Grand Prix Rejects

Well, with Singapore fast approaching (whether we like it or not), inevitably I've decided to open a thread about it (although even my heart is not that much in it).

So, asides from the news that Heidfeld will be back in the cockpit in Singapore, and that Gutierrez has been signed up as Sauber's reserve driver for 2011, there are some small revisions planned for the circuit itself.
After complaints about bumps in previous years, the tarmac between Turns 3 to 7 and 14 to 19 has been resurfaced, and the kerbs in Turn 10 have been re-profiled so the turn is not as sharp as it once was. Good news for Mclaren, it seems, because their car is very stiffly sprung this year (it is said to be because their diffuser is quite sensitive to ride heigh changes and changes in rake, causing it to stall), but perhaps less so for Red Bull (who would have preferred a bumpy track, which would hinder Mclaren).
In addition, to try and liven up the look of the circuit, the walls and run off areas have been decorated in vivid colours to brighten up the circuit. Reputedly, the walls will be blue, green and yellow, marking the different zones within the Marina Bay Street Circuit, whilst the run off areas will be red, white and yellow.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86845 and http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Twea ... rcuit.html

However, it seems that the organisers have resisted calls for the circuit layout to be modified further, or even reduced - there had been a serious suggestion to link Turn 8 to Turn 14, cutting off the far loop and reducing the lap times drastically, but it seems that they have been rejected out of hand.

mario wrote:After complaints about bumps in previous years, the tarmac between Turns 3 to 7 and 14 to 19 has been resurfaced

The best part of Singapore in my opinion is the run from turn 5 through 6 and into the incredibly bumpy 7. This has me worried that the corners will no longer be as fun to watch.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/5015

Just putting it out there.

Pedro_Diniz wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/5015

Just putting it out there.

So possibly the first wet night-time race? I read in a preview last year that there were worries about glare from the floodlights if the track surface was wet. Does anybody know if this has been resolved/ever would have been a problem?

Pedro_Diniz wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/5015

Just putting it out there.

It's Tuesday.

It might be wet, it might not be wet. We'll see. I'm not getting my hopes up anyway.

Enoch better bring a raincoat though.

But the wheater forecast from the norwegian "yr" says rain until October! http://www.yr.no/sted/Singapore/Annet/Marina_Bay/langtidsvarsel.html

dr-baker wrote:

Pedro_Diniz wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/5015

Just putting it out there.

So possibly the first wet night-time race? I read in a preview last year that there were worries about glare from the floodlights if the track surface was wet. Does anybody know if this has been resolved/ever would have been a problem?

I wouldn't get your hopes up just yet, because although the predictions are for rain during the day, the nights are forecast to be clear, according to the BBC. So, assuming that the temperatures are still high, and factoring in the urban heat island effect, the circuit should dry out fairly quickly.

However, because there have been no wet races, I don't think that anybody actually knows whether there would be any problem with glare or reflections from the lights and track or not. Given that the practise sessions are relatively held in the late afternoon and early evening, though, we might see some rain then, which might help clear the issue up.

dr-baker wrote: So possibly the first WET NIGHT-time race?

This could be awesome.

The first (or was it the second?) night race for the MotoGP race in Qatar turned out to be wet, and the race was cancelled as the riders simply couldn't see where to go thanks to the shiny track surface and the strong reflections it produced. Obviously we're jumping the gun a little with the weather predictions, but it's still going to be an issue if the track is wet.

The weather forecasts for Singapore will almost always say it will rain - because there is always the likelihood of a brief shower or thunderstorm during the day.

I wouldn't take that to mean a prolonged shower, though.

As least, I'm hoping not!

eytl wrote:The weather forecasts for Singapore will almost always say it will rain - because there is always the likelihood of a brief shower or thunderstorm during the day.

I wouldn't take that to mean a prolonged shower, though.

As least, I'm hoping not!

Better pack a raincoat and a pair of wellingtons, just in case...

Again, I'm using the norwegian yr.no, and for the weekend it says steady rain all day and night all days. http://www.yr.no/sted/Singapore/Annet/Marina_Bay/helg.html

Think about it: Le Mans, night time, raining, open-cockpit LMP cars and no problem at all. I think it will be a go no matter what, but I wouldn't be surprised to see red flag at some point.

Because of work, I won't be able to see this one all of the way through live. While I don't think I'll miss much, I hate being informed of the winner of a Grand Prix before I see the end, and thanks to being in university the following day, I won't get to see the end until the Monday evening.

Damn it.

Meh. I'll be missing this GP due to being stuck at my GF's mothers wedding. Luckily it's just Singapore and not Suzuka for example.

The weather forecasts reminds me of this story dad told me about one of the times he was in Singapore. He told me he was standing on one side of a street which was bone dry while there was a monsoon on the other side of the road.

But that really isn't related to this now is it?

tkcom wrote:Think about it: Le Mans, night time, raining, open-cockpit LMP cars and no problem at all. I think it will be a go no matter what, but I wouldn't be surprised to see red flag at some point.

But that track does not have floodlights all the way round, causing potential glare problems...

Wizzie wrote:The weather forecasts reminds me of this story dad told me about one of the times he was in Singapore. He told me he was standing on one side of a street which was bone dry while there was a monsoon on the other side of the road.

But that really isn't related to this now is it?

Might berelated, particularly if half the track is wet, and the other half dry, as has happened before at Spa and on the old Hockenheim (2000 and Barrichello's 1st victory comes to mind).

And to move this conversation on from the Brits' favourite subject (namely the weather), Danny Sullivan is to be a second-time driver steward.

Continuing the theme of not talking about the weather, Mclaren seem to be more bullish about this weekend, as they believe that they have now sorted out the problems that they have had at higher downforce circuits like the Hungaroring and Monaco. As part of this weekend's updates, they are intending on bringing a new front wing and a few other unspecified updates to increase their downforce. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86862
However, Mclaren have also revealed that the Singapore update package is probably going to be the last major update for this season, and for the remaining races, Mclaren are going to put their emphasis on fine tuning this years car (with not enough time and resources to work on the 2011 and 2010 cars at full speed at the same time). http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86863

It also seems that one of the few drivers out there hoping for a chaotic race is Lucas Di Grassi, who hopes that Virgin Racing can capitalise on the misfortunes of other to finish in at least 12th place (which would see them move ahead of HRT and Lotus Racing in the constructors championship). At the very least, with a large update package planned for Singapore, it seems that Virgin Racing expect that they will be able to get ahead of the other new teams, and stay there. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86865

Today's Autosport is very hopeful of Renault's chances. Renault themselves seem quite looking forward to it as well. Would personally love to see them succeed big time.

I think Sutil will be 3th =)

CarlosFerreira wrote:Today's Autosport is very hopeful of Renault's chances. Renault themselves seem quite looking forward to it as well. Would personally love to see them succeed big time.

Given their performance in Monaco and Valencia, I can see why they might be bullish - they have good traction and braking stability, and have a few upgrades scheduled for this race - including, inevitably, another front wing.

Speaking of front wings, here is the new Mclaren front wing, and the difference is quite big:


The rear wing also has a few unusual modifications, including a number of slits in the wing itself:


At the moment, the purpose of the slots is unclear - I think that we'll have to wait for a few more images, and hopefully some feedback from the Radio 5 live team, about what is going on there.

Also, slight tweak to the Red Bull rear wing, with a small slot introduced just above where the fin meets the wing:



The reason the slot is there is because the regulations leave a small gap - 15cm, I believe - where there are fewer restrictions on what you can put there. That is why, for example, some teams put a small wing there, like Virgin racing have done here:

[Incidentally, I think that it was Toyota who discovered that loophole]

[Courtesy of Sutton Images and Formula1.com]
If I can find any other pictures of other cars, such as the R30 or the F10, I'll try to add them here.

The Mclaren looks wicked, they really have pushed the boat out on this one.

A piece of speculation I want to add is that, perhaps, McLaren didn't produce a Monza package because they were working away at the last few races. We'll have to see of it's worked out.

Heavy showers.

They're saying it's going to be a problem with the spray and the floodlights, but surely they wouldn't have given the go-ahead to an event that couldn't theoretically be held safely (within the parameters of what we all understand to be 'safe' in a rain-affected motor-race) in wet conditions.

Mclaren watched in secret to the Minardi and Pacific from 1995 ?
They did also had that wing in a wing concept.

CarlosFerreira wrote:The Mclaren looks wicked, they really have pushed the boat out on this one.

A piece of speculation I want to add is that, perhaps, McLaren didn't produce a Monza package because they were working away at the last few races. We'll have to see of it's worked out.

Depends what you mean by a Monza spec package - Hamilton had a conventional Monza package, whilst Button used the package he used from Spa (which would have been a medium downforce package, in effect - but compared to traditional Monza packages, it was quite a high downforce package).

jackanderton wrote:Heavy showers.

They're saying it's going to be a problem with the spray and the floodlights, but surely they wouldn't have given the go-ahead to an event that couldn't theoretically be held safely (within the parameters of what we all understand to be 'safe' in a rain-affected motor-race) in wet conditions.

And back to the weather - it seems that the drivers are somewhat anxious about what might happen if it does rain, and the current forecasts suggest that the practise sessions may be rain affected (probably just FP1), although qualifying and the race itself are expected to remain dry.

However, Webber doesn't seem to be too worried, as he expects that the spray should not pose much of a problem, whilst Rubens believes that it will only be a problem if the rain is so heavy that there is a build up of rain on the visor. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86876
So, for the moment, it seems that even if it does rain, it might not cause a red flag, although the slippery conditions could well benefit smaller teams hoping to benefit if somebody else crashes out.

mario wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:The Mclaren looks wicked, they really have pushed the boat out on this one.

A piece of speculation I want to add is that, perhaps, McLaren didn't produce a Monza package because they were working away at the last few races. We'll have to see of it's worked out.

Depends what you mean by a Monza spec package - Hamilton had a conventional Monza package, whilst Button used the package he used from Spa (which would have been a medium downforce package, in effect - but compared to traditional Monza packages, it was quite a high downforce package).

Ferrari had a proper blown wing, Monza spec. McLaren made do with either a normal Monza wing or a Spa-spec blow device. They did not develop a Monza-type F-duct, as Ferrari and Red Bull did, and simply ran a compromised set-up.

Just need to develop a 'prevent Hamilton crashing into people' device on the car next.

CarlosFerreira wrote:

mario wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:The Mclaren looks wicked, they really have pushed the boat out on this one.

A piece of speculation I want to add is that, perhaps, McLaren didn't produce a Monza package because they were working away at the last few races. We'll have to see of it's worked out.

Depends what you mean by a Monza spec package - Hamilton had a conventional Monza package, whilst Button used the package he used from Spa (which would have been a medium downforce package, in effect - but compared to traditional Monza packages, it was quite a high downforce package).

Ferrari had a proper blown wing, Monza spec. McLaren made do with either a normal Monza wing or a Spa-spec blow device. They did not develop a Monza-type F-duct, as Ferrari and Red Bull did, and simply ran a compromised set-up.[/quote]
Some have also suggested that it was in part because of the way that Mclaren blew their rear wing which meant that they could not fit anything smaller (it appears that Mclaren is blowing a different element to other teams).

In addition, a slight correction on my earlier post - it transpires that the rear wing Mclaren are using are in fact derivatives of an earlier wing used at Monaco (including those slits in the rear wing), as can be seen from this overhead shot


For those who want a higher resolution image, here is the image link http://www.flickr.com/photos/saabay/462 ... otostream/

Sorry for those who are on a slow connection, but I'll try to keep the number of images down.
Anyway, it looks as if Mclaren have decided to simplify their diffuser, having removed a couple of the straikes from the inner tunnels of the diffuser.
New Diffuser



Old Diffuser


Meanwhile, we have a shot of the F10's floor just before it is due to be mounted to the car, which also gives an idea of how large the exit holes of the diffuser are


And the car with the floor now attached:

It also turns out that the diffuser has had a few tweaks carried over to it from Spa (namely, the lower horizontal element has been changed from a straight to a curved profile).

Also, as a final little spot, here is a shot of the Force India F-duct essentially out in the open

jackanderton wrote:Just need to develop a 'prevent Hamilton crashing into people' device on the car next.

Maybe Red Bull can make a device like that for Vettel as well, especially because they probably don't give a damn about Webber.

Great shots Mario, in particular seeing the Ferrari floor and Force F-Duct unsheathed was fascinating. Upgrades, showers, the points battle; looks like its shaping up to be an interesting weekend.

Jaime ALMOST wrote it off under the freeway. Who else is watching practice 1?

F1000X wrote:Jaime ALMOST wrote it off under the freeway. Who else is watching practice 1?

Me. Spanish commentators ranting about de la Rosa's sacking, and Senna having an off, not much more so far.

I'm watching the American feed with no commentary, just trying to imagine James Allen and Legard in my head.

WOW BRUNO, COULD YOU GO ANY FURTHER OVER THE RUMBLE STRIPS.

Massa is short shifting on his engine, Ferrari must really be nursing these eighth powerplants.

I think Michael is gonna find a wall before this weekend is over.

What a surprise, a nervous Virgin.

WOW. If it stays wet all weekend, this is going to be a very interesting race.

Curse you all and your TV coverage, I'm (barely) paying attention to F1.com's live timing thingy.
I know, it's stupid and pointless, but still...

F1000X wrote:WOW BRUNO, COULD YOU GO ANY FURTHER OVER THE RUMBLE STRIPS.

In my head it was Chandler Bing saying that and therefore utterly hilarious.

coops wrote:

F1000X wrote:WOW BRUNO, COULD YOU GO ANY FURTHER OVER THE RUMBLE STRIPS.

In my head it was Chandler Bing saying that and therefore utterly hilarious.

Who is Chandler Bing?

Time to fix the ride height on Toro Rosso. Alguersari's ass must be taking a beating.

F1000X wrote:

coops wrote:

F1000X wrote:WOW BRUNO, COULD YOU GO ANY FURTHER OVER THE RUMBLE STRIPS.

In my head it was Chandler Bing saying that and therefore utterly hilarious.

Who is Chandler Bing?

Are you sure you're from America?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz2vodG6 ... re=related

coops wrote:Are you sure you're from America?

I never watched Friends. Ever.