Grand Prix Rejects

mario wrote:

David AGS wrote:At least both HRT'S are on the grid.

They look a step behind the Virgin team though, and they did say this circuit dont suit them.

If it rains though, could be interesting!

It's plausible that we could see passing showers hit the circuit, as the BBC's weather service does say that there may be heavy showers of rain in the late afternoon.

Still, I must say that Ricciardo has done a fairly solid job this weekend - the constantly varying weather conditions must have made it hard to get used to the behaviour of the car, and it's not easy to be suddenly thrust into a new team halfway through the season, so to have gone out there, kept the car out of the barriers (we saw how Kobayashi smashed his car to bits in FP1) and qualified on the grid is a good effort.

Ricciardo started solidly albeit he was a bit unspectacular. Not that you can be spectacular in a HRT. He didn't beat Liuzzi though and if he doesn't start doing it very soon he will lose that aura of the next big thing. Maybe I am being harsh but if you look at past 'next big thing's that actually became big things they made some sort of an impact. He is being sold by RBR and the press as the next Vettel so I am afraid that these anonymous displays won't do him any good unless RBR really believe in him.

cbbcisace wrote:http://www.ts.fi/moottoriurheilu/f1/237778.html

Hispania will move to England after buying a empty Brackley Factory + Dani Close to become a 2012 driver.

I'd like to know which 'empty Brackley factory' that is! It's only a small town and Mercedes GP already have their base in it!

What's that smell..?

Hey, I'm not saying that article its the truth, just adding what is out there!

Do we think Hispania could change their team name for next year, something more Spanish?

as much as I like HRT I really do have to breath out a big LOL at the guy over on the autosport forum who thinks they will overtake TL this year for 10th and for them to fall behind MVR aswell for HRT to find 2-3 seconds in the next few rounds will be nothing but a miracle.

I would think a good point for HRT is to get the final update on and working and then concentrate on getting ahead of mvr which is just about within reach

S951 wrote:as much as I like HRT I really do have to breath out a big LOL at the guy over on the autosport forum who thinks they will overtake TL this year for 10th and for them to fall behind MVR aswell for HRT to find 2-3 seconds in the next few rounds will be nothing but a miracle.

I would think a good point for HRT is to get the final update on and working and then concentrate on getting ahead of mvr which is just about within reach

One last hurrah in the form of a big upgrade package is still in the works for HRT. It should be able tu kick them ahead of Vrigin, and maybe in striking distance of Lotus. But Lotus would eventually increase that gap again. It would have been possible, if TL didn't recently acquire all this massive sponsorship deals. Only way they can get ahead of TL is with a lucky finish in a high attrition race. Lotus has had relatively poor relaibility, so the chances of TL retiring from said high attrition race is more likely, which would benefit HRT.

Peter wrote:

S951 wrote:as much as I like HRT I really do have to breath out a big LOL at the guy over on the autosport forum who thinks they will overtake TL this year for 10th and for them to fall behind MVR aswell for HRT to find 2-3 seconds in the next few rounds will be nothing but a miracle.

I would think a good point for HRT is to get the final update on and working and then concentrate on getting ahead of mvr which is just about within reach

One last hurrah in the form of a big upgrade package is still in the works for HRT. It should be able tu kick them ahead of Vrigin, and maybe in striking distance of Lotus. But Lotus would eventually increase that gap again. It would have been possible, if TL didn't recently acquire all this massive sponsorship deals. Only way they can get ahead of TL is with a lucky finish in a high attrition race. Lotus has had relatively poor relaibility, so the chances of TL retiring from said high attrition race is more likely, which would benefit HRT.

It would need to be a very high attrition race in order for that to happen, though - at the moment, Team Lotus are ahead by virtue of two 13th place finishes, and one 14th place finish, whereas the next highest finishing position for HRT is 16th place.

So, in order for HRT to beat Team Lotus, they would need to either finish in 13th place twice, in order to beat them on count back, or they would need to finish in 12th place - not impossible, given what happened in Canada, but with the top teams being quite reliable this year (especially Red Bull, who have got both cars to the finish in every race this season), having half the grid retire or hit problems in the same race is a fairly long shot.

As for a major upgrade for HRT, I'll wait until we can see new parts appearing on the car - although I thought that Geoff Willis had said that development on the 2011 car would cease around Silverstone? OK, it may be that they will bring in one last update package, and that will be that (save for a Monza spec package), but I guess that for now we will have to wait and see what they intend to update (perhaps a new iteration of a blown diffuser? It's somewhat ironic that they seem to have gone for the Mercedes launch spec system at the point where Mercedes ditched that for a Red Bull style system).

I remember reading on Formula1.com the weekend of Valencia, they they were getting the best out of this package before bringing a big upgrade package to Silverstone, then Liuzzi saying on their website that they were hoping to bring a new package to Silverstone. They'll just need to bring that along, then they can cease development to try get a headstart on 2012.

"Hey, we couldn't have Adrián Campos involved with the team, but why don't we get one of his old team mates on board?" Luis Pérez-Sala has joined Hispania as an advisor.

Seeing as this team is fast becoming the new Minardi, also expect Paolo Barilla and Alessandro Nannini to be appointed to oversee the catering...

dinizintheoven wrote:"Hey, we couldn't have Adrián Campos involved with the team, but why don't we get one of his old team mates on board?" Luis Pérez-Sala has joined Hispania as an advisor.

Seeing as this team is fast becoming the new Minardi, also expect Paolo Barilla and Alessandro Nannini to be appointed to oversee the catering...

If it is fast becoming the new Minardi, may I suggest another return, that of Paul Stoddart ? Or THE return of HWNSNBM?

DanielPT wrote:

dinizintheoven wrote:"Hey, we couldn't have Adrián Campos involved with the team, but why don't we get one of his old team mates on board?" Luis Pérez-Sala has joined Hispania as an advisor.

Seeing as this team is fast becoming the new Minardi, also expect Paolo Barilla and Alessandro Nannini to be appointed to oversee the catering...

If it is fast becoming the new Minardi, may I suggest another return, that of Paul Stoddart ? Or THE return of HWNSNBM?

If only

If they're the new Minardi, then they will score their first point in their 4th year, then unrejectify themselves in their 5th :O

I can't wait that long

From this GP, the new management at HRT are giving more preminence to the... HRT brand. The team's motorhome now reads "HRT Formula One Team" instead of "Hispania Racing" (remember the HRT monicker was used only because the FIA didn't allow for Hispania Racing in official documents) and the "this could be you" and similar slogans seem to have been removed*. Also, the Spanish flag is no longer at the front of the car (so much of "making the team more Spanish"...)

*I guess is about time for an avatar change...

They remove the only things that's the team is the best in F1 on?

Ferrim wrote:From this GP, the new management at HRT are giving more preminence to the... HRT brand. The team's motorhome now reads "HRT Formula One Team" instead of "Hispania Racing" (remember the HRT monicker was used only because the FIA didn't allow for Hispania Racing in official documents) and the "this could be you" and similar slogans seem to have been removed*. Also, the Spanish flag is no longer at the front of the car (so much of "making the team more Spanish"...)

*I guess is about time for an avatar change...

It seems that only the "This could be you" has been removed, and replaced by "HRT". The other slogans look like they're still there, as shown by this picture

"HRT Formula 1 Team" is a bad case of RAS Syndrome, methinks.

I wonder if HRT is targeting sponsorship from a pharmaceutical company now?

Last night I passed Daniel Ricciardo leaving Las Igunana, Milton Keynes, with his girlfriend. I was seconds too late to interact in any way.

Genuine F1 Reject sighting!!!

I wouldn't call him a reject yet, he's only in his second weekend with a poor team and he's improved already!

TomPryce wrote:I wouldn't call him a reject yet, he's only in his second weekend with a poor team and he's improved already!

I know it's hard but he has 2 entries and two finishes no better than 19th so technically he is a reject. An high profile reject that is!

Well anyway, he looked just as jolly in real life as he comes across on telly. I wish I'd been closer and was able to say hi.

New front wing was on the cars on Saturday. Mario, if you can, care to shed some light on this?

Peter wrote:New front wing was on the cars on Saturday. Mario, if you can, care to shed some light on this?

The only difference seems to be an extra element in front of the double element flaps, as pretty much every team is doing.

A better image:



Hopefully this means progress for HRT, as now it looks like they are more clearly ahead of Virgin. The elements look rather thick though, won't that increase drag?

Peter wrote:A better image:
http://hispaniaracing.com/media/2011-11 ... un1450.jpg
Quote slightly edited so image would not take up most of thread

Hopefully this means progress for HRT, as now it looks like they are more clearly ahead of Virgin. The elements look rather thick though, won't that increase drag?

HRT did have a solution to the drag problem - they shed those elements with worrying frequency during the race weekend (I recall seeing that happen at least three times). As for their relative performance to Virgin Racing, I wouldn't necessarily say that they are clearly ahead - Glock did outqualify both HRT's, and at the end of the race he was just over 39 seconds clear of Ricciardo, according to the FIA's official timing.

As to the modification itself, well, Hungary is traditionally one of those venues where, since the main straight is fairly short, drag is less of an issue - it's a bit like Monaco, as you can generally get away with a something that produces a bit more drag, but also more downforce, that you might use elsewhere. It does seem to be unusually thick, though - even their fellow backmarkers seem to have more slender designs. That said, at the moment you would suspect that it is the connection between the winglet and the rest of the front wing that needs to be thickened up...

Hungary front wing compared to previous

mario wrote:

Peter wrote:A better image:
http://hispaniaracing.com/media/2011-11 ... un1450.jpg
Quote slightly edited so image would not take up most of thread

Hopefully this means progress for HRT, as now it looks like they are more clearly ahead of Virgin. The elements look rather thick though, won't that increase drag?

HRT did have a solution to the drag problem - they shed those elements with worrying frequency during the race weekend (I recall seeing that happen at least three times). As for their relative performance to Virgin Racing, I wouldn't necessarily say that they are clearly ahead - Glock did outqualify both HRT's, and at the end of the race he was just over 39 seconds clear of Ricciardo, according to the FIA's official timing.

Possibly more to do with D'Ambrosio not being very good, than HRT being better than Virgin.

Well, while Glock was happy with his qualifying lap, both HRT drivers said that they could have gone even faster, Liuzzi blaming his front wing problem for it. They were both only 2 tenths the most off of Timo, now that's progress.

Peter wrote:Well, while Glock was happy with his qualifying lap, both HRT drivers said that they could have gone even faster, Liuzzi blaming his front wing problem for it. They were both only 2 tenths the most off of Timo, now that's progress.

It is true. HRT is improving a lot and perhaps, with a bit more money, they can reach the dizzing heights of the Lotus!

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/08/12/liuzzi-hrt-aim-beat-lotus/
I'd say this is quite optmistic, but then again, this year's Lotus appears to have been built using glue and bolts on most major parts.

East Londoner wrote:http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/08/12/liuzzi-hrt-aim-beat-lotus/
I'd say this is quite optmistic, but then again, this year's Lotus appears to have been built using glue and bolts on most major parts.

It hurts to say this but Lotus have forgotten all the lessons they learnt about making it to the finish last year (If my memory is correct so far this season they have the worst finishing record)

I think that was Virgin, Virgin had the worst finishing record in 2010 as far as I know.

Peter wrote:I think that was Virgin, Virgin had the worst finishing record in 2010 as far as I know.

Correct - Virgin Racing had 15 DNF's and two DNS's last year (although a few of those were due to driver error rather than reliability problems), whilst Team Lotus had 11 DNF's and two DNS's and HRT had 13 DNF's.
However, this year, ironically Virgin Racing, with two DNF's and one DNS (plus an unclassified finish), have the best finishing record of the new teams, followed by HRT with four DNF's and Team Lotus with 8 DNF's. It's odd, though, that up until Canada Team Lotus's finishing record was about level with their fellow backmarkers, and it is only in the last few races that we've seen them hit by so many problems - although, given that has coincided with some updates for their car, perhaps the two are linked.

Narain is getting his hopes up to retake his seat for the Indian Grand Prix

http://en.espnf1.com/india/motorsport/story/56887.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

East Londoner wrote:Narain is getting his hopes up to retake his seat for the Indian Grand Prix

http://en.espnf1.com/india/motorsport/story/56887.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

It is only logical. Chandhok will probably drive for Lotus too...

I have a feeling that Liuzzi will sit out. Because of the V8 Supercars race the weekend before.

Myrvold wrote:I have a feeling that Liuzzi will sit out. Because of the V8 Supercars race the weekend before.

I vaguely recall HRT saying that Ricciardo would replace Karthikeyan for the rest of the season except India. And Liuzzi is just crazy enough to go F1-V8-F1.

New Front Wing on the HRT, just those new flaps right up there. Care to shed some light on it, mario, if you can? They also have their low downforce rear wing equipped, which, according to F1Technical, is where it is to give it a bit less drag, because it's now partially behind the airbox, but also reducing efficiency slightly. That makes me wonder why they didn't go conventional, Red Bull-esque with theirs and put it at the normal height.

Peter wrote:New Front Wing on the HRT, just those new flaps right up there. Care to shed some light on it, mario, if you can? They also have their low downforce rear wing equipped, which, according to F1Technical, is where it is to give it a bit less drag, because it's now partially behind the airbox, but also reducing efficiency slightly. That makes me wonder why they didn't go conventional, Red Bull-esque with theirs and put it at the normal height.

I wish that I could, but at the moment I'm partway through moving and am without internet access (save for when I'm at work or at home), so I've not been able to follow the latest developments recently.

As for the rear wing, well, I suppose that HRT's reasoning is that their aero efficiency is the biggest problem (i.e. it is not necessarily just generating downforce that is the problem, but being able to generate that downforce with the least amount of drag possible), so perhaps they are prepared to shed a little more drag, even if it comes at the price of a reduction in downforce, to try to improve their aero efficiency?

It looks more certain now that Narain will be back in one of the cars for the Indian GP as he has secured sponsorship from the local Hero (sic) Motor Co. (Reported by JS, Autosport & F1 Fanatic).
Who will he replace? Might the Red Bull/STR deal in respect of Ricciardo mean Liuzzi might have to stand down?

eagleash wrote:It looks more certain now that Narain will be back in one of the cars for the Indian GP as he has secured sponsorship from the local Hero (sic) Motor Co. (Reported by JS, Autosport & F1 Fanatic).
Who will he replace? Might the Red Bull/STR deal in respect of Ricciardo mean Liuzzi might have to stand down?

Probably. Besides Liuzzi will be at the Gold Coast the weekend before the Indian GP anyway.

Wizzie wrote:

eagleash wrote:It looks more certain now that Narain will be back in one of the cars for the Indian GP as he has secured sponsorship from the local Hero (sic) Motor Co. (Reported by JS, Autosport & F1 Fanatic).
Who will he replace? Might the Red Bull/STR deal in respect of Ricciardo mean Liuzzi might have to stand down?

Probably. Besides Liuzzi will be at the Gold Coast the weekend before the Indian GP anyway.

They're rumoured to be after Schumacher for the 600 as well. Does that mean he won't turn up in Delhi too? Just when you thought you'd see the last of Nick Heidfeld......