Grand Prix Rejects

Alright, family matters. Both literally and figurative. We all know these certains family where a certain sport runs through the blood. Professional Wrestling has the Fliehrs, the Anoa'i family, football has the Freys and the Allen family. And of course, motorsports and, more specific, F1 is no exception. We have the Villeneuves, the Hills and of course our favourite family, the Winkelhocks. But how do you think family relations are playing out in F1 and the road to it?
Are there drivers who you really believe to have only gotten anywhere because of their name? Do you think it is even possible to live up to the fame of certain names? And are there any racing families, where the following generation really topped their predeccesors [sp?]
Of course, I'll go with the obvious nomination of Nelson Piquet Jr., who only seemed to match his father in terms of (percieved) arrogance. But I'll also raise a controversial one, Bruno Senna seems to me not as good as many people make him out to be, although, as Alesi recently said, you only know how quick you are when you enter F1, so I'll reserve actual judgement for later.

Oh, and ....
inb4 Half Schumacher joke!

Dale Earnhardt, Jr. -- Won Most Popular Driver like 8 years in a row after his father (7-time NASCAR champion Dale Earnhardt, Sr.) was killed on the last lap of the most famous NASCAR race of all -- the Daytona 500. Says enough. Especially when you see how crap he's been doing for the past four years...

Casey Mears -- sucked in CART, sucked in the IRL, and whaddaya know, sucks in NASCAR, too! He's the nephew of the great Indycar driver Rick Mears. Speaking of Rick Mears, I heard he was once offered an F1 drive but didn't take it because he didn't want to bring money to the team, he'd rather have his efforts behind the wheel speak for themselves!

Paul Menard -- In NASCAR because his father is John Menard, who owns Menards and ran the infamous Team Menard CART/IRL team which had its own engine

Graham Rahal -- Son of F1 Reject and CART legend Bobby Rahal.

Tomas Scheckter -- Son of Jody. Was driving Indycars and couldn't hack it there...

John Andretti / Marco Andretti

Klon wrote:Of course, I'll go with the obvious nomination of Nelson Piquet Jr., who only seemed to match his father in terms of (percieved) arrogance.

Okay, this may be slightly controvertial here, but I'm going to disagree with you and say he didn't get into F1 because of his roots. Thing is, he came second in GP2, just like Heikki Kovalainen. He had a year's testing time at Renault, just like Heikki Kovalainen. Up until Melbourne 2008 I don't think even Flavio knew he was going to be as hopeless as he was.

You didn't mention the Fittipaldis!

Valentino Rossi only ever made it because of his father's success! Well, no.

A well-known father/uncle/whatever may open some doors later on, but if you don't have the speed to stick to the midfield, it is irrelevant and even a hindrance.

I agree. Having a famous name can help open doors but ultimately it doesn't ensure that you make it to Formula 1 or any other top echelon of motorsport.

thehemogoblin mentioned John Andretti and Jeff Andretti. John Andretti won a CART race, driving for Jim Hall. Also, he was a successful sportscar driver and he at least had a pole in NASCAR. As for Marco, he had a pole and a win but not a lot else in Indycar. Remember Jeff Andretti, as well. He was Rookie of the Year in CART in 1991, but never did much.
Al Unser III has pretty much done nothing with his career, like AJ Foyt IV.

Christian Fittipaldi was a very good driver for a while, but his career pretty much died out as soon as he left Formula 1. He was highly regarded within Arrows and the guys still spoke about him years later, but he had to pay his way and he ran out of money.

Nobody has yet mentioned the Brabhams. While I know the successes of Sir Jack Brabham and David Brabham's sportscar successes and his success at holding Simtek together throughout 1994, I know little of Gary Brabham other than some link with the Life F1 team...

Faustus wrote:Christian Fittipaldi was a very good driver for a while, but his career pretty much died out as soon as he left Formula 1. He was highly regarded within Arrows and the guys still spoke about him years later, but he had to pay his way and he ran out of money.

I always rated Christian Fittipaldi, he was very good.

Faustus wrote:thehemogoblin mentioned John Andretti and Jeff Andretti. John Andretti won a CART race, driving for Jim Hall. Also, he was a successful sportscar driver and he at least had a pole in NASCAR. As for Marco, he had a pole and a win but not a lot else in Indycar. Remember Jeff Andretti, as well. He was Rookie of the Year in CART in 1991, but never did much.

John Andretti won two NASCAR races -- one at Daytona, no less, and the other at Martinsville, driving Richard Petty's famous #43. He still runs in NASCAR these days, but the team he is driving for is not exactly... competitive...

Marco Andretti is a talentless hack in Indycar. The only thing he's good at is crashing.

Jeff Andretti actually showed a lot of promise, but he was never the same after injuries he sustained in the 1992 Indy 500 where he hammered the wall feet-first while driving as A.J. Foyt's teammate. The 1992 Indy 500 was, for no better word for it, a failfest, due to the track being very cold and the tires not ever coming up to temperature, which nobody was prepared for.

CarlosFerreira wrote:Valentino Rossi only ever made it because of his father's success! Well, no.

A well-known father/uncle/whatever may open some doors later on, but if you don't have the speed to stick to the midfield, it is irrelevant and even a hindrance.

His father rode for Morbidelli of all teams!

I'd like to point out that even a name doesn't necessarily guarantee a top GP2 drive, let alone F1. Vanina Ickx, Mathias Lauda, Nicolas Prost, and Leo Mansell all spring to mind.

Also, anyone else remember Juan Manuel Fangio II?

I thought someone would've ventured with Bruno Senna by now, but I'm actually glad because I think he's got some real talent, especially when you consider he doesn't have the whole racing background of his peers, having missed out on a junior career after Ayrton's passing...

His development curve has been rather spectacular actually, learning and progressing at the same rate, and in some cases quicker than his peers... coming 2nd in GP2 after only 4 years of car racing (and pretty much nothing before for the previous ten years!)! And then being only beaten to a Brawn seat in F1 due to his lack of experience!!! The guy even looks like Ayrton... scary...


What about Kazuki Nakajima? He's not been anything special anywhere, yet Toyota are so keen to hang on to him in their driving stable...

watka wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:


Also, anyone else remember Juan Manuel Fangio II?

I vaguely remember him always qualifying last in Indycar in 1996. Without looking it up, I don't know what happen to him afterthat?

ibsey wrote:

watka wrote:Also, anyone else remember Juan Manuel Fangio II?

I vaguely remember him always qualifying last in Indycar in 1996. Without looking it up, I don't know what happen to him afterthat?

Retired a year later. He won the IMSA GTP & Sebring 12H twice though didn't he? Wasn't an entirely useless driver...

watka wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:
I'd like to point out that even a name doesn't necessarily guarantee a top GP2 drive, let alone F1. Vanina Ickx, Mathias Lauda, Nicolas Prost, and Leo Mansell all spring to mind.

It is somewhat funny, how little their is in the way of sons of 'reject' F1 drivers making it to GP2 or F1. Apart from Nakajima two sons I can only recall Erik Comas son, being in Forumla BMW a couple of years ago.

Fabian Coulthard not so distant relative of the last scottish F1 driver? But he's probably in V8 Supercars through his own credit, not that he's got into any success there.

Stefan Hodgetts: His father (Chris Hodgetts) being the multiple BTCC champion back in the days where 4 different Tiers competed for the same title (Class A: Ford Sierras, Class B: BMW M3s and Ford Escorts, CLass C: VW Golfs and Vauxhall Astras, and class D (Hodgett's hive, Toyota Corollas and Honda Civics), Stefan was in a customer Vauxhall Astra in the first and only gloruous "BTC Spec Vs Super2000" series*, and at one of the triple-race events, completely took out one driver in what internet racers would call a "Revenge Wreck"

* BTC Spec: 2 Litre with a huge spoiler consisting of VX-R Astras (Yvan Muller & Jason Plato), Honda Civics (Matt Neal & Tom Chilton), MGs (Anthony Ried) Competing alongside the now WTCC spec Super 2000 Seat Toledo Cupras (Jason Plato) and at the time uncompetitive BMW 3 series and Alfa 156s. for 2004 an average of 20 cars at each venue,

ADx_Wales wrote:Stefan Hodgetts: His father (Chris Hodgetts) being the multiple BTCC champion back in the days where 4 different Tiers competed for the same title (Class A: Ford Sierras, Class B: BMW M3s and Ford Escorts, CLass C: VW Golfs and Vauxhall Astras, and class D (Hodgett's hive, Toyota Corollas and Honda Civics), Stefan was in a customer Vauxhall Astra in the first and only gloruous "BTC Spec Vs Super2000" series*, and at one of the triple-race events, completely took out one driver in what internet racers would call a "Revenge Wreck"

That's what NASCAR fans call business as usual. But you are talking about the BTCC, so I'm not sure if it was revenge or just stupidity.

Cynon wrote:

ADx_Wales wrote:Stefan Hodgetts: His father (Chris Hodgetts) being the multiple BTCC champion back in the days where 4 different Tiers competed for the same title (Class A: Ford Sierras, Class B: BMW M3s and Ford Escorts, CLass C: VW Golfs and Vauxhall Astras, and class D (Hodgett's hive, Toyota Corollas and Honda Civics), Stefan was in a customer Vauxhall Astra in the first and only gloruous "BTC Spec Vs Super2000" series*, and at one of the triple-race events, completely took out one driver in what internet racers would call a "Revenge Wreck"

That's what NASCAR fans call business as usual. But you are talking about the BTCC, so I'm not sure if it was revenge or just stupidity.

Revenge is a dish best served accompanied with a chrome horn.

ADx_Wales wrote:Fabian Coulthard not so distant relative of the last scottish F1 driver? But he's probably in V8 Supercars through his own credit, not that he's got into any success there.

No relation. Has potential but was stuck with a hand-me-down Ford from Triple Eight. Now he's at HRT for this season we'll find out if he's really any good...

redbulljack14 wrote:

Faustus wrote:Christian Fittipaldi was a very good driver for a while, but his career pretty much died out as soon as he left Formula 1. He was highly regarded within Arrows and the guys still spoke about him years later, but he had to pay his way and he ran out of money.

I always rated Christian Fittipaldi, he was very good.

That was an overrated dork, besides always giving me an impression of being a guy with limited inteligence and big ego.
He had always financial support from the family to reach F-1, the local press twisted the news and rooted against other Brazilians in order to make him a local idol. His limitations eventually caught up with him in F-1 and CART.

At least, he gave me one of the most gratifying moments in motorsport, when he spun at the end of the Interlagos straight causing Alain Prost to collide with him, in the 1993 Brazilian GP.

rffp wrote:

redbulljack14 wrote:

Faustus wrote:Christian Fittipaldi was a very good driver for a while, but his career pretty much died out as soon as he left Formula 1. He was highly regarded within Arrows and the guys still spoke about him years later, but he had to pay his way and he ran out of money.

I always rated Christian Fittipaldi, he was very good.

That was an overrated dork, besides always giving me an impression of being a guy with limited inteligence and big ego.
He had always financial support from the family to reach F-1, the local press twisted the news and rooted against other Brazilians in order to make him a local idol. His limitations eventually caught up with him in F-1 and CART.

At least, he gave me one of the most gratifying moments in motorsport, when he spun at the end of the Interlagos straight causing Alain Prost to collide with him, in the 1993 Brazilian GP.

Not to mention his backflip at Monza in 1993 against his team-mate!

Would Scott Speed count in this thread?

tristan1117 wrote:Would Scott Speed count in this thread?

Well played, sir, well played!

ibsey wrote:

watka wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:


Also, anyone else remember Juan Manuel Fangio II?

I vaguely remember him always qualifying last in Indycar in 1996. Without looking it up, I don't know what happen to him afterthat?

Well, last time (and first time) I heard of him he was actually racing trucks...

AJ Foyt IV

He's no AJ Foyt III

Mathias Lauda is the name of this topic, the worse driver-son-of-driver that ever existed.

I remember Freddie Hunt tried Formula Ford a few years ago - I saw hime race at Brands Hatch. He was dire, and haven't heard of him since...

Last seen in Germany racing in either a club F3 series or one-make single seater event, decided to stop racing, and is now a shootist.

Raced in ADAC Formula Masters last year...but only scored 5 points before being sacked/running out of money (delete as appropriate) and sitting out the rest of the year.

ibsey wrote:

watka wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:


Also, anyone else remember Juan Manuel Fangio II?

I vaguely remember him always qualifying last in Indycar in 1996. Without looking it up, I don't know what happen to him afterthat?

I always remembering him doing better in IMSA with the Eagle MK III, and his back of the pack racer in CART in 1996 with the junk Eagle MK IV and in 97 with the much better Reynard 96i and Reynard 97i, though those Toyota engines didn't help.

PJ Jones not as good of a driver as his dad Parnelli Jones

Well, being the son of a famous driver doesn't always guarantee a high profile - Nicolas Prost, for example, is pretty low profile (although since he is now competing in this years Le Mans, I expect that his stock might rise a bit).
I would suggest that Nico Rosberg might come into this class, although I would say that he has driven well enough to justify making it into F1 on merit.
On another note, have there been any situations where the reverse has happened - in other words, the son of a driver has entered the sport only to do much better then their parent (or any other relative) did?

mario wrote:Well, being the son of a famous driver doesn't always guarantee a high profile - Nicolas Prost, for example, is pretty low profile (although since he is now competing in this years Le Mans, I expect that his stock might rise a bit).
I would suggest that Nico Rosberg might come into this class, although I would say that he has driven well enough to justify making it into F1 on merit.
On another note, have there been any situations where the reverse has happened - in other words, the son of a driver has entered the sport only to do much better then their parent (or any other relative) did?

Jacques Villeneuve?

thehemogoblin wrote:

mario wrote:Well, being the son of a famous driver doesn't always guarantee a high profile - Nicolas Prost, for example, is pretty low profile (although since he is now competing in this years Le Mans, I expect that his stock might rise a bit).
I would suggest that Nico Rosberg might come into this class, although I would say that he has driven well enough to justify making it into F1 on merit.
On another note, have there been any situations where the reverse has happened - in other words, the son of a driver has entered the sport only to do much better then their parent (or any other relative) did?

Jacques Villeneuve?

I suppose that is technically true, since Gilles never did win a championship - but then again, I would doubt that there would be many who would say that Jacques was a superior driver to his father.

Markus Winkelhock?

thehemogoblin wrote:Markus Winkelhock?

The elder Winkelhocks never led a race for 6 glorious laps.

shinji wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:Markus Winkelhock?

The elder Winkelhocks never led a race for 6 glorious laps.

It was in response to Mario.

kostas22 wrote:

ADx_Wales wrote:Fabian Coulthard not so distant relative of the last scottish F1 driver? But he's probably in V8 Supercars through his own credit, not that he's got into any success there.

No relation. Has potential but was stuck with a hand-me-down Ford from Triple Eight. Now he's at HRT for this season we'll find out if he's really any good...

Is actually a second cousin of DC...

Ewan "Obi Wan Kenobi" Mcgregor is the nephew of Denis "Biggs" Lawson.

Oh, hang on, wrong forum...

danardif1 wrote:

kostas22 wrote:

ADx_Wales wrote:Fabian Coulthard not so distant relative of the last scottish F1 driver? But he's probably in V8 Supercars through his own credit, not that he's got into any success there.

No relation. Has potential but was stuck with a hand-me-down Ford from Triple Eight. Now he's at HRT for this season we'll find out if he's really any good...

Is actually a second cousin of DC...

That's like pointing out I'm related to Jackie Stewart...I am, but so distant I never mention it. (I can't even remember how exactly I am )

kostas22 wrote:That's like pointing out I'm related to Jackie Stewart...I am, but so distant I never mention it. (I can't even remember how exactly I am )

If you dont go around the house wearing your clan tartan all the time then you're probably pretty distant.