Grand Prix Rejects

Source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92737

Only reason I posted this is because I haven't lol'd in awhile. Why? Because Martin Whitmarsh is so deluded he thinks F1 should take back the Long Beach Grand Prix.


Go to Road America, you get the Chicago market. Therefore I can go to it. And take the V8 Supercars there too!

Infineon?

Long beach would actually be pretty good. think of the indycars,alms,continental sportcars, and f1 on the same weekend!!! PEOPLE'S MINDS WOULD BE BLOWN WITH ALL THAT HORSEPOWAH!!! i have actually drawn out some f1-layouts out of boredom on google earth.

I thought we've already established that Road America was too remote for anything to happen there?

Maybe the FIA can stop whining that "the corkscrew is too dangerous!!!" and we can go to Laguna Seca?


Or screw it, screw Bernie, let's go back to Indy. Provided good racing, had good facilities, was at the most famous track in the US, and was a smash hit in ticket sales. 2005 was 6 years ago. WHATS WRONG WITH INDY??

Elkhart Lake / Road America is like the Donington of the US. F1 would be really great there, just probably not for the promoter.
On the other hand, why can't there be a NASCAR Sprint Cup race at Donington Park? This would be a blast, wouldn't it?

Long Beach would be cool, although I think it's a little short for modern F1 cars. But I more than welcome it. Sebering might be a good choice. It's probably too bumpy, but it seems suited for it nonetheless.

Peter wrote:Maybe the FIA can stop whining that "the corkscrew is too dangerous!!!" and we can go to Laguna Seca?

Trust me, the FIA has been whining about the podium incident at Jerez since 1997, I doubt they're going to stop whining about Laguna Seca.

And I want Rubens Barrichello to be World Champion, ain't gonna happen though.

But to throw a more rational look at it, I say it would be silly to have two American races, especially since he's trying to justify it by marketing opportunities. Reality is, however, if we were to go by that, China should have two races first. It's an even larger market for car producers, although sport cars might not be so fashionable there.

Cynon wrote:Go to Road America, you get the Chicago market. Therefore I can go to it. And take the V8 Supercars there too!

Too late. V8s just followed F1 to Austin!

Well with Texas being where it is that appeals to the potential for US and south American attendees, even if this absrud plan were to happen how would it work logistically? You'd have montreal, then texas then where? Three weeks on the bounce for F1 weekends? That surely won't fly with the teams. Unless they arrange it so that Bernie's New York pipedream happenes a week after Montreal and move Texas to before/after the Sao paulo race

As much as it would be the crime of the century, someone should really just copy Road America, top to toe, with all the elevation exactly the same, and put it somewhere not so, um, middle-of-nowhere, because it's frankly one of the greatest tracks in thew world. Laguna Seca wouldn't be bad, but it's overhyped because of the Corkscrew. Seriously, without that massive elevation change, it'd just be something of a kink. Long Beach would be fantastic, and so would Watkins Glen, as long as the modifications needed aren't done by Herr Tilke (or at least he doesn't do a terrible job at it).

I actually really want to see the Cleveland Airport circuit on the calendar. Alright, there's only one massive grandstand along the long straight going into the start/finish, but it's a great circuit, with plenty of crazy things happening (1999, 2000 (Moreno winning), 2001 (Max Wilson leading, Memo Gidley almost winning)). And the insane first turn is sure to allow some HRT to get up 10th or so right?

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:I actually really want to see the Cleveland Airport circuit on the calendar. Alright, there's only one massive grandstand along the long straight going into the start/finish, but it's a great circuit, with plenty of crazy things happening (1999, 2000 (Moreno winning), 2001 (Max Wilson leading, Memo Gidley almost winning)). And the insane first turn is sure to allow some HRT to get up 10th or so right?

That first corner is a magnet for trouble

Wizzie wrote:

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:I actually really want to see the Cleveland Airport circuit on the calendar. Alright, there's only one massive grandstand along the long straight going into the start/finish, but it's a great circuit, with plenty of crazy things happening (1999, 2000 (Moreno winning), 2001 (Max Wilson leading, Memo Gidley almost winning)). And the insane first turn is sure to allow some HRT to get up 10th or so right?

That first corner is a magnet for trouble

Just imagine all the havoc that the V8s would cause at Cleveland, let alone the carbon fiber shards that F1 would cause there...

Formula 1 will only race at a venue built for Formula 1. Bernie doesn't like races taking place at circuits that have hosted other races. Formula 1 has to have first bite at the apple.

Speaking of apples, I would not object to a race in or near New York. A street circuit would probably be best. A proper one, this time - the one at Liberty State Park looked pretty good.

Cynon wrote:Go to Road America, you get the Chicago market. Therefore I can go to it. And take the V8 Supercars there too!

Only for them to prefer that new venue in Austin... Australian V8 Supercars to race in Texas

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:As much as it would be the crime of the century, someone should really just copy Road America, top to toe, with all the elevation exactly the same, and put it somewhere not so, um, middle-of-nowhere, because it's frankly one of the greatest tracks in thew world. Laguna Seca wouldn't be bad, but it's overhyped because of the Corkscrew. Seriously, without that massive elevation change, it'd just be something of a kink. Long Beach would be fantastic, and so would Watkins Glen, as long as the modifications needed aren't done by Herr Tilke (or at least he doesn't do a terrible job at it).

I actually really want to see the Cleveland Airport circuit on the calendar. Alright, there's only one massive grandstand along the long straight going into the start/finish, but it's a great circuit, with plenty of crazy things happening (1999, 2000 (Moreno winning), 2001 (Max Wilson leading, Memo Gidley almost winning)). And the insane first turn is sure to allow some HRT to get up 10th or so right?

The other irony with The Corkscrew at Laguna Seca is that the whole design of the corner is in fact accidental - at least, from what I have heard, that corner wasn't originally on the plans, and only came about due to a mistake during construction.

Forget street circuits. Indy or Watkins Glen.

uh_clem wrote:Indy

The road course? You're mad. That was one of the most blandest layouts ever IMO.

Captain Hammer wrote:Formula 1 will only race at a venue built for Formula 1. Bernie doesn't like races taking place at circuits that have hosted other races. Formula 1 has to have first bite at the apple.

Speaking of apples, I would not object to a race in or near New York. A street circuit would probably be best. A proper one, this time - the one at Liberty State Park looked pretty good.

An F1 race within 25 miles of me? YES! DO IT! A race IN New York would be amazing, but very difficult to pull off. New Jersey is much more likely. Preferably New Jersey. Yeah. Bring F1 to my state. That will tell New Yorkers to suck it.

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:

uh_clem wrote:Indy

The road course? You're mad. That was one of the most blandest layouts ever IMO.

What? That is one of my favourite race tracks in the world. Why do you dislike me?

Klon wrote:

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:

uh_clem wrote:Indy

The road course? You're mad. That was one of the most blandest layouts ever IMO.

What? That is one of my favourite race tracks in the world. Why do you dislike me?

Do you like the Indy road course layout? My, I guess there is really tastes for everything in this world!!!

DanielPT wrote: Do you like the Indy road course layout? My, I guess there is really tastes for everything in this world!!!

I agree, it was pretty bland. That said, it was probably the product of two very poor circumstances, limited space at the venue, and the fact the Herman-Tilke was involved.

While not a brilliant design (but a brilliant race), it would be interesting to see F1 compete on the Daytona Roval like the Rolex 24 cars do. What some of you may not realize that I was overjoyed to find out, is that if you find yourself just the right seat in the grandstands, which I did, you can see THE ENTIRE TRACK. I was watched passes get set up a lap and a half in advance. Amazing. You don't get that anywhere.

F1000X wrote:

DanielPT wrote: Do you like the Indy road course layout? My, I guess there is really tastes for everything in this world!!!

I agree, it was pretty bland. That said, it was probably the product of two very poor circumstances, limited space at the venue, and the fact the Herman-Tilke was involved.

While not a brilliant design (but a brilliant race), it would be interesting to see F1 compete on the Daytona Roval like the Rolex 24 cars do. What some of you may not realize that I was overjoyed to find out, is that if you find yourself just the right seat in the grandstands, which I did, you can see THE ENTIRE TRACK. I was watched passes get set up a lap and a half in advance. Amazing. You don't get that anywhere.

You get to see 95-98% of the Brands Hatch Indy track from Paddock Hill grandstand, and the same of the infield from some of the grandstandstands at the British Rockingham oval.

DanielPT wrote:Do you like the Indy road course layout? My, I guess there is really tastes for everything in this world!!!

It's the first turn that does it, dat overtaking spot. Imagine that with DRS. Delicious no-one-keeps-their-position-racing.

Klon wrote:

DanielPT wrote:Do you like the Indy road course layout? My, I guess there is really tastes for everything in this world!!!

It's the first turn that does it, dat overtaking spot. Imagine that with DRS. Delicious no-one-keeps-their-position-racing.

I was thinking we could modify that. Maybe they could brake later on the straight, and have a Cleveland-esque first turn. Of course, the track will have to be a bit wider so as to avoid any contact

Then in the middle we can have some technical section that challenges the driver physically, car mechanically and all that, another hairpin going into turn 2 of the oval, and then reuse the rest of the original track.

only if they go to indy.



for the oval.

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:I actually really want to see the Cleveland Airport circuit on the calendar. Alright, there's only one massive grandstand along the long straight going into the start/finish, but it's a great circuit...

Speaking of bland course layouts.

dr-baker wrote: You get to see 95-98% of the Brands Hatch Indy track from Paddock Hill grandstand, and the same of the infield from some of the grandstandstands at the British Rockingham oval.

I need to visit Brands Hatch then, for the touring car race. Here's a question, if I go to the race, do I get to hear Ben Edwards screaming over the PA? He is half the reason I watch.

F1000X wrote:

dr-baker wrote: You get to see 95-98% of the Brands Hatch Indy track from Paddock Hill grandstand, and the same of the infield from some of the grandstandstands at the British Rockingham oval.

I need to visit Brands Hatch then, for the touring car race. Here's a question, if I go to the race, do I get to hear Ben Edwards screaming over the PA? He is half the reason I watch.

Unfortuantely not. You get Simon Hill (father of Jake Hill, not Josh Hill. Jake is making a name for himself in Ginettas).

uh_clem wrote:

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:I actually really want to see the Cleveland Airport circuit on the calendar. Alright, there's only one massive grandstand along the long straight going into the start/finish, but it's a great circuit...

Speaking of bland course layouts.

How is it bland? Perhaps on paper it doesn't look like anything special, but it's a good track. But then to come to think of it, way too short.

Captain Hammer wrote:Formula 1 will only race at a venue built for Formula 1. Bernie doesn't like races taking place at circuits that have hosted other races. Formula 1 has to have first bite at the apple.

Speaking of apples, I would not object to a race in or near New York. A street circuit would probably be best. A proper one, this time - the one at Liberty State Park looked pretty good.

Even more the reason why I hope Bernie steps down soon. That first bite of the apple mindset is robbing F1 of going to great racetracks and costing people hundreds of millions to build brand new racetracks that aren't really needed.

Long Beach and Laguna Seca. There WILL be violence if modern F1 does not go to either of these circuits at some points.

About Laguna Seca, I think that Bernie might have been spooked by a CART driver being killed there about 10 years ago at the corkscrew. That said, I bit more runoff would solve that.

beetleman64 wrote:Long Beach and Laguna Seca. There WILL be violence if modern F1 does not go to either of these circuits at some points.

About Laguna Seca, I think that Bernie might have been spooked by a CART driver being killed there about 10 years ago at the corkscrew. That said, I bit more runoff would solve that.

Gonzalo Rodríguez seems to be the driver you are thinking of (he was killed during a practise session in 1999, when his car collided and was flipped over a concrete barrier at The Corkscrew). It seems that part of the problem was the lack of run off meant that his car effectively didn't slow down when he left the track, and partially due to a lack of energy absorbing structures in front of the concrete barriers - the problem being that whilst the latter can be addressed, the former is harder to tackle.

On top of that, when there was the deliberate wrecking that went on at the end of an ALMS race a while ago, some of the debris from the accident was thrown over the pit wall because the crash protection along the pit wall (including catch fencing) is limited.

mario wrote:Gonzalo Rodríguez seems to be the driver you are thinking of (he was killed during a practise session in 1999, when his car collided and was flipped over a concrete barrier at The Corkscrew). It seems that part of the problem was the lack of run off meant that his car effectively didn't slow down when he left the track, and partially due to a lack of energy absorbing structures in front of the concrete barriers - the problem being that whilst the latter can be addressed, the former is harder to tackle.

On top of that, when there was the deliberate wrecking that went on at the end of an ALMS race a while ago, some of the debris from the accident was thrown over the pit wall because the crash protection along the pit wall (including catch fencing) is limited.

There seems to be a very remote chance then, and while there should always be some element of danger, it's important that mechanics and others aren't hurt or worse.

Can't think of any reason why we can't go to Long Beach though! Indycars go there and they're not a huge amount faster than F1,

beetleman64 wrote:

mario wrote:Gonzalo Rodríguez seems to be the driver you are thinking of (he was killed during a practise session in 1999, when his car collided and was flipped over a concrete barrier at The Corkscrew). It seems that part of the problem was the lack of run off meant that his car effectively didn't slow down when he left the track, and partially due to a lack of energy absorbing structures in front of the concrete barriers - the problem being that whilst the latter can be addressed, the former is harder to tackle.

On top of that, when there was the deliberate wrecking that went on at the end of an ALMS race a while ago, some of the debris from the accident was thrown over the pit wall because the crash protection along the pit wall (including catch fencing) is limited.

There seems to be a very remote chance then, and while there should always be some element of danger, it's important that mechanics and others aren't hurt or worse.

Can't think of any reason why we can't go to Long Beach though! Indycars go there and they're not a huge amount faster than F1,

They aren't faster than F1 cars at all. Besides in a straight line.

Regarding Gonzalo's crash, that was because of a stuck throttle. Runoff wouldn't have helped him much. They would just need to put some better barriers and much higher and stronger catch fencing, and that kind of accident can be avoided.

Peter wrote:

beetleman64 wrote:

mario wrote:Gonzalo Rodríguez seems to be the driver you are thinking of (he was killed during a practise session in 1999, when his car collided and was flipped over a concrete barrier at The Corkscrew). It seems that part of the problem was the lack of run off meant that his car effectively didn't slow down when he left the track, and partially due to a lack of energy absorbing structures in front of the concrete barriers - the problem being that whilst the latter can be addressed, the former is harder to tackle.

On top of that, when there was the deliberate wrecking that went on at the end of an ALMS race a while ago, some of the debris from the accident was thrown over the pit wall because the crash protection along the pit wall (including catch fencing) is limited.

There seems to be a very remote chance then, and while there should always be some element of danger, it's important that mechanics and others aren't hurt or worse.

Can't think of any reason why we can't go to Long Beach though! Indycars go there and they're not a huge amount faster than F1,

They aren't faster than F1 cars at all. Besides in a straight line.

Regarding Gonzalo's crash, that was because of a stuck throttle. Runoff wouldn't have helped him much. They would just need to put some better barriers and much higher and stronger catch fencing, and that kind of accident can be avoided.

Also, HANS wasn't mandated at the time (it would take 2 years for that to happen). In my opinion, if he had HANS on, it may have saved him.

[...]

If TPTB in F1 were smart, they'd arrange some sort of 'Stars N' Stripes Cup'/ championship within a championship, that would span 2-3 Grands Prix across the country in the span of 2-3 consecutive weekends.

Spam themselves on mainstream TV, giveaway a couple of Ferraris and McLarens as fan prizes, encourage dumb passing attempts and aggressive driving by awarding 150, 125, and 100 points for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place of each American GP event, have a couple of F1 cars do a couple of test runs on an oval track prior to the start of a NASCAR race (just because!), etc!

They want to conquer America? Fine, make F1 a giant epic spectacle the likes of which America has never seen.

Whitmarsh should hire me for some more good ideas, and to show him how to properly drive his McLarens, IMO.
[...]

[...]

Ontopic: Even though I wouldn't mind seeing F1 return to Glen, I think F1 would be better off without USA at all, since it's painfully obvious the majority of US citizens don't care for anything that A) Isn't American made and/or (mostly and) B) Americans succeed in.

DonTirri wrote:[...]
Ontopic: Even though I wouldn't mind seeing F1 return to Glen, I think F1 would be better off without USA at all, since it's painfully obvious the majority of US citizens don't care for anything that A) Isn't American made and/or (mostly and) B) Americans succeed in.

I'll ignore your sarcasm hint for a moment and say: Let USF1 buy out HRT! Come out of your home, USF1!