracing.net/translatene ... =1&lang=en

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Also No to that Indian NASCAR guy.

And if you think having Narain back in itself is good news, check out this conversation I just had with a friend of mine (freely translated)

Her: ... there's always a reason to complain. xD
Me: Right ... ah well, there are always other things to be happy about.
Her: And what are you happy about?
Me: The news that Narain Karthikeyan has earned a new F1 contract. xD
Her: May I ask who that is?
Me: Sure - Narain Karthikeyan was the first Indian F1 driver who had his debut in 2005 with Jordan and was as successful as possible (i.e. not at all) before becoming a tester for Williams until the end of 2007. Afterwards he participated in other series.
Her: Oh, now that's interesting. I think I will watch F1 now.

Narain Karthikeyan (admittedly in combination with Vitaly Petrov and to a lesser degree Pastor Maldonado) gave F1 a possible new fan. Impressive, eh?

This decision isn't as random as it first appears. When Karthikeyan was racing for Jordan, the team principal at the time was Colin Kolles. And he was drafted into Kolles' Le Mans squadron for the 2009 Le Mans 24 Hours, but injured his shoulder and was not cleared to race at the last minute. There is an existing relationship there.

Where in this gargantuan thread is the chart of each team and who is driving for them? I've been randomly hitting page numbers and not getting any close to it...

ADx_Wales wrote:Where in this gargantuan thread is the chart of each team and who is driving for them? I've been randomly hitting page numbers and not getting any close to it...

It's right here:

Red Bull - 1/Vettel, 2/Webber
McLaren - 3/Hamilton, 4/Button
Ferrari - 5/Alonso, 6/Massa
Mercedes - 7/Schumacher, 8/Rosberg
Lotus Renault - 9/Kubica, 10/Petrov
Williams - 11/Barrichello, 12/Maldonado
Force India - 14/TBA, 15/TBA
Sauber - 16/Kobayashi, 17/Perez
Toro Rosso - 18/TBA, 19/TBA
Team Lotus - 20/Trulli, 21/Kovalainen
Hispania - 22/Karthikeyan, 23/TBA
Virgin - 24/Glock, 25/d'Ambrosio

I'm expecting that this will eventually be updated to include:

Force India - 14/Sutil, 15/di Resta
Toro Rosso - 18/Alugersuari, 19/Buemi
Hispania - 22/Karthikeyan, 23/Valsecchi