Grand Prix Rejects

Personally don't think much of the Indy "road" coarse, I'd actually prefer it if F1 used the oval. How cool would that be for one race a year?

My ideal choice for F1 in the USA would be Laguna Seca. I know its in the arse-end of nowhere but its a cool track albeit a little short.

What circuit would you fancy?

A F-1 race in an oval was discarded in the early 90's. The designers alleged that the F-1 cars were not built to withstand such races.
I guess F-1 safety standards would be a problem for oval racing.

I would much like to see the return of F-1 to Indianapolis, but Bernie has already said that it won't happen.
Watkins Glen would be my choice, but then I doubt F-1 and IRL would want to compete in the same track. My guess it will most likely take place in some bizarre and horrendous street circuit.

rffp wrote: My guess it will most likely take place in some bizarre and horrendous street circuit.

With zero audience...

lostpin wrote:

rffp wrote: My guess it will most likely take place in some bizarre and horrendous street circuit.

With zero audience...

Is that implied support for a return to Las Vegas I infer!???

San Francisco. Nice changes of elevation. Throw in a moving chicane or two (streetcars) and put Lombard Street (pictured below) just before the pits and you have a recipe for success!

If Las Vegas is no longer suitable, they could build a circuit:
- Inside Disney World, with the track going inside Adventureland, Fantasyland and Futureland. Bernie and Max could be stuffed inside the Haunted Mansion to watch the race.
- Going up and down the Grand Canyon! Bernie and Max could follow the race on the back of some donkey and ditched afterwards in the Colorado river.

I would actually like the US GP at either Road America or Long Beach. Road America isn't being used and Long Beach has been used before. Also, the US has a lot of tracks suitable for F1, so Bernie has a lot of choices.

Laguna Seca is probably the best track in America. It's a little short at 3.5km, but not too short. I think it's hard to get to or something though.

Hasn't been an Indy/CART race since '04 either. Wonder why that is...

Infineon/Sonoma. It makes for an absolutely fantastic NASCAR race. Watkins Glen too, for the same reason.

Other than that, I don't really know. Maybe Road America or the Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course if those still exist.

thehemogoblin wrote:Infineon/Sonoma. It makes for an absolutely fantastic NASCAR race. Watkins Glen too, for the same reason.

Other than that, I don't really know. Maybe Road America or the Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course if those still exist.

Unfortunately, Watkins Glen owes Bernie money or something, so F1 won't go there until that's settled. I agree with you on Sonoma - the sports car course is rather good and I think it would make a pretty good F1 track.

Some good circuits have been thrown out there. Road America would be great but there aren't enough facilities and after Katherine Legge's hideous shunt (among others) at The Kink, I doubt F1 would want to go there until there is six kilometers of run-off there. I would say the infield at Pocono Raceway but that whole place is a dump - though Stefan Johansson would get used to the sight of deer running across the track. It would be great to see F1 cars demonstrate their stuff at Lime Rock Park with sub-50 second laps.

Long Beach would probably be the best option, in all seriousness. The only thing they would really need to do is set up garages along the pit lane, ala Monaco. Having been to Indy, the facility is superb and there are plenty hotel options within 50 km, but the circuit itself wasn't special and its even shorter now as the hairpins were removed.

Do the Americans want F1 - even with their own team next season? With memories of '05 still fresh in their minds I doubt it. Indy would be great if they sorted the crappy infield section. Isn't there some issue about the corkscrew at Laguna Seca? I recall Road America from CART races there and it seemed ok.

As everyone else says, Laguna Seca is the most exciting track, but its too short.

Sonoma is a nice track, but without many overtaking opportunities. Watkins Glen and Road America would be good choices but I can't see that happening. I'll throw another one into the ring as well: Sebring

Cleveland airport.

Kuwashima wrote:

lostpin wrote:

rffp wrote: My guess it will most likely take place in some bizarre and horrendous street circuit.

With zero audience...

Is that implied support for a return to Las Vegas I infer!???

Or Phoenix ... the place where an ostrich race attracted a bigger crowd than the Grand Prix ...

My pick would be Daytona Road. There's a few configurations that can be worked - the one I'm thinking of leaves the Start/Finish section and doesn't rejoin the oval until the back straight - and it's every bit as famous as Indianapolis.

If Daytona isn't on the table, then I'd recommend Miller Motorsports Park just outside Salt Lake City. It's a little long at seven kilometres at its full length, but there's some fantastic-looking turns in there.

Failing that, I'd suggest a return to Long Beach. The current configuration is a little short, but with a bit of imagination it could be much better.

Captain Hammer wrote:If Daytona isn't on the table, then I'd recommend Miller Motorsports Park just outside Salt Lake City. It's a little long at seven kilometres at its full length, but there's some fantastic-looking turns in there.

The problem and positive for Miller is that there's a nice mountain backdrop but there's absolutely nothing in the way of landmarks near the circuit. So for the television viewer, its a boring place but there's nothing nearby for the cars to hit. Road Atlanta would never make the cut due to its short length, sharp crests, and limited runoff room (though they've improved that recently). Sebring is too rough and too narrow out on the circuit, away from the old runways. Rovals, with the exception of Indy, are poorly designed and that's why ALMS ditched racing at Texas, Las Vegas, and Charlotte.

Cleveland would be possible if garages could be quickly rolled in to cut down on airport downtime. A big win is the location of Burke LAKEFRONT Airport, but securing enough spectators to have a financial success would be difficult at best.

The thing you'll notice with most US tracks is that they're in the middle of nowhere for the same reason that Monza only gets a few major dates a year to race - whinging residents. Elkhart Lake, Monterey, and Watkins Glen all had races on public roads initially before the public complained and forced purpose built circuits to be constructed away from the towns. Indianapolis somehow survived the test of time and urban sprawl. Daytona on the other hand was built to have somewhere to race other than the beach.

sebring could be a possibilty , however it would be really bumpy. miller motorsports park would be interesting due to odd names of the corners .

barber motorsport park could be a possibility

watkins glen might also be good except it might require some modification. it would also show how much faster f1 cars are compared to sprint cup cars , which would finally shut the stupid bloody rednecks and yanks up

Long beach feels like the least work and probably the most sustainable financially.

In a perfect world I'd say Road America, but even ignoring facilities it'd need the kind of layout tweaks that sap the soul out of most F1 circuits (T1 would be made much tighter to improve overtaking, for intance). The other problem is that by current F1 circuit fashions it's just too long at 4 miles.

So most people think Laguna Seca would be ideal then?

Where exactly is it? Just how remote is it?

Apparently it did nearly get the race in the late 80s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laguna_seca#Formula_One

JDOD wrote:So most people think Laguna Seca would be ideal then?

Actually, it would be the least-appropriate venue. It is difficult to access, lacks proper pit facilities and only has two grandstands. And while those issues could be resolved, there are bigger ones: the Corkscrew does not comply with FIA regulations on circuit safety. The drop is simply too steep; cars would literally be running with one wheel - the right front - in the air, and as soon as part of the car leaves the circuit like that, all downforce and aerodynamic grip is lost. The cars would be exceptionally difficult to control, and not a few would end in the barriers. It might be possible to take the corner at low speeds, but if there is a train of cars, it just makes things worse: the ones at the back would be at a near stand-still.

Besides, aside from the Corkscrew, Laguna Seca has nothing else. Sure, there's a hairpin and the final turn, but every other corner on the circuit is pretty much a ninety-degree right. There's no challenge to it; it's a very bland circuit.

Captain Hammer wrote:the Corkscrew does not comply with FIA regulations on circuit safety. The drop is simply too steep; cars would literally be running with one wheel - the right front - in the air, and as soon as part of the car leaves the circuit like that, all downforce and aerodynamic grip is lost. The cars would be exceptionally difficult to control, and not a few would end in the barriers. It might be possible to take the corner at low speeds, but if there is a train of cars, it just makes things worse: the ones at the back would be at a near stand-still.

Besides, aside from the Corkscrew, Laguna Seca has nothing else. Sure, there's a hairpin and the final turn, but every other corner on the circuit is pretty much a ninety-degree right. There's no challenge to it; it's a very bland circuit.

Fair enough, I had no idea that the corkscrew would actually be virtually impossible in an F1 car - What are the FIA regs regarding corners like that? The Champ Cars (I think it was them, or it could be CART, IRL or whatever) used to manage it OK.

Captain Hammer wrote:

JDOD wrote:So most people think Laguna Seca would be ideal then?

Actually, it would be the least-appropriate venue. It is difficult to access, lacks proper pit facilities and only has two grandstands. And while those issues could be resolved, there are bigger ones: the Corkscrew does not comply with FIA regulations on circuit safety. The drop is simply too steep; cars would literally be running with one wheel - the right front - in the air, and as soon as part of the car leaves the circuit like that, all downforce and aerodynamic grip is lost. The cars would be exceptionally difficult to control, and not a few would end in the barriers. It might be possible to take the corner at low speeds, but if there is a train of cars, it just makes things worse: the ones at the back would be at a near stand-still.

Besides, aside from the Corkscrew, Laguna Seca has nothing else. Sure, there's a hairpin and the final turn, but every other corner on the circuit is pretty much a ninety-degree right. There's no challenge to it; it's a very bland circuit.

Whilst I'm not familiar with the FIA regulations I'm sure F1 cars could get through the corkscrew with no big problems, the champcars used to have the right front in the air and carried on their way. Indeed I'm pretty sure a 2006 Toyota F1 car has the unofficial lap record there, so an F1 car can get round there at a fair pelt. Also I'd definitely say it was a challenge, and whilst there may be a few 90 degreeish corners, one is flat, one is banked and one is a fast uphill sweep. There's certainly no corners that are majorly similar and the dustiness makes it low on grip.

However I still agree it would be inappropriate for F1 as it's so tight that races there would make us look forward to Hungary. It's still got way more chance than any other road course of getting an F1 race though as it's at least up to MotoGP standards. Almost all US road courses aren't up to scratch facilities and safety wise. Elkhart definitely has the best layout though it's clear it would be ruined for F1. Sonoma would be terrible, it's run well but the IndyCar races there are typically atrocious and makes me wish they ran Elkhart.

I would like Long Beach back though, it's a great location, it would be appreciated and though the layout is pretty basic it least has one decent passing zone. I really wouldn't mind Indy though.

No other US American road circuit is currently up to the FIA Grade 1 safety standards aside from the Indianapolis roval track.

Laguna Seca has the track length that Bernie prefers for F1, clocking in at a lap time of around 1:10 minutes, but would require an upgrade. Plus, it is located in the lucrative Californian market.

Bernie has said repeatedly that Watkins Glen still owes him money from before they went bankrupt in the 80s. The track hasn't seen renewal since then either. The safety standards are well below par. It still is a classic track that deserves to be back, but it would have to be completely rebuilt. (I say rebuilt, not redesigned.) The Glen is owned by NASCAR who don't need a safety upgrade, so they wouldn't pay for one either.

Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin, is among the best US road circuits. The necessary safety upgrade issues apply here as well. Plus, it would be too remote a location for F1 to gain a huge additional following by US motorsports fans quickly.

The Detroit Downtown circuit is my personal favourite of the temporary tracks that F1 ran on in previous years. But Detroit is a town suffering from recession, which is a climate neither CVC nor Bernie is particularly fond of.

Long Beach has been taken over by the reigning American open wheel series after F1 abandoned it and even though it's a different series now, they still cherish it and want to keep it.

Ideally, a track in NASCAR-Land should be it - located in the same state as the shop of Team US-F1.
But wouldn't F1 be a bit too snobbish for the crowd in Charlotte?

I used to love Long Beach so I would have to go for that as my choice, though I did enjoy the Detroit races too.

I'm guessing Dallas won't get many takers, though if they go back and the circuit breaks up again it may be the only chance for a Force India win!

Pikes Peak


I know it probably won't happen. But I liked Indy. Yes the infield was not much, but the sight of the cars blasting around the banking and straight was something else. Particularly the year that team-mates were drafting each other to get good qualifying times.

And the margharita's in the grandstand were very nice

And all that history and stuff.

Well my first choice would be a temporary street circuit around the streets of Phoenix... like they did between 1989 and 1991 as it was a great circuit for those people we salute...

In 1989, Martin Brundle qualified 5th in the gutless Brabham, Alex Caffi in the BMS Scuderia Italia qualified 6th and was running as high as 2nd, Stefano Modena was 7th also in the gutless Brabham. The big result was Christian Danner in his Rial going from last on the grid to 4th and earning him a 'You lucky bastard' award, he was ahead of Johnny Herbert in the Benetton and Thierry Boutsen in the Williams. Gabriele Tarquini in the AGS was 7th and Andrea de Cesaris in the BMS Scuderia Italia was 8th.

In 1990 a Minardi would have got pole if it wasn't for that pesky Gerhard Berger in his McLaren. With Pierluigi Martini in 2nd in his Minardi, Andrea de Cesaris in 3rd in his BMS Scuderia Italia, Olivier Grouillard in 8th in his Osella and even Roberto Moreno in his Euro Brun was in 16th a place ahead of Nigel Mansell in his Ferrari.... In the race Stefano Modena in his Brabham was 5th, Pierluigi Martini just outside the points in 7th, Roberto Moreno was 13th but still a lap ahead of Maurício Gugelmin in the Leyton House.

In 1991, Emanuele Pirro and Jyrki Järvilehto in the BMS Scuderia Italia qualified in 9th and 10th, in the race Aguri Suzuki got 6th in the Larrousse coming from 21st, Nicola Larini in the Lambo was 7th and Gabriele Tarquini in the AGS was 8th and the last runner. Pierluigi Martini was 9th but had an engine failure.

Montreal!!!!!

danondorf wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

JDOD wrote:So most people think Laguna Seca would be ideal then?

Actually, it would be the least-appropriate venue. It is difficult to access, lacks proper pit facilities and only has two grandstands. And while those issues could be resolved, there are bigger ones: the Corkscrew does not comply with FIA regulations on circuit safety. The drop is simply too steep; cars would literally be running with one wheel - the right front - in the air, and as soon as part of the car leaves the circuit like that, all downforce and aerodynamic grip is lost. The cars would be exceptionally difficult to control, and not a few would end in the barriers. It might be possible to take the corner at low speeds, but if there is a train of cars, it just makes things worse: the ones at the back would be at a near stand-still.

Besides, aside from the Corkscrew, Laguna Seca has nothing else. Sure, there's a hairpin and the final turn, but every other corner on the circuit is pretty much a ninety-degree right. There's no challenge to it; it's a very bland circuit.

Whilst I'm not familiar with the FIA regulations I'm sure F1 cars could get through the corkscrew with no big problems, the champcars used to have the right front in the air and carried on their way. Indeed I'm pretty sure a 2006 Toyota F1 car has the unofficial lap record there, so an F1 car can get round there at a fair pelt. Also I'd definitely say it was a challenge, and whilst there may be a few 90 degreeish corners, one is flat, one is banked and one is a fast uphill sweep. There's certainly no corners that are majorly similar and the dustiness makes it low on grip.

However I still agree it would be inappropriate for F1 as it's so tight that races there would make us look forward to Hungary. It's still got way more chance than any other road course of getting an F1 race though as it's at least up to MotoGP standards. Almost all US road courses aren't up to scratch facilities and safety wise. Elkhart definitely has the best layout though it's clear it would be ruined for F1. Sonoma would be terrible, it's run well but the IndyCar races there are typically atrocious and makes me wish they ran Elkhart.

I would like Long Beach back though, it's a great location, it would be appreciated and though the layout is pretty basic it least has one decent passing zone. I really wouldn't mind Indy though.

While the cars can take the corkscrew, it's a question as to whether or not they can consistently take it safely.

Also, like I said, the rest of the circuit is bollocks. Deeply overrated.

The No Problem Raceway. Honestly.

Shinji, I never thought that I would hear a lounge version of Irlande Douze Points

watka wrote:Shinji, I never thought that I would hear a lounge version of Irlande Douze Points

Well there you go. Providing people with alternate versions of failed Eurovison entries, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Irlande Douze Points

For a moment I thought this may be the name of a motor racing circuit in the USA.

Ahem. I'd go for Long Beach. I remember that fondly from the early 90's computer game Indy Car Racing (where you had to activate the game by typing out a whole paragraph from the manual where prompted) as being the only circuit that was any fun. Apart from Portland.

jackanderton wrote:Ahem. I'd go for Long Beach. I remember that fondly from the early 90's computer game Indy Car Racing (where you had to activate the game by typing out a whole paragraph from the manual where prompted) as being the only circuit that was any fun. Apart from Portland.

As God's Gift to F1Rejects and God's Gift to Oregon, I 100% endorse the statement that Portland is fun.

That's how I remember. Needs a bit of Tilke-tweaking I think!

There, much better.



This circuit is now fit for Formula 1.

Not to be a giant pain in the ass or anything, but because of where the track is located, you have to go in, not out, to lengthen it.

Has to be Phoenix, I prefered the 1989/90 track layout slightly to the 1991 track layout. The 1990 race was one of the best GP's in the last 20 years (At least I think so).

The best place to hold the US GP would be in Canada and call it the Canadian GP. Circuit de Gilles Villeneuve and/or Mosport