Grand Prix Rejects

Posted: **21 Aug 2009, 20:34**

Out of all the drivers who qualify for reject status, there are some who, in spite of their lack of success, have had their day or days in the sun, so which F1 rejects have had one or more good races, yet gone unrewarded, in your opinion.

I'll start with the obvious by picking Luca Badoer, since he is the man of the moment, and I'm a life long Minardi fan, by picking out the 1999 European Grand Prix, where he should have had fourth place, and could have even been third if he had changed onto the correct tyres at the right time. He certainly out drove a lot of other drivers who made a complete mess of that race by making strategic blunders, or spinning off the track. He really was robbed that day.

Okay, that wasn't very original, so I'm sure the rest of you can do better.

Posted: **21 Aug 2009, 21:20**

Markus Winkelhock deserves a nod here, if for nothing else than getting the worst car on the grid in first place in his debut race.

Posted: **21 Aug 2009, 22:31**

1997 Austrian Grand Prix, remembered more for Trulli leading in the Prost, but he was backed up by Shinji Nakano, who was running a solid 5th (I think) when his engine gave up.

Posted: **21 Aug 2009, 23:46**

Is Ivan Capelli a reject? I recall a wonderful race where he drove his March without changing tires for a whole race and led for a while, finally finishing second behind Prost. A fabulous drive in a non-turbo car against formidable opposition. I guess the points for second rules him out as a reject. I've even got an Ivan Capelli helmet pin here somewhere.

Posted: **22 Aug 2009, 14:46**

dresda wrote:Is Ivan Capelli a reject? I recall a wonderful race where he drove his March without changing tires for a whole race and led for a while, finally finishing second behind Prost. A fabulous drive in a non-turbo car against formidable opposition. I guess the points for second rules him out as a reject. I've even got an Ivan Capelli helmet pin here somewhere.

Yes, he's not a reject, so as good a drive as that was, it doesn't count for this thread I'm afraid.

Only drivers who are classified as rejects (with or without a profile) qualify for this thread.

Posted: **22 Aug 2009, 16:19**

dresda wrote:Is Ivan Capelli a reject? I recall a wonderful race where he drove his March without changing tires for a whole race and led for a while, finally finishing second behind Prost. A fabulous drive in a non-turbo car against formidable opposition. I guess the points for second rules him out as a reject. I've even got an Ivan Capelli helmet pin here somewhere.

He would have been reject of the year in 1992: http://www.f1rejects.com/centrale/capelli/index.html

Posted: **22 Aug 2009, 19:08**

I've got a few

Bernoldi at Monaco 2001 - You may disagree as it is difficult to overtake at Monaco.
Barbazza at Imola 1993 - 25th to 6th in a Minardi is not a reject performance, To be honest, That's impressive in any car.
Sutil at Monaco 2008 - This was mainly due to simply staying in the Grand Prix until being hit by Raikkonen.
Bourdais at Spa 2008 - If he had made the right gamble, he could have finished 2nd.

Posted: **22 Aug 2009, 20:55**

Although I didn't see it myself, and although it might have been more about attrition than anything else, Eric van de Poele running 5th in the abysmal Modena-Lambo at Imola in 1991 would certainly rank as an impressive drive... Such a shame it all had to come undone for him, and in the very last lap!

By the way, hi everyone

Posted: **22 Aug 2009, 23:05**

I would have to say Markus Winkelhock - qualify last, then had a 30-second lead before the race was red-flagged, then fell back from first to last before retiring. Last to first to last to DNF? Pukka!

Posted: **23 Aug 2009, 11:00**

redbulljack14 wrote:I've got a few

Bernoldi at Monaco 2001 - You may disagree as it is difficult to overtake at Monaco.
Barbazza at Imola 1993 - 25th to 6th in a Minardi is not a reject performance, To be honest, That's impressive in any car.
Sutil at Monaco 2008 - This was mainly due to simply staying in the Grand Prix until being hit by Raikkonen.
Bourdais at Spa 2008 - If he had made the right gamble, he could have finished 2nd.

I was impressed by Sutil in China this year.

Posted: **23 Aug 2009, 15:05**

redbulljack14 wrote:I've got a few

Bernoldi at Monaco 2001 - You may disagree as it is difficult to overtake at Monaco.

Yup, I disagree. Mobile Chicanes are most effective at Monaco. He held up a car that was only there because of a technical failure...

Posted: **25 Aug 2009, 03:11**

Sutil's efforts at Monaco '08 and Germany '09 are definite candidate drives.

What about Gaston "The Flying Mullet" Mazzacane's brief appearance in 3rd place at the 2000 US GP where he and Hakkinen battled it out for a few laps? I still remember Murray Walker incredulously asking why he wasn't being shown the blue flags and it taking Martin Brundle a few attempts to make him realise they were battling for position. :lol:

Olivier Groulliard qualifying 10th at the 1991 Mexican GP in the Fondmetal, which (IIR) hadn't made the grid in any of the previous rounds that season. A hugely impressive effort and never again repeated for the team or driver.

Justin Wilson vaulting himself into the points off the start at the 2003 Malaysian GP before succumbing to shoulder cramps courtesy of his HANS device?

I would nominate Nicola Larini running in 3rd place at the rain-affected 1989 Canadian GP before his engine gave way. Can we include Reject Teams, even if the driver wasn't an F1 Reject themselves?

Posted: **25 Aug 2009, 11:46**

minrdi wrote:What about Gaston "The Flying Mullet" Mazzacane's brief appearance in 3rd place at the 2000 US GP where he and Hakkinen battled it out for a few laps? I still remember Murray Walker incredulously asking why he wasn't being shown the blue flags and it taking Martin Brundle a few attempts to make him realise they were battling for position.

Olivier Groulliard qualifying 10th at the 1991 Mexican GP in the Fondmetal, which (IIR) hadn't made the grid in any of the previous rounds that season. A hugely impressive effort and never again repeated for the team or driver.

I like both of those nominations. Grouillard even outqualified Prost's Ferrari!

I would nominate Nicola Larini running in 3rd place at the rain-affected 1989 Canadian GP before his engine gave way. Can we include Reject Teams, even if the driver wasn't an F1 Reject themselves?

Larini isn't a reject unfortunately, so that doesn't count, although having water get into the electrical system cause your retirement was a very unfortunate way for him to retire, albeit rather in keeping with Osella. I'm not going to allow reject teams into this, although if you manage to nominate a reject driver who also drove a good race for a reject team, then you get bonus points

.

Speaking of which, Piercarlo Ghinzani finishing fifth in the Osella in 1984 at that ghastly Dallas circuit was a good drive, on a day when so many top drivers crashed out.

Posted: **25 Aug 2009, 15:19**

Sutil's drive at Monaco '08 is way over-rated, because the only reason he got that high was by passing 2 or 3 cars under yellow flags. He was going to be given a time penalty after the race if he finished, putting him well out of the points.

Posted: **26 Aug 2009, 19:24**

Jan Lammers qualifying 4th in Long Beach in 1980 was pretty impressive.
Or, a faultless lap of Yuji Ide

Posted: **27 Aug 2009, 04:12**

Mario And-- oh wait... he's not a reject, probably because of his podium finish at the 1993 Italian(?) GP, and I was just going to nominate that.

Well than, um... I guess that finishing on the podium automatically disqualifies you, since it falls outside the reject criteria. It's hard for me to nominate anyone then. XD

Posted: **27 Aug 2009, 11:56**

Ed24 wrote:Sutil's drive at Monaco '08 is way over-rated, because the only reason he got that high was by passing 2 or 3 cars under yellow flags. He was going to be given a time penalty after the race if he finished, putting him well out of the points.

There was some argument that he passed a car under a yellow flag in Autosport's reporting of that weekend, but he was fined for this, and this was apparently going to be the penalty, not a time penalty, as they could have given him a stop go in the race (the incident occurred very early on), but didn't.

I have read no evidence that he would have been given a time penalty, so where did you get this from?

Posted: **27 Aug 2009, 15:34**

Waris wrote:Mario And-- oh wait... he's not a reject, probably because of his podium finish at the 1993 Italian(?) GP, and I was just going to nominate that.

Well than, um... I guess that finishing on the podium automatically disqualifies you, since it falls outside the reject criteria. It's hard for me to nominate anyone then. XD

Don't you mean the nearly-reject MICHAEL Andretti - Mario Andretti just happens to be the 1978 champion... :oops:

But I'm sure you meant that...

Posted: **28 Aug 2009, 11:05**

dr-baker wrote:
Waris wrote:Mario And-- oh wait... he's not a reject, probably because of his podium finish at the 1993 Italian(?) GP, and I was just going to nominate that.

Well than, um... I guess that finishing on the podium automatically disqualifies you, since it falls outside the reject criteria. It's hard for me to nominate anyone then. XD

Don't you mean the nearly-reject MICHAEL Andretti - Mario Andretti just happens to be the 1978 champion... But I'm sure you meant that...

FFFFF, of course. I always mess up Mario, Michael and even Marco. Why do they all have to have names that start with M? :lol:

Posted: **28 Aug 2009, 18:27**

Waris wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
Waris wrote:Mario And-- oh wait... he's not a reject, probably because of his podium finish at the 1993 Italian(?) GP, and I was just going to nominate that.

Well than, um... I guess that finishing on the podium automatically disqualifies you, since it falls outside the reject criteria. It's hard for me to nominate anyone then. XD

Don't you mean the nearly-reject MICHAEL Andretti - Mario Andretti just happens to be the 1978 champion... But I'm sure you meant that...

FFFFF, of course. I always mess up Mario, Michael and even Marco. Why do they all have to have names that start with M?

Probably cause they're two fathers and two sons?

Posted: **28 Aug 2009, 19:36**

DonTirri wrote:
Waris wrote:
FFFFF, of course. I always mess up Mario, Michael and even Marco. Why do they all have to have names that start with M?

Probably cause they're two fathers and two sons?

Maybe so. But Mario also has son named Jeff, while his wife's name is Dee Ann. Michael has been married several times but Marco's mother's name is Sandra, everyone's name doesn't start with M.

Posted: **28 Aug 2009, 23:38**

It's a shame reject teams don't count, otherwise I would have added Roberto Moreno qualifying an Andrea Moda at Monaco 1992.

Posted: **29 Aug 2009, 15:30**

Irisado wrote:
Ed24 wrote:Sutil's drive at Monaco '08 is way over-rated, because the only reason he got that high was by passing 2 or 3 cars under yellow flags. He was going to be given a time penalty after the race if he finished, putting him well out of the points.

There was some argument that he passed a car under a yellow flag in Autosport's reporting of that weekend, but he was fined for this, and this was apparently going to be the penalty, not a time penalty, as they could have given him a stop go in the race (the incident occurred very early on), but didn't.

I have read no evidence that he would have been given a time penalty, so where did you get this from?

I don't know if this was the exact article that I read at the time, but here is an article stating that he wouldn't have scored points - according to one of the stewards.

http://www.manipef1.com/news/articles/7017/

Posted: **29 Aug 2009, 19:03**

I'd still go for the 'super Winkle' for Europe 2007, mainly for being a fact-spotters dream. The only driver to start last and first during the same Grand Prix and the only driver to qualify last and lead during his debut.

Posted: **29 Aug 2009, 22:44**

Ed24 wrote:I don't know if this was the exact article that I read at the time, but here is an article stating that he wouldn't have scored points - according to one of the stewards.

http://www.manipef1.com/news/articles/7017/

Thanks for the link.

I'm not sure how reliable that information is, as I certainly didn't read it in the sources I read, but it's all academic in light of the collision with Raikkonen anyway.

Posted: **30 Aug 2009, 06:47**

Sutil was unlucky with Rosberg having heavy crash which caused the SC. Here are the standings before the crash. Nico was a lap down at that point so he isn't in this table anymore.

COunting on 25-second penalty he had still about seven seconds on Vettel with 18 laps to go. (without that SC I think full distance could have been reached, 2 hours came on lap 76 now)

Posted: **01 Sep 2009, 15:50**

Back in 1989, Gabriele Tarquini made great drives with AGS (!) in Monaco, Mexico and Phoenix. He would score his sole career point in Mexico, but the sight of him battling against a Williams-Renault in Phoenix was awesome!

Posted: **04 Sep 2009, 04:29**

I nominate Eric Van de Poele for his performance in the 1991 San Marino GP (at least I think that was the race; I am too lazy to fact-check). He came within a couple of corners from scoring a couple of points for what was the geometrric nightmare of the Lambo factory effort. Bouns points for not being able to qualify for a single event the rest of the season.

Posted: **05 Sep 2009, 22:22**

As an aside to this thread, what's the best drive to save a driver and/or team from then Rejectdom? I think Fis's podium for Force India last week has to be pretty high on that list.

Posted: **06 Sep 2009, 07:44**

- Aguri Suzuki at Suzuka 1990. He was a reject (2 6th places) going to the race and scored a podium. Of course helped by the retirements of both McLarens and Ferraris but he beat two Williamses fair and square. But he scored two 6th places after that so I'm not so sure if this counts, because those would have helped him out anyway.

Posted: **06 Sep 2009, 14:34**

IntegratorTypeR wrote:As an aside to this thread, what's the best drive to save a driver and/or team from then Rejectdom? I think Fis's podium for Force India last week has to be pretty high on that list.

Roberto Moreno, Japan, 1991, he scored a 2nd. for Benetton. he later stacked some points (not too much anyway, but before that run in suzuka he was sentenced to rejectdom straight away.

Posted: **06 Sep 2009, 15:37**

Taku Sato dragging his Super Aguri to 6th in Canada '07.
But not quite enough to save them from rejectdom unfortunately :/

Posted: **06 Sep 2009, 16:37**

Has anyone in this thread mentioned Gastón Mazzacane's famous drive in 2000 at... was it San Marino? I can't remember... where he fought with Mika Häkkinen for 3rd place?

Posted: **06 Sep 2009, 17:04**

Waris wrote:Has anyone in this thread mentioned Gastón Mazzacane's famous drive in 2000 at... was it San Marino? I can't remember... where he fought with Mika Häkkinen for 3rd place?

It was Indy.

Posted: **09 Sep 2009, 22:15**

Mazzacane's drive at Indy was one I didn't see (it's the only Grand Prix I've missed since I started watching F1, and I am still really disgruntled to this day I didn't see it. Mazzacane racing Hakkinen. I'll be Murray Walker was going mad.

David Purley's drive for Lec in the 1977 Belgian Grand Prix was also quite impressive I am told, so that could be another possibility for the best drive by an F1 Reject.

Posted: **10 Sep 2009, 14:23**

Irisado wrote:Mazzacane's drive at Indy was one I didn't see (it's the only Grand Prix I've missed since I started watching F1, and I am still really disgruntled to this day I didn't see it. Mazzacane racing Hakkinen. I'll be Murray Walker was going mad.

You be the judge.

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