Grand Prix Rejects

Seeing as it's less than a week away, I thought I'd start this up...

Now we'll see if any form carries over from Australia. Will Red Bull continue to lose ground in the race? Will Lotus still be quick? Will McLaren manage to gain some ground? We'll find out.

We should also finally get to find out what Sauber's race pace is like as long as Hulkenberg starts the race, as Gutierrez was so anonymous it's currently hard to get a good picture of where they might be...

I just hope that saturday morning doesn't repeat itself. But the chances for that are quite high, considering that Bernie still thinks that racing in Malaysia in the afternoon is a good idea.

Ataxia [BacLettNinj] wrote:Seeing as it's less than a week away, I thought I'd start this up...

Now we'll see if any form carries over from Australia. Will Red Bull continue to lose ground in the race? Will Lotus still be quick? Will McLaren manage to gain some ground? We'll find out.

We should also finally get to find out what Sauber's race pace is like as long as Hulkenberg starts the race, as Gutierrez was so anonymous it's currently hard to get a good picture of where they might be...

Mr Gutierrez Gutierrez is still a rookie and only done his first race, but I did find his anonymous display somewhat worrying for Sauber.

DanielPT wrote:Mr Gutierrez Gutierrez is still a rookie and only done his first race, but I did find his anonymous display somewhat worrying for Sauber.

Well he did say a few weeks ago wanted a cautious debut, so I guess he at least achieved his goal!

The better question is, will Marussia keep up their pace and challenge Williams and potentially Toro Rosso? I sure hope so, because it's making the lower-midfield that much more interesting.

Syzygy wrote:The better question is, will Marussia keep up their pace and challenge Williams and potentially Toro Rosso? I sure hope so, because it's making the lower-midfield that much more interesting.

I'm not so sure, there were times towards the latter stages of the race that Bianchi was within 15 seconds of Bottas/Ricciardo, but he stopped fairly late on for another set of tyres, which dropped him down to about 30 seconds back. I think it's probably still a bit too much to ask at this stage, but you have to say that has to be getting on to the closest any of the 2010 new teams have ever come to the established runners towards the end of a race that wasn't affected by a safety car or other stoppage.

Speaking of Alex Yoong ...

I do hope he gets to do the podium interviews!

eytl wrote:Speaking of Alex Yoong ...

I do hope he gets to do the podium interviews!

In Singapore,and technically most of Asia(except for Japan I guess),Yoong is known to be playing the 'expert driver pundit' role on Star Sports' coverage of the race alongside Karun Chandok. How's that for a rejectful pundit team!

For Sepang,I think Yoong will be doing pitlane reporting for Star Sports,so there is a chance that he gets to be on podium interviews!

Only one DRS zone in Malaysia, not two as originally planned. I think it's a good decision.

Ed24 wrote:

DanielPT wrote:Mr Gutierrez Gutierrez is still a rookie and only done his first race, but I did find his anonymous display somewhat worrying for Sauber.

Well he did say a few weeks ago wanted a cautious debut, so I guess he at least achieved his goal!

Sauber have also said that Gutierrez will be getting a new chassis for Malaysia and the old one is being sent back to the factory for inspection, which suggests that he might have damaged the original one he used in Melbourne when he crashed out in qualifying (he did hit the wall quite hard).

mario wrote:

Ed24 wrote:

DanielPT wrote:Mr Gutierrez Gutierrez is still a rookie and only done his first race, but I did find his anonymous display somewhat worrying for Sauber.

Well he did say a few weeks ago wanted a cautious debut, so I guess he at least achieved his goal!

Sauber have also said that Gutierrez will be getting a new chassis for Malaysia and the old one is being sent back to the factory for inspection, which suggests that he might have damaged the original one he used in Melbourne when he crashed out in qualifying (he did hit the wall quite hard).

That's odd, because I've just read that Hulkenberg has a new chassis for Malaysia, on account of them checking the fuel system that failed.

I'm starting to get the sneaking suspicion that Mercedes might struggle slightly this weekend. Now, here me out on this one but I think there's some logic behind this:

Back in Australia, virtually the entire grid was suffering on the supersofts as well all know because of graining caused by the low temperatures. However, Mercedes were able to do considerably more laps than anyone else on the supersofts (from memory, Hamilton and Rosberg did 13 and 14 laps on them respectively, plus a qualy run each on those sets), which suggests that they were able to get considerably more temperature than anyone else (I recall that someone on the Ten pre-race coverage mention Mercedes were able to heat the tyres up as much as 20 degrees more than anyone else) and therefore avoid many of the problems with the supersofts that other teams were having. Now, Malaysia tends to be one of the hottest and most humid races all year, which means tyre temperature for the other teams won't be an issue, but Mercedes might end up with the opposite problem that they'll be overheating the tyres in the Malaysian weather.

Now watch as my theory goes out the window and Merc dominate the entire weekend.

Wizzie wrote:I
Now watch as my theory goes out the window and Merc dominate the entire weekend.

Wasnt MSC 3rd on the grid last year before fading away? Sounds promising.

mario wrote:

Ed24 wrote:

DanielPT wrote:Mr Gutierrez Gutierrez is still a rookie and only done his first race, but I did find his anonymous display somewhat worrying for Sauber.

Well he did say a few weeks ago wanted a cautious debut, so I guess he at least achieved his goal!

Sauber have also said that Gutierrez will be getting a new chassis for Malaysia and the old one is being sent back to the factory for inspection, which suggests that he might have damaged the original one he used in Melbourne when he crashed out in qualifying (he did hit the wall quite hard).

East Londoner wrote:That's odd, because I've just read that Hulkenberg has a new chassis for Malaysia, on account of them checking the fuel system that failed.

Sorry, it is indeed Hulkenberg, not Gutierrez, that is getting the new chassis - the report that I'd read must have got its lines crossed and put the wrong driver name by mistake.

Wizzie wrote:I'm starting to get the sneaking suspicion that Mercedes might struggle slightly this weekend. Now, here me out on this one but I think there's some logic behind this:

Back in Australia, virtually the entire grid was suffering on the supersofts as well all know because of graining caused by the low temperatures. However, Mercedes were able to do considerably more laps than anyone else on the supersofts (from memory, Hamilton and Rosberg did 13 and 14 laps on them respectively, plus a qualy run each on those sets), which suggests that they were able to get considerably more temperature than anyone else (I recall that someone on the Ten pre-race coverage mention Mercedes were able to heat the tyres up as much as 20 degrees more than anyone else) and therefore avoid many of the problems with the supersofts that other teams were having. Now, Malaysia tends to be one of the hottest and most humid races all year, which means tyre temperature for the other teams won't be an issue, but Mercedes might end up with the opposite problem that they'll be overheating the tyres in the Malaysian weather.

Now watch as my theory goes out the window and Merc dominate the entire weekend.

There have been some wondering whether that was also the case back in Barcelona during pre-season testing when Mercedes seemed to be very competitive in the relatively cool conditions there. That said, they seemed to struggle to get the medium tyres to work that well when they pitted, so perhaps it was just the case that their set up happened to work better with the super soft compound rather than the medium tyres?

That said, there are a few rumours that Mercedes may be bringing in a reasonably sizeable upgrade package for Malaysia in an attempt to boost their pace and endear themselves to their sponsors, Petronas. Whether that is the case is another matter, though...

Wizzie wrote:I'm starting to get the sneaking suspicion that Mercedes might struggle slightly this weekend. Now, here me out on this one but I think there's some logic behind this:

Back in Australia, virtually the entire grid was suffering on the supersofts as well all know because of graining caused by the low temperatures. However, Mercedes were able to do considerably more laps than anyone else on the supersofts (from memory, Hamilton and Rosberg did 13 and 14 laps on them respectively, plus a qualy run each on those sets), which suggests that they were able to get considerably more temperature than anyone else (I recall that someone on the Ten pre-race coverage mention Mercedes were able to heat the tyres up as much as 20 degrees more than anyone else) and therefore avoid many of the problems with the supersofts that other teams were having. Now, Malaysia tends to be one of the hottest and most humid races all year, which means tyre temperature for the other teams won't be an issue, but Mercedes might end up with the opposite problem that they'll be overheating the tyres in the Malaysian weather.

Now watch as my theory goes out the window and Merc dominate the entire weekend.

It's not a bad theory, but I remember mario pointing out the tyre allocation for Malaysia is quite different from what we had in Australia. In any case, if your suggestion is that the tyre lottery might be in full swing, I wouldn't necessarily disagree.

CoopsII wrote:

Wizzie wrote:I
Now watch as my theory goes out the window and Merc dominate the entire weekend.

Wasnt MSC 3rd on the grid last year before fading away? Sounds promising.

He was, with only 0.023 off Button in second.

pi314159 wrote:Only one DRS zone in Malaysia, not two as originally planned. I think it's a good decision.

It now looks as if there are going to be two DRS zones in Malaysia after all, with the two zones on the back straight and the start/finish straight. http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/20/d ... es-sepang/

mario wrote:

pi314159 wrote:Only one DRS zone in Malaysia, not two as originally planned. I think it's a good decision.

It now looks as if there are going to be two DRS zones in Malaysia after all, with the two zones on the back straight and the start/finish straight. http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/20/d ... es-sepang/

I expect then for the two DRS zones to cancel each other out. Unless tyre wear is severe for the front driver which in that case the overtake would happen anyway.

DanielPT wrote:

mario wrote:

pi314159 wrote:Only one DRS zone in Malaysia, not two as originally planned. I think it's a good decision.

It now looks as if there are going to be two DRS zones in Malaysia after all, with the two zones on the back straight and the start/finish straight. http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/20/d ... es-sepang/

I expect then for the two DRS zones to cancel each other out. Unless tyre wear is severe for the front driver which in that case the overtake would happen anyway.

A few have wondered whether you might even see some drivers choosing not to use the DRS on the back straight in case it puts them at a disadvantage on the next straight, which would be rather counter productive. I would assume that this is compensation from the FIA for restricting DRS use around the rest of the circuit in qualifying, but it doesn't seem to make much sense in terms of the likely impact on the race itself.

mario wrote:A few have wondered whether you might even see some drivers choosing not to use the DRS on the back straight in case it puts them at a disadvantage on the next straight, which would be rather counter productive. I would assume that this is compensation from the FIA for restricting DRS use around the rest of the circuit in qualifying, but it doesn't seem to make much sense in terms of the likely impact on the race itself.

It doesn't really surprises me. FIA have a proven record of daft decisions DRS wise. I just expected them, after the coupled DRS zones in Abu Dhabi that they had learned with their mistakes. Apparently not.

Am I the only person who calls the second Sauber driver Guti?

I feel like we're yet to see Sauber's true pace, their clear number one driver hasn't had a crack at a race yet, and might give the Force Indias a run for their money this weekend. Then again, the new chassis might be rubbish and they end up in the no-mans land between McLaren and Toro Rosso.

That is one of the three key themes I'm looking forwards to this weekend; the other two being whether Lotus can continue to beat Red Bull and Ferrari through having a kinder and more efficient car despite less raw pace, and McLaren's reaction to their Melbourne disaster. Will they pull something out of the bag or continue to be farcically bad?

Stramala [kostas22] wrote:...McLaren's reaction to their Melbourne disaster. Will they pull something out of the bag or continue to be farcically bad?

I'd bet on the latter.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

Stramala [kostas22] wrote:...McLaren's reaction to their Melbourne disaster. Will they pull something out of the bag or continue to be farcically bad?

I'd bet on the latter.

A would I. McLaren aren't magically going to drop several tenets and neither Button nor Perez are drivers that can drive around a problematic car. However, I do expect to see some improvement, probably in the form of a double points finish. After all, Alonso won last year with that monstrosity of a Ferrari.

Hound55 wrote:

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

Stramala [kostas22] wrote:...McLaren's reaction to their Melbourne disaster. Will they pull something out of the bag or continue to be farcically bad?

I'd bet on the latter.

A would I. McLaren aren't magically going to drop several tenets and neither Button nor Perez are drivers that can drive around a problematic car. However, I do expect to see some improvement, probably in the form of a double points finish. After all, Alonso won last year with that monstrosity of a Ferrari.

They will have to bet on a wet race then. If its bone dry Vettel is going to walk it

rachel1990 wrote:

Hound55 wrote:

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I'd bet on the latter.

A would I. McLaren aren't magically going to drop several tenets and neither Button nor Perez are drivers that can drive around a problematic car. However, I do expect to see some improvement, probably in the form of a double points finish. After all, Alonso won last year with that monstrosity of a Ferrari.

They will have to bet on a wet race then. If its bone dry Vettel is going to walk it

I don't think so, because I feel Australia might have been a true indicator of Red Bull's race pace.

East Londoner wrote:

rachel1990 wrote:
They will have to bet on a wet race then. If its bone dry Vettel is going to walk it

I don't think so, because I feel Australia might have been a true indicator of Red Bull's race pace.

I have read somewhere that it is suspected the Red Bull tyres were operating outside the optimum window. It is believed that slightly cooler conditions might have had a part in it. Thing is, in pre-season testing, it was colder and still Red Bull managed some good times with them in longer runs, so it is possible that this year, without some kind of trick to generate tons of downforce, their car might have become too hard on its tyres. If I remember correctly from the previous Pirelli years, Red Bull wasn't known to be the best at tyre management. They just had plenty of pace in it. It can be that you are still proven right. I hope so.

Hound55 wrote:

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

Stramala [kostas22] wrote:...McLaren's reaction to their Melbourne disaster. Will they pull something out of the bag or continue to be farcically bad?

I'd bet on the latter.

A would I. McLaren aren't magically going to drop several tenets and neither Button nor Perez are drivers that can drive around a problematic car. However, I do expect to see some improvement, probably in the form of a double points finish. After all, Alonso won last year with that monstrosity of a Ferrari.

The accumulation of additional information from Melbourne should help the team get a bit closer to the front, but you would suspect that they are more likely to be in the lower than upper half of the top 10 (the team are worried that they are likely to struggle to make it into the points again judging by some of Button's fairly pessimistic comments post Melbourne). Even with their level of resources it took several races for Ferrari to really get their suspension set up working correctly, and by the sounds of things the problems with McLaren's car might go beyond just the suspension set up.
Rain might help the team merely through offering them more strategy options (Button in particular might hope to gain simply through judging the transition from wet to dry conditions better than his rivals), but even then it might help some of their rivals more than them - Mercedes might be happier with a wet race given Rosberg's strong performance in Melbourne and the number of miles that both Rosberg and Hamilton racked up in the wetter pre-season tests.

DanielPT wrote:

East Londoner wrote:

rachel1990 wrote:
They will have to bet on a wet race then. If its bone dry Vettel is going to walk it

I don't think so, because I feel Australia might have been a true indicator of Red Bull's race pace.

I have read somewhere that it is suspected the Red Bull tyres were operating outside the optimum window. It is believed that slightly cooler conditions might have had a part in it. Thing is, in pre-season testing, it was colder and still Red Bull managed some good times with them in longer runs, so it is possible that this year, without some kind of trick to generate tons of downforce, their car might have become too hard on its tyres. If I remember correctly from the previous Pirelli years, Red Bull wasn't known to be the best at tyre management. They just had plenty of pace in it. It can be that you are still proven right. I hope so.

They did seem to be a little weaker than some teams, that is true - generally, it was thought that Ferrari and Lotus had slightly better wear characteristics in 2012 if they managed to get their tyres into the right operating window, but the price they paid for that was relatively poor pace over a single lap in qualifying. However, we'll have to see whether that trend continues in the hotter conditions in Malaysia - it is expected that they should favour Red Bull, and potentially Lotus too (there was a very strong correlation between Lotus's competitiveness and increasing ambient temperatures in 2012), but if Red Bull do still struggle a bit with high tyre wear, then Lotus and Ferrari might still be the stronger outfits in race trim.

CoopsII wrote:

Wizzie wrote:I
Now watch as my theory goes out the window and Merc dominate the entire weekend.

Wasnt MSC 3rd on the grid last year before fading away? Sounds promising.

I wouldn't call being spun around by Grosjean "fading away".

I may be bold, but if it rains, McLaren could surprise everyone. After qualifying in Australia last year, if you said Alonso would win in Malaysia, everyone would've laughed at you.

andrew2209 wrote:

CoopsII wrote:

Wizzie wrote:I
Now watch as my theory goes out the window and Merc dominate the entire weekend.

Wasnt MSC 3rd on the grid last year before fading away? Sounds promising.

I wouldn't call being spun around by Grosjean "fading away".

I may be bold, but if it rains, McLaren could surprise everyone. After qualifying in Australia last year, if you said Alonso would win in Malaysia, everyone would've laughed at you.

Yeah, but Alonso is also a much better driver than Button and can cope with a flawed car much easier. Alonso might be able to win with this year's McLaren. Button and Perez can't, at least, not without significant upgrades. And this is coming from a fan of those two.

Glock for a podium finish!...............oh wait.

Jocke1 wrote:Glock for a podium finish!...............oh wait.

In the style of Gwyilim James, #ThisIsHRT'sRace!....oh wait

Not sure if this is the technically the right thread but I just read this anecdote from Murray Walker regarding the '99 Malaysian GP which was new to me and made me chuckle :-

"It was the penultimate race of that season and it was marked by a spectacular comeback from Michael Schumacher, who had been out since breaking his leg in a crash on the very first lap of the British Grand Prix in July.

Schumacher had not yet won a world championship for Ferrari and the summer was full of rumours that he did not want to return to racing that season because it might mean helping team-mate Eddie Irvine win the title. That, it was said, was not what the German wanted because he saw himself as the man who would break a 20-year championship drought for Ferrari.

Whether that was true or not, in the end, he had to come back. Ferrari president Luca Di Montezemolo phoned his house in Switzerland to see how his recovery was going, and Schumacher's daughter Gina Maria answered the phone and told him daddy was outside playing football.

The order to return for duty followed shortly afterwards…

CoopsII wrote:Not sure if this is the technically the right thread but I just read this anecdote from Murray Walker regarding the '99 Malaysian GP which was new to me and made me chuckle :-

"It was the penultimate race of that season and it was marked by a spectacular comeback from Michael Schumacher, who had been out since breaking his leg in a crash on the very first lap of the British Grand Prix in July.

Schumacher had not yet won a world championship for Ferrari and the summer was full of rumours that he did not want to return to racing that season because it might mean helping team-mate Eddie Irvine win the title. That, it was said, was not what the German wanted because he saw himself as the man who would break a 20-year championship drought for Ferrari.

Whether that was true or not, in the end, he had to come back. Ferrari president Luca Di Montezemolo phoned his house in Switzerland to see how his recovery was going, and Schumacher's daughter Gina Maria answered the phone and told him daddy was outside playing football.

The order to return for duty followed shortly afterwards…

That is brilliantly hilarious! It is typical Schumacher. I only hope little Gina Maria wasn't heavily punished because of it. I do wonder though if Schumacher had any role in Irvine losing it because his lack of enthusiasm for the idea...

DanielPT wrote:

CoopsII wrote:Not sure if this is the technically the right thread but I just read this anecdote from Murray Walker regarding the '99 Malaysian GP which was new to me and made me chuckle :-

"It was the penultimate race of that season and it was marked by a spectacular comeback from Michael Schumacher, who had been out since breaking his leg in a crash on the very first lap of the British Grand Prix in July.

Schumacher had not yet won a world championship for Ferrari and the summer was full of rumours that he did not want to return to racing that season because it might mean helping team-mate Eddie Irvine win the title. That, it was said, was not what the German wanted because he saw himself as the man who would break a 20-year championship drought for Ferrari.

Whether that was true or not, in the end, he had to come back. Ferrari president Luca Di Montezemolo phoned his house in Switzerland to see how his recovery was going, and Schumacher's daughter Gina Maria answered the phone and told him daddy was outside playing football.

The order to return for duty followed shortly afterwards…

That is brilliantly hilarious! It is typical Schumacher. I only hope little Gina Maria wasn't heavily punished because of it. I do wonder though if Schumacher had any role in Irvine losing it because his lack of enthusiasm for the idea...

Man, it sure would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Michael told Emperor Montezuma to get stuffed upon receiving his orders to return to the front line.

Wizzie wrote:Man, it sure would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Michael told Emperor Montezuma to get stuffed upon receiving his orders to return to the front line.

My guess is that he would not have become the first Ferrari champion in 20 years.

DanielPT wrote:I only hope little Gina Maria wasn't heavily punished because of it.

In a way, she was instrumental in repairing some of MSCs damaged reputation because his performance at Malaysia was only slightly short of being superheroic. The sheer speed of the guy after the layoff followed by his deference to Irvine, which just had to hurt, was majestic. Of course, it all went sticky later when the Ferrari team where thrown out only to be reinstated at a later date.

CoopsII wrote:

DanielPT wrote:I only hope little Gina Maria wasn't heavily punished because of it.

In a way, she was instrumental in repairing some of MSCs damaged reputation because his performance at Malaysia was only slightly short of being superheroic. The sheer speed of the guy after the layoff followed by his deference to Irvine, which just had to hurt, was majestic. Of course, it all went sticky later when the Ferrari team where thrown out only to be reinstated at a later date.

Thankfully for him, it turned out Ferrari had already thrown the title away with the worst pitstop of all time at the previous race. Though I can understand why Schumacher'd feel genuinely threatened by Irvine, given that 1999 saw him step his game up quite a bit and Suzuka was one of the few tracks Irvine was actually good at. I don't think anyone saw him being nearly a lap down on Hakkinen by the end of the race.

It doesn't look too good at the moment:

Jocke1 wrote:It doesn't look too good at the moment:

Good ice cream weather if you're Finnish.

Stramala [kostas22] wrote:

Jocke1 wrote:It doesn't look too good at the moment:

Good summer weather if you're British.

Fixed.