Grand Prix Rejects

I was having a look through the Hall Of Shame last night and was thinking could there me any possible new contenders in there, since there don;t appear to be many entries in there since 2000!

Here's some I was thinking

Nelson Piquet Jr for "You Lucky B******d" (though did he scrape enough other points finishes in 2008 not to need his flukey safety-car induced 2nd at Hockenheim?)
Michael Schumacher for "Hang Up The Keys" for his comeback this year (unless he stays on next year and improves greatly)
Alonso and Hamilton 2007 for "Punch and Judy" (possibly Webber and Vettel could be in this too!)
USA 2006 for "Panelbeatears Alert"
Lewis Hamilton for China 2007 and Canada 2008 for "Severe Brainfade"
Trulli on Sutil for "Watch your Ear", Brazil 2009 (I agree that it was totally Trulli's fault though!)

James1978 wrote:Nelson Piquet Jr for "You Lucky B******d" (though did he scrape enough other points finishes in 2008 not to need his flukey safety-car induced 2nd at Hockenheim?)

Yes, he had a 4th in Fuji. (and a 6th in Hungary, but that wasn't needed). I still think he'd be a worthwile addition though.

How about Jacques Villeneuve for Hang Up the Keys?

Maybe we could use the F1 Rejects Wiki to throw together a draft or two. Just a suggestion.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Maybe we could use the F1 Rejects Wiki to throw together a draft or two. Just a suggestion.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Maybe we could use the F1 Rejects Wiki to throw together a draft or two. Just a suggestion.

Emphasis on the "Rejects" part...

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Maybe we could use the F1 Rejects Wiki to throw together a draft or two. Just a suggestion.

Does it still exist?
No-one has credited me for my Danny Ongais profile yet

tc3j3r wrote:

James1978 wrote:Nelson Piquet Jr for "You Lucky B******d" (though did he scrape enough other points finishes in 2008 not to need his flukey safety-car induced 2nd at Hockenheim?)

Yes, he had a 4th in Fuji. (and a 6th in Hungary, but that wasn't needed). I still think he'd be a worthwile addition though.

How about Jacques Villeneuve for Hang Up the Keys?

Actually I thought Villeneuve was doing OK in 2006 before BMW gave him the shove.......

Maybe we should have a new section called "Murphy's Law" for the times where people just have races from hell (Webber in Japan last year and Europe this year spring to mind)

And I have to throw Sebastian Vettel's name in the ring for the "Severe Brain Fade' category for running into the back of Webber in Japan 07

James1978 wrote:

tc3j3r wrote:

James1978 wrote:Nelson Piquet Jr for "You Lucky B******d" (though did he scrape enough other points finishes in 2008 not to need his flukey safety-car induced 2nd at Hockenheim?)

Yes, he had a 4th in Fuji. (and a 6th in Hungary, but that wasn't needed). I still think he'd be a worthwile addition though.

How about Jacques Villeneuve for Hang Up the Keys?

Actually I thought Villeneuve was doing OK in 2006 before BMW gave him the shove.......

True, but 01-05 were all hopeless for him. His decision to come back after 03 was one of the most puzzling I have ever seen. But what really clinches it is that he is STLL trying to make a comeback...

I've gotten to work on the new "Murphy's Law" section of the Hall of Shame. Any more suggestions in addition to the two I've already mentioned?

Wizzie wrote:I've gotten to work on the new "Murphy's Law" section of the Hall of Shame. Any more suggestions in addition to the two I've already mentioned?

Team Amon. If it couldn't break, it would anyway.

Wizzie wrote:I've gotten to work on the new "Murphy's Law" section of the Hall of Shame. Any more suggestions in addition to the two I've already mentioned?

Michael Schumacher in China 2004? Felipe Massa in Hungary 2007?

tc3j3r wrote:Michael Schumacher in China 2004?

Sounds like a great one to use. I'll add that to the list tomorrow

Felipe Massa in Hungary 2007?

This was the race where the engine went BANG 3 laps from the end right? If so then it doesn't really qualify as this looks more on the weekend as a whole.

RejectSteve wrote:Team Amon. If it couldn't break, it would anyway.

The award is for a specific driver at a specific race.

If we had an award called "WMD to be found here" that, the McLaren MP4/19 and MP4/20 and some of Red Bull's creations would certainly qualify

Wizzie wrote:

Felipe Massa in Hungary 2007?

This was the race where the engine went BANG 3 laps from the end right? If so then it doesn't really qualify as this looks more on the weekend as a whole.

No, Hungary 2007 was the race where he qualified 14th, spent half the race running behind Sato's Super Aguri and finished a lapped 13th...

tc3j3r wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

Felipe Massa in Hungary 2007?

This was the race where the engine went BANG 3 laps from the end right? If so then it doesn't really qualify as this looks more on the weekend as a whole.

No, Hungary 2007 was the race where he qualified 14th, spent half the race running behind Sato's Super Aguri and finished a lapped 13th...

Ah... it was Hungary 08 where the engine went bang...

I've added Schumi - China 04 to the list.

Any others I should do?

Salo in Hungary '99 (similar to Massa in '07) - he was running amongst Arrows and Minardis when his teammate Irvine at least came 3rd!

Ralf in Japan 2003 would be a good one too!

tc3j3r wrote:

Wizzie wrote:I've gotten to work on the new "Murphy's Law" section of the Hall of Shame. Any more suggestions in addition to the two I've already mentioned?

Michael Schumacher in China 2004? Felipe Massa in Hungary 2007?

What about Honda's entire existence from 2007-2008? I heard that Jenson Button said one of the Hondas from those years was so bad that no matter what they did to it, it just created a lot more drag... and if that's not Murphy's Law...

Chico Serra v. Raul Boesel, Canada, 1982. That's what belongs in the "Watch Your Ear!" section, not crap like Trulli v. Sutil in Brazil, 2009.

Cynon wrote:What about Honda's entire existence from 2007-2008? I heard that Jenson Button said one of the Hondas from those years was so bad that no matter what they did to it, it just created a lot more drag... and if that's not Murphy's Law...

I thought about adding it to the category but then it would break the criteria which states: "Awarded to a driver who on a certain weekend had an average start and just went downhill from there."

I've made a few additions to the section. Next up will be probably the additions of some or all of the following:
David Coulthard - Spa 98
Fernando Alonso - Canada 07
Juan Pablo Montoya - USA 03
Eddie Irvine/Mika Hakkinen - Europe 99
Luca Badoer - Europe 09
Nico Hulkenberg/Rubens Barrichello - Monaco 10
Vitaly Petrov - Canada 10
Mark Webber - Malaysia 04

Discuss

Which race was it in 2004 where Webber was being burned by something on the car, was it Malaysia? That one definitely should be on!

Also Damon Hill, Australia 1997.

Cynon wrote:

tc3j3r wrote:

Wizzie wrote:I've gotten to work on the new "Murphy's Law" section of the Hall of Shame. Any more suggestions in addition to the two I've already mentioned?

Michael Schumacher in China 2004? Felipe Massa in Hungary 2007?

What about Honda's entire existence from 2007-2008? I heard that Jenson Button said one of the Hondas from those years was so bad that no matter what they did to it, it just created a lot more drag... and if that's not Murphy's Law...

Chico Serra v. Raul Boesel, Canada, 1982. That's what belongs in the "Watch Your Ear!" section, not crap like Trulli v. Sutil in Brazil, 2009.

The 2007, and to a lesser extent. the 2008 Honda had some strange quirks. Normally, when you increase the angle of attack of the front wing elements, you increase the downforce, along with the drag, up until you reach the point where the wing stalls and the airflow separates from the wing. However, Button revealed that the RA107 had a very strange quirk - if you increased the front wing beyond a certain point, even though the wing had not stalled, the downforce at the front started to decrease - but, as a double whammy, the drag still increased. I think that the RA108 suffered from the same problem in testing, but I believe that they changed the front wing design for the first GP, and that solved the problem for the rest of the season.

Thinking about it, when Brawn took over the team and axed a load of staff, it was only really the engine division which he axed last year (because of the works deal with Mercedes), whilst a few more people have gone this year as part of the Mercedes takeover. Still, you wonder how many of those who were behind the RA 107 and RA108 - which can politely be called junk - are still at Mercedes now (and may partially explain why Mercedes are, frankly, underperforming).

I've thought about a new section, called Breaking the bank, about teams that poured a lot of money into their respective operations...for barely anything. We would have Toyota, Jaguar and Ligier in the top 3, but you can make more suggestions.
And another one called Medal of honor for those who failed to win a race or a championship on their careers because of bizarre circumstances, bad luck, brain fade, etc. The candidates could be Stirling Moss, Chris Amon, Jean Pierre Jarier, and some more. What do you think?

James1978 wrote:Which race was it in 2004 where Webber was being burned by something on the car, was it Malaysia? That one definitely should be on!

I'm pretty sure that was either France or Japan. Malaysia was the race where he dragged that crapbox of a Jaguar on the front row then got into all sorts of problems during the race.

Wizzie wrote:

James1978 wrote:Which race was it in 2004 where Webber was being burned by something on the car, was it Malaysia? That one definitely should be on!

I'm pretty sure that was either France or Japan. Malaysia was the race where he dragged that crapbox of a Jaguar on the front row then got into all sorts of problems during the race.

I've looked it up - it was Japan 2004 when he drove for Jaguar and retired, and worse, in France 2005 when he was in a Williams. On that occasion he had to continue in more and more pain, as if he'd retired it would have screwed his qualifying for the next race due to that silly rule where the people who retire from the previous race have to go out first on a dirty track (one the sillest rules ever if you ask me!)

James1978 wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

James1978 wrote:Which race was it in 2004 where Webber was being burned by something on the car, was it Malaysia? That one definitely should be on!

I'm pretty sure that was either France or Japan. Malaysia was the race where he dragged that crapbox of a Jaguar on the front row then got into all sorts of problems during the race.

I've looked it up - it was Japan 2004 when he drove for Jaguar and retired, and worse, in France 2005 when he was in a Williams. On that occasion he had to continue in more and more pain, as if he'd retired it would have screwed his qualifying for the next race due to that silly rule where the people who retire from the previous race have to go out first on a dirty track (one the sillest rules ever if you ask me!)

2005 had all sorts of silly rules if you ask me

Subliminal spam is subliminal

A "Murphy's Law" candidate would be Coulthard getting stuck behind Bernoldi at Monaco 2001.

Roberto Moreno should be a "Medal of Honour" candidate!

An obvious "Medal Of Honour" candidate would be Niki Lauda for Fuji 1976. And Damon Hill for his performance in the Arrows in Hungary 1996 (Arrows never won a race).

Yannick wrote:An obvious "Medal Of Honour" candidate would be Niki Lauda for Fuji 1976. And Damon Hill for his performance in the Arrows in Hungary 1996 (Arrows never won a race).

It was in 1997, actually.
For the Murphy's Law section, what about Jean Alesi? He drove for Tyrrell well after their good times, then for Ferrari just when their form sagged, then to Benetton after the departure of Brawn and Byrne, for Sauber on so-so years, onto Prost on their worst season ever and in 2001 when they were near bankrupcy and finally for Jordan when they were in decline. And he was involved in a silly way on an accident with Räikkönen on his departure race. Not to mention the opportunities of victory he lost due to unreliability. And a nomination to the Severe brain fade podium for running out of fuel in Australia in 1997 after forgetting to pit.

Phoenix wrote:

Yannick wrote:An obvious "Medal Of Honour" candidate would be Niki Lauda for Fuji 1976. And Damon Hill for his performance in the Arrows in Hungary 1996 (Arrows never won a race).

It was in 1997, actually.
For the Murphy's Law section, what about Jean Alesi? He drove for Tyrrell well after their good times, then for Ferrari just when their form sagged, then to Benetton after the departure of Brawn and Byrne, for Sauber on so-so years, onto Prost on their worst season ever and in 2001 when they were near bankrupcy and finally for Jordan when they were in decline. And he was involved in a silly way on an accident with Räikkönen on his departure race. Not to mention the opportunities of victory he lost due to unreliability. And a nomination to the Severe brain fade podium for running out of fuel in Australia in 1997 after forgetting to pit.

Alesi would be a prime candidate but I need specific races to meet the critera I set out

Wizzie wrote:

Phoenix wrote:

Yannick wrote:An obvious "Medal Of Honour" candidate would be Niki Lauda for Fuji 1976. And Damon Hill for his performance in the Arrows in Hungary 1996 (Arrows never won a race).

It was in 1997, actually.
For the Murphy's Law section, what about Jean Alesi? He drove for Tyrrell well after their good times, then for Ferrari just when their form sagged, then to Benetton after the departure of Brawn and Byrne, for Sauber on so-so years, onto Prost on their worst season ever and in 2001 when they were near bankrupcy and finally for Jordan when they were in decline. And he was involved in a silly way on an accident with Räikkönen on his departure race. Not to mention the opportunities of victory he lost due to unreliability. And a nomination to the Severe brain fade podium for running out of fuel in Australia in 1997 after forgetting to pit.

Alesi would be a prime candidate but I need specific races to meet the critera I set out

Then it has to be his 2000.

I think some kind of "crash corner" award should be there. A race with many drivers crashing out in the same race in the same corner in separate incidents.

- Monaco 2000, Ste Devote (Wurz, Mazzacane, Diniz, R Schumacher, Zonta and Frentzen)
- Brazil 2003, Curva do Sol (Wilson, Pizzonia, Montoya, M Schumacher, Button, Verstappen)

I think there was some corner in mid 1980s US Street circuits to fit that as well.

Bleu wrote:I think some kind of "crash corner" award should be there. A race with many drivers crashing out in the same race in the same corner in separate incidents.

- Monaco 2000, Ste Devote (Wurz, Mazzacane, Diniz, R Schumacher, Zonta and Frentzen)
- Brazil 2003, Curva do Sol (Wilson, Pizzonia, Montoya, M Schumacher, Button, Verstappen)

I think there was some corner in mid 1980s US Street circuits to fit that as well.

Another candidate:
Europe 2007: Castrol-S (Hamilton*, Button, Sutil, Rosberg, Speed, Liuzzi and Davidson*)
You also forgot to mention Webber* for Brazil 2003

* Didn't retire as a result of their excursion

Wizzie wrote:

Bleu wrote:I think some kind of "crash corner" award should be there. A race with many drivers crashing out in the same race in the same corner in separate incidents.

- Monaco 2000, Ste Devote (Wurz, Mazzacane, Diniz, R Schumacher, Zonta and Frentzen)
- Brazil 2003, Curva do Sol (Wilson, Pizzonia, Montoya, M Schumacher, Button, Verstappen)

I think there was some corner in mid 1980s US Street circuits to fit that as well.

Another candidate:
Europe 2007: Castrol-S (Hamilton*, Button, Sutil, Rosberg, Speed, Liuzzi and Davidson*)
You also forgot to mention Webber* for Brazil 2003

* Didn't retire as a result of their excursion

Canada's Wall of Champions (1999)- Villeneuve, Zonta, Hill and Schumacher at least, probably others as well.

Eau Rouge - for Zonta and Villeneuve in the BARs.
Whatever this corner is - 1975

watka wrote:Whatever this corner is - 1975

Looks like Stowe to me.

kostas22 wrote:

watka wrote:Whatever this corner is - 1975

Looks like Stowe to me.

Woodcote, I think.

Possibly not Woodcote...that was one of the years they had the Chicane. Also not "built up" enough (stands pits etc).
Mainly Stowe; if I remember rightly, it was bucketing at the far side of the circuit whereas the pits straight was relatively dry. There is one shot from Club I think looking back toward Stowe with the the Stowe Grandstand obscured by rain. My memory of the race, however, is that cars were falling off more or less everywhere.

Its Club corner, you can see Abbey in the background, well, those who remember abbey without it being a chicane.