Grand Prix Rejects

I guess it can't hurt to open this now; after all, it's not a ROTR thread is it?

As we know, Pirelli are bringing the hardest pair of compounds to the race, so depending on wear rates we might end up with a rather unpopular result. A Red Bull lock-out and a processional race is on the cards unless Lotus, Ferrari or Mercedes can pull something special out of the bag.

Williams have also gone well here historically; could this be their first points of the season?

Ataxia wrote:Williams have also gone well here historically; could this be their first points of the season?

No. I just can't see this happen.

Shizuka wrote:

Ataxia wrote:Williams have also gone well here historically; could this be their first points of the season?

No. I just can't see this happen.

Two very well-reasoned arguments.

Ataxia wrote:I guess it can't hurt to open this now; after all, it's not a ROTR thread is it?

As we know, Pirelli are bringing the hardest pair of compounds to the race, so depending on wear rates we might end up with a rather unpopular result. A Red Bull lock-out and a processional race is on the cards unless Lotus, Ferrari or Mercedes can pull something special out of the bag.

Williams have also gone well here historically; could this be their first points of the season?

And as most of you will probably know for the first time in my 16 year old life i am going to a Grand Prix. Lets just hope the carpark doesn't get flooded again.

Historically Red Bull have gone pretty well around here pretty well. Mark Webber has not only won twice he's finished the last 4 British GP's on the podium (2nd 1st 3rd 1st). A win here will get his season back on track. Seb Vettel also enjoys Silverstone and will be someone to watch too

Ferrari have a good record around here. The late Frolian Gonzalez scored their first ever win in 1951 while their lead driver Fernando Alonso has won twice and has finished on the podium 5 times. Felipe Massa isn't fond of the British Weather. In 2002 he spun 3 times and came 9th while in 2008 he spun 5 times and Trundled home 13th. Like Jenson Button Massa has yet to finish on the podium at Silverstone.

In the first race since Pirelligate Mercedes will want to go racing again. The conservative tires will suit the Merc's as they have been chewing the tires but in Canada there was some signs of progress as the Merc's didn't fall down the order as expected. Expect both Hamilton and Rosberg to be competitive again

Lotus have scored just 3 pts in the last 2 races and look stuck in 4th place at the moment. Raikkonen and Grosjean need to start earning the big results and they better hope that the major upgrade planned for Silverstone works otherwise the rest of the season could be a waste.

Force India should be competitive and Paul di Resta as much as I don't like him has a great chance of a top 6 and so does Adrian Sutil provided the Luck of the Gods gives them a change of Fortune. Mclaren on the other hand might be facing another test session of a Grand Prix with Sergio Perez admitting Mclaren are still light years away from victories this season. Toro Rosso can shine if the rain arrives while that's what Sauber and Williams will be praying for this weekend. Down at the back will Max Chilton combine home support with his remarkable talent and be the better Marussia driver on Merit? And will Giedo van Der Garde put himself back in Monaco mode? Or will he stuck in Canada mode again? We'll find out.

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:

Shizuka wrote:

Ataxia wrote:Williams have also gone well here historically; could this be their first points of the season?

No. I just can't see this happen.

Two very well-reasoned arguments.

I cannot see a team which is known to be struggling with aero correlation issues (having to revert to their 2012 spec exhausts and also trying their 2012 spec front wings in practise sessions) doing particularly well at a track that puts a strong onus on high aero efficiency (the teams tend to run moderately high downforce packages because there are so many high speed corners). We can only hope Williams have a little extra up their sleeves for Silverstone, but I don't think that they have much more to give.

Kimi-ICE, I do hope that you enjoy the experience whilst you are out there - I think it's pretty clear that you'd prefer a dry race though, if the recent weather is anything to go by, you might be needing a jumper rather than sun block. I would agree that Silverstone is probably going to see a strong battle between Ferrari and Red Bull - the latter probably has the most downforce, but the former has looked better at front limited circuits (such as in Barcelona).

Mercedes probably will be a little further back, I suspect - I think that the last couple of races flattered them in terms of tyre wear (Monaco's confines allowed Rosberg to get away with going much slower than normal and Canada is normally a low wear track - Mercedes did a two stopper last year despite the W03 being similarly hard on its tyres, with Rosberg still putting in respectable times at the end of a 32 lap stint). If the weather conditions are cold, it should play to their strengths, especially in qualifying, but I suspect that they probably will still have some of their old problems in Silverstone.

On the other hand, the conservative tyre choice, which Lotus are not happy about, might hinder them a bit. They seem to do well at circuits with faster corners, so Silverstone should suit them better than the last two tracks, but they may well struggle in qualifying and Silverstone, despite the modifications, is not the easiest track to pass at. They might be battling with Mercedes for best of the rest, but I think that their poor qualifying form might hurt their chances of podiums or victory due to them being backed up into the pack.
They had a similar problems in 2012, after all - Kimi and Grosjean had strong pace (especially in the final stint), but neither driver made up that many places because they were unable to fully utilise that pace in the opening phases of the race.

The Force India-McLaren battle could be interesting and a little tighter too - McLaren have admitted that their car is suffering from ride problems but, given Silverstone is one of the smoother venues on the calendar, it should mask some of their issues. Force India have also admitted that they are struggling a little with their front tyre performance (they are better at rear traction limited venues, which would explain why Sutil and Di Resta were reasonably strong in Canada), so those two factors might give McLaren a slight edge this weekend.

Ataxia wrote:Williams have also gone well here historically; could this be their first points of the season?

mario wrote:

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:

Shizuka wrote:
No. I just can't see this happen.

Two very well-reasoned arguments.

I cannot see a team which is known to be struggling with aero correlation issues (having to revert to their 2012 spec exhausts and also trying their 2012 spec front wings in practise sessions) doing particularly well at a track that puts a strong onus on high aero efficiency (the teams tend to run moderately high downforce packages because there are so many high speed corners). We can only hope Williams have a little extra up their sleeves for Silverstone, but I don't think that they have much more to give.

I think that statement was more wishful thinking from me than a genuine prediction.

I'm about KimI-ICE's age and I haven't attended a Grand Prix. The only world-class motor race I have been to is the A1 Grand Prix at Brands Hatch in 2008, before I developed a real passion for F1. By the way, I have just started the Predicament Predictions Thread although that may not be my responsibility. Apologies if that is the case but I was just too excited.

good_Ralf wrote:I'm about KimI-ICE's age and I haven't attended a Grand Prix. The only world-class motor race I have been to is the A1 Grand Prix at Brands Hatch in 2008, before I developed a real passion for F1. By the way, I have just started the Predicament Predictions Thread although that may not be my responsibility. Apologies if that is the case but I was just too excited.

Well, I live 4 hours outside of New York City, so I may have to attend the GP there in the future. Or I'll go to Montreal when I get a passport. I've been into F1 since my early childhood.

I'm fine with the Predicament Predictions being opened now. Like Ataxia said, it isn't ROTR, which people have opened too early, which is Saturday morning. Or Tuesday

As for Williams scoring, I'll say, "Hell NO!" Their car is a crapbox, like the McLaren and the Sauber.

good_Ralf wrote:I'm about KimI-ICE's age and I haven't attended a Grand Prix. The only world-class motor race I have been to is the A1 Grand Prix at Brands Hatch in 2008, before I developed a real passion for F1.

I was there too. I went to all four A1GP events at Brands and loved them all - best motor racing I have seen (F1 at Silverstone 1996 and Monza 2011 were exciting but A1GP was better!).

mario wrote:Kimi-ICE, I do hope that you enjoy the experience whilst you are out there - I think it's pretty clear that you'd prefer a dry race though, if the recent weather is anything to go by, you might be needing a jumper rather than sun block. I would agree that Silverstone is probably going to see a strong battle between Ferrari and Red Bull - the latter probably has the most downforce, but the former has looked better at front limited circuits (such as in Barcelona).

I was again at Brands Hatch this past weekend for the Mini Festival, and although it was perpetually overcast and there was regular drizzle/rain/wind (requiring continual wearing of jumpers/fleeces), both my sister and I came back with faces that had caught the sun. Don't forget that, even on an overcast day, there is enough sunlight coming through for you to be able to see many times more clearly than at night. So a cap is in order - protect your face from the sun AND the rain!

If the weather here in Britain stays like it currently is, then there won't be much rain.

Kimi-ICE wrote:And as most of you will probably know for the first time in my 16 year old life i am going to a Grand Prix. Lets just hope the carpark doesn't get flooded again.

Have fun Kimi-ICE! I hope you have a great experience. Unfortunately I can't go this year because I couldn't scam my way into free hospitality like last year. Remember that it can be very windy at Silverstone and don't bother with taking photos, unless you have a very capable camera. You'll be too far away to get decent photos. Just enjoy the atmosphere and the sound. Oh and don't bother with earplugs. Earplugs are for pussies.

East Londoner wrote:I don't think Williams will survive the first lap now...

The FW35s will carry the names of 691 employees who work for the Williams Group.

Boring. Just the names? That's so anonymous.
Williams should imitate Red Bulls "fans faces livery" from a couple years back ('07), and have the FW35s show all 691 employees faces instead of boring names.

Faustus wrote:

Kimi-ICE wrote:And as most of you will probably know for the first time in my 16 year old life i am going to a Grand Prix. Lets just hope the carpark doesn't get flooded again.

Have fun Kimi-ICE! I hope you have a great experience. Unfortunately I can't go this year because I couldn't scam my way into free hospitality like last year. Remember that it can be very windy at Silverstone and don't bother with taking photos, unless you have a very capable camera. You'll be too far away to get decent photos. Just enjoy the atmosphere and the sound. Oh and don't bother with earplugs. Earplugs are for pussies.

Agreed with the earplugs part. I went in 2005 and loved every minute, even if I was a little drunk by race end. I hope you like the smell of rubber and fuel too, as it'll stick with you for about a week.

AdrianSutil wrote:

Faustus wrote:

Kimi-ICE wrote:And as most of you will probably know for the first time in my 16 year old life i am going to a Grand Prix. Lets just hope the carpark doesn't get flooded again.

Have fun Kimi-ICE! I hope you have a great experience. Unfortunately I can't go this year because I couldn't scam my way into free hospitality like last year. Remember that it can be very windy at Silverstone and don't bother with taking photos, unless you have a very capable camera. You'll be too far away to get decent photos. Just enjoy the atmosphere and the sound. Oh and don't bother with earplugs. Earplugs are for pussies.

Agreed with the earplugs part. I went in 2005 and loved every minute, even if I was a little drunk by race end. I hope you like the smell of rubber and fuel too, as it'll stick with you for about a week.

I have a feeling ROTR will go to whoever does the stupidest thing in front of wherever i'm sitting

Lew-hysteria has reared it's head again..

http://mbgoodlucklewis.co.uk/

Gutierrez says he is not worried about critics.

James Rossiter will drive in FP1 for Force India; probably more research into track-simulator correlation, I guess.

Ataxia wrote:James Rossiter will drive in FP1 for Force India; probably more research into track-simulator correlation, I guess.

That will be the Englishman's first appearance in an F1 car at a Grand Prix meeting. Rossiter was also a tester for BAR/Honda in 2005/6 am I right? I feel like he is underrated and also is another Anthony Davidson, as in having the raw pace but also the failure to be poached by an F1 team.

good_Ralf wrote:

Ataxia wrote:James Rossiter will drive in FP1 for Force India; probably more research into track-simulator correlation, I guess.

That will be the Englishman's first appearance in an F1 car at a Grand Prix meeting. Rossiter was also a tester for BAR/Honda in 2005/6 am I right? I feel like he is underrated and also is another Anthony Davidson, as in having the raw pace but also the failure to be poached by an F1 team.

He is listed as a test driver for Honda in 2006 and 2008 with a stint at Super Aguri in 2007 in between. He does come across as a fairly adaptable driver, having gone from F1 to prototypes to Super GT and back to regular GT cars over the past few years, but one that has also had a tendency to be overlooked in the process.

mario wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:

Ataxia wrote:James Rossiter will drive in FP1 for Force India; probably more research into track-simulator correlation, I guess.

That will be the Englishman's first appearance in an F1 car at a Grand Prix meeting. Rossiter was also a tester for BAR/Honda in 2005/6 am I right? I feel like he is underrated and also is another Anthony Davidson, as in having the raw pace but also the failure to be poached by an F1 team.

He is listed as a test driver for Honda in 2006 and 2008 with a stint at Super Aguri in 2007 in between. He does come across as a fairly adaptable driver, having gone from F1 to prototypes to Super GT and back to regular GT cars over the past few years, but one that has also had a tendency to be overlooked in the process.

I won't be watching him at the actual circuit because I don't go till Saturday. Does anyone know which driver he might be replacing but it's probably Sutil because we are in Britain Di Resta's home GP

I'd guess Sutil. Plus, I believe he is the No. 2 driver, and they typically replace the No. 2 driver with the driver they want to run.

go_Rubens wrote:I'd guess Sutil. Plus, I believe he is the No. 2 driver, and they typically replace the No. 2 driver with the driver they want to run.

Or they do a coin toss which I think Lotus did with their drivers in 2010.

good_Ralf wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:I'd guess Sutil. Plus, I believe he is the No. 2 driver, and they typically replace the No. 2 driver with the driver they want to run.

Or they do a coin toss which I think Lotus did with their drivers in 2010.

Odd. Why do that? Makes no sense.

go_Rubens wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:I'd guess Sutil. Plus, I believe he is the No. 2 driver, and they typically replace the No. 2 driver with the driver they want to run.

Or they do a coin toss which I think Lotus did with their drivers in 2010.

Odd. Why do that? Makes no sense.

... because it's fair?

Most teams send the driver they want to run (Rossiter) in substitute with their No. 2 driver (Sutil). Why can't Force India do the same?

go_Rubens wrote:Most teams send the driver they want to run (Rossiter) in substitute with their No. 2 driver (Sutil). Why can't Force India do the same?

Because there's no clear #2 driver. Plus, what BCS said.

mario wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:

Ataxia wrote:James Rossiter will drive in FP1 for Force India; probably more research into track-simulator correlation, I guess.

That will be the Englishman's first appearance in an F1 car at a Grand Prix meeting. Rossiter was also a tester for BAR/Honda in 2005/6 am I right? I feel like he is underrated and also is another Anthony Davidson, as in having the raw pace but also the failure to be poached by an F1 team.

He is listed as a test driver for Honda in 2006 and 2008 with a stint at Super Aguri in 2007 in between. He does come across as a fairly adaptable driver, having gone from F1 to prototypes to Super GT and back to regular GT cars over the past few years, but one that has also had a tendency to be overlooked in the process.

Don't forget that he was signed by the infamous USF1 for 2010. Sadly, we all know what happened...

USF1 was a farce and shall always remain a farce. 'Nuff said.

go_Rubens wrote:USF1 was a farce and shall always remain a farce. 'Nuff said.

It was fantastic. It made HRT look like Red Bull Racing. I thoroughly enjoyed watching it collapse before it even began, they were ultimate rejects in my opinion.

CoopsII wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:USF1 was a farce and shall always remain a farce. 'Nuff said.

It was fantastic. It made HRT look like Red Bull Racing. I thoroughly enjoyed watching it collapse before it even began, they were ultimate rejects in my opinion.

Ultimate rejects? Is that the best you can come up with?

Well, I'll say they were the world champions when it came to collapsing before even beginning

FIA press conference schedule - Great Britain

Thursday, June 27, 1500 hours local time (1400 GMT)
Fernando Alonso (Ferrari), Jenson Button (McLaren), Max Chilton (Marussia) , Paul Di Resta (Force India), Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes), Mark Webber (Red Bull).

Friday, June 28, 1600 hours local time (1500 GMT)
Eric Boullier (Lotus), Ross Brawn (Mercedes), Stefano Domenicali (Ferrari), Paul Hembery (Pirelli) , Christian Horner (Red Bull), Martin Whitmarsh (McLaren)


Could be interesting to hear what they have to say.

Sauber's 2012 efforts seem further away than ever because now one of their main designers has left. The team is once again slipping into anonymity. Uh Oh.

good_Ralf wrote:Sauber's 2012 efforts seem further away than ever because now one of their main designers has left. The team is once again slipping into anonymity. Uh Oh.

Well he designed the 2013 car so maybe he's had to shoulder the blame for the poor start to the year. Letting James Key go was a big mistake especially considering what he's been doing for Toro Rosso so far.

Kimi-ICE wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:Sauber's 2012 efforts seem further away than ever because now one of their main designers has left. The team is once again slipping into anonymity. Uh Oh.

Well he designed the 2013 car so maybe he's had to shoulder the blame for the poor start to the year. Letting James Key go was a big mistake especially considering what he's been doing for Toro Rosso so far.

Sauber really seem have an up-and-down cycle of performance. After a poor 2000, F1 Rejects described how they would be left battling with Prost for the wooden spoon, but then they responded with an excellent 2001 season. Expectations were then raised and Sauber lost their edge over 2002 and 2003, only to have a solid 2004 season before sliding back again in 2005.

1997: Good year (for Herbert only, really)
1998-2000: A slide down the order
2001: Good year
2002-3: A slide down the order
2004: Good year
2005: A slide down the order

2010-1: Midfield years
2012: Good year
2013- : A slide down the order

Sorry if I was being monotonous there.

Kimi-ICE wrote: Letting James Key go was a big mistake especially considering what he's been doing for Toro Rosso so far.

Letting Key go could prove one of their key mistakes of the year. I Trulli believe that.

good_Ralf wrote:

Kimi-ICE wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:Sauber's 2012 efforts seem further away than ever because now one of their main designers has left. The team is once again slipping into anonymity. Uh Oh.

Well he designed the 2013 car so maybe he's had to shoulder the blame for the poor start to the year. Letting James Key go was a big mistake especially considering what he's been doing for Toro Rosso so far.

Sauber really seem have an up-and-down cycle of performance. After a poor 2000, F1 Rejects described how they would be left battling with Prost for the wooden spoon, but then they responded with an excellent 2001 season. Expectations were then raised and Sauber lost their edge over 2002 and 2003, only to have a solid 2004 season before sliding back again in 2005.

1997: Good year (for Herbert only, really)
1998-2000: A slide down the order
2001: Good year
2002-3: A slide down the order
2004: Good year
2005: A slide down the order

2010-1: Midfield years
2012: Good year
2013- : A slide down the order

Sorry if I was being monotonous there.

Jamie and Enoch also said that Leo Ress (Whoever he is) was never willing to take a gamble in design and then they took a massive driving gamble with Raikkonen and the rest as they say is History

Jocke1 wrote:

Kimi-ICE wrote: Letting James Key go was a big mistake especially considering what he's been doing for Toro Rosso so far.

Letting Key go could prove one of their key mistakes of the year. I Trulli believe that.

I get the feeling that we really need a Punderbox thread!

Kimi-ICE wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:Sauber's 2012 efforts seem further away than ever because now one of their main designers has left. The team is once again slipping into anonymity. Uh Oh.

Well he designed the 2013 car so maybe he's had to shoulder the blame for the poor start to the year. Letting James Key go was a big mistake especially considering what he's been doing for Toro Rosso so far.

Mind you, he was also the Chief Designer for the relatively successful C31 too (although, given that he moved to Sauber in mid 2011, it is perhaps debatable how much of an influence he could have exerted on the design of the car at the time).

As to letting Key go, I suspect that Sauber would have loved to have kept hold of him if possible - however, given that Toro Rosso has the financial might of Red Bull backing it up, they probably could offer him much better terms than Sauber could.

Kimi-ICE wrote:Jamie and Enoch also said that Leo Ress (Whoever he is) was never willing to take a gamble in design and then they took a massive driving gamble with Raikkonen and the rest as they say is History

Ress was the former Technical Director at Sauber (having come across from their sports car program to their F1 team) before Rampf took over his role in 2000. Either way, it is somewhat unfortunate for Sauber that the one year in which they decided to go for a more radical design approach sees it backfire badly, whilst Force India, their main competitors, stole a march with a relatively conservative design.

Pirelli are bringing the two harder compounds (AKA BRIDGESTONES) for this race, coupled with the cooler track temps, the Mercs will be quite good.