Grand Prix Rejects

redbulljack14 wrote:

takagi_for_the_win wrote:Did Red Bull have a new nose cone for Singapore, with the telemetry thingy right at the tip, or have they used it since the seasons start? I haven't noticed it before

The nose did look different to me as well.

I'll have to see if I can find a few photos of that weekend to confirm that either way, but it is possible that they were using a modified nosecone - they appear to have had a slightly modified front wing assembly at the very least, according to the F1Technical website. Williams used a slightly different nosecone in Singapore - the underside of the nose has a sculpted bulge (a little like Force India's car) as against the earlier flat undersurface, so it is plausible that Red Bull might have been making changes for this weekend too.

mario wrote:

redbulljack14 wrote:
The nose did look different to me as well.

I'll have to see if I can find a few photos of that weekend to confirm that either way, but it is possible that they were using a modified nosecone - they appear to have had a slightly modified front wing assembly at the very least, according to the F1Technical website. Williams used a slightly different nosecone in Singapore - the underside of the nose has a sculpted bulge (a little like Force India's car) as against the earlier flat undersurface, so it is plausible that Red Bull might have been making changes for this weekend too.

To me, it looks like the early season-spec nose.

Singapore 2012


Melbourne 2012


In comparison to this, at Barcelona:

Phoenix wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:(...) It would be interesting to do some alternative championships that just covered the second half of the calender to see how greatly the results differed from reality.

OK, who will take care of this, you or me?

It's all yours sunshine, on Monday I finally start life as a university graduate who, shock horror, actually has a job! I know! Who would have thought?

As such it will mean I'll have no time for messing about with daft stuff like that!

I don't see anything different with the nosecone. Those things at either side are cameras.

Phoenix wrote:I don't see anything different with the nosecone. Those things at either side are cameras.

Those sort of cameras are ugly I think

Well, after Korea it's official. Michael Schumacher is now the furthest down in the F1 standings he's ever been.
He fell from 13th overall at Suzuka to 14th after this weekends race.

The worst position in the final standings for MS before this season was a 13th spot in 1991, his debut season. And he only raced 6 / 16 races that year (or 37,5%).

Schumacher's worst position in a full season was 4th in 1993 (pre-retirement), and 9th in 2010 (post-first retirement).

It's really too bad, what a great fall.

Will he stay at 14th when the season is over? Higher? Lower?

Jocke1 wrote:Well, after Korea it's official. Michael Schumacher is now the furthest down in the F1 standings he's ever been.
He fell from 13th overall at Suzuka to 14th after this weekends race.

The worst position in the final standings for MS before this season was a 13th spot in 1991, his debut season. And he only raced 6 / 16 races that year (or 37,5%).

Schumacher's worst position in a full season was 4th in 1993 (pre-retirement), and 9th in 2010 (post-first retirement).

It's really too bad, what a great fall.

Will he stay at 14th when the season is over? Higher? Lower?

Considering how shite the W03 is now, he'll probably finish lower.

East Londoner wrote:

Jocke1 wrote:Well, after Korea it's official. Michael Schumacher is now the furthest down in the F1 standings he's ever been.
He fell from 13th overall at Suzuka to 14th after this weekends race.

The worst position in the final standings for MS before this season was a 13th spot in 1991, his debut season. And he only raced 6 / 16 races that year (or 37,5%).

Schumacher's worst position in a full season was 4th in 1993 (pre-retirement), and 9th in 2010 (post-first retirement).

It's really too bad, what a great fall.

Will he stay at 14th when the season is over? Higher? Lower?

Considering how shite the W03 is now, he'll probably finish lower.

Hamilton's 2013 title challenge hopes seem to be over even before they began!

Jocke1 wrote:Well, after Korea it's official. Michael Schumacher is now the furthest down in the F1 standings he's ever been.
He fell from 13th overall at Suzuka to 14th after this weekends race.

The worst position in the final standings for MS before this season was a 13th spot in 1991, his debut season. And he only raced 6 / 16 races that year (or 37,5%).

Schumacher's worst position in a full season was 4th in 1993 (pre-retirement), and 9th in 2010 (post-first retirement).

It's really too bad, what a great fall.

Will he stay at 14th when the season is over? Higher? Lower?

He is still in front of a driver that won a race this year...

This wrote:

Jocke1 wrote:Well, after Korea it's official. Michael Schumacher is now the furthest down in the F1 standings he's ever been.
He fell from 13th overall at Suzuka to 14th after this weekends race.

The worst position in the final standings for MS before this season was a 13th spot in 1991, his debut season. And he only raced 6 / 16 races that year (or 37,5%).

Schumacher's worst position in a full season was 4th in 1993 (pre-retirement), and 9th in 2010 (post-first retirement).

It's really too bad, what a great fall.

Will he stay at 14th when the season is over? Higher? Lower?

He is still in front of a driver that won a race this year...

Who drove what was arguably a better car in most of this season races...

I've just noticed that during the Belgian race edit on formula1.com, just after the crash, you can clearly hear someone in the Sauber garage shout a very rude word.


I don't know what to do with this information.

Hmmmn, is this:


The MP4/3

Prettier than this:


The MP4/4?

Hmmm, in my eyes both cars are very beautiful, with low, clean, pointy lines, but I slightly prefer the MP4-4 because of the thinner nosecone and roll-bar arrangement.

DanielPT wrote:Hamilton's 2013 title challenge hopes seem to be over even before they began!

According to Swiss newspapers, Hamilton said in Korea: "I don't think, I will win a race in 2013!".
Also, they claim that Schumacher sitting in the Sauber-motorhome said: "Even if I start in front of you guys, at the end I only see your cars from behind".
I think we know now, what these two guys think about the current Mercedes W03 and the coming W04...

On his personal side, I understand why Hamilton is going to leave McLaren. But, honestly, I don't think he will end happy trundling in the midfield.

Phoenix wrote:I slightly prefer the MP4-4 because of the thinner nosecone and roll-bar arrangement.

Ditto - I'd say the MP4/3 looked very old-fashioned, with that nose that resembled a coal shovel. It seems they barely changed it since the MP4/1 of 1981, irrespective of what they did with the rest of the car, and by that stage, it's the kind of nose I'd expect to see on - say - an Osella, certainly not a car up the front of the grid.

dinizintheoven wrote:

Phoenix wrote:I slightly prefer the MP4-4 because of the thinner nosecone and roll-bar arrangement.

Ditto - I'd say the MP4/3 looked very old-fashioned, with that nose that resembled a coal shovel. It seems they barely changed it since the MP4/1 of 1981, irrespective of what they did with the rest of the car, and by that stage, it's the kind of nose I'd expect to see on - say - an Osella, certainly not a car up the front of the grid.

Oatley did mention that the chassis of the MP4/3 was a continuation of the MP4/2 series, which in turn was essentially an updated MP4/1 - the similarity of that car with the MP4/1, therefore, is not accidental (the front suspension geometry was the same for the MP4/2 and MP4/3, which were in turn only slightly changed from the MP4/1E). The MP4/4 was, in effect, the first chassis that McLaren had designed totally from scratch in about seven years as a result, and they took full advantage of what had been learned in the meantime.

Zetec wrote:According to Swiss newspapers, Hamilton said in Korea: "I don't think, I will win a race in 2013!".
Also, they claim that Schumacher sitting in the Sauber-motorhome said: "Even if I start in front of you guys, at the end I only see your cars from behind".

I think nobody, possibly even including Rosberg, thinks that the W04 will be a world-beater. Brawn and co. might possibly pull a Honda '07-'08 and look at 2013 as a transitioning year.

...of course we all know how BMW ended up in '08-'09!

What race was it when Vettel radioed in:
"I mean what the hell are we doing here, are we racing or are we....."

That's all I remember, he was angry because he felt he was endangered by another driver. I have forgotten when and where it was, though.

No one?

You sure that was Vettel? I am quite certain that I remember Hamilton saying something like this once because the team told him to slow down.

I believe that may have been at the start of Japan in 2011, but it was Button who made the remark about Vettel, and I don't think that was exactly what was said.

Jocke1 wrote:What race was it when Vettel radioed in:
"I mean what the hell are we doing here, are we racing or are we....."

It was either Malaysia 09, China 10 or Fuji 07, but it was Lewis Hamilton.

I'm pretty sure it was Vettel, though. And I don't think it was any later than 2010.

I got it. It was indeed Sebastian Vettel and it was at Spa 2010 when he battled against Robert Kubica and didn't like his defensive driving.

http://www.mototube.pl/film/8655/vettel ... lgii-2010/

Klon wrote:I got it. It was indeed Sebastian Vettel and it was at Spa 2010 when he battled against Robert Kubica and didn't like his defensive driving.

http://www.mototube.pl/film/8655/vettel ... lgii-2010/

That's rubbish, there was more than enough room for Vettel to stay alongside Kubica and not go off. Though, of course, this is from the same race where he lost control of his car in a straight line and took Button out. Not one of his better races, to be sure.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

Klon wrote:I got it. It was indeed Sebastian Vettel and it was at Spa 2010 when he battled against Robert Kubica and didn't like his defensive driving.

http://www.mototube.pl/film/8655/vettel ... lgii-2010/

That's rubbish, there was more than enough room for Vettel to stay alongside Kubica and not go off. Though, of course, this is from the same race where he lost control of his car in a straight line and took Button out. Not one of his better races, to be sure.

IIRC, later in the race he was also sending some very angry messages over the radio to the pit wall because they put wet tyres on his car when the track was only really wet enough for intermediates - his tyres overheated very rapidly in those conditions and Vettel started complaining bitterly to the pit wall about being on the wrong tyres.

I've just found out that Johnny Herbert was a test driver for Arrows in 2001. Surely Johnny would have done a much better job than Jos 'the Boss' Verstappen?

takagi_for_the_win wrote:I've just found out that Johnny Herbert was a test driver for Arrows in 2001. Surely Johnny would have done a much better job than Jos 'the Boss' Verstappen?

I thought Herbert retired after 2000?

JeremyMcClean wrote:

takagi_for_the_win wrote:I've just found out that Johnny Herbert was a test driver for Arrows in 2001. Surely Johnny would have done a much better job than Jos 'the Boss' Verstappen?

I thought Herbert retired after 2000?

It says in the Formula 1 Yearbook 2001-2002 that he was a test driver for Arrows

takagi_for_the_win wrote:

JeremyMcClean wrote:

takagi_for_the_win wrote:I've just found out that Johnny Herbert was a test driver for Arrows in 2001. Surely Johnny would have done a much better job than Jos 'the Boss' Verstappen?

I thought Herbert retired after 2000?

It says in the Formula 1 Yearbook 2001-2002 that he was a test driver for Arrows

He was probably just on as a reserve driver, in the same way that Coulthard was for Red Bull in 2009.

takagi_for_the_win wrote:I've just found out that Johnny Herbert was a test driver for Arrows in 2001. Surely Johnny would have done a much better job than Jos 'the Boss' Verstappen?

Almost certainly not. I'm not Verstappen's greatest fan, but Herbert's final couple of years were a bit painful to watch, although with the highlight of his final win.

Klon wrote:I got it. It was indeed Sebastian Vettel and it was at Spa 2010 when he battled against Robert Kubica and didn't like his defensive driving.

http://www.mototube.pl/film/8655/vettel ... lgii-2010/

Yep, that's the one. Thanks

Ferrim wrote:

takagi_for_the_win wrote:I've just found out that Johnny Herbert was a test driver for Arrows in 2001. Surely Johnny would have done a much better job than Jos 'the Boss' Verstappen?

Almost certainly not. I'm not Verstappen's greatest fan, but Herbert's final couple of years were a bit painful to watch, although with the highlight of his final win.

I doubt too, that verstappen would've been replaced by Herbert for 2001. Jos was coming off the back of a solid 2000. Shame the car was so poor that had to do the famous light first-stint at every race just to be competitive.

Remember when F1 2012 was interesting?

Anyone else remember back in 2003/04, there was a somewhat satirical (if I remember correctly) motorsport show on Channel 4 I think? For some reason I was thinking about it the other night, and its really messing me off I think the studio was predominantly white with blue and red highlights, but I can't remember much about it.

I was wondering, is Pastor Maldonado's 15th place in the standings the lowest a race winner in a season has ever been? I'm not sure, but I can't think of any other drivers that have won a race and still been so far down - even Jabouille in 1979 was 13th overall at the end.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I was wondering, is Pastor Maldonado's 15th place in the standings the lowest a race winner in a season has ever been? I'm not sure, but I can't think of any other drivers that have won a race and still been so far down - even Jabouille in 1979 was 13th overall at the end.

The only other person that comes close is Giancarlo Fisichella with his 12th overall in 2003. Other than that, I'm stumped

Wizzie wrote:

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I was wondering, is Pastor Maldonado's 15th place in the standings the lowest a race winner in a season has ever been? I'm not sure, but I can't think of any other drivers that have won a race and still been so far down - even Jabouille in 1979 was 13th overall at the end.

The only other person that comes close is Giancarlo Fisichella with his 12th overall in 2003. Other than that, I'm stumped

I think Maldonado wins it. Even Brambilla was 11th the year he won!

Wizzie wrote:

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I was wondering, is Pastor Maldonado's 15th place in the standings the lowest a race winner in a season has ever been? I'm not sure, but I can't think of any other drivers that have won a race and still been so far down - even Jabouille in 1979 was 13th overall at the end.

The only other person that comes close is Giancarlo Fisichella with his 12th overall in 2003. Other than that, I'm stumped

My first instinct was Vittorio Brambilla in '75, but even though his win only gave him half points, he still finished 11th that year. Beltoise was also 11th in '72.

Without his win Peter Gethin wouldn't have even escaped Rejectdom, and despite scoring no other points for the rest of 1971, he still came 9th in the championship. Similarly, Giancarlo Baghetti was 9th in 1961, with his French GP win his only classified finish of the year. Luigi Musso went two better (or rather worse), 11th in 1956 with 1 win and no other finishes - his winning drive shared with Fangio. Five years earlier Luigi Fagioli did exactly the same thing at Alfa, winning the French GP and again coming 11th in the championship with 4 points, after sharing his win with Fangio. No other entires that year however.

Michele Alboreto was 12th in 1983 with 1 win that year for Tyrrell. A year previous Nelson Piquet had been 11th with a single win.#

I think at the moment Maldonado is set to break a record here!

Well then, what's the lowest a former world Champion has been in the standings? I'm thinking Villeneuve in 1999?