2012 Japanese Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 01 Oct 2012, 19:08

I think it's time to open the topic.

Martin Brundle tweeted that "Poor old @JensonButton In the year of the great gearbox plague he'll take 5 place grid drop in Suzuka. At least he can overtake/barge there"

Without the mid-season slump, McLaren would have had the best car all season long, yet they are behind the 8-ball again. Now it's starting to become 2005: best car on the grid, suffering from penalties or retirements...

Either they should do something with the gearbox penalties, or give a fixed number of times (let's say 3 - that should be okay for anyone) that one can swap to another gearbox without getting penalized while having not completed the life span of that gearbox.

Post by **Ataxia** » 01 Oct 2012, 19:23

I agree, there's just no leeway with gearboxes at all. They must bring back at least the one-change 'joker' for next season.

I'm looking forward to this race; I always enjoy races at Suzuka and I'm hoping we'll get a good show again.

I assume Lotus will be running the DDRS this time?

Post by **Londoner** » 01 Oct 2012, 19:27

Can we have a list of drivers who have NOT had a gearbox penalty this year? I suspect it'll be in single figures, just highlighting how stupid this rule is. :evil:

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 01 Oct 2012, 19:59

Gearbox-change penalties this year:

3: Maldonado
2: Perez, Webber, Rosberg
1: Räikkönen, Hamilton, Schumacher, Hülkenberg, Pic, Grosjean, Di Resta, Senna, De La Rosa, Button

19 penalties to 14 drivers

Weekends without a single gearbox-penalty: 3 out of 15 (Barcelona, Valencia, Hungaroring)

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 01 Oct 2012, 20:04

I suppose some of these are kind of tactical changes after bad qualifyings, for example after being dropped out in Q1 (Schumacher in Bahrain)

Three teams with no gearbox penalties so far: Ferrari, Toro Rosso and Caterham.

Post by **mario** » 01 Oct 2012, 20:06

Shizuka wrote:I think it's time to open the topic.

Martin Brundle tweeted that "Poor old @JensonButton In the year of the great gearbox plague he'll take 5 place grid drop in Suzuka. At least he can overtake/barge there"

Without the mid-season slump, McLaren would have had the best car all season long, yet they are behind the 8-ball again. Now it's starting to become 2005: best car on the grid, suffering from penalties or retirements...

Either they should do something with the gearbox penalties, or give a fixed number of times (let's say 3 - that should be okay for anyone) that one can swap to another gearbox without getting penalized while having not completed the life span of that gearbox.

It sounds as if McLaren were lucky not to have a double DNF in Singapore, since it turns out that Button's car had the same problem as Hamilton's did (hence why they are changing it ahead of this weekend). Either way, McLaren have thrown away fistfuls of points with the various problems they have had this year and seem to keep finding ways of making mistakes.

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:I agree, there's just no leeway with gearboxes at all. They must bring back at least the one-change 'joker' for next season.

I'm looking forward to this race; I always enjoy races at Suzuka and I'm hoping we'll get a good show again.

I assume Lotus will be running the DDRS this time?

Lotus should be testing their DDRS system in the free practise sessions, and, if the results from that session are positive, they intend to use it for the rest of the weekend.

East Londoner wrote:Can we have a list of drivers who have NOT had a gearbox penalty this year? I suspect it'll be in single figures, just highlighting how stupid this rule is.

Since you asked, here is the list of drivers who have not either had a gearbox penalty this year or are, at time of writing, due to receive a penalty in Japan:
Alonso
Massa
Vettel
Kobayashi
Vergne
Ricciardo
Glock
Kovalainen
Petrov
Karthikeyan

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 01 Oct 2012, 21:45

This is Karthikeyen's race....

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 01 Oct 2012, 22:02

WeirdKerr wrote:This is Karthikeyen's race....

To take the all-time lead in the Johnny Claes award?

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 01 Oct 2012, 22:07

WaffleCat wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:This is Karthikeyen's race....

To take the all-time lead in the Johnny Claes award?

To be honest, I don't think so - Karthikeyan was always rather decent at Suzuka and given that he has outqualified De La Rosa the last two races there is a distinct chance of this series continuing and that performance carrying over to race day.

solarcold · Post by **solarcold** » 02 Oct 2012, 07:11

Will this be HRT race? Hope so, though don't really believe...

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 03 Oct 2012, 18:07

HI people! This Sunday I´m in Swansea. Just wanted to ask if this race is broadcasted on BBC or Sky Sports, to know my chances of watching the race basically (or if anybody knows a place where I can watch the GP live in Swansea is welcome anyway, although I don´t really know if there´ll be any places open so early :lol:

)

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 03 Oct 2012, 18:11

Aerond wrote:HI people! This Sunday I´m in Swansea. Just wanted to ask if this race is broadcasted on BBC or Sky Sports, to know my chances of watching the race basically (or if anybody knows a place where I can watch the GP live in Swansea is welcome anyway, although I don´t really know if there´ll be any places open so early )

It's definately on Sky, Im not sure about the Beeb

tc3j3r · Post by **tc3j3r** » 03 Oct 2012, 18:18

Aerond wrote:HI people! This Sunday I´m in Swansea. Just wanted to ask if this race is broadcasted on BBC or Sky Sports, to know my chances of watching the race basically (or if anybody knows a place where I can watch the GP live in Swansea is welcome anyway, although I don´t really know if there´ll be any places open so early )

Live on Sky only. highlights on BBC at 2pm.

Post by **mario** » 04 Oct 2012, 15:02

Little bit of interesting news in Autosport, with the FIA modifying the front wing load tests amid complaints that some of the teams have been getting around the tests.

It appears that the main targets of the new test - which has moved the loading point a further 150mm further out from the centreline (previously set at 795mm from the car centre line) - are McLaren and Red Bull, both of whom were accused of having front wings that rotated backwards at high speed to reduce their angle of attack, giving them a slight increase in straight line speed.
Now, none of the teams had any problems passing the new tests during the most recent scruitineering session according to Autosport, although it is unclear whether any of them chose to modify their front wing designs before the new tests given that they were notified in advance.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103056

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 04 Oct 2012, 21:41

mario wrote:Little bit of interesting news in Autosport, with the FIA modifying the front wing load tests amid complaints that some of the teams have been getting around the tests.

It appears that the main targets of the new test - which has moved the loading point a further 150mm further out from the centreline (previously set at 795mm from the car centre line) - are McLaren and Red Bull, both of whom were accused of having front wings that rotated backwards at high speed to reduce their angle of attack, giving them a slight increase in straight line speed.
Now, none of the teams had any problems passing the new tests during the most recent scruitineering session according to Autosport, although it is unclear whether any of them chose to modify their front wing designs before the new tests given that they were notified in advance.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103056

If Red Bull and Mclaren are forced to change your front wing design, its clear that its a move by FIA for secure Alonso's title.

But for other side, this will be good for the rest of the season. Midfield teams can close the gap and catch some podiums.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 05 Oct 2012, 05:09

In all my years of watching F1, I'm fairly certain that's the first time someone's ever hit the wall at that spot. Well done Paul :lol:

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 05 Oct 2012, 07:07

Wizzie wrote:In all my years of watching F1, I'm fairly certain that's the first time someone's ever hit the wall at that spot. Well done Paul

Not much afterwards you got a second.

Post by **Londoner** » 05 Oct 2012, 07:22

Dj_bereta wrote:
mario wrote:Little bit of interesting news in Autosport, with the FIA modifying the front wing load tests amid complaints that some of the teams have been getting around the tests.

It appears that the main targets of the new test - which has moved the loading point a further 150mm further out from the centreline (previously set at 795mm from the car centre line) - are McLaren and Red Bull, both of whom were accused of having front wings that rotated backwards at high speed to reduce their angle of attack, giving them a slight increase in straight line speed.
Now, none of the teams had any problems passing the new tests during the most recent scruitineering session according to Autosport, although it is unclear whether any of them chose to modify their front wing designs before the new tests given that they were notified in advance.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103056

If Red Bull and Mclaren are forced to change your front wing design, its clear that its a move by FIA for secure Alonso's title.

Blimey, there's still people who believe Ferrari and the FIA are working together? That's so 2002 it's unbelievable. :roll:

And Bad Luck Schumacher was in the wars yet again, putting it into the wall at Spoon curve of all places! :lol:

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 05 Oct 2012, 09:00

I seem to remember a Benetton in 2000 going off the track at Spoon and coming back to the track through a pretty long escape route. Admitedly, at least he didn't put it into the wall :lol:

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 05 Oct 2012, 09:42

>Bottas last of all the established teams in FP1
>Senna actually in the top 10 for once in FP2

Say what you want about Bruno, he deserves to be in F1 a lot more than that talentless Finnish hack

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 05 Oct 2012, 09:46

eurobrun wrote:>Bottas last of all the established teams in FP1
>Senna actually in the top 10 for once in FP2

Say what you want about Bruno, he deserves to be in F1 a lot more than that talentless Finnish hack

Depends if that Finnish hack has a lot of Finnish cash.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 05 Oct 2012, 09:52

Cynon wrote:
eurobrun wrote:>Bottas last of all the established teams in FP1
>Senna actually in the top 10 for once in FP2

Say what you want about Bruno, he deserves to be in F1 a lot more than that talentless Finnish hack

Depends if that Finnish hack has a lot of Finnish cash.

Not to my knowledge, but Williams seem to be obsessed with him. Then again, they do have a history of making stupid driver choices recently

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 05 Oct 2012, 09:55

eurobrun wrote:
Cynon wrote:
eurobrun wrote:>Bottas last of all the established teams in FP1
>Senna actually in the top 10 for once in FP2

Say what you want about Bruno, he deserves to be in F1 a lot more than that talentless Finnish hack

Depends if that Finnish hack has a lot of Finnish cash.

Not to my knowledge, but Williams seem to be obsessed with him. Then again, they do have a history of making stupid driver choices recently

Aside from Maldolan and Barrichello (he won with the Brawn the year before... didn't seem like a bad idea and to be fair wasn't an awful choice...), they flubbed with Senna, Hulkenberg, and Nakajima (though I think Toyota picked him for them).

... yeeeah.

So when does Susie Wolff take over the other Williams drive? Because that wouldn't be a disaster waiting to happen now would it? :mrgreen:

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 05 Oct 2012, 10:03

Cynon wrote:So when does Susie Wolff take over the other Williams drive? Because that wouldn't be a disaster waiting to happen now would it?

And yet there is still at least one forum member on here who would like to see her be given a chance in the car...

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 05 Oct 2012, 10:07

dr-baker wrote:
Cynon wrote:So when does Susie Wolff take over the other Williams drive? Because that wouldn't be a disaster waiting to happen now would it?

And yet there is still at least one forum member on here who would like to see her be given a chance in the car...

Well, I personally want to see the Wolff-Bottas pairing because one half of Williams clearly loves Bottas, and the other half of the ownership clearly loves Wolff.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 05 Oct 2012, 10:20

Cynon wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
Cynon wrote:So when does Susie Wolff take over the other Williams drive? Because that wouldn't be a disaster waiting to happen now would it?

And yet there is still at least one forum member on here who would like to see her be given a chance in the car...

Well, I personally want to see the Wolff-Bottas pairing because one half of Williams clearly loves Bottas, and the other half of the ownership clearly loves Wolff.

Way to have Williams battling with HRT

Post by **mario** » 05 Oct 2012, 12:57

East Londoner wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:
mario wrote:Little bit of interesting news in Autosport, with the FIA modifying the front wing load tests amid complaints that some of the teams have been getting around the tests.

It appears that the main targets of the new test - which has moved the loading point a further 150mm further out from the centreline (previously set at 795mm from the car centre line) - are McLaren and Red Bull, both of whom were accused of having front wings that rotated backwards at high speed to reduce their angle of attack, giving them a slight increase in straight line speed.
Now, none of the teams had any problems passing the new tests during the most recent scruitineering session according to Autosport, although it is unclear whether any of them chose to modify their front wing designs before the new tests given that they were notified in advance.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103056

If Red Bull and Mclaren are forced to change your front wing design, its clear that its a move by FIA for secure Alonso's title.

Blimey, there's still people who believe Ferrari and the FIA are working together? That's so 2002 it's unbelievable.

And Bad Luck Schumacher was in the wars yet again, putting it into the wall at Spoon curve of all places!

It isn't exactly as if this is a new story either - McLaren were reputedly pulling this sort of trick since mid 2011 (Charlie Whiting raised the issue last year on his own initiative after footage from the nosecone cameras showed the front wing deflecting in an unusual way).
Whilst AMuS claimed it was Ferrari that raised the issue with the FIA this time (although no other news source has verified that claim), in this case it would seem that the FIA is acting fairly - the design of the connection may violate the ruling that aero components must be rigidly fixed to the car, whilst the designs that McLaren has and Red Bull were developing would have allowed the central section of the wing to rotate, potentially breaching a regulation that stipulates that section must remain parallel to the ground.

On another note, Lotus have announced that they are ditching their DDRS again after they encountered calibration issues in FP1, whilst Kimi was also complaining that the new rear wing was making it difficult to set his car up properly. At this rate, you have to wonder whether Lotus can ever get this device to work properly - they've already had to delay implementation several times this year due to calibration issues. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103099

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] · Post by **Sunshine_Baby_[IT]** » 05 Oct 2012, 17:25

eurobrun wrote:>Bottas last of all the established teams in FP1
>Senna actually in the top 10 for once in FP2

Say what you want about Bruno, he deserves to be in F1 a lot more than that talentless Finnish hack

I think that Senna deserves to stay. He has clearly shown he's not as fast as Maldonado is, but except Spanish grand prix when Maldonado won, I think that Senna's results were not so worst then the ones of his team mate (Pastor finished in the points just when he won and in only another race).

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 05 Oct 2012, 23:41

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] wrote:
eurobrun wrote:>Bottas last of all the established teams in FP1
>Senna actually in the top 10 for once in FP2

Say what you want about Bruno, he deserves to be in F1 a lot more than that talentless Finnish hack

I think that Senna deserves to stay. He has clearly shown he's not as fast as Maldonado is, but except Spanish grand prix when Maldonado won, I think that Senna's results were not so worst then the ones of his team mate (Pastor finished in the points just when he won and in only another race).

I agree to an extent, sacking Senna for Bottas would be a really stupid thing to do considering the circumstances.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 06 Oct 2012, 02:52

Two days, two crashed Force Indias. This time, Hulkenberg's gone off at Degner

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 06 Oct 2012, 05:22

Marussias and a HRT outqualifiy a Caterham!

Post by **Londoner** » 06 Oct 2012, 05:23

Haha, Senna is the fall guy in Q1. Get Bottas in that car ASAP. And some guaranteed points in Predicament Predictions as well. :twisted:

EDIT: Man the hell up Bruno. No one else was complaining about the level of traffic. Where was Vergne supposed to go? :roll:

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 06 Oct 2012, 05:24

Man, that was a strange call from Merc to run the hards for Michael at the end. And it came within a tenth of being a really daft call.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 06 Oct 2012, 05:26

East Londoner wrote:Get Bottas in that car ASAP.

So get someone even worse. Riiight

:roll:

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 06 Oct 2012, 05:26

East Londoner wrote:Haha, Senna is the fall guy in Q1. Get Bottas in that car ASAP. And some guaranteed points in Predicament Predictions as well.

EDIT: Man the hell up Bruno. No one else was complaining about the level of traffic. Where was Vergne supposed to go?

To be fair to Bruno, Vergne was parked in a really awkward place but the gesticulating from the Brazilian achieved a grand total of sod all :lol:

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 06 Oct 2012, 05:27

Bruno Senna held up by GenEric Blur (Vergne)
Michael Schumacher pulling an amazing lap out of the bag
Petrov needs to make sure the door won't hit him on the way out.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 06 Oct 2012, 05:30

eurobrun wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Get Bottas in that car ASAP.

So get someone even worse. Riiight

We're at F1 Rejects, the prospect of a crap driver waiting for their chance to fail should not disappoint anyone here.

Post by **Londoner** » 06 Oct 2012, 05:34

Oh god, 1:31:501 from Vettel. VETTELPOLELOL?

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 06 Oct 2012, 05:36

Cynon wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Get Bottas in that car ASAP.

So get someone even worse. Riiight

We're at F1 Rejects, the prospect of a crap driver waiting for their chance to fail should not disappoint anyone here.

Good point I guess, but too many people have delusions of him being the next big thing.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 06 Oct 2012, 05:39

eurobrun wrote:
Cynon wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
So get someone even worse. Riiight

We're at F1 Rejects, the prospect of a crap driver waiting for their chance to fail should not disappoint anyone here.

Good point I guess, but too many people have delusions of him being the next big thing.

In the same way that you have delusions that Reynolds is the anti-Christ when in reality he made the same choice that any other person in the known universe would have done? :lol: