Grand Prix Rejects

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/9/9934.html

- These guys have 'Reject' written all over them... they even have Gascoyne on board!

I wonder if this means qualifying at Monaco will see 2 drivers go home, can they fit 14 teams in the paddock and on the grid?

Still this is great news for F1 and for Mike who is the ultimate reject team tacticion when it comes to wet weather (Winklehock at the Nurburgring). If all of the new teams make it to the grid next year then 2010 could be a classic season.

It's getting late in the day to be getting an F1 car ready for next year. It will be interesting to see how they do - there'll be a lot of cars battling to be on the back row of the grid next season, I expect. But nice to have them here in Norfolk, for a while anyway! Hopefully we can wangle some decent coverage of them on BBC Radio Norfolk.

Paul Hayes wrote:It's getting late in the day to be getting an F1 car ready for next year. It will be interesting to see how they do - there'll be a lot of cars battling to be on the back row of the grid next season, I expect. But nice to have them here in Norfolk, for a while anyway! Hopefully we can wangle some decent coverage of them on BBC Radio Norfolk.

Lola continued development of their car even after they lost out in the initial selection process. No doubt they're hoping to do what Dallara are doing with Campos and transforming themselves into a design studio. It may be Lotus' - their actual name is supposedly "1Malaysia F1" - only choice.

Lotus is one of my favorite teams of all time, it was the team for which Fittipaldi, Senna and Piquet Sr raced. The Black JPS car was one of the most remarkable of all time. It was a very sad, sad moment when the team folded in 1994.

But this is a ripoff! To use such powerful name in vain is a heresy. I hope Lotus Cars sue the hell out of them. It is even more sadder since Sauber seems now on the path of being a future defunct team. Unfortunately, as Dieter Reckten said, BMW managed to screw a 35-years old team.

FIA said that there might be 28 teams next yar. Are we going to hav DNQs again? Or even perhaps DNPQs?

Captain Hammer wrote:Lola continued development of their car even after they lost out in the initial selection process. No doubt they're hoping to do what Dallara are doing with Campos and transforming themselves into a design studio. It may be Lotus' - their actual name is supposedly "1Malaysia F1" - only choice.

It may not even be a long-term thing, but certainly, if you want a 2010 car in a hurry, there's one that's available for sale at the right price.

I don't think Lotus cars will sue this team as it is in conjunction with Malaysia, where Proton is based and who own Lotus Cars...

And bring back Alex Yoong!!!!!!!

rffp wrote:FIA said that there might be 28 teams next yar. Are we going to hav DNQs again? Or even perhaps DNPQs?

Firstly I'm going to guess that you mean 28 drivers.

It sounds like they think everyone can make the race which would be a shame for us, however as I said before I really don't think Monaco has the facilities/space for 28 drivers so possibly DNQ's there and maybe at other street circuits too. I would welcome that.

Tealy wrote:

rffp wrote:FIA said that there might be 28 teams next yar. Are we going to hav DNQs again? Or even perhaps DNPQs?

Firstly I'm going to guess that you mean 28 drivers.

Right! The sight of 30 drivers trying to pre-qualify for 4 berths in proper qualification must be ridiculous.

Paul Hayes wrote:Hopefully we can wangle some decent coverage of them on BBC Radio Norfolk.

duplicate post - sorry

Having just read the article I noticed one "grey area".
[quote=THE FIA]The FIA also received an impressive application from the BMW Sauber team. However, given that BMW has announced it will withdraw its support in 2010, there are still uncertainties regarding the future ownership of the team.

Nevertheless, the FIA considers that BMW Sauber’s application is of high quality and would constitute a competitive participant in the championship. As such, it has awarded BMW Sauber the '14th place' in the championship meaning that it will be entitled to fill any vacancy that arises on the 2010 grid.[/quote]

If that is the case then why approve the Lotus F1 bid now?

Paul Hayes wrote:Hopefully we can wangle some decent coverage of them on BBC Radio Norfolk.

"The view from the back, with Alan Partridge"...

Wizzie wrote:Having just read the article I noticed one "grey area".

THE FIA wrote:The FIA also received an impressive application from the BMW Sauber team. However, given that BMW has announced it will withdraw its support in 2010, there are still uncertainties regarding the future ownership of the team.

Nevertheless, the FIA considers that BMW Sauber’s application is of high quality and would constitute a competitive participant in the championship. As such, it has awarded BMW Sauber the '14th place' in the championship meaning that it will be entitled to fill any vacancy that arises on the 2010 grid.

If that is the case then why approve the Lotus F1 bid now?

That's a good point, but it could be used as leverage when they consult the other teams to get the 14th team on the grid. I doubt team bosses would agree to it if the 14th team was a newcomer but the fact that it is BMW means that the other teams have working relationships with the people of BMW and may want them on the grid next year enough to agree to a 14th team.

Wizzie wrote:Having just read the article I noticed one "grey area".

THE FIA wrote:The FIA also received an impressive application from the BMW Sauber team. However, given that BMW has announced it will withdraw its support in 2010, there are still uncertainties regarding the future ownership of the team.

Nevertheless, the FIA considers that BMW Sauber’s application is of high quality and would constitute a competitive participant in the championship. As such, it has awarded BMW Sauber the '14th place' in the championship meaning that it will be entitled to fill any vacancy that arises on the 2010 grid.

If that is the case then why approve the Lotus F1 bid now?

Probably to give them time to develop a car. The Lotus bid looks like a going concern, which the BMW-Sauber bid isn't, although it looks promising. Giving them the 14th entry gives potential investors some assurance that they might be on the grid next year, while not actually compelling them to compete and potentially wasting an entry if they don't find a buyer.

Wizzie wrote:Having just read the article I noticed one "grey area".

THE FIA wrote:As such, it has awarded BMW Sauber the '14th place' in the championship meaning that it will be entitled to fill any vacancy that arises on the 2010 grid.

If that is the case then why approve the Lotus F1 bid now?

The 2010 sauber is probably much more developed then next year's 'Lotus' at this point in time, making them better suited as a reserve - though I can't see them finding a buyer without a guaranteed slot on the grid.

Tealy wrote:

Wizzie wrote:Having just read the article I noticed one "grey area".

THE FIA wrote:The FIA also received an impressive application from the BMW Sauber team. However, given that BMW has announced it will withdraw its support in 2010, there are still uncertainties regarding the future ownership of the team.

Nevertheless, the FIA considers that BMW Sauber’s application is of high quality and would constitute a competitive participant in the championship. As such, it has awarded BMW Sauber the '14th place' in the championship meaning that it will be entitled to fill any vacancy that arises on the 2010 grid.

If that is the case then why approve the Lotus F1 bid now?

That's a good point, but it could be used as leverage when they consult the other teams to get the 14th team on the grid. I doubt team bosses would agree to it if the 14th team was a newcomer but the fact that it is BMW means that the other teams have working relationships with the people of BMW and may want them on the grid next year enough to agree to a 14th team.

Because tere is no guarantee that BMW will actually materialise in their own right. They have a plan, but no financial backing.

I heard about Mike Gascoyne, but does Lotus have a timetable to develop a car for the opening race? Do they have a technical staff or a barely a skeleton crew? Do they have a decent car design or they will do like Lola did in 1997? Where will they be sited?
USGP may look like a contender for Reject Team status, but they are planning their entry since 2008. What about this Blasphemic team?

BTW, this has just hit the news:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78655

So, will FIA go ahead with a 14 teams championship?

rffp wrote:I heard about Mike Gascoyne, but does Lotus have a timetable to develop a car for the opening race? Do they have a technical staff or a barely a skeleton crew? Do they have a decent car design or they will do like Lola did in 1997? Where will they be sited?
USGP may look like a contender for Reject Team status, but they are planning their entry since 2008. What about this Blasphemic team?

It's funny you should mention Lola, because tey may be the answer: they don't have any customers, but they unveiled a 50% scale model of their would-be 2010 contender about two weeks ago. They seem to be trying to set themselves up as a design studio, like Dallara are doing for Campos. They may be Lotus' only answer, unless they've got a trick up their sleeve. So we may see a Lotus-Lola in 2010 ...

Captain Hammer wrote:

rffp wrote:I heard about Mike Gascoyne, but does Lotus have a timetable to develop a car for the opening race? Do they have a technical staff or a barely a skeleton crew? Do they have a decent car design or they will do like Lola did in 1997? Where will they be sited?
USGP may look like a contender for Reject Team status, but they are planning their entry since 2008. What about this Blasphemic team?

It's funny you should mention Lola, because tey may be the answer: they don't have any customers, but they unveiled a 50% scale model of their would-be 2010 contender about two weeks ago. They seem to be trying to set themselves up as a design studio, like Dallara are doing for Campos. They may be Lotus' only answer, unless they've got a trick up their sleeve. So we may see a Lotus-Lola in 2010 ...

Makes perfect sense. What does not make sense are the criteria that FIA is using to select the new teams.

rffp wrote:Lotus is one of my favorite teams of all time, it was the team for which Fittipaldi, Senna and Piquet Sr raced. The Black JPS car was one of the most remarkable of all time. It was a very sad, sad moment when the team folded in 1994.

But this is a ripoff! To use such powerful name in vain is a heresy. I hope Lotus Cars sue the hell out of them. It is even more sadder since Sauber seems now on the path of being a future defunct team. Unfortunately, as Dieter Reckten said, BMW managed to screw a 35-years old team.

FIA said that there might be 28 teams next yar. Are we going to hav DNQs again? Or even perhaps DNPQs?

By the early 90's though, Team Lotus was almost a completely different team with many ownership changes and mediocre results

Life w12 wrote:By the early 90's though, Team Lotus was almost a completely different team with many ownership changes and mediocre results

Looking at this angle, we can also say that the current McLaren is a completely different team from the Bruce McLaren Racing from the 60s. Ownership changes have occurred and will continue to occur, but the use of Lotus names now seems different. Even Mike Gascoyne stated that this is not the old Lotus team, but a new Lotus team. Anyway, I am nostalgic fan and do not like the use of such a strong name in a dubious effort that is being made by Proton & cia.

And the thud you heard was Colin Chapman rolling over in his grave. I have a feeling that the zombie Team Lotus/Malaysia F1 or whatever their calling themselves is definitely going to be the slowest car on the grid next year. Oh well at least Alex Yoong has a shot getting back in F1 now

Lotus will treat Alex Yoong just like Force India treated Karthikeyan. Seriously.

I think Mr. Chapman was doing a 360 as far back as the early 1990s, and by 1994 he was the only thing keeping the earth rotating when it got dire. But, legal wrangling's about the name of the team aside, there is potential there. Will be interesting to find out if they're another of the 'Cosworth' crew of new teams or have a previous or brand new engine supplier lined up, probably badged as a 'Proton' engine or similar.

As for BMW, i'm actually super-happy about this, because based on the last few races they have been on something of a resurgance. Bad luck with engines aside, they're vastly improved than earlier in the season, and they could be in great shape for 2010 if they are accepted as the 14th team. it would be a shame for the team to go down the spout in this way.

If Lotus Cars aren't going to sue, they may sell more cars but they'll be a lughing stock as this Lotus F1 team don't look much, with such little time they'll struggle desperately to be competitive.

Debaser wrote:If Lotus Cars aren't going to sue, they may sell more cars but they'll be a lughing stock as this Lotus F1 team don't look much, with such little time they'll struggle desperately to be competitive.

Yes, but surely then they'll be picking up where Pedro Lamy, Phillippe Adams, Éric Bernard and Alessandro Zanardi left off?

Everyone quickly forget Pacific who 'merged' with Lotus and were Pacific Team Lotus in 1995? I am quite looking forward to 'Lotus' coming back, although the F1 team and the car company were seperate companies as early as 1954... The F1 section is defunct although David Hunt (James Hunts brother) still owns the rights to the Lotus F1 name, although Proton own the car company so be interesting to see what happens there.

Lotus Cosworth has a nice ring to it I am looking forward to seeing it on the grid, hopefully they will continue the numbering scheme too and be in British racing green and not a blue or white colour...

Although no ones asked the question if the new Lotus team get zero points and pull out in the first year would they be a reject team?

Debaser wrote:If Lotus Cars aren't going to sue, they may sell more cars but they'll be a lughing stock as this Lotus F1 team don't look much, with such little time they'll struggle desperately to be competitive.

Why would Lotus Cars sue? Lotus are owned by Proton, and involved in the bid.

Back in April/May, when this was the 'Litespeed' bid, they got the "Team Lotus" name off a relative of James Hunt (who for some reason owned the rights to it), and Lotus Cars/Proton were talking about suing.
In the intervening time, however, they seem to have brought them onboard instead.

SuperAguri wrote:Although no ones asked the question if the new Lotus team get zero points and pull out in the first year would they be a reject team?

That's something I'm wondering about, along with the question: If Lola were to make a return and actually manage to score enough points to invalidate them as a reject team, would they be counted as a separate entry from Mastercard Lola for the purposes of rejectdom? Because it would be hilarious and completely absurd if this Lola team managed to remove one of the most farcical entries in the annals of rejectdom by actually being good this time around.

I'm going to guess that they would be considered separate entries, though.

Considering the company almost went bankrupt, had a change of owner, and it's been over 10 years with numerous rule changes, I reckon it's a safe bet to say they'd class as being a separate entity.

Or, we berate Enoch and Jamie for jumping the gun and writing a reject profile far too early, without giving them a chance to redeem themselves!

On that Note, Deletraz and Yoong in a Lola-Lotus next year?

How about Bruno Senna for Lotus. 22 years on and Senna/Lotus still has a nice ring to it...

noisebox wrote:How about Bruno Senna for Lotus. 22 years on and Senna/Lotus still has a nice ring to it...

Hopefully, Bruno will find a better car to make his debut.

SuperAguri wrote:I am looking forward to seeing it on the grid, hopefully they will continue the numbering scheme too and be in British racing green and not a blue or white colour...

Hmmmmmmm, well...

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/09/15/1 ... heme-2010/

How about this for a team?

Lotus-Renault F1 Team
25. Bruno Senna

Wouldnt that be eerie? Bruno driving the #25 Lotus-Renault, 25 years after Ayrton drove a Lotus-Renault?

Paul Hayes wrote:

SuperAguri wrote:I am looking forward to seeing it on the grid, hopefully they will continue the numbering scheme too and be in British racing green and not a blue or white colour...

Hmmmmmmm, well...

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/09/15/1 ... heme-2010/

Looks more like a Rainbow then an F1 car.

Paul Hayes wrote:

SuperAguri wrote:I am looking forward to seeing it on the grid, hopefully they will continue the numbering scheme too and be in British racing green and not a blue or white colour...

Hmmmmmmm, well...

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/09/15/1 ... heme-2010/

Reject paint scheme.

Paul Hayes wrote:

SuperAguri wrote:I am looking forward to seeing it on the grid, hopefully they will continue the numbering scheme too and be in British racing green and not a blue or white colour...

Hmmmmmmm, well...

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/09/15/1 ... heme-2010/

It's very... distinctive.

Dear lord, I think I'm going to vomit.

Although, if they show up next year with that paint scheme, it's almost going to be a refuge in audacity - you'll be too busy wondering what they're smoking to care about their performance