Grand Prix Rejects

Wizzie wrote:Stefan Meta F1... it could work

The Horse Whisperer - For whom the bell tolls

Maranello, 22nd February - Only less than three weeks to go until the ultimate form of motor sport, the Formula 1 World Championship, gets underway, while celebrating its sixtieth birthday this year. For many of the teams, this coming week is a crucial one, as the bell rings to signal the final lap, with the last test session getting underway in Barcelona. It is one last chance to run the cars on track, to push reliability to the limit and to try and find some performance. That’s the situation for many teams but not for all of them. Of the thirteen teams who signed up, or were induced to sign up, for this year’s Championship, to date only eleven of them have heeded the call, turning up on track, some later than others, and while some have managed just a few hundred kilometres, others have done more, but at a much reduced pace. As for the twelfth team, Campos Meta, its shareholder and management structure has been transformed, according to rumours which have reached the Horse Whisperer through the paddock telegraph, with a sudden cash injection from a munificent white knight, well used to this sort of last minute rescue deal. However, the beneficiaries of this generosity might find the knight in question expects them to fulfil the role of loyal vassal. All this means, it is hard to imagine the Dallara designed car showing its face at the Catalunya Circuit, with Sakhir a more likely venue to witness the return of the Senna name to a Formula 1 session.

The thirteenth team, USF1, appears to have gone into hiding in Charlotte, North Carolina, to the dismay of those like the Argentinian, Lopez, who thought he had found his way into the Formula 1 paddock, (albeit with help from chairwoman Kirchner, according to the rumours) and now has to start all over again. Amazingly, they still have the impudence to claim that everything is hunky-dory under the starry stripy sky.

Next, we have the Serbian vultures. Firstly, they launched themselves into a quixotic legal battle with the FIA, then they picked the bones of Toyota on its death bed. Having got some people on board, around whom there was still a whiff of past scandals, they are now hovering around waiting to replace whoever is first to drop out of the game, possibly with backing from that very same knight in shining armour whom we mentioned earlier.

This is the legacy of the holy war waged by the former FIA president. The cause in question was to allow smaller teams to get into Formula 1. This is the outcome: two teams will limp into the start of the championship, a third is being pushed into the ring by an invisible hand – you can be sure it is not the hand of Adam Smith – and, as for the fourth, well, you would do better to call on Missing Persons to locate it. In the meantime, we have lost two constructors along the way, in the shape of BMW and Toyota, while at Renault, there’s not much left other than the name. Was it all worth it?

rffp wrote:I agree with what Ferrari has said about the new teams. There are a bunch of hacks trying to find their way into F-1, and they are nothing like the garagists of old time. These guys come into F-1 with enthusiasm but no planning, no skills and no capacity to do the bare minimum. It reminds me of the new teams that sprung when turbos were outlawed

madcat wrote:Three rejects don't make a right...

Stefangp wrote:Mmm...pondering this proposal, I think that Campos Meta, or whatever there new name is now Adrian has been unceremoniously dumped, will think that they can just about coble a gearbox and Cosworth to the back of a Dallara chassis, so I don't think that will happen.

The USF1 and Stefan GP merger is more plausible, although geographically impractical. With USF1 in Charlotte & Spain and Stefan GP in Serbia & Cologne with Toyota support coming Japan (and Cologne too!), having a team spread over 4-5 counties would not work at all.

Plus, if there were to be a merger between Stefan GP and USF1, who would have the upper-hand in saying who manages the team and what it will be called? USF1 has the FIA entry but nothing else yet Stefan GP seemingly have a complete chassis and engine, plus at least one driver who is committed to the cause (Nakajima with Lopez and "chairwoman Argentina" as Ferrari so literally translated it today said, flashing their eyelids to Kolles and the new squad.)

My money would be on either Stefan GP getting the USF1 slot after they are struck off from the FIA list, or Stefan GP testing the year round and coming to the grid in 2011.

They can't test without tyres.
Though, maybe if they can get an entry for 2011 early, whoever the new tyre supplier will be (or maybe Bridgestone'll stick around) will be willing to give them tyres.

CarlosFerreira wrote:Who else thinks it was never USF1's intention to make it to the grid - and that neither it is StefanGP's, so rendering a farcical merger impossible?

CarlosFerreira wrote:Who else thinks it was never USF1's intention to make it to the grid - and that neither it is StefanGP's, so rendering a farcical merger impossible?

Phoenix wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:Who else thinks it was never USF1's intention to make it to the grid - and that neither it is StefanGP's, so rendering a farcical merger impossible?

Yeah, it's a common joke nowadays. You call the FIA saying you want to enter F1 and that you have a project with sponsors. As it turns out, you release a lot of fake media to keep things going until a month before starting the season. Then, you say that you have financial troubles and that you won't make it to the first 4 races. When the 2 first races are done, you go and say that you will never be able to make it, and slip quietly into oblivion, all the while laughing you like a lunatic in your inside...

AndreaModa wrote:I'm sorry for the strong feelings but the day that Ferrari end up solidly mid-pack like they were for most of the 70s and they're forced to eat some humble pie whilst other teams dominate the championship will be a great day in my opinion.

CarlosFerreira wrote:

Phoenix wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:Who else thinks it was never USF1's intention to make it to the grid - and that neither it is StefanGP's, so rendering a farcical merger impossible?

Yeah, it's a common joke nowadays. You call the FIA saying you want to enter F1 and that you have a project with sponsors. As it turns out, you release a lot of fake media to keep things going until a month before starting the season. Then, you say that you have financial troubles and that you won't make it to the first 4 races. When the 2 first races are done, you go and say that you will never be able to make it, and slip quietly into oblivion, all the while laughing you like a lunatic in your inside...

Wrong. You obtain a valuable asset - a car, or entry to the World Championship - that you don't intend to use; and then sell it on. It's the same with buying a house to make a profit.

As I said, on the money.

Phoenix wrote:Never thought about that. I never thought someone could do something like that in F1. But this season, who's going to take on that? USF1 has no car, and Stefan no money...

CarlosFerreira wrote:

Phoenix wrote:Never thought about that. I never thought someone could do something like that in F1. But this season, who's going to take on that? USF1 has no car, and Stefan no money...

I think they were sort of counting on each other to come up with the money and unload the goods...

shinji wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:I'm sorry for the strong feelings but the day that Ferrari end up solidly mid-pack like they were for most of the 70s and they're forced to eat some humble pie whilst other teams dominate the championship will be a great day in my opinion.

It's happening man. It's happening.

Or at least it happened. Last season will be Ferrari's worst for the foreseeable future.

Result: an useless farce. At least Stefan can try to sell the car next year with some luck...

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Who else thinks it was never USF1's intention to make it to the grid - and that neither it is StefanGP's, so rendering a farcical merger impossible?

When did you decide that you wanted to enter F1?

Basically 25 years ago. I was always interested in engineering production and since starting our engineering business we are certain that motorsport, especially Formula 1, will be the ultimate goal for us. I tried to do it before, but all the pieces could not quite fall in place, so we did not publish all the details in the media. Nevertheless it was not without its achievements, as we managed to secure proper funding. Regarding our technical capabilities at this time (1997) we built titanium pneumatic valves for an F1 customer in England

elho wrote:

rffp wrote:I agree with what Ferrari has said about the new teams. There are a bunch of hacks trying to find their way into F-1, and they are nothing like the garagists of old time. These guys come into F-1 with enthusiasm but no planning, no skills and no capacity to do the bare minimum. It reminds me of the new teams that sprung when turbos were outlawed

but the choice process made by FIA was kinda obscure.
I still don't understand why Epsilon Euskadi was rejected, they have a lot of experience and even built a Le Mans prototype.
they had much better chance of being on the grid than USF1, that had nothing them. and now have a nose.

elho wrote:but the choice process made by FIA was kinda obscure.
I still don't understand why Epsilon Euskadi was rejected, they have a lot of experience and even built a Le Mans prototype.
they had much better chance of being on the grid than USF1, that had nothing them. and now have a nose.

Wizzie wrote:

elho wrote:but the choice process made by FIA was kinda obscure.
I still don't understand why Epsilon Euskadi was rejected, they have a lot of experience and even built a Le Mans prototype.
they had much better chance of being on the grid than USF1, that had nothing them. and now have a nose.

Anything the FIA does is obscure and incredibly hard to understand the logic behind.

Stefangp wrote:

When did you decide that you wanted to enter F1?

Basically 25 years ago. I was always interested in engineering production and since starting our engineering business we are certain that motorsport, especially Formula 1, will be the ultimate goal for us. I tried to do it before, but all the pieces could not quite fall in place, so we did not publish all the details in the media. Nevertheless it was not without its achievements, as we managed to secure proper funding. Regarding our technical capabilities at this time (1997) we built titanium pneumatic valves for an F1 customer in England

And I wouldn't dismiss the fact that he has no money given the fact that http://www.amco.st/index.php AMCO, Mr. Stefanovic's company, manufacturer Helicopters, Aircraft and Rockets and selling to various Military around the world. AMCO has 4 wind tunnels, 2 of which Mr. Stefanovic says are at the disposal of the team.

The word that the Serbian government are backing the team is probably linked to AMCO with some deal being done there. Don't forget, as someone has mentioned in a previous thread, Serbia is trying to shake off the stigma of the old Eastern bloc countries (tractors and donkeys I think were mentioned!) and having a team in F1 is a sure-fire way of spreading the word around the world that the country is well and truly into the 21st century.

Stefangp wrote:And I wouldn't dismiss the fact that he has no money given the fact that http://www.amco.st/index.php AMCO, Mr. Stefanovic's company, manufacturer Helicopters, Aircraft and Rockets and selling to various Military around the world. AMCO has 4 wind tunnels, 2 of which Mr. Stefanovic says are at the disposal of the team.

The word that the Serbian government are backing the team is probably linked to AMCO with some deal being done there. Don't forget, as someone has mentioned in a previous thread, Serbia is trying to shake off the stigma of the old Eastern bloc countries (tractors and donkeys I think were mentioned!) and having a team in F1 is a sure-fire way of spreading the word around the world that the country is well and truly into the 21st century.

CarlosFerreira wrote:Regarding the AMCO connection: Mr Stefaovic's company can make him a large deal of money, no doubt, but moving money from there into an F1 foray is not the way things are made. We are not in the 1950's anymore, and people don't take money from their day-to-day business to pour into F1. Regardless of how large and profitable AMCO is, pouring money into F1 would not be productive. While Force India's Mr Vijay Mallya can decide to sponsor the racing outfit and obtain a return thanks to exposure, arms companies don't sponsor their efforts to the public much; they lobby within government and civil servants, who are their potential costumers.

BigG80 wrote:An excellent post there Carlos.

BigG80 wrote:It does indeed look like the plucky Serbian upstarts that we all loved to support are not what we would wish to them to be.

I can't help feeling saddened by that.

CarlosFerreira wrote:

BigG80 wrote:An excellent post there Carlos.

Thanks. kostas22 always says I talk a load of crap (I do!), so it's nice to put in the effort at times.

BigG80 wrote:It does indeed look like the plucky Serbian upstarts that we all loved to support are not what we would wish to them to be.

I can't help feeling saddened by that.

Yeah, don't get me wrong - I wish they were a proper team, and would be accordingly rewarded with an entry to the Championship. It's just that I think they aren't, and as a result they probably shouldn't.

Stefangp wrote:

They can't test without tyres.
Though, maybe if they can get an entry for 2011 early, whoever the new tyre supplier will be (or maybe Bridgestone'll stick around) will be willing to give them tyres.

Waris, an interesting point. I presume back in 2001 when Michelin supplied Toyota their tyres during the year of testing, either Michelin didn't have that rule back then or Toyota already had their 2002 grid slot.