Grand Prix Rejects

Klon wrote:And if you think having Narain back in itself is good news, check out this conversation I just had with a friend of mine (freely translated)

Her: ... there's always a reason to complain. xD
Me: Right ... ah well, there are always other things to be happy about.
Her: And what are you happy about?
Me: The news that Narain Karthikeyan has earned a new F1 contract. xD
Her: May I ask who that is?
Me: Sure - Narain Karthikeyan was the first Indian F1 driver who had his debut in 2005 with Jordan and was as successful as possible (i.e. not at all) before becoming a tester for Williams until the end of 2007. Afterwards he participated in other series.
Her: Oh, now that's interesting. I think I will watch F1 now.

Narain Karthikeyan (admittedly in combination with Vitaly Petrov and to a lesser degree Pastor Maldonado) gave F1 a possible new fan. Impressive, eh?

Sarcasm is a glorious thing...

Captain Hammer wrote:Hispania - 22/Karthikeyan, 23/Valsecchi

Valsecchi? Why Valsecchi? Isn't that too good for HRT? Can't they get someone like Yuji Ide?

Valsecchi because Colin Kolles was very impressed with him and kept naming him when he wasn't naming anybody else. And also because he has said that Valsecchi can have the seat if he can put a sponsor package together.

I see... So Valsecchi is prefered, and he is actually not bad. The only thing missing then is that sponsor package. How hard for him could that be?

DanielPT wrote:I see... So Valsecchi is prefered, and he is actually not bad. The only thing missing then is that sponsor package. How hard for him could that be?

I remember Kolles saying recently (December?) that Italian companies should back Valsecchi. Presumably that meant they weren't doing so at the time, i.e. Valsecchi didn't have the needed sponsorship package in place. If he would, he'd probably already been signed. I have heard no more news about Valsecchi since.

EDIT: I have, however, heard about Luca Filippi bidding for a place in F1, and since HRT is the only team with a seat available (ignoring Force India, who will pick their drivers from a select pool), that must've been about them. Which would also be not bad, I think, he's also a driver I've been looking forward to seeing in F1 for several years. (though admittedly, driving for that team will just be a waste of anyone's talent)

I can't see Italian companies backing someone in Motorsport I am affraid (except, of course, Rossi). The Europe is in a bit of economic caos at the moment, especially the southern countries like Italy. He hasn't been confirmed in GP2 Asia or Europe, so I guess he is trying hard to get that place. I too agree that driving for that team is a bit worrying. Luca Filippi could make it, if he has the right amount of money. When he came to GP2 I've heard, at the time, that he could turn out quite good, but after 5 years racing there, he never convinced anyone despite two good seasons. For him, it could be now or never...

So considering that Kolles likes to call upon his former drivers to help HRT, I expect to see the following drivers in contention for the 2nd HRT seat:

Tiago Monteiro
Christijan Albers
Markus Winkelhock (please!)
Giorgio Mondini
Alexander Premat
EJ Viso (please, please, please!)
Roman Rusinov
Fabrizio del Monte
Adrian Valles
Ronnie Quintarelli
Fairuz Fauzy
Giedo van der Garde
Max Biaggi (please x1000000)

watka wrote:So considering that Kolles likes to call upon his former drivers to help HRT, I expect to see the following drivers in contention for the 2nd HRT seat:

Tiago Monteiro
Christijan Albers
Markus Winkelhock (please!)
Giorgio Mondini
Alexander Premat
EJ Viso (please, please, please!)
Roman Rusinov
Fabrizio del Monte
Adrian Valles
Ronnie Quintarelli
Fairuz Fauzy
Giedo van der Garde
Max Biaggi (please x1000000)

Oh god, Fabrizio del Monte?! PLEASE! For those of you unaware of his Champ Car heroics, he managed to spin at Long Beach in a slow corner in 2005 and was otherwise really really REALLY slow after replacing Wirdheim. Which means, if this is a guy who sucked in Champ Car in 2005, then that's a whole different level of incompetence, because Champ Car after 2003 had maybe 5 or 6 good drivers and a whole bunch of morons in the rest of the cars!

I would also like to see Fauzy as well because from what I've heard, he's absolutely hopeless.

watka wrote:Max Biaggi (please x1000000)

I would certainly like to see Max Biaggi in F1! That would be awesome.

watka wrote:Markus Winkelhock (please!)

Now that would be something. The guy led is only GP! How many can say that?

Cynon wrote:

watka wrote:So considering that Kolles likes to call upon his former drivers to help HRT, I expect to see the following drivers in contention for the 2nd HRT seat:

Tiago Monteiro
Christijan Albers
Markus Winkelhock (please!)
Giorgio Mondini
Alexander Premat
EJ Viso (please, please, please!)
Roman Rusinov
Fabrizio del Monte
Adrian Valles
Ronnie Quintarelli
Fairuz Fauzy
Giedo van der Garde
Max Biaggi (please x1000000)

Oh god, Fabrizio del Monte?! PLEASE! For those of you unaware of his Champ Car heroics, he managed to spin at Long Beach in a slow corner in 2005 and was otherwise really really REALLY slow after replacing Wirdheim. Which means, if this is a guy who sucked in Champ Car in 2005, then that's a whole different level of incompetence, because Champ Car after 2003 had maybe 5 or 6 good drivers and a whole bunch of morons in the rest of the cars!

I would also like to see Fauzy as well because from what I've heard, he's absolutely hopeless.

I just found this: http://www.darcyf1.com/download.php?z=3121
Clearly he was ignoring the yellow flags!

watka wrote:I just found this: http://www.darcyf1.com/download.php?z=3121
Clearly he was ignoring the yellow flags!

"That is an average performance"? That is a great reject performance!!! That del Monte guy is a promising young reject!

AndreaModa wrote:Sarcasm is a glorious thing...

Naw, she was most likely serious, simply since I later told her about Petrov and Maldonado ... she is quite xenophilic. Should have added that part as well.

DanielPT wrote:

watka wrote:Markus Winkelhock (please!)

Now that would be something. The guy led is only GP! How many can say that?

I think it's great if it stays like that. So it's better him to not return to F1.

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2501 ... e-for-hrt/

So it's bye bye Bruno! Meanwhile Chandhok reveals he turned down a HRT ride. Sensible boy.

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2501 ... -chandhok/

watka wrote:So considering that Kolles likes to call upon his former drivers to help HRT, I expect to see the following drivers in contention for the 2nd HRT seat:

Tiago Monteiro
Christijan Albers
Markus Winkelhock (please!)
Giorgio Mondini
Alexander Premat
EJ Viso (please, please, please!)
Roman Rusinov
Fabrizio del Monte
Adrian Valles
Ronnie Quintarelli
Fairuz Fauzy
Giedo van der Garde
Max Biaggi (please x1000000)

I tried to make a post containng al of kolles' ex-drivers yestersay but my internet died!!!

Alex Premat would be an interesting choice given his excellent accidents over the years;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPaL_fIq ... E&index=97

http://www.darcyf1.com/download.php?z=2682

http://www.darcyf1.com/download.php?z=2635

However I reckon the most likely woud be Van Der Garde, who has a decent record in the junior series (far better than Valsecchi) and of course has some good lawyers...

jpm wrote:http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/250154/kolles-senna-is-not-going-to-race-for-hrt/

So it's bye bye Bruno!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s


I don't like HRT anymore, or at least not as much. Senna was a main reason why I liked them. But now they've got an old Indian NASCAR driver, and God knows who else, for all we know, it's Jacques Villineuve or Ralf Schumacher. The 2011 grid is NOT looking how I wanted it to.

How about the following scenario for a change?

After Liuzzi's contract has proven to be waterproof and Force 1ndia have signed Paul DiResta already, Adrian Sutil would need to look elsewhere, but Nico Hülkenberg had already signed up as the 3rd man of Mercedes GP. So his old boss Colin Kolles signs him up for the 2nd HRT seat based on his personal sponsors, to partner Narain Karthikeyan. That feels like Spyker all over again, doesn't it?

But seriously: Giedo Van Der Garde's chances seem to be looking good at this point.

jpm wrote:http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/250154/kolles-senna-is-not-going-to-race-for-hrt/

So it's bye bye Bruno!

Hooray!

I never quite liked Bruno Senna anyways. Give the seat to someone who deserves it.

I believe Bruno Senna will become a F1 Reject.

I've always said the Giedo would go to HRT, but the fact is that he signed a deal with his GP2 team a few weeks ago, though I guess he could just buy it out.

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:I've always said the Giedo would go to HRT, but the fact is that he signed a deal with his GP2 team a few weeks ago, though I guess he could just buy it out.

Well, he has had a contract for two teams in the past... surely he must be very valuable to the teams... probably for sponsorship reasons though. Still, give him a shot.

There is a surprisingly high amount of rookies in 2011. Maldonado, d'Ambrosio, Perez, and possibly di Resta.

kostas22 wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

Faustus wrote:Apparently Force India has confirmed di Resta, at long last:

http://www.italiaracing.net/translatene ... =1&lang=en

That's not confirmation. Firstly, they don't quote anyone in a position to confirm the change (ie, di Resta, Mallya, etc.). And secondly, it's clearly been written off the retracted Blick article.

Though I am a little bemused at the way the writer seems outraged that there will only be one Italian driver this year ...

And they called Di Resta English

Thought that would please you (NOT).....

JeremyMcClean wrote:

jpm wrote:http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/250154/kolles-senna-is-not-going-to-race-for-hrt/

So it's bye bye Bruno!

Hooray!

I never quite liked Bruno Senna anyways. Give the seat to someone who deserves it.

I believe Bruno Senna will become a F1 Reject.

Any reason for the hate on Bruno? Because you think he's in F1 only because of his name? And not because he has done well in the feeder series, and because he has almost always been faster than all his teammates this year?(except Singapore, Brazil was a poor tyre strategy) I think Bruno at least deserves another chance. That HRT isn't a car that you can prove your worth on the F1 grid with. If Karun deserves a seat for 2011, Bruno deserves one even more, because at the start of the season up to Karun's departure, he was clearly faster, but suffered from poor reliability.

Peter wrote:

JeremyMcClean wrote:

jpm wrote:http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/250154/kolles-senna-is-not-going-to-race-for-hrt/

So it's bye bye Bruno!

Hooray!

I never quite liked Bruno Senna anyways. Give the seat to someone who deserves it.

I believe Bruno Senna will become a F1 Reject.

Any reason for the hate on Bruno? Because you think he's in F1 only because of his name? And not because he has done well in the feeder series, and because he has almost always been faster than all his teammates this year?(except Singapore, Brazil was a poor tyre strategy) I think Bruno at least deserves another chance. That HRT isn't a car that you can prove your worth on the F1 grid with. If Karun deserves a seat for 2011, Bruno deserves one even more, because at the start of the season up to Karun's departure, he was clearly faster, but suffered from poor reliability.

He's not very fast, really. Possibly faster than Yamamoto, and Klien, but really, Chandhok deserves the best drive possible that's available right now which is.... a Force India.

So with Senna out, who do you think will take the second HRT seat? I nominate Christian Klien.

JeremyMcClean wrote:

Peter wrote:

JeremyMcClean wrote:Hooray!

I never quite liked Bruno Senna anyways. Give the seat to someone who deserves it.

I believe Bruno Senna will become a F1 Reject.

Any reason for the hate on Bruno? Because you think he's in F1 only because of his name? And not because he has done well in the feeder series, and because he has almost always been faster than all his teammates this year?(except Singapore, Brazil was a poor tyre strategy) I think Bruno at least deserves another chance. That HRT isn't a car that you can prove your worth on the F1 grid with. If Karun deserves a seat for 2011, Bruno deserves one even more, because at the start of the season up to Karun's departure, he was clearly faster, but suffered from poor reliability.

He's not very fast, really. Possibly faster than Yamamoto, and Klien, but really, Chandhok deserves the best drive possible that's available right now which is.... a Force India.

So with Senna out, who do you think will take the second HRT seat? I nominate Christian Klien.

I'm willing to bet Kolles will go for money, which pretty much rules out Klien.

I still reckon it will be Valsecchi.

[quote="JeremyMcClean"]He's not very fast, really. Possibly faster than Yamamoto, and Klien, but really, Chandhok deserves the best drive possible that's available right now which is.... a Force India. [quote]

I would disagree there; Klien is one of the most underrated drivers in F1 (apart from Nick Heidfeld); he destroyed Senna in his first time running the car competitively in Singapore, then again in Brazil, and only lost out in Abu Dhabi due to unfamiliarity with the new brake settings. He conistently outqualified Coulthard in their tenure at Red bull together, and do not forget that had it not been for a gearbox seizure, Klien would have finished 3rd at Monaco in 2006 (he was running ahead of DC at the time), and he would be Vettel right now....He is still more dserving than Chandhok I feel; he also came very close to Petrov's Renault seat last year if Bruce Jones is to be believed.

You're not alone jpm.

I personally think Klien would have become the modern version of Martin Brundle, but not Vettel. Lets be honest, Vettel is quite a few steps ahead of Klien in practically all areas. He is more deserving than Karun IMO, and if I were a member of the SPO, I would be campaigning to give him some sponsorship money.

watka wrote:I just found this: http://www.darcyf1.com/download.php?z=3121
Clearly he was ignoring the yellow flags!

[/quote]
Sadly, it's not uncommon for drivers to ignore the yellow flags, even in the highest echelons of motor sport - Hakkinen developed quite a reputation for not lifting when seeing yellow flags (whilst waiving at the marshalls to acknowledge their presence). And Alonso once ignored the yellow flags to his peril - that famous crash in Brazil in 2003, where he hit the wreckage of Irvine's Jaguar because there had been so many yellow flags by that point he had stopped noticing them.
Perhaps more unsavoury was Pastor Maldonado's decision to ignore the yellow flags during the 2005 Formula Renault 3.5 Monaco event, where he ignored the yellow flags and ran a marshall over. The marshall ended up with multiple fractured vertebrae, and Maldonado ended up being banned for nine races.

Captain Hammer wrote:I still reckon it will be Valsecchi.

Any particular reason why you suspect that Valsecchi will be signed by HRT? I know that the team spoke quite favourably about his performance in the post season Pirelli test sessions, but given that HRT is hungry for sponsorship, I would not be surprised if Valsecchi is passed over for a wealthier driver. Does Valsecchi have any big sponsorship deals or not?

Speaking of which, did you hear the recent comments that Trulli has made about the cost of motorsport? Basically, he was saying that the cost of racing in junior series is far too high, and to the detriment of motor sport since the drivers who succeed will be those with the wealthiest families, not those who have the greatest potential. He hen went on to complain that it meant that the days of a driver being able to work his way into the sport are now gone, saying that his generation of drivers (which would be those entering the sport in the early 2000's) were the last who could work their way into the sport on merit.

To be fair to him, I can kind of see what his is suggesting. After all, quite a few of the current drivers had substantial financial backing in the junior series from major companies or teams, and most of the recent graduates to Formula 1 have had to spend their way into the sport. Maldonado is perhaps the most dramatic example of that - Joe Saward has suggested that Maldonado might be bringing as much as $36 million a year to Williams, not just through PDVSA but through sponsorship from Venezuelan state media corporations. Petrov, too, was initially dismissed as just a pay driver (although he did improve over the season), and Karthikeyan is only back in F1 because he is buying his seat at HRT. And that's before we go onto drivers like Nakajima or Massa, who were helped into their respective teams by being part of an engine deal...

jpm wrote:

JeremyMcClean wrote:He's not very fast, really. Possibly faster than Yamamoto, and Klien, but really, Chandhok deserves the best drive possible that's available right now which is.... a Force India.

I would disagree there; Klien is one of the most underrated drivers in F1 (apart from Nick Heidfeld); he destroyed Senna in his first time running the car competitively in Singapore, then again in Brazil, and only lost out in Abu Dhabi due to unfamiliarity with the new brake settings. He conistently outqualified Coulthard in their tenure at Red bull together, and do not forget that had it not been for a gearbox seizure, Klien would have finished 3rd at Monaco in 2006 (he was running ahead of DC at the time), and he would be Vettel right now....He is still more dserving than Chandhok I feel; he also came very close to Petrov's Renault seat last year if Bruce Jones is to be believed.

Klien got whooped by David Coulthard in Coulthard's fading years. Klien has a major case of Fisichellitis, and to be honest, if you show you have Fisichellitis at any point when you're in a midfield or forntrunning car, your career is basically doomed these days unless you're in NASCAR -- where Fisichellitis, and it's more extreme cousin Ralfschumacheritis are welcomed and keep people like Derrike Cope, Bobby Labonte and Terry Labonte still running.

jpm wrote:http://www.darcyf1.com/download.php?z=2682

YOSHIMOTO HIROKI GOES OUTTA!

Mario wrote:Any particular reason why you suspect that Valsecchi will be signed by HRT? I know that the team spoke quite favourably about his performance in the post season Pirelli test sessions, but given that HRT is hungry for sponsorship, I would not be surprised if Valsecchi is passed over for a wealthier driver. Does Valsecchi have any big sponsorship deals or not?

Well it seems that Kolles said Valsecchi would be his first pick if sponsorship was not an issue. I'll admit that Valsecchi is not a name I've heard being associated with the term "pay-driver". At the end of the day, they are going to be at the back of the grid so they may as well pick Yamamoto.

mario wrote:Any particular reason why you suspect that Valsecchi will be signed by HRT? I know that the team spoke quite favourably about his performance in the post season Pirelli test sessions, but given that HRT is hungry for sponsorship, I would not be surprised if Valsecchi is passed over for a wealthier driver. Does Valsecchi have any big sponsorship deals or not?

Because Kolles has said that the seat is Valsecchi's if he can put together a sponsor package. And with Tata paying the team $8-10 million for Karthikeyan's seat, Hispania might consider taking a driver will less sponsorship than they were originally asking for because Tata will have covered some of their costs.

Captain Hammer wrote:

mario wrote:Any particular reason why you suspect that Valsecchi will be signed by HRT? I know that the team spoke quite favourably about his performance in the post season Pirelli test sessions, but given that HRT is hungry for sponsorship, I would not be surprised if Valsecchi is passed over for a wealthier driver. Does Valsecchi have any big sponsorship deals or not?

Because Kolles has said that the seat is Valsecchi's if he can put together a sponsor package. And with Tata paying the team $8-10 million for Karthikeyan's seat, Hispania might consider taking a driver will less sponsorship than they were originally asking for because Tata will have covered some of their costs.

I like this, seems possible that's for sure. Something that did cross my mind was a potential Williams influence in all of this. Maybe they see Valsecchi as a potential driver for them in the future and are leaning on HRT to give him a drive, maybe for a reduced payment for the gearbox/hydraulics. After all they tried it with Maldonado/Hulkenberg and that didn't work so perhaps this is Plan B? Either way, with Tata plastered over the cars next year, along with FOM prize money which will be more than what Virgin get, along with probably a cheaper car than what they had to shell out to Dallara last year, I think they'll make the grid. It might be tight, but certainly not as tight as last year. They have the personnel and and baseline to work from, compared to this time last year, when they had Bruno Senna and nothing. It's not much, but I think they'll do it.

What prize money? They do get some money for being a team younger than 3 years, and never placed on top 10. But only the top 10 teams get money afaik.

Ah the way I thought it worked was that they all got a percentage, but the amount for finishing in the top 10 was substantially more that's all. I've just tried to find out on the internet but it seems to be a bit of an elusive subject...

On the subject oof positive young Italian drivers, try Davide Rigon, the two-times SuperLeagueFormula champion, the winner of which gets around 5 mil prize money which could go towards the second HRTATA seat. An intelligent driver, his consistency allowed him to bypass some of the more electrifying drivers; such as Craig Dolby (the Hamilton of the junior series; have you seen some of his overtakes?????) Rigon has testeed for Minardi before, and we know where some of those have ended up...(he tested around the same time as Maldonado if I am remembering my Forza Minardi book correctly.)

How fast are the SF cars in comparison to, say, GP2?

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:How fast are the SF cars in comparison to, say, GP2?

None of the technical specs mean anything to me, but here are some comparative times from monza 2009 (wikipedia):
SF Pole: 1:37.649
GP2 Pole: 1:30.007
F1 Pole: 1:24.066

I think they are all recorded in similar weather conditions - so as you can see SF is a fair bit slower than GP2.

patrick wrote:

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:How fast are the SF cars in comparison to, say, GP2?

None of the technical specs mean anything to me, but here are some comparative times from monza 2009 (wikipedia):
SF Pole: 1:37.649
GP2 Pole: 1:30.007
F1 Pole: 1:24.066

I think they are all recorded in similar weather conditions - so as you can see SF is a fair bit slower than GP2.

However due to the Quali structure in Superleague, the pole time is not necessarily the fastest in Qualifying, which was actually a 1:36.931. And the fastest F1 time was 1:22.955.

jpm wrote:

JeremyMcClean wrote:He's not very fast, really. Possibly faster than Yamamoto, [strike]and Klien,[/strike] but really, Chandhok deserves the best drive possible that's available right now which is.... a Force India.

I would disagree there; Klien is one of the most underrated drivers in F1 (apart from Nick Heidfeld); he destroyed Senna in his first time running the car competitively in Singapore, then again in Brazil, and only lost out in Abu Dhabi due to unfamiliarity with the new brake settings. He conistently outqualified Coulthard in their tenure at Red bull together, and do not forget that had it not been for a gearbox seizure, Klien would have finished 3rd at Monaco in 2006 (he was running ahead of DC at the time), and he would be Vettel right now....He is still more dserving than Chandhok I feel; he also came very close to Petrov's Renault seat last year if Bruce Jones is to be believed.

Whoops, I meant to say Lucas di Grassi, what was I thinking??

Anyways, isn't there a strike option in the BBCode to strike letters out? Like what I tried to do in my quote!

JeremyMcClean wrote:

jpm wrote:

JeremyMcClean wrote:He's not very fast, really. Possibly faster than Yamamoto, [strike]and Klien,[/strike] but really, Chandhok deserves the best drive possible that's available right now which is.... a Force India.

I would disagree there; Klien is one of the most underrated drivers in F1 (apart from Nick Heidfeld); he destroyed Senna in his first time running the car competitively in Singapore, then again in Brazil, and only lost out in Abu Dhabi due to unfamiliarity with the new brake settings. He conistently outqualified Coulthard in their tenure at Red bull together, and do not forget that had it not been for a gearbox seizure, Klien would have finished 3rd at Monaco in 2006 (he was running ahead of DC at the time), and he would be Vettel right now....He is still more dserving than Chandhok I feel; he also came very close to Petrov's Renault seat last year if Bruce Jones is to be believed.

Whoops, I meant to say Lucas di Grassi, what was I thinking??

Anyways, isn't there a strike option in the BBCode to strike letters out? Like what I tried to do in my quote!

Not everything in BBCode is enabled in this forum, I don't think.

I guess there should be Klien and DiResta at Force 1ndia. And for the former Campos Racing, where are Jose-Maria Lopez and his Argentinian sponsors when HRT needs them?