Massa Hit / Will Not Race In Hungary

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 25 Jul 2009, 13:05

I have seen the reply of the massa accident already 3/4 times, and it looks quite obvious that he was hit by something thrown from the stands.
I am utterly shocked. I hope someone gets arrested and charged for attempted murder.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 25 Jul 2009, 13:21

Slow down and think for a minute. Speculation is that it was a spring dropped by Barrichello. A can is impossible because there are no grandstands there. If it is a can, someone has a hell of a good throwing arm.

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 25 Jul 2009, 13:26

If a fan threw a can like that he'd be the Hungarian shot put champion. Looks like a suspension part from Rubens' car hit him, but he's alright by what the BBC are saying which is a relief.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 25 Jul 2009, 13:28

yes, I agree that it's possibly a spring. I was just too enraged to post properly (BTW, first post here! g'day everybody!).

unfortunately, morons throwing stuff on tracks do exist, so I jumped to the easy conclusion.

Enrique Bernoldi · Post by **Enrique Bernoldi** » 25 Jul 2009, 13:34

Glad he's OK. Saw the replay of the onboard footage and looks like he took an almighty clunk to the head

.

Many Blue Flags · Post by **Many Blue Flags** » 25 Jul 2009, 13:37

Enrique Bernoldi · Post by **Enrique Bernoldi** » 25 Jul 2009, 13:43

Many Blue Flags wrote:

Excellent picture, definately looks like a spring.

Snoozey2 · Post by **Snoozey2** » 25 Jul 2009, 13:44

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 25 Jul 2009, 13:53

If it did come off Barrichello's car, how far was the Brawn up the road? You can't see another car in front from Felipe's on-board. Amazing how it was still bouncing, with enough air underneath to hit Felipe in the head. Mind you, if it was a spring ... plus it would have been going downhill back down the track.

Yeah, after the events of the past week I was fearing the worst, but thankfully Felipe seems to be (relatively) OK.

Reminds me of the camera coming off Berger's Ferrari at Monza in 1995 and hitting team-mate Alesi's car behind, destroying its suspension.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 25 Jul 2009, 14:03

On German TV they zoomed in on the spring coming off Rubinho's car. It looked identical to the object that hit Felipe. Case closed.

Holy crap, they have pictures of the aftermath here:
http://www.rtl.de/sport/formel-1/formel1_96718.php?media=galerie2&set_id=23452

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 25 Jul 2009, 14:13

Oh my goodness ... looks like Massa's visor has been unhinged on the left by the impact and he's got an injured left eye. Scary. Not good at all.

alvaro3d · Post by **alvaro3d** » 25 Jul 2009, 14:20

I hope Massa get well was quite a hit he was K.O. instantly, telemetry shows full brake and throttle

Could Brawn get punished by this if get proven that is a part of Rubens car?

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 25 Jul 2009, 14:22

here you can see Massa's condition after the crash (warning: it is quite a disturbing image)

http://www.f1csatorna.hu/webimages/2009/07/massa.jpg

he was extremely lucky it seems, a few centimetres away and he was in big trouble.

dragonsteincole · Post by **dragonsteincole** » 25 Jul 2009, 14:40

A larger image, not for gross-out but to show the extent of the damage and also how lucky he was:

http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/urheilu/formulakuvat/kilpailut/2009/755343.jpg

Is there any news on the third driver being put into his car, or Kimi being the sole car for Ferrari tomorrow, because I will be amazed and possibly appauled if they let Massa drive.

alvaro3d wrote:Could Brawn get punished by this if get proven that is a part of Rubens car?

I really doubt that anyone could be seen at fault for that incident.

Edit: Linked instead of shown, sorry.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 25 Jul 2009, 14:44

I read on an italian website that Domenicali denied that Felipe will be racing tomorrow.

According to the same report, he's under sedatives and the wounds on the left eye were caused by parts of the shattered helmet rather than the spring itself.

beau99 · Post by **beau99** » 25 Jul 2009, 14:44

^ Kimi will almost certainly be the only Ferrari driver in the race.

Many Blue Flags · Post by **Many Blue Flags** » 25 Jul 2009, 15:27

beau99 wrote:^ Kimi will almost certainly be the only Ferrari driver in the race.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 1847.shtml

Confirmed. Also, given the third-car rules saying it will have to be rebuilt, I doubt there'll be time to run Badoer.

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 25 Jul 2009, 15:57

Felipe Massa will miss tomorrow's Hungarian Grand Prix after his accident during qualifying for the Hungarian Grand Prix.

Massa was hit by debris - believed to be a spring from another car- flying from the track in the dying moments of Q2.

The Brazilian appeared to lose consciousness as his car careered into the tyre wall at high speed. Massa was first taken to the medical centre and then airlifted to a Budapest hospital, where he was stable and conscious.

Pictures taken after the accident showed that Massa's helmet had been seriously damaged by the hit and that he was even bleeding.

From: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77273

Hopefully, he will recover soon. Thankfully 4 week break after Hungary.

VIDEO- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zhdm6ykEEk
Watch before FOM removes it.

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 25 Jul 2009, 16:06

My God. He's lucky to be alive.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 25 Jul 2009, 16:07

confirmation of skull damage for Massa

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77276

"Following a complete medical examination it emerged that he had suffered a cut on his forehead, a bone damage of his skull and a brain concussion. These conditions need to be operated on after which he will remain under observation in intensive care."

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 25 Jul 2009, 17:41

Terrifying. Notice how he loses conciousness on the impact: he slams the brakes AND the throttle at the same time.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:04

Christ.

The look in his open eye says it all. You have to wonder will he make the next race.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:08

Paul Hayes in the Hungarian GP Discussion thread wrote:I don't wish to alarm anybody unduly, but AP are now reporting Massa's condition to be life threatening.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... wD99LLKR80

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

+1.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:14

This is on Fox Sports web site:

"BUDAPEST, Hungary (AP) - Officials say Felipe Massa is in "satisfactory condition" after emergency surgery on a "life-threatening" skull injury the Ferrari driver sustained in a violent crash in Hungarian Grand Prix qualifying.

Felipe Massa is taken off on a stretcher after Saturday's crash. (Gero Breloer / Associated Press)

The department of defense said on Saturday that Massa would be kept in intensive care overnight at AEK military hospital following the successful operation.

"He is being cared to in intensive care and now he is in stable, satisfactory condition," the defense ministry said in a statement.

The 28-year-old Massa also suffered a concussion, but was conscious and in stable condition when he was airlifted to the hospital, Ferrari said.

Massa lost control and crashed into tire barriers when his helmet was hit by a car part on the track."

The way I read that is that the injury was life threatening without surgery - fingers crossed.

Chilled Phill · Post by **Chilled Phill** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:18

Really is a bit creepy as well. Has the marks of the Senna crash in Imola (a suspension piece hitting the visor). I really hope he gets better, the loss of Henry Surtees last week was enough for me, I only met the bloke last year as well.

That image of Massa is quite haunting as well, right up there with Jansen van Vuuren's death although his death was far more horrific...

I think I speak for everybody here when I say our thoughts are with Felipe tonight. :cry:

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:20

In the photo, is he conscious? Or is his eye just open for some reason other than him consciously opening it.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:25

shinji wrote:In the photo, is he conscious? Or is his eye just open for some reason other than him consciously opening it.

I was wondering the same. Probably he isn't conscious in that picture.

Chilled Phill · Post by **Chilled Phill** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:27

Agreed.

I really doubt he was concious in the photo.

He was unconscious trackside although the fact that somebody is carrying him in an unconscious state is rather perplexing.

EDIT: Second look, sorry I overlooked the trolley with the neck brace on it, apologies. However, if somebody has suffered a head injury, you should be doing your upmost to make sure the neck doesn't move (or as little as possible) - especially if you're strapping somebody into a neckbrace.)

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:28

muttley wrote:
shinji wrote:In the photo, is he conscious? Or is his eye just open for some reason other than him consciously opening it.

I was wondering the same. Probably he isn't conscious in that picture.

It reminds me of a picture of Hakkinen shortly after his crash at Adelaide in the mid 90s - there was a really strange picture of him with both eyes open but obviously unconcious.

I know this is probably not the time/place for moaning, but this is in context. The BBC really do have to pull up Eddie Jordan over his 'just a bang on the chin, from a 'reliable' source' comments. The bloke really is a prize arse, and those comments have really proved it.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:31

Chilled Phill wrote:Agreed.
He was unconscious trackside although the fact that somebody is carrying him in an unconscious state is rather perplexing.

I'm guessing from his body position that he was still in his seat at that point, with the HANS device still attached. That is designed to keep his head and neck stable. They have to get the driver out of the car somehow and that is the safest way.

Chilled Phill · Post by **Chilled Phill** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:33

noisebox wrote:
Chilled Phill wrote:Agreed.
He was unconscious trackside although the fact that somebody is carrying him in an unconscious state is rather perplexing.

I'm guessing from his body position that he was still in his seat at that point, with the HANS device still attached. That is designed to keep his head and neck stable. They have to get the driver out of the car somehow and that is the safest way.

Ah.

That thought passed me by as well. Although, in the position he's in, I don't think it would keep his neck from travelling forwards and backwards, though. But I've never seen a HANS device up close to actually know it's proper workings.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:39

I wish they came out really often and honestly and candidly explained his condition. It was the same with Henry Surtees - just look through that thread and you can see how the story was pieced together from Twitter and other random sources. With the internet, this is inevitable, so regular updates would be a good move and would stop fans worrying and posting ranting comments like this. I know there are reasons for not doing this, but it's just annoying how he weant from having a 'positive outcome to surgery' to being in a 'life threatening condition' and is now 'satisfactory'.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:41

Horrible, quite horrible. I'm hoping for no more bad accidents in the race tomorrow, it's as if we're suddenly being reminded how dangerous the sport is week after week. I dread to think what would have happened had this happened at a faster circuit than the Hungaroring.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:43

Sorry for the deluge of posts - but this is hopefully good news - just read on another forum that James Allen is twittering that things are not as bleak as Sky News are saying:

"According to the James Allen twitter thingy ' ignore reports on Sky/AP that Massa is in life threatening condition. He's stable after an op and will be okay. Long recuperation though'"

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:44

http://twitter.com/jamesallenonf1

Having said what I said in my last post, I know I'm renegading, but James Allen is more trustworthy than the people who were 'reporting' on Henry Surtees. I'm going to believe him and his good news.

Chilled Phill · Post by **Chilled Phill** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:45

I know what you mean Shinji.

Twitter and the likes aren't the most reliable of sources, speaking from a Wikipedian's point of view. But that's not the point, I know what you mean about Felipe's updates - I'm guessing tonight will be a slow and agonising ones for his family and fans.

EDIT: Good to here, noisebox. Altough, tbh, I've never trusted Sky News with anything motorsport anyway. Especially after last week where all Henry Surtees got was a quick "Oh yeah, and some 18 year old kid has died racing today". Wasn't very happy.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:46

shinji wrote:I wish they came out really often and honestly and candidly explained his condition. It was the same with Henry Surtees - just look through that thread and you can see how the story was pieced together from Twitter and other random sources. With the internet, this is inevitable, so regular updates would be a good move and would stop fans worrying and posting ranting comments like this. I know there are reasons for not doing this, but it's just annoying how he weant from having a 'positive outcome to surgery' to being in a 'life threatening condition' and is now 'satisfactory'.

Stupidity is a virus, and the Internet is an effective vector of spread.

Good news, noisebox. I hope someone close to the situation really makes some sense of this. Of course, I WANT that to be true. I am sure if his situation was as threatening as AP mentioned, perhaps Massa's website would mention it.

Pedro_Diniz · Post by **Pedro_Diniz** » 25 Jul 2009, 20:57

Oh my. That picture is horrible. I really hope Felipe is ok and recovers fully.
The Sky News report of the accident was quite horrifying, I hope it's not as bad as they've made it out to be.

Excuse the tangent, but shouldn't an F1 driver's helmet be able to withstand an impact such as this without collapsing??

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 25 Jul 2009, 21:01

This may sound callous, but "Racing driver in life-threatening condition" is a story more people will read than "Massa in stable condition". That doesn't reflect well on society, but I think its true. This is the worst crash I've seen and I've watched every race since 2001, only when I saw Ralf at Indy, Sato in Austrua and Kubica in Montreal have I felt as bad as I did today. Forget racing for now, lets hope he makes a full recovery.

Chilled Phill · Post by **Chilled Phill** » 25 Jul 2009, 21:02

Pedro_Diniz wrote:Oh my. That picture is horrible. I really hope Felipe is ok and recovers fully.
The Sky News report of the accident was quite horrifying, I hope it's not as bad as they've made it out to be.

Excuse the tangent, but shouldn't an F1 driver's helmet be able to withstand an impact such as this without collapsing??

They're designed to withstand an impact if you crash into something, not if something hits you directly on the head - if you understand.

Being opened-topped, I really don't think there is a chance to make the head 100% safe in this sport, although certainly things could improve.

EDIT: Well put, Debaser.