Grand Prix Rejects

AdrianSutil wrote:Well then, what's the lowest a former world Champion has been in the standings? I'm thinking Villeneuve in 1999?

Jody Schekcter finished 19th in 1980 with just 2 points in that absolute pig of a Ferrari. He even had a DNQ to his name, and he did all this while reigning champion! Actually, come to think of it, how many times has the reigning champion DNQed?

AdrianSutil wrote:Well then, what's the lowest a former world Champion has been in the standings? I'm thinking Villeneuve in 1999?

My first instinct was Graham Hill in the twilight of his career - he equalled Villeneuve by being 21st in 1971. My second impulse was Emerson Fittipaldi when he went to the family team, but, again, his worst was 21st place, in 1979. My final idea was Mario Andretti at the end of his F1 career, but he managed 20th in 1980 with the pile of garbage Essex Lotus 81.

So I think Villeneuve, Hill and Fittipaldi are tied for this "honour".

Alberto Ascari was 25th in 1954, being the reigning world champion.

Besides Ascari, there's also Jack Brabham who was 23rd in 1968.

If you count drivers who weren't classified, then it's Ascari, who would be tied 49th in 1955, though that shouldn't really count since he died that year, same goes for Ayrton Senna, 39th in 1994. If you're looking for drivers who weren't in that tragic situation, then it's probably Phil Hill, who ran the whole of 1963 without a point, ending up 26th, or, if you're willing to count that, 32nd in 1966 where all he did was DNQ at Monza.

Then again, Graham Hill did the same in 1973 and 1975, although those positions were better than the other Hill's. Then you have John Surtees, whose sole retirement in Italy 1972 left him 40th. James Hunt failed to score in 1979, Alan Jones didn't finish any race in his comebacks in 1983 and 1985 and obviously there was Nigel Mansell failing in 1995.

tommykl wrote:Besides Ascari, there's also Jack Brabham who was 23rd in 1968.

If you count drivers who weren't classified, then it's Ascari, who would be tied 49th in 1955, though that shouldn't really count since he died that year, same goes for Ayrton Senna, 39th in 1994. If you're looking for drivers who weren't in that tragic situation, then it's probably Phil Hill, who ran the whole of 1963 without a point, ending up 26th, or, if you're willing to count that, 32nd in 1966 where all he did was DNQ at Monza.

Then again, Graham Hill did the same in 1973 and 1975, although those positions were better than the other Hill's. Then you have John Surtees, whose sole retirement in Italy 1972 left him 40th. James Hunt failed to score in 1979, Alan Jones didn't finish any race in his comebacks in 1983 and 1985 and obviously there was Nigel Mansell failing in 1995.

In my case, I deliberately excluded those who only did part-seasons, or seasons before they became world champion. It is the fairest way to judge it IMO.

kostas22 wrote:

tommykl wrote:Besides Ascari, there's also Jack Brabham who was 23rd in 1968.

If you count drivers who weren't classified, then it's Ascari, who would be tied 49th in 1955, though that shouldn't really count since he died that year, same goes for Ayrton Senna, 39th in 1994. If you're looking for drivers who weren't in that tragic situation, then it's probably Phil Hill, who ran the whole of 1963 without a point, ending up 26th, or, if you're willing to count that, 32nd in 1966 where all he did was DNQ at Monza.

Then again, Graham Hill did the same in 1973 and 1975, although those positions were better than the other Hill's. Then you have John Surtees, whose sole retirement in Italy 1972 left him 40th. James Hunt failed to score in 1979, Alan Jones didn't finish any race in his comebacks in 1983 and 1985 and obviously there was Nigel Mansell failing in 1995.

In my case, I deliberately excluded those who only did part-seasons, or seasons before they became world champion. It is the fairest way to judge it IMO.

That was my thinking too. It's a bit harsh to label a former WDC on one outing per year.

Having been perusing the F1 Slate, which highlights Hamiltons overuse of the word 'frickin', me and my sister have come to the conclusion that he must be related to Dr Evil

kostas22 wrote:

tommykl wrote:Besides Ascari, there's also Jack Brabham who was 23rd in 1968.

If you count drivers who weren't classified, then it's Ascari, who would be tied 49th in 1955, though that shouldn't really count since he died that year, same goes for Ayrton Senna, 39th in 1994. If you're looking for drivers who weren't in that tragic situation, then it's probably Phil Hill, who ran the whole of 1963 without a point, ending up 26th, or, if you're willing to count that, 32nd in 1966 where all he did was DNQ at Monza.

Then again, Graham Hill did the same in 1973 and 1975, although those positions were better than the other Hill's. Then you have John Surtees, whose sole retirement in Italy 1972 left him 40th. James Hunt failed to score in 1979, Alan Jones didn't finish any race in his comebacks in 1983 and 1985 and obviously there was Nigel Mansell failing in 1995.

In my case, I deliberately excluded those who only did part-seasons, or seasons before they became world champion. It is the fairest way to judge it IMO.

In that case, of those who went pointless, only Phil and Graham Hill competed in more than half of that specific season, with Phil doing six races out of ten in 1963 and Graham doing 12 out of 15 in 1973.

Lewis has outqualified Jenson:
14-5 (2010)
13-6 (2011)
15-3 (2012)

for a total of 42-14

Jocke1 wrote:Lewis has outqualified Jenson:
14-5 (2010)
13-6 (2011)
15-3 (2012)

for a total of 42-14

Wow, I did not expect that

eurobrun wrote:

Jocke1 wrote:Lewis has outqualified Jenson:
14-5 (2010)
13-6 (2011)
15-3 (2012)

for a total of 42-14

Wow, I did not expect that

I did. It is in the race that Jenson balances it a bit more.

DanielPT wrote:

eurobrun wrote:

Jocke1 wrote:Lewis has outqualified Jenson:
14-5 (2010)
13-6 (2011)
15-3 (2012)

for a total of 42-14

Wow, I did not expect that

I did. It is in the race that Jenson balances it a bit more.

I thought Lewis was the better qualifier but I didn't know it was that much better

eurobrun wrote:

DanielPT wrote:

eurobrun wrote:
Wow, I did not expect that

I did. It is in the race that Jenson balances it a bit more.

I thought Lewis was the better qualifier but I didn't know it was that much better

Given that, on one side, you have probably the fastest driver in the grid on raw speed and on the other a renowned struggler in terms of getting Pirellis up to temperature, it was always going to be an uphill battle for the latter. Truthfully, this is what I expected in both qualifying and race statistics since day one but Button's cunning strategy and Hamilton's incident proneness coupled with some off races from the latter last year balanced the sheet when it counts. This year though, and before DNF'ing every other race, Hamilton was really getting the upper hand and Button was so behind in the GC that people started wondering when McLaren was going to decide to fully back up Hamilton's championship bid.

So, Red Bull has the most even pair. No wonder they are such a force in the WCC. And it is no wonder why Ferrari wants one of them.

Now that Sebastian Vettel is close to winning his third consecutive title, I've been thinking...
It's been 7 years since Red Bull took Jaguar F1 over to make their own team, and 6 years when they did the same thing with Minardi to form STR.
Red Bull had a great start, with Coulthard being the driving force - he scored RB's first podium. They've been strong in the midfield, and even finished in Top 5 in 2007. Then came the rule changes - and Red Bull's performance has shot through the roof. First win, first 1-2 finish for Vettel-Webber duo and eventually second place in both 2009 WDC and WCC. A year later... you know the rest.

Now let's move back to Scuderia Toro Rosso. Despite having the same strong backing, and using RB's proven cars from last season with some improvements they didn't quite replicate the success of their older brother. The only peak in their performance was Vettel's two year stint, with Valencia 2008 being the best result to date.
Rule changes saw ex-Minardi being in the same place they did before Vettel. Unable to get any closer to Top 5 than 8th position. 2011 was their best post-09 season, with Buemi-Alguersuari being in their prime for the equipment they've had.

I just wonder - what went wrong? How is it possible that those two teams started from relatively the same base level (low-tier team and lots of money) and only one team got the better end of the deal? STR wasn't given enough attention (and still isn't)? Or maybe it's the drivers that cannot match Vettel's talent? What is Toro Rosso nowadays - a place for young talents, or merely Red Bull's storage where they can put their Junior Team drivers in? Have your say, guys.

Pointrox wrote:Now that Sebastian Vettel is close to winning his third consecutive title, I've been thinking...
It's been 7 years since Red Bull took Jaguar F1 over to make their own team, and 6 years when they did the same thing with Minardi to form STR.
Red Bull had a great start, with Coulthard being the driving force - he scored RB's first podium. They've been strong in the midfield, and even finished in Top 5 in 2007. Then came the rule changes - and Red Bull's performance has shot through the roof. First win, first 1-2 finish for Vettel-Webber duo and eventually second place in both 2009 WDC and WCC. A year later... you know the rest.

Now let's move back to Scuderia Toro Rosso. Despite having the same strong backing, and using RB's proven cars from last season with some improvements they didn't quite replicate the success of their older brother. The only peak in their performance was Vettel's two year stint, with Valencia 2008 being the best result to date.
Rule changes saw ex-Minardi being in the same place they did before Vettel. Unable to get any closer to Top 5 than 8th position. 2011 was their best post-09 season, with Buemi-Alguersuari being in their prime for the equipment they've had.

I just wonder - what went wrong? How is it possible that those two teams started from relatively the same base level (low-tier team and lots of money) and only one team got the better end of the deal? STR wasn't given enough attention (and still isn't)? Or maybe it's the drivers that cannot match Vettel's talent? What is Toro Rosso nowadays - a place for young talents, or merely Red Bull's storage where they can put their Junior Team drivers in? Have your say, guys.

It's quite simple really and I will answer this with two words while disregarding the difference in budgetary levels: Adrian Newey.

DanielPT wrote:

Pointrox wrote:Now that Sebastian Vettel is close to winning his third consecutive title, I've been thinking...
It's been 7 years since Red Bull took Jaguar F1 over to make their own team, and 6 years when they did the same thing with Minardi to form STR.
Red Bull had a great start, with Coulthard being the driving force - he scored RB's first podium. They've been strong in the midfield, and even finished in Top 5 in 2007. Then came the rule changes - and Red Bull's performance has shot through the roof. First win, first 1-2 finish for Vettel-Webber duo and eventually second place in both 2009 WDC and WCC. A year later... you know the rest.

Now let's move back to Scuderia Toro Rosso. Despite having the same strong backing, and using RB's proven cars from last season with some improvements they didn't quite replicate the success of their older brother. The only peak in their performance was Vettel's two year stint, with Valencia 2008 being the best result to date.
Rule changes saw ex-Minardi being in the same place they did before Vettel. Unable to get any closer to Top 5 than 8th position. 2011 was their best post-09 season, with Buemi-Alguersuari being in their prime for the equipment they've had.

I just wonder - what went wrong? How is it possible that those two teams started from relatively the same base level (low-tier team and lots of money) and only one team got the better end of the deal? STR wasn't given enough attention (and still isn't)? Or maybe it's the drivers that cannot match Vettel's talent? What is Toro Rosso nowadays - a place for young talents, or merely Red Bull's storage where they can put their Junior Team drivers in? Have your say, guys.

It's quite simple really and I will answer this with two words while disregarding the difference in budgetary levels: Adrian Newey.

It is more than just Newey, though. When Vettel went from Toro Rosso to Red Bull Racing, he wasn't the only person who was transferred across - a number of Toro Rosso's senior designers were reportedly brought in to bolster Newey's workforce at Red Bull Technology, which predominantly focusses its efforts on the parent team.

In other ways, Toro Rosso is something of an irrelevance to Red Bull Racing now that there are much stricter conditions on transferring technology between teams, although they can and have exchanged some information (James Allen reported that there was considerable amounts of information being exchanged between Red Bull and Toro Rosso in 2011 over the design of their blown diffusers). Whilst Toro Rosso also gave Red Bull an additional vote in WMSC meetings and a little more leverage with the FIA and FOM, their recent deals with FOM over the new Concorde Agreement have given them the leverage they sought in the past, and additionally there is less of a need to train up young drivers in house when you can simply buy a seat for them elsewhere on the grid (as happened with Ricciardo at HRT in 2011).
All in all, being part of Red Bull's team, but being a distinctly secondary consideration, is hurting them - Red Bull have reportedly been trying to sell the team for some time and are therefore unlikely to be worried about trying to drive that team further up the grid when the parent team dominates everything. With the spoils going to the parent team, the junior team has effectively been turned into a talent farm for Red Bull Racing - somewhere where they can train drivers and look for talented designers to draw into the parent team, draining Toro Rosso and leaving it unable to advance up the field.

What is the longest drive name ever, I think I have found a contender

eurobrun wrote:What is the longest drive name ever, I think I have found a contender

Robin Montgomerie-Charrington ?

Jocke1 wrote:

eurobrun wrote:What is the longest drive name ever, I think I have found a contender

Robin Montgomerie-Charrington ?

I was thinking of Charoensukhawatana Nattavude

If I count correctly both have 27

eurobrun wrote:

Jocke1 wrote:

eurobrun wrote:What is the longest drive name ever, I think I have found a contender

Robin Montgomerie-Charrington ?

I was thinking of Charoensukhawatana Nattavude

If I count correctly both have 27

Ah, Asian Touring Car Series Champion Nattavude.
I thought you meant F1 drivers only.

I am fairly confident, though, that Robin Montgomerie-Charrington is the driver with the longest name in F1 history.

eurobrun wrote:What is the longest drive name ever, I think I have found a contender

Jocke1 wrote:Robin Montgomerie-Charrington ?

eurobrun wrote:I was thinking of Charoensukhawatana Nattavude

If I count correctly both have 27

Jocke1 wrote:Ah, Asian Touring Car Series Champion Nattavude.
I thought you meant F1 drivers only.

I am fairly confident, though, that Robin Montgomerie-Charrington is the driver with the longest name in F1 history.

Just wait unitl António Maria de Mello Breyner Félix da Costa gets an F1 drive

kostas22 wrote:

eurobrun wrote:What is the longest drive name ever, I think I have found a contender

Jocke1 wrote:Robin Montgomerie-Charrington ?

eurobrun wrote:I was thinking of Charoensukhawatana Nattavude

If I count correctly both have 27

Jocke1 wrote:Ah, Asian Touring Car Series Champion Nattavude.
I thought you meant F1 drivers only.

I am fairly confident, though, that Robin Montgomerie-Charrington is the driver with the longest name in F1 history.

Just wait unitl António Maria de Mello Breyner Félix da Costa gets an F1 drive

He comes from a very rich, well known old family in Portugal with probable roots in nobility. In these cases they carry many names around... It's mostly to set themselves apart besides the money.

http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews ... 14087.html

Q: What’s been your most valuable life lesson?
KR: Never give up.

Q: If you could give your younger self some advice what would it be?
KR: Never give up.

Q: What’s the best advice you have been given?
KR: Never give up.

I wonder how many things Kimi applies this to in everyday life.

Jocke1 wrote:http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2012/11/14087.html

Q: What’s been your most valuable life lesson?
KR: Never give up.

Q: If you could give your younger self some advice what would it be?
KR: Never give up.

Q: What’s the best advice you have been given?
KR: Never give up.

I wonder how many things Kimi applies this to in everyday life.

I can guess what he'd spend his last dollar on...and no, it's not a miniature bottle of Smirnoff.

Jocke1 wrote:http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2012/11/14087.html

Q: What’s been your most valuable life lesson?
KR: Never give up.

Q: If you could give your younger self some advice what would it be?
KR: Never give up.

Q: What’s the best advice you have been given?
KR: Never give up.

I wonder how many things Kimi applies this to in everyday life.

Sure Kimi had a lot to say in that interview. I was overblown with information and the huge, eloquent answers.

DanielPT wrote:Sure Kimi had a lot to say in that interview. I was overblown with information and the huge, eloquent answers.

Yes.

Shizuka wrote:

DanielPT wrote:Sure Kimi had a lot to say in that interview. I was overblown with information and the huge, eloquent answers.

Yes.

Jeez, man, you don't need to give us a dissertation on this stuff.

When was the last time a car stalled at the start of a race?

darkapprentice77 wrote:When was the last time a car stalled at the start of a race?

At the Abu Dhabi GP, when DLR couldn't get past the formation lap, and had to start from the pitlane.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

Shizuka wrote:

DanielPT wrote:Sure Kimi had a lot to say in that interview. I was overblown with information and the huge, eloquent answers.

Yes.

Jeez, man, you don't need to give us a dissertation on this stuff.

If anyone wants me to give them a special kind of dissertation, let me know. You won't necessarily get a lot of information, but you will be overblown at the end.

redbulljack14 wrote:

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

Shizuka wrote:Yes.

Jeez, man, you don't need to give us a dissertation on this stuff.

If anyone wants me to give them a special kind of dissertation, let me know. You won't necessarily get a lot of information, but you will be overblown at the end.

Dissertation, what's that Fernando? Is it a fancy way to say you're having pudding?

JeremyMcClean wrote:

darkapprentice77 wrote:When was the last time a car stalled at the start of a race?

At the Abu Dhabi GP, when DLR couldn't get past the formation lap, and had to start from the pitlane.

Didn't they just leave a tyre blanket on the car? The last one I can think is either Schumacher at Hungary (unless you don't count stupidity ) or Ricciardo at Monza last year.

the Masked Lapwing wrote:

JeremyMcClean wrote:

darkapprentice77 wrote:When was the last time a car stalled at the start of a race?

At the Abu Dhabi GP, when DLR couldn't get past the formation lap, and had to start from the pitlane.

Didn't they just leave a tyre blanket on the car? The last one I can think is either Schumacher at Hungary (unless you don't count stupidity ) or Ricciardo at Monza last year.

Pedro stalled at Malaysia.

Am I the only one that noticed a tree in the runoff area on the outside of turn 9 at Interlagos.

dafaq?

eurobrun wrote:Am I the only one that noticed a tree in the runoff area on the outside of turn 9 at Interlagos.

dafaq?

Ther really is a tree. It is surrounded by barriers, but that's still a bit weird for a modern circuit. But the tree is quite far away from the track, and Turn 9 is a very slow corner.

Jocke1 wrote:Well, after Korea it's official. Michael Schumacher is now the furthest down in the F1 standings he's ever been.
He fell from 13th overall at Suzuka to 14th after this weekends race.

The worst position in the final standings for MS before this season was a 13th spot in 1991, his debut season. And he only raced 6 / 16 races that year (or 37,5%).

Schumacher's worst position in a full season was 4th in 1993 (pre-retirement), and 9th in 2010 (post-first retirement).

It's really too bad, what a great fall.

Will he stay at 14th when the season is over? Higher? Lower?

Michael spared himself some depressing stats today.
Before the race it looked like he would end up at the worst position ever in his F1 career. He sat in 15th position with 43 points.

After Interlagos he has climbed to 13th again with 49 points.
So he has avoided some embarrasment.

kostas22 wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I was wondering, is Pastor Maldonado's 15th place in the standings the lowest a race winner in a season has ever been? I'm not sure, but I can't think of any other drivers that have won a race and still been so far down - even Jabouille in 1979 was 13th overall at the end.

The only other person that comes close is Giancarlo Fisichella with his 12th overall in 2003. Other than that, I'm stumped

My first instinct was Vittorio Brambilla in '75, but even though his win only gave him half points, he still finished 11th that year. Beltoise was also 11th in '72.

Without his win Peter Gethin wouldn't have even escaped Rejectdom, and despite scoring no other points for the rest of 1971, he still came 9th in the championship. Similarly, Giancarlo Baghetti was 9th in 1961, with his French GP win his only classified finish of the year. Luigi Musso went two better (or rather worse), 11th in 1956 with 1 win and no other finishes - his winning drive shared with Fangio. Five years earlier Luigi Fagioli did exactly the same thing at Alfa, winning the French GP and again coming 11th in the championship with 4 points, after sharing his win with Fangio. No other entires that year however.

Michele Alboreto was 12th in 1983 with 1 win that year for Tyrrell. A year previous Nelson Piquet had been 11th with a single win.#

I think at the moment Maldonado is set to break a record here!

It's done; Maldonado finishes the year 15th, the lowest ever a race winner has been in the final standings! Though I have to admit, he has done a good job of cleaning his act up in the last few races.

Nick Heidfeld's children are named Juni, Joda and Justus. Apparently there was a discount on the letter 'J' when Heidfeld went shopping for names.