Grand Prix Rejects

Right, no one much liked Magne Cours (well except me I suppose) so its not going back there.

Where do you lot think it should be? I think this idea of a new circuit outside Paris is bollocks. We don't need another track. We already have a great track in Paul Ricard. Singnes? current F1 cars would be amazing round there!

The obvious choice though, maxium publicity and a great circuit would be the full Circuit de la Sarthe at Le Mans. Would that be safe in F1 cars though?

Any other bright ideas?

How about the Eurotunnel?

Kidding, my nostalgic half would much like to see F-1 return to Le Castellet.

JDOD wrote:The obvious choice though, maxium publicity and a great circuit would be the full Circuit de la Sarthe at Le Mans. Would that be safe in F1 cars though?

Any other bright ideas?

It would be great, but I guess its too fast and too long.

Ross Prawn wrote:

JDOD wrote:The obvious choice though, maxium publicity and a great circuit would be the full Circuit de la Sarthe at Le Mans. Would that be safe in F1 cars though?

Any other bright ideas?

It would be great, but I guess its too fast and too long.

That depends on which layout is used. I think the Mickey-Mouse sector at the end would pretty much scupper any overtaking moves, especially as you cannot follow another car closely through Signes.

Unfortunately, Magny-Cours is probably as good as it would get. Le Mans (Bugatti Circuit) isn't special and no other tracks would be close to getting Grade 1 Licenses. Maybe it is a good idea to call Polyphany Digital. They seem to find good locations and design decent circuits for the Gran Turismo gamng series.

Have it is the Stade de France:

200 laps of torture

Um, Rouen ... or Dijon ...

Shame that Pau is too short, and Nogaro too boring ...

They should do a street circuit that runs along the border of Monaco on the weekend before the Monaco Grand Prix and call it the French GP.

Paul Ricard?

Charade.

eytl wrote:Um, Rouen ... or Dijon ...

Shame that Pau is too short, and Nogaro too boring ...

I completely forgot about Nogaro. The circuit is pretty boring as you say but if it could be widened (and the Big F word: facilities), it might be a decent track. It already has two fairly long straights connecting twisty bits which sounds like a Tilkedrome without his mid-to-high speed sweeps.

le mans would be good. rhey obviously could not have to full circuit . the bugatti circuit is to short so they would probably end up doing a longer version of it that starts at the kink at the mulsanne straight and then somehow connects back at the ford chicanes

What are the reasons for not having the full circuit at Le Mans?

Its length? I've never really seen what that's got to do with it to be honest.
Safety? Le Mans has decent run-off areas and medical facilities, just would need to be adequtely marshalled - would cost money I know.
High Speed? Since when has that been a problem? The WEC cars could get to 240MPH on the Mulsanne straight
Aside from that its one of the best known circuits on the planet, in a half decent location. It would be massive!

I think the principal draw back with Paul Ricard is its location. Its got shite connecting roads etc. But its facilities are great! Anyone know if there are now chicanes in the Mistral Straight.

Le Mans wouldn't work because there's a lot of public roads that would have to be closed. It's also nearly twice as long as the regulations dictate for maximum circuit length; Spa only just makes it, so at thirteen kilometres Le Mans is too long. No-one would want to watch a twenty-lap race.

As for Paul Ricard, there are chicanes on the Mistral, but they can be bypassed. The bigger problem is that is has officially been designated a testing venue only, and while it has unusual features - the circuit can be flooded to simulate wet conditions even in the dry - it is owned by Bernie Ecclestone, and there's no way he'll let it host a race.

Captain Hammer wrote:Le Mans wouldn't work because there's a lot of public roads that would have to be closed. It's also nearly twice as long as the regulations dictate for maximum circuit length; Spa only just makes it, so at thirteen kilometres Le Mans is too long. No-one would want to watch a twenty-lap race.

As for Paul Ricard, there are chicanes on the Mistral, but they can be bypassed. The bigger problem is that is has officially been designated a testing venue only, and while it has unusual features - the circuit can be flooded to simulate wet conditions even in the dry - it is owned by Bernie Ecclestone, and there's no way he'll let it host a race.

Le Mans - I actually had no idea that there was a maximum circuit length in F1. Saying that, I'd quite happily watch a 20 lap race. The number of laps wouldn't bother me at all. Obviously closing public roads there isn't a problem. It gets done for the 24hrs

Ricard - I didn't know that official testing venues couldn't be raced at. What about Barcelona and Silverstone? I know Bernie owns it, I expect he'd find a way of making himself a fortune out of hosting it although it would put him in a politically awkward situation with the fees he charges to everyone else.

Rouen's circuit layout:



Ricard:



Dijon:



Clermont-Ferrand:


Charade:


Rouen has some pedigree but it's almost obsolete for this sort of racing. Ricard unlikely, Dijon too generic though good area, Clermont-Ferrand seems like the best circuit layout and it's in Renault country isn't it?

I think, for similar reasons to the Nordschiffe, it would actually be impossible to make Clermont Ferrand safe. Not enough space to make the run-off areas and stuff as its on a hillside!!

The Rouen circuit doesn't even exist anymore.

Captain Hammer wrote:Le Mans wouldn't work because there's a lot of public roads that would have to be closed.

I presume you mean the roads that they already close for Le Mans and the Classic Meeting. Self evidently it can be done, although maybe not every year.

Not sure what the circuit length rules is there for. Although spectating for only twenty laps could be a bit of a turn off.

I suspect F1 cars will be too fast at some points on the circuit, like Indianapolis.

Would be fun though.

Ross Prawn wrote:Not sure what the circuit length rules is there for.

I remember Jackie Stewart mentioning that at a long circuit like the Nürburgring, in case of rain you don't have homogeneous track conditions. One part of track could be dry as a bone, while another part be flooded. This of course happens at smaller circuits as well, but it's generally a transient situation that stabilizes after a few laps. I am not sure many drivers would be happy to race down the Mulsanne straight at 370 kph just to find a puddle at the end of it...

I imagine the circuit length rules are for spectators benefits and also because F1 seems obsessed with ensuring that no new track deviates too much from the norm unless it benefits Bernie suitably, i.e. night racing is fine if it helps the TV audience. It's the same reason people wanting a race all call the same guy to design their new track. If someone really wanted to pay Bernie to hold a race on an especially long circuit then i'm sure the rules could be bent but it's not really in anyone's interest.

So as for a French GP, we'll prolly end up back at Magny-Cours if it happens anytime soon, just not sure there's been enough of an outcry to bring it back.

Magny-Cours just needs to remove the unnecessary final right-left chicane from its layout. Apart from that, it has grown into a likeable circuit by ways of all the upgrades it has received in recent years - kind of like Hungaroring by the way, which is also decent now. Installing some catch-fencing on some of the walls on the back stretch should be mandatory though, when remembering EJ Viso's accident in GP2 a while ago.

Le Castellet just lacks grandstands. Bernie's director of operations already has publicly stated that they were considering a bid for F1 if they found a title sponsor. Building temporary grandstands would totally be possible.

The full Le Mans Circuit de la Sarthe isn't up to safety standards. Even for their 24 hour race, they really should do something about the walls in the Porsche Curves.

It'll be interesting to see DTM race at Dijon in the fall because the place looks kind of run down in videos. Maybe this is just a misperception, but we'll see. The track would be way too short for F1 as well.

I have seen a track map for the Flins proposal, but it doesn't look particularly exciting and lacks the main feature that a French GP track should have: a long straight (Mulsanne, Mistral, etc.)

Therefore, my vote goes to Ricard. Santé.

Definitely not Magny Cours. Dijon used to be an utter shambles - the number of things that went wrong there due to bad organisation (although some down to bad luck admittedly) is unbelievable, just watch some of the early 80s races!

Has to be Paul Ricard if we must go back to France, but I'm quite happy for there to be no French GP quite honestly.

I remember this debate taking place before, after Magny-Cours held its last race, and both Autosport and AutoHebdo (in their magazine and on their forum) suggested seriously about a GP at Disneyland - hotel infrastructure, transport links (near Charles de Gaulle Airport, RER railway, Eurostar, near Paris), and it would be about the only time I could get a GP in in the middle of a family holiday... Track might be a bit Mickey Mouse though

dr-baker wrote: Track might be a bit Mickey Mouse though

Mickey Mouse has a Nelson Piquet watch

Barbazza wrote:Definitely not Magny Cours. Dijon used to be an utter shambles - the number of things that went wrong there due to bad organisation (although some down to bad luck admittedly) is unbelievable, just watch some of the early 80s races!

Has to be Paul Ricard if we must go back to France, but I'm quite happy for there to be no French GP quite honestly.

But we also got the greatest duel in F1 history.

Living in Paris myself, I don't see the problem with being able to shut off a few roads for a while (the metro service is good enough) and have a street course. I'd like to see it in Versailles, but equally it could be done on a few of the roads in the centre of Paris around The Arc de Triomphe.

Tours - Historic Revival Track



Epic

The Rouen circuit doesn't even exist anymore

Yeah but why not give us a real reason why we can't race there.

jackanderton wrote:

The Rouen circuit doesn't even exist anymore

Yeah but why not give us a real reason why we can't race there.

Best. Post. Ever.











(Except for all of mine ...)

Captain Hammer wrote:As for Paul Ricard, [...] it is owned by Bernie Ecclestone, and there's no way he'll let it host a race.

Actually, it seems that he's not. Claude Sagetotally deniyed it.

Bring back Boulogne:

Which direction does that go?

Paul Ricard FTW

Charade is an awesome track, though I don't think it would be feasible. I remember reading something on its Wikipedia article that something was the matter with it.

I think this video settles it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr_6mA8Q2tI

Last night I had a 30 lap race around Rouen on rFactor and still can't get over how amazing it was as a circuit. To hell with the safety, noise, pollution and disruption it would cause. Bring back the best track in Frances history!

It's like a mini-Spa.

Probs already been suggested, but the Circuit de la Sarthe at Le Mans...and not the sh*t Bugatti track.

Or being slightly more realistic:

I'm not so certain that the Circuit de la Sarthe would work so well for a Formula One race. It's a fantastic track with plenty of history, and it works very well for sports car racing, but for its length, there are very few corners, which makes it more suited to lower-downforce cars set up for high top speeds, with engines that can take full throttle for long stretches at a time. Formula One cars are probably too highly-strung for the circuit, even with the hyper-reliability of today's engines.

As well as that, with the problems with turbulence behind a Formula One car, I'm expecting we wouldn't see as much overtaking as we'd like. With the low-downforce sports prototypes and grand tourers, cars can get very close on the Hunaudieres, and there are places along it where overtaking is very possible. With turbulence affecting the open-wheelers of Formula One, it could well be frustrating for the viewers of the race.

kostas22 wrote:
Or being slightly more realistic:

Did you take that circuit from Gran Turismo 4 perhaps?

My choice would be Paul Ricard. Heck, I just love how smooth it is.

Phoenix wrote:

kostas22 wrote:
Or being slightly more realistic:

Did you take that circuit from Gran Turismo 4 perhaps?

Nope. Though now you mention it I remember there being 2 tracks in GT4 in Paris...Opera Paris and George VI Paris...I was always rubbish at both of them!
But no, I'm pretty sure they aren't the same...