Grand Prix Rejects

Just found this online:

http://www.statesman.com/sports/formula ... 90582.html

Could this be the anti-Tilke? It's certainly the anti-Abu Dhabi; the top half looks suspiciously like Abu Dhabi, but devoid of that ugly, archaic chicane before the hairpin. It's almost as if Tilke decided to include it the way he originally wanted to design it.

Captain Hammer wrote:Just found this online:

http://www.statesman.com/sports/formula ... 90582.html

Could this be the anti-Tilke? It's certainly the anti-Abu Dhabi; the top half looks suspiciously like Abu Dhabi, but devoid of that ugly, archaic chicane before the hairpin. It's almost as if Tilke decided to include it the way he originally wanted to design it.

And it's all left-handers, which has me excited.

Um, there's 20 official turns. 11 of them are left-handers: turns 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 19 and 20.

Altough the first turn is a left-hander. That's uncommon. Although it's also anti-clockwise; a left-hand first turn on a clockwise circuit is really rare. Magny-Cours is the only one I know of.

Captain Hammer wrote:Um, there's 20 official turns. 11 of them are left-handers: turns 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 19 and 20.

Altough the first turn is a left-hander. That's uncommon. Although it's also anti-clockwise; a left-hand first turn on a clockwise circuit is really rare. Magny-Cours is the only one I know of.

And this is the second time I have to remind you about Montreal

On a more serious note that if it's meant to be a compilation track it really is. I see elements of Spa (Turn 1), Silverstone/Suzuka (2-10), Abu Dabby/Old Hockenhiem (Turns 11-15 & back straight), Istanbul (16-18) and Singapore (19-20) and while it looks like a good track on paper I can't really guage how it will be until we find out how the cars behave without double diffusers.

Marge Simpson praying?

Another news story from Yahoo (filed under the Nascar section). Some of the comments make interesting reading.

The Texans don't seem too enamoured that F1 is coming ...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=txf1austin

madmark1974 wrote:Another news story from Yahoo (filed under the Nascar section). Some of the comments make interesting reading.

The Texans don't seem too enamoured that F1 is coming ...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=txf1austin

I am reminded of thehemogoblin explaining how Austin is one of the most liberal places in the country, so the fiscal conservatives are knocking on the wrong door.

Mind you, sniff petrol anticipated this one.;)

sniffpetrol wrote:‘This here is America. These Eur-o-peens can’t jus’ walk in and build some fancy race track with “corners” and other things I don’t understand and am therefore afraid of.’

Other locals were equally outraged; ‘Building a Formula 1 track here is insensitive to those we’ve lost in NASCAR,’ said a lady carrying a large placard that read simply ‘God made ovals for a reason’.

Will any Americans please read the above with a sense of humour. Best, Carlos.

Well, to be honest, I'm not surprised that the beginning of the lap is out of character for Tilke, because he has basically copied and pasted corners from several other circuits. He says that Turns 3,4,5, and 6 are a tribue (for which, read shameless attempt to copy) to the Maggots/Becketts complex in Silverstone, and Turns 12-15 are based off the Hockenheim hairpin complex. Yes, that multiple apex corner is an attempt to replicate the feel of Turn 8 in Turkey, too.

madmark1974 wrote:Another news story from Yahoo (filed under the Nascar section). Some of the comments make interesting reading.

The Texans don't seem too enamoured that F1 is coming ...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=txf1austin

Why would they? The local government is said to be giving the organisers a $25 million subsidy per annum to hold the race, and with Bernie rumoured to be charing the organisers $25 million, with a 10% increase in the fee each year, the tickets are going to be pretty expensive, I'll bet.

madmark1974 wrote:Some of the comments make interesting reading.

Only in the same way that reading comments on YouTube are interesting.

coops wrote:

madmark1974 wrote:Some of the comments make interesting reading.

Only in the same way that reading comments on YouTube are interesting.

Well it's americans, whatcha expect?

no offence to any american members here, but the general populace seems to consist mainly of blissfully ignorant "if it ain't american, we don't want it" retards.

Do we really want a "Tribute" track. I looked at the layout before I read the article and immediately noticed the similarities to other circuits which is a little disappointing. Surely a track should have its own identity?

Tealy wrote:Do we really want a "Tribute" track. I looked at the layout before I read the article and immediately noticed the similarities to other circuits which is a little disappointing. Surely a track should have its own identity?

Aye. and besides, if you want to do a tribute-track, why not make it out of something more epic. A bit like... This:

I'm actually excited by it. If the track has its own character and identity, we shouldn't be too worried about the corner's similarities to other circuits. If it produces great races then it will become a great circuit in its own right, something the likes of Valencia and Gash Marina have no chance of doing.

jackanderton wrote:I'm actually excited by it. If the track has its own character and identity,

No it doesn't, It looks like Marge Simpson Praying!

ADx_Wales wrote:

jackanderton wrote:I'm actually excited by it. If the track has its own character and identity,

No it doesn't, It looks like Marge Simpson Praying!

... what has been seen cannot be unseen...

I almost always reserve my judgement until I see what they've decided to do with the Z-axis...
Being a former sim track designer I know how much the undulations can make or break a track.

TimmyB wrote::?:

I almost always reserve my judgement until I see what they've decided to do with the Z-axis...
Being a former sim track designer I know how much the undulations can make or break a track.

Good point. This proposed layout on a completely flat area wouldn't be anywhere near as good as it could potentially be.

Actually, Faustas, the circuit will have 133ft. of elevation. It will have the third-greatest elevation of any circuit on the calendar after Spa and Suzuka.

Tealy wrote:Surely a track should have its own identity?

It will. Austin will be compeltely different to the circuits it is paying homage to because of what comes before and after those corners. The optimal car setup for Austin will be totally different to Silverstone, Suzuka, Hockenheim and Istanbul.

Captain Hammer wrote:Actually, Faustas, the circuit will have 133ft. of elevation. It will have the third-greatest elevation of any circuit on the calendar after Spa and Suzuka.

Tealy wrote:Surely a track should have its own identity?

It will. Austin will be compeltely different to the circuits it is paying homage to because of what comes before and after those corners. The optimal car setup for Austin will be totally different to Silverstone, Suzuka, Hockenheim and Istanbul.

Actually, at first glance, without more information and from my experience, I'd say that the set-up for this place would probably be very much like Montreal.

And that setup means cars will behave differently in the Silverstone section, the Hockenheim section, the anti-Abu Dhabi sequence and the Istanbul section compared to the way they would behave on those tracks.

Captain Hammer wrote: Austin will be compeltely different to the circuits it is paying homage to because of what comes before and after those corners.

I dont buy all this 'paying homage to european circuits' or whatever it said in the link. What does that even mean? Generic Driver approaching a corner thinking "Aaah, Spa-Francorchamps" or "Oh, happy times back in old Suzuka".

No, it means drawing on existing circuits for inspiration in creating a challenging circuit for drivers.

I think. That may be the booze speaking. I am a little drunk right now.

Captain Hammer wrote:That may be the booze speaking. I am a little drunk right now.

You are officially now my favourite member of the forum.

Still sounds daft. Or an attempt at convincing the F1 populace that the track will be 'one of ours'. As if innovation is something to be scared of (perhaps it is when its in the hands of Herman Tilke).

coops wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote: Austin will be compeltely different to the circuits it is paying homage to because of what comes before and after those corners.

I dont buy all this 'paying homage to european circuits' or whatever it said in the link. What does that even mean? Generic Driver approaching a corner thinking "Aaah, Spa-Francorchamps" or "Oh, happy times back in old Suzuka".

Why not go the whole hog and put nationalised seating in? British fans could sit in the Silverstone section, Turks (well both Turkish F1 fans) could sit in the Instanbul bit, and the Americans could, of course, sit at any left-handers so it feels more like Nascar ...

Adam Cooper has just released an additional image showing how the elevation of the track will vary from one end of the circuit to another. There may be approximately 40m (133ft) of elevation change around the circuit, but it seems that most of that elevation change will be concentrated at the first corner - the rest of the track is fairly flat.

Again, I would advise some caution when viewing this image, as at the moment, it is unclear what the scaling of the elevation change is on that diagram - I suspect that it has been considerably over exaggerated (remember the proposed Indian GP, where the elevation was scaled up by a factor of five for the illustrations)?
Full article here for those interested in reading more about the circuit. http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/09/01/excl ... tin-track/

The first corner does seem to be the main 'difference to the norm' on this layout. Can't think of many regular tracks with a rise to the first turn, except for the A-1 Ring, and maybe Sears Point ...

Just merged Nin13's thread. Carry on.

madmark1974 wrote:... Turks (well both Turkish F1 fans) ...

Might well make them the largest group of visitors for the US Grand Prix.

Well then... ask and you shall receive!

I like the look of these undulations, and yes, they are probably exaggerated by 5x.

Now the last 2 corners remind me of the beginning of the last sector at Interlagos.

I agree that the first corner should be interesting but feel like it would be a much better circuit without the Hockenheim section, it'll totally ruin the flow in the same way the last sector of Fuji now does.

All opinions of course.

coops wrote:You are officially now my favourite member of the forum.

Notice how my spelling and grammar improve markedly with four Johnnie Waler Red Lable and colas in me?

TimmyB wrote:I like the look of these undulations, and yes, they are probably exaggerated by 5x.

But it's not listed on the Austin image. According to the organisers in India, the elevation through the first turns is 14m. According to Tavo Hellmund, the elevation at Austin is 133ft., which translates as 40m. So with the first turn at Austin being three times greater than in Greater Nodia, it's entirely possible that the three-dimensional image of Austin is actually accurate.

Captain Hammer wrote:

coops wrote:You are officially now my favourite member of the forum.

Notice how my spelling and grammar improve markedly with four Johnnie Waler Red Lable and colas in me?

Totally.

I'm sober now.

Dont stand for it.

ADx_Wales wrote:

jackanderton wrote:I'm actually excited by it. If the track has its own character and identity,

No it doesn't, It looks like Marge Simpson Praying!

Can't think of another circuit that looks like Marge Simpson praying.

DonTirri wrote:

coops wrote:

madmark1974 wrote:Some of the comments make interesting reading.

Only in the same way that reading comments on YouTube are interesting.

Well it's americans, whatcha expect?

no offence to any american members here, but the general populace seems to consist mainly of blissfully ignorant "if it ain't american, we don't want it" retards.

No offence taken. However, I just read the comments and I didn't find anything too objectionable. To me there were 3 groups represented:

1. Those in favor of it. My thought is these folks were F1 fans.

2. Those questioning the financing or the ethics of financing something like this with taxpayer money. A legitimate worry in my book.

3. Trolls who hate anything "unamerican". These people are stupid and should be ignored. I will say that I don't think they are indicative of the general population though.


The thing is that groups 2 and 3 would likely vote the same way on the issue (were it to come to a vote), but for very different reasons. Though there may be crossover. In fact I am a crossover of 1 and 2. And not because I don't believe in taxes. I just worry about funding private ventures with public money when so many basic services are without funding. Not that I would never fund something like this with public money, there just needs to be more information given as to the risks and benefits to make a proper decision.

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:However, I just read the comments and I didn't find anything too objectionable. To me there were 3 groups represented:

1. Those in favor of it. My thought is these folks were F1 fans.

2. Those questioning the financing or the ethics of financing something like this with taxpayer money. A legitimate worry in my book.

3. Trolls who hate anything "unamerican". These people are stupid and should be ignored. I will say that I don't think they are indicative of the general population though.


The thing is that groups 2 and 3 would likely vote the same way on the issue (were it to come to a vote), but for very different reasons. Though there may be crossover. In fact I am a crossover of 1 and 2. And not because I don't believe in taxes. I just worry about funding private ventures with public money when so many basic services are without funding. Not that I would never fund something like this with public money, there just needs to be more information given as to the risks and benefits to make a proper decision.

Brilliantly put, thanks for that. Let me add many of those 3 groups are present elsewhere, not just in the US. Especially group 2 - although they don't hang around F1Rejects (or other F1 fora), and tend to be discounted by us fans.

Breaking news for all of us: group 2 is probably the majority of the population...

DonTirri wrote:

Tealy wrote:Do we really want a "Tribute" track. I looked at the layout before I read the article and immediately noticed the similarities to other circuits which is a little disappointing. Surely a track should have its own identity?

Aye. and besides, if you want to do a tribute-track, why not make it out of something more epic. A bit like... This:

I recognise all those corners, except turn 15, presumably some Tilkedrome?

IdeFan wrote:
I recognise all those corners, except turn 15, presumably some Tilkedrome?

Last Turn at Sepang