Grand Prix Rejects

Will Senna want to return to HRT?

He would definetly think twice, but if were so would be interested to see what he thinks of everything in comparison to his first year in 2010 if it goes ahead. DLR has most likely got one more year left, and Senna could do with his experience and knowlege.

If Senna brings the same cash, it will go a way to helping the teams budget.

Either way, the Brazilian is running out of chances.

JeremyMcClean wrote:Grosjean has apparently been confirmed at Lotus for 2013. Make of it what you will.

Also Massa will sign for Ferrari, according to Autosport. Unsurprising really, though in the later races Massa has shown his talent, and his podium at Japan has probably kept his seat. Not sure he's part of Ferrari's long term plan, though.

Grosjean's contract renewal, whilst perhaps under a little doubt due to his accidents this year, is not entirely surprising given that he has been able to pick up decent points at times (not to mention the support he gets from Total and a desire from the team to maintain a consistent line up into next year). I imagine, though, that Lotus will be stricter with him next year given that they could have been applying more pressure on McLaren if he hadn't failed to score as many times as he has this season.

As for Massa, he seems to be a stop gap solution - the BBC seem to believe that Vettel is heading over to Ferrari for 2014 (depending on how well Ferrari do in 2013, though), so Massa is on a one year contract extension as a result of his upturn in form over the past few races (the podium finish in Japan seems to have sealed the deal - and its worked for Ferrari too, as they are now beating McLaren in the WCC thanks to Massa's recent stronger run of points).

And suddenly, McLaren next year just got a whole lot more interesting.

Exactly how much of it is true and how much of it is pot-stirring by the journalists however remains to be seen

Not that interesting, I mean it wasn't even Perez that hit Button.
We can go back to Webber being hit by Vettel in 2007 for more fireworks

If what Button said is true, it's more due to a build up this season from Grosjean and other making everyone fed up. As the saying goes, you can't win a race on the first corner, but you can lose a race on the first corner.
Some don't seem to get that, especially as the quotes say, this isn't Monaco, plenty of overtaking possible later on anyway.

David AGS wrote:Will Senna want to return to HRT?

He would definetly think twice, but if were so would be interested to see what he thinks of everything in comparison to his first year in 2010 if it goes ahead. DLR has most likely got one more year left, and Senna could do with his experience and knowlege.

If Senna brings the same cash, it will go a way to helping the teams budget.

Either way, the Brazilian is running out of chances.

Well they are not the same team now, Kolles and his parasites have gone.

He and his reps was in the Caja Magica back in September, make of that what you will!

Wizzie wrote:And suddenly, McLaren next year just got a whole lot more interesting.

Exactly how much of it is true and how much of it is pot-stirring by the journalists however remains to be seen

If these quotes are genuine then Button is really starting to slip down in my estimation. His comments on Grosjean in the last race were out of order, particularly as he has had no involvement with him. Kamui has apologised sincerely and profusely, and Jenson was hardly an example of outstanding driving at this point of his career.

And way to make your new team-mate feel welcome. I hope Perez really thrashes him now in a way Hamilton wasn't able to.

Wizzie wrote:And suddenly, McLaren next year just got a whole lot more interesting.

Exactly how much of it is true and how much of it is pot-stirring by the journalists however remains to be seen

Those comments seem very un-Buttonish, especially when you consider his comments on Grosjean last week. Maybe he feels that with Hamilton leaving, he needs to take the mantle of "Biggest Mong In the Pitlane" for McLaren.

takagi_for_the_win wrote:

Wizzie wrote:And suddenly, McLaren next year just got a whole lot more interesting.

Exactly how much of it is true and how much of it is pot-stirring by the journalists however remains to be seen

Those comments seem very un-Buttonish, especially when you consider his comments on Grosjean last week. Maybe he feels that with Hamilton leaving, he needs to take the mantle of "Biggest Mong In the Pitlane" for McLaren.

I wonder if he's become frustrated at the way McLaren have been this season, pissing away both titles far too easily.

East Londoner wrote:

takagi_for_the_win wrote:

Wizzie wrote:And suddenly, McLaren next year just got a whole lot more interesting.

Exactly how much of it is true and how much of it is pot-stirring by the journalists however remains to be seen

Those comments seem very un-Buttonish, especially when you consider his comments on Grosjean last week. Maybe he feels that with Hamilton leaving, he needs to take the mantle of "Biggest Mong In the Pitlane" for McLaren.

I wonder if he's become frustrated at the way McLaren have been this season, pissing away both titles far too easily.

Wouldn't surprise me, it's been a litany of mistakes this year, one after the other.

AndreaModa wrote:

East Londoner wrote:

takagi_for_the_win wrote:Those comments seem very un-Buttonish, especially when you consider his comments on Grosjean last week. Maybe he feels that with Hamilton leaving, he needs to take the mantle of "Biggest Mong In the Pitlane" for McLaren.

I wonder if he's become frustrated at the way McLaren have been this season, pissing away both titles far too easily.

Wouldn't surprise me, it's been a litany of mistakes this year, one after the other.

Withmarsh has blown the Ron Dennis McLaren ultra-professional image to pieces in just a couple of years. Granted, they solved the pit-stop issues that plagued their early season, but these issues shouldn't have been there in the first place.

I don't think this will still be a problem next year

AndreaModa wrote:

East Londoner wrote:

takagi_for_the_win wrote:Those comments seem very un-Buttonish, especially when you consider his comments on Grosjean last week. Maybe he feels that with Hamilton leaving, he needs to take the mantle of "Biggest Mong In the Pitlane" for McLaren.

I wonder if he's become frustrated at the way McLaren have been this season, pissing away both titles far too easily.

Wouldn't surprise me, it's been a litany of mistakes this year, one after the other.

DanielPT wrote:Withmarsh has blown the Ron Dennis McLaren ultra-professional image to pieces in just a couple of years. Granted, they solved the pit-stop issues that plagued their early season, but these issues shouldn't have been there in the first place.

It also has to be said that their reliability this season has been a little weaker than normal too (especially in the past few races, with Hamilton retiring from Singapore and suffering from damaged suspension parts in Japan and Korea whilst Button had to change his gearbox ahead of the Japanese GP and had a few concerns with it during the race). Their development this season has also been pretty patchy in places - their form has been dipping up and down across the season (going from leading pace to struggling to make it into the top 10), whereas Red Bull and Ferrari have at least seen their cars consistently improve across the season.
All in all, I could understand both drivers being frustrated with McLaren's performance this year - they couldn't take advantage of having a very quick car earlier in the season (both Hamilton and Button could comfortably be in front of Kimi if not for that), and now they can't seem to develop their way back towards the front and stay there.

mario wrote:

DanielPT wrote:Withmarsh has blown the Ron Dennis McLaren ultra-professional image to pieces in just a couple of years. Granted, they solved the pit-stop issues that plagued their early season, but these issues shouldn't have been there in the first place.

It also has to be said that their reliability this season has been a little weaker than normal too (especially in the past few races, with Hamilton retiring from Singapore and suffering from damaged suspension parts in Japan and Korea whilst Button had to change his gearbox ahead of the Japanese GP and had a few concerns with it during the race). Their development this season has also been pretty patchy in places - their form has been dipping up and down across the season (going from leading pace to struggling to make it into the top 10), whereas Red Bull and Ferrari have at least seen their cars consistently improve across the season.
All in all, I could understand both drivers being frustrated with McLaren's performance this year - they couldn't take advantage of having a very quick car earlier in the season (both Hamilton and Button could comfortably be in front of Kimi if not for that), and now they can't seem to develop their way back towards the front and stay there.

I agree. But to be fair with McLaren, they are not the only ones having a patchy development. Ferrari have already admitted that they are struggling to match the wind tunnel results with those on track (again), so the car has been more or less the same for some time now. Red Bull struggled most of the season recovering from the Blown Diffuser ban, specially with their qualifying pace, which affected their race results. The other so called big team, Mercedes, the less said the better. In this yo-yo season McLaren main problem was failing to capitalise when they had the upper hand. They entered the season with the fastest car out there, but they had those pit-stop issues who costed dearly. Then it was a bit random, with Alonso in Malaysia, Rosberg in China and Maldonado in Spain. Hamilton won in his fetish circuit, Canada, and for the two or three races where Ferrari had the pace, Alonso won two of them (and it was mostly in wet he did it). McLaren came to the fore in the next four races and actually won 3 of them, but one was with Button (who was already too far behind in the Championship by then) and Hamilton still DNFed on two of these races. Then, when it was important for McLaren to do damage control as the Vettel-Red Bull juggernaut came to the fore (they weren't that far behind Vettel), Hamilton was, admittedly, hindered by car issues. All in all, if Lewis had the same DNFs number of the others and had not been suffering so much pit issues in the early season, he could have been either leading or much, much closer.

Massa at Ferrari also in 2013

Maranello, 16 October - Scuderia Ferrari announces that it has renewed its contract with the driver Felipe Massa to the end of the 2013 race season.

The Scuderia’s driver line-up for next year is therefore made up of Fernando Alonso and the aforementioned Felipe Massa

http://www.ferrari.com/english/formula1 ... -2013.aspx

That's that then.

takagi_for_the_win wrote:

Wizzie wrote:And suddenly, McLaren next year just got a whole lot more interesting.

Exactly how much of it is true and how much of it is pot-stirring by the journalists however remains to be seen

Those comments seem very un-Buttonish, especially when you consider his comments on Grosjean last week. Maybe he feels that with Hamilton leaving, he needs to take the mantle of "Biggest Mong In the Pitlane" for McLaren.

Button made those comments in an interview broadcast by BBC during or immediately after the race...pretty sure it was during....with Lee MacKenzie..... He was probably feeling fairly cross at that point...

For all the fans of Charles Pic out there, I read on Autosport that Glock will be paired with Max Chilton for 2013 which leaves Pic without a race drive for next season. The Hulkenberg to Sauber thing is also a done deal which means I have finally snapped out of my delusional beliefs that Kobayashi's seat is perfectly safe.

It's believed that Pic is trying to go to Caterham to replace Vitaly Petrov, who was initially reported as having lost all of his sponsors, but that seems to have been amended to losing just a few of his sponsors.

I wonder - with the first Russian Grand Prix due to take place in 2014, could the organisers consider sponsoring Caterham to build up awareness?

I don't actually get why Hulkenberg wants to move from Force India to Sauber, it's essentially hopping from one midfield team to another. There's the Sauber/Ferrari connection of course but that could all be quashed if The Finger goes to Ferrari in 2014!

James1978 wrote:I don't actually get why Hulkenberg wants to move from Force India to Sauber, it's essentially hopping from one midfield team to another. There's the Sauber/Ferrari connection of course but that could all be quashed if The Finger goes to Ferrari in 2014!

I would hazard a guess that the uncertainty surrounding Mallya's finances might be one reason to want to leave Force India - better to make a lateral move and stay on the grid with a more stable team than risk a slightly less certain future at Force India. Equally, it is possible that Hulkenberg was eased out of the team in favour of another driver, like Bianchi (we know that Ferrari are keen to see him in a race seat sooner or later), and with rumours that Kobayashi is being eased out of his seat, it is plausible that he simply went for the next most competitive seat that was available, which was at Sauber.

If Hulkenberg is defecting because he knows the writing is on the wall financially, then that probably makes him the smartest guy in the paddock.

Captain Hammer wrote:If Hulkenberg is defecting because he knows the writing is on the wall financially, then that probably makes him the smartest guy in the paddock.

Not rocket science. Mallya is in trouble on several fronts & it's been well documented.

Hulkenberg is making one of the smartest moves of this silly season by leaving Force India for Sauber.

Any news on Alguersuari? Or was he just trolling on Twitter about having a race seat after all?

If Pic goes to Caterham then Petrov could go to Marussia? Yes, yes Maxie Chilton is probably there..

Kobayashi to HRT?

eagleash wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:If Hulkenberg is defecting because he knows the writing is on the wall financially, then that probably makes him the smartest guy in the paddock.

Not rocket science. Mallya is in trouble on several fronts & it's been well documented.

Specially by Captain Hammer's 'pal' Joe Saward. Every single time someone writes something about Mallya's problems in India he makes a post out of it. I read the guy and usually like what he says, but such stories are getting tiresome... I know Mallya is in trouble but I don't care about it. I just want to know what are Force India solutions to step out of it.

eagleash wrote:Not rocket science. Mallya is in trouble on several fronts & it's been well documented.

He'd seemingly gotten over most of them until the week before Korea, when the Indian prosecutors issued a warrant for his arrest.

DanielPT wrote:I just want to know what are Force India solutions to step out of it.

Few and far between - Mallya allegedly put the team up (as well as his IPL team, and his luxury yacht) as guarantees that Kingfisher would pay their debts.

Captain Hammer wrote:

DanielPT wrote:I just want to know what are Force India solutions to step out of it.

Few and far between - Mallya allegedly put the team up (as well as his IPL team, and his luxury yacht) as guarantees that Kingfisher would pay their debts.

In that case, I wonder if Tata would jump in and take charge of a team that will probably be sold under its price tag. They are already involved in being Karthikeyan's sponsors so it would be logical, as a manufacturer, to make that step. Hell, they could even revive Jaguar's name in F1!

A lot has to happen before anything like that can take place. For one, Mallya would need to be charged and convicted, and he's got the contacts to get out of it. The court would then have to take control of his assets and appoint a liquidator to settle Mallya's debts. And the liquidator would probably wait to sell the team off last, mostly because it would be very difficult to convert the team into cash. It would be a great way to pick up a reasonably-competitive Formula 1 team for relatively little, but the problem is that you the have to keep spending, and the sale would likely break up the techncial team as the other teams poach away the talent.

But all of that is moot. I suspect Mallya will avoid the charges and continue to run the team, all the while insisting that nothing is wrong with Kingfisher, even if the planes start crashing because he can't afford the fuel anymore.

Hulkenberg has gone and done a Hirvonen. At first look it didn't make any sense, but the true reasons revealed themseves in the end...and a very good reason it was in both cases.

Captain Hammer wrote:A lot has to happen before anything like that can take place. For one, Mallya would need to be charged and convicted, and he's got the contacts to get out of it. The court would then have to take control of his assets and appoint a liquidator to settle Mallya's debts. And the liquidator would probably wait to sell the team off last, mostly because it would be very difficult to convert the team into cash. It would be a great way to pick up a reasonably-competitive Formula 1 team for relatively little, but the problem is that you the have to keep spending, and the sale would likely break up the techncial team as the other teams poach away the talent.

But all of that is moot. I suspect Mallya will avoid the charges and continue to run the team, all the while insisting that nothing is wrong with Kingfisher, even if the planes start crashing because he can't afford the fuel anymore.

I think that, before any possible Mallya's convictions (if they indeed happen, as you correctly point out), one must find out how much Mallya is willing to do to save Kingfisher. What I meant is if he is willing to further sell his part on the team in order to try and lift his airline out of trouble. And I am guessing he is. He already sold a bit less than half to Sahara and he could well leave to raise more cash. There is still the small matter of Sahara being there if someone else wants to takeover.

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:What Kimi ACTUALLY did next.

Blimey. I'm left confused and feeling slightly scared. Not least because of the fish in a helmet.

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:What Kimi ACTUALLY did next.

Bah, just some sponsorship publiocrap. I thought he was joining HRT by the way they portrayed it in the video (surprising signing so he wants to keep it a secret)

I'm not usually an emotional person, but...

If Sauber dumps Kobayashi, I hope they slide down the grid, become bankrupt, and basically die a horrible death.

Yes, how dare they drop an under-performing driver like that. Especially when they intend to replace him with a highly-rated and better-performing young driver!

Hulk may be slightly better, diresta may be slightly better....but what I don't want to see is another dull German and another dull Brit in a good ride instead of the two more interesting guys from countries that don't have other f1 drivers atm.

I think personal preference with drivers is a very valid reason to choose to quit supporting a team, no matter how sensible move it might be for the team in theory etc.

giraurd wrote:Hulk may be slightly better, diresta may be slightly better....but what I don't want to see is another dull German and another dull Brit in a good ride instead of the two more interesting guys from countries that don't have other f1 drivers atm.

Well, tough; if Sauber think signing Hulkenberg will help, they're perfectly entitled to do that. Hulkenberg might be boring and entitled, but there's no denying he's got talent. At least we know they're hiring him solely based on that rather than anything else. If Kobayashi can't get a drive for next year, then, much as it pains me to say it, it's his own fault for simply not being good enough.

giraurd wrote:Hulk may be slightly better, diresta may be slightly better....but what I don't want to see is another dull German and another dull Brit in a good ride instead of the two more interesting guys from countries that don't have other f1 drivers atm.

Sauber are obligatd to take whoever they feel are the two best drivers available to them at any given them. The moment they start picking drivers based on ther personality and whether or not their nation is already preresented on the grid is the moment they stop being a racing team.

If Kamui Kobayashi can score another podium finish this year, he would be come the best Japanese driver in F1 ever. To me, he is that already. And in that case, it seems likely a team will get him on board. And if not, there is always the Pirelli test driver role.

Captain Hammer wrote:Yes, how dare they drop an under-performing driver like that. Especially when they intend to replace him with a highly-rated and better-performing young driver!

But it's Kamui bathplugging Kobayashi, you boring person!

And anyway, F1 without a Japanese driver just doesn't feel right, so that's a convincing argument for Kamui to be kept. Full stop, new paragraph. Now move on.

Yeah, and I am obligated to stop support them for 'keeping on being a racing team' or something.

(Plus personally I consider Hulk rather overrated anyhow).

I don't really see any reason to attack people for that, mr Hammer.

And if Kobayashi goes it might be a long time before we see another Japanese driver in F1. There were no Japanese drivers in GP2, Formula Renault 3.5, British F3, European F3 Championship, F3 Euro Series, or European F3 Open, and in GP3 Kotaru Sakurai raced under the flag of the Philippines. Also, without manufacturer support, it seems unlikely that drivers such as Yu Kanamaru and Yoshitaka Kuroda will make it to F1.