2013 Nico and Sebastian's German GP Thread

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 01 Jul 2013, 14:56

Germany is next up this weekend (I thought it was 2 weeks) so i think we should get this thread up and running

I wrote the title because i think Germany have a real chance of taking this weekend. None more so than either Sebastian Vettel and Nico Rosberg. Between them they've taken 6 poles and 5 wins and 7 podiums. Can Vettel end his July Jinx or can Rosberg win both his Grand Prix's that he calls his home. The fact that they've scored the most points over the last 5 races just says it all.

They have to battle several other drivers though. One of those of course is Mark Webber. Like Silverstone he loves the Nurburgring having scored his first Red Bull Podium in 2007 and His first Pole and Win in 2009. He was also in the battle in 2011 taking pole and Finishing 3rd. I think he will be very competitive here.

Ferrari will have to sort out their 1 lap pace after what happened at Silverstone. I don't think there was anything wrong with it it's just teams like Force India and Toro Rosso stepped up and improved while Ferrari stood still. Lotus are In a similar position and Romain Grosjean needs to start scoring again because Lotus are being rooted into 4th in the constructors table with each passing race.

At Force India it's Adrian Sutil's turn to have his home race and it would be fitting if he were to score a podium in front of his home crowd. I want to see Paul Di Resta earn a result on speed not strategy and luck for a change because he is only 13 points in front of Sutil in the championship and it doesn't look like anyone is paying attention to him apart from the BBC and SKY despite his consistent result scoring. A result earned on speed will help him immensely.

In the Toro Rosso battle Daniel Ricciardo might have the edge on Jean-Eric Vergne here partly because he has raced here in F1 before and Vergne has not. Mclaren Sauber and Williams will need the weather to help them to a podium because as 1999 showed you never know what might happen. I expect Caterham and Marussia to be closely matched once again too

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 01 Jul 2013, 15:12

Well, I think Seb will suffer more bad luck. He only finished 2nd in '09 and was 4th in '11 because of him being a twin to Michael Schumacher and spinning at the same corner that Michael did, so I think he falls under pressure by his home fans and being in Germany for F1 as he either gets podiums or suffers bad luck. So I'm backing Nico for the win. Or Webber.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 01 Jul 2013, 20:25

Could Sauber be struggling for Money if these reports are true?

http://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/strug ... ulkenberg/

I mean they didn't have a big budget to start with but i didn't think it was THAT serious :shock:

S951 · Post by **S951** » 01 Jul 2013, 22:47

Kimi-ICE wrote:Could Sauber be struggling for Money if these reports are true?

http://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/strug ... ulkenberg/

I mean they didn't have a big budget to start with but i didn't think it was THAT serious

yeah did mention that in the British gp thred the source originally came from bilde saying that suppliers for that month hadn't been paid either, looks like matt morris moving was a good idea after all if true

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 01 Jul 2013, 23:27

One thing I found interesting in that little article was this:

The Swiss newspaper Blick said Sauber is desperately waiting for a new sponsor, believed to be Russian natural gas giant Gazprom, to sign up.

Now, I don't know if this site is to be trusted, but if they were to get a Russian sponsor, would we seen a Russian come (or return if talking about Petrov) to F1?

Sublime_FA11C · Post by **Sublime_FA11C** » 02 Jul 2013, 00:09

Methinks Hamilton owes Rosberg a home GP victory

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 02 Jul 2013, 02:32

Sublime_FA11C wrote:Methinks Hamilton owes Rosberg a home GP victory

Not to spoil your fun, but that is IF the Merc can stay with the Red Bull in terms of pace.

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 02 Jul 2013, 02:43

Dan B wrote:One thing I found interesting in that little article was this:

The Swiss newspaper Blick said Sauber is desperately waiting for a new sponsor, believed to be Russian natural gas giant Gazprom, to sign up.

Now, I don't know if this site is to be trusted, but if they were to get a Russian sponsor, would we seen a Russian come (or return if talking about Petrov) to F1?

Petrov returns? Yes, please!

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 02 Jul 2013, 03:49

SergeyZlobinmakesgloriousF1debutlol

razta · Post by **razta** » 02 Jul 2013, 06:07

if the temps are cool and i mean proper cool.. MercedesWinsLOL!

Post by **mario** » 02 Jul 2013, 08:27

S951 wrote:
Kimi-ICE wrote:Could Sauber be struggling for Money if these reports are true?

http://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/strug ... ulkenberg/

I mean they didn't have a big budget to start with but i didn't think it was THAT serious

yeah did mention that in the British gp thred the source originally came from bilde saying that suppliers for that month hadn't been paid either, looks like matt morris moving was a good idea after all if true

I know that Sauber have been keen to see a cost cap come in because their budget has been fairly tight for the past few years, but if those reports are true, it is a very worrying development. There is a certain tragic ironic for Hulkenberg that he might have sought to leave Force India because of concerns over their financial stability (due to Mallya's problems with his airline), only for it to turn out that Sauber are in even deeper trouble than first thought.

razta wrote:if the temps are cool and i mean proper cool.. MercedesWinsLOL!

Cooler temperatures would not necessarily be a huge obstacle for Red Bull given that they also seem to prefer cooler conditions, although it would certainly hinder Ferrari and Lotus by comparison. There are some parts of the circuit, most notably the first sector, that should play to the strengths of the W04 (their good mechanical grip and performance in lower speed corners), so it might be a reasonably close battle between Mercedes and Red Bull for qualifying - I still feel, though, that Red Bull have the slight edge in race trim.

go_Rubens wrote:Well, I think Seb will suffer more bad luck. He only finished 2nd in '09 and was 4th in '11 because of him being a twin to Michael Schumacher and spinning at the same corner that Michael did, so I think he falls under pressure by his home fans and being in Germany for F1 as he either gets podiums or suffers bad luck. So I'm backing Nico for the win. Or Webber.

I do think that there is perhaps something in the notion that Seb has allowed the pressure of performing at home to get to him at times. Darren Heath has commented in the past that, at previous German GP's, that Vettel has often been much more irritable and withdrawn during those races than he normally would be, whilst his last race at the Nurburgring, in 2011, saw an unusually error prone and clumsy race that was both his lowest points finish that year and also, by a long way, the furthest off the lead that he finished in a race (over 47 seconds).

Whilst this is probably tempting fate, it is true that Webber has generally performed quite strongly at the Nurburgring by comparison - he finished 3rd in the 2007 race at a time when the RB3 was not normally that competitive, took his maiden win in 2009 and another podium in 2011. Even before that, when the team was still called Jaguar, some of his best points finishes came at that circuit, so it does seem as if he has a particular affinity for the Nurburgring. Whether he can take another victory in his swansong year is open to question, but I can see Webber being closer to the front than he has been in some of the earlier races.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 02 Jul 2013, 08:46

Actually the race is impossible to call at the moment, because we don't know what sort of tyres will be used. I suspect they will will use the existing tyres with mandated higher presuures, but even that small change could mess up everyones tyre strategies and greatly change the competitive order. I predict we will get quite a few teams calling foul, and asking the German GP to be removed from the season points tally.

Sublime_FA11C · Post by **Sublime_FA11C** » 02 Jul 2013, 09:24

It does look like Pirelli will use kevlar instead of the (cheaper) steel belts for the German GP, but keep the compound the same. Post Germany it's anyones guess, but probably the construction method of the tyre will be changed (not durability mind you). I don't belive any team will try to block it this time, because the fans are unhappy or confused, the drivers are talking boycott, the FIA is already under fire for mishandleing things, Pirelli is taking serious flack for essentially doing everything right, and on top of it all there may be a couple of in-season-but-dont-call-them-that tests snuck into this year.

The teams that were whining loudest about a possible tyre change aren't really doing too well. There's not much of an advantage to keep, and again the circumstances have now changed.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 02 Jul 2013, 09:26

go_Rubens wrote:
Sublime_FA11C wrote:Methinks Hamilton owes Rosberg a home GP victory

Not to spoil your fun, but that is IF the Merc can stay with the Red Bull in terms of pace.

If the Mercedes can stay with the Red Bull's pace at Silverstone, then they should be able to at the Nurburgring. Given that Vettel hasn't won in Europe since the 2011 Italian Grand Prix, it might be worth getting some money on a Mercedes victory. Also, Vettel has never won in front of his home crowd, and his best result at the Nurburgring was 2nd in 2009.

Post by **Londoner** » 02 Jul 2013, 10:00

Sublime_FA11C wrote:It does look like Pirelli will use kevlar instead of the (cheaper) steel belts for the German GP, but keep the compound the same. Post Germany it's anyones guess, but probably the construction method of the tyre will be changed (not durability mind you). I don't belive any team will try to block it this time, because the fans are unhappy or confused, the drivers are talking boycott, the FIA is already under fire for mishandleing things, Pirelli is taking serious flack for essentially doing everything right, and on top of it all there may be a couple of in-season-but-dont-call-them-that tests snuck into this year.

The teams that were whining loudest about a possible tyre change aren't really doing too well. There's not much of an advantage to keep, and again the circumstances have now changed.

Assorted tweets in the last half hour, including Andrew Benson, suggest that Pirelli will be reverting to 2012-spec tyres from Hungary onwards. Waiting for a creditable source to arrive first though...

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 02 Jul 2013, 10:46

F1Fanatic are reporting that Ferrari Lotus and Force India are prepared to admit defeat and let the changes to the Pirelli tires go ahead

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/07/02/f ... d-up-0207/

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 02 Jul 2013, 10:51

Backmarker wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:
Sublime_FA11C wrote:Methinks Hamilton owes Rosberg a home GP victory

Not to spoil your fun, but that is IF the Merc can stay with the Red Bull in terms of pace.

If the Mercedes can stay with the Red Bull's pace at Silverstone, then they should be able to at the Nurburgring. Given that Vettel hasn't won in Europe since the 2011 Italian Grand Prix, it might be worth getting some money on a Mercedes victory. Also, Vettel has never won in front of his home crowd, and his best result at the Nurburgring was 2nd in 2009.

Yeah. It seems the only driver in the field with home race success (or luck) is Alonso. I can never understand that. I mean, yeah Hamilton won Britain '08, but that was a wet race and Massa spun 5 times and no one else was anywhere. Vettel has never won in Germany. Or July, for the whole matter. Massa shall be mentioned on behalf of Alonso, since he has done very well in São Paulo. Button has never gotten a podium at Silverstone.

Post by **mario** » 02 Jul 2013, 11:29

Kimi-ICE wrote:F1Fanatic are reporting that Ferrari Lotus and Force India are prepared to admit defeat and let the changes to the Pirelli tires go ahead

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/07/02/f ... d-up-0207/

They probably have little choice in the matter anyway - even if they refused, the FIA would have the option to force the changes through without their consent on safety grounds, so the best thing to do is to work with Pirelli and hope that you can push them towards going for slightly less conservative compound choices.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 02 Jul 2013, 13:43

If you are reading this on Tuesday, Vettel celebrates his 26th birthday tomorrow.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 02 Jul 2013, 13:45

good_Ralf wrote:If you are reading this on Tuesday, Vettel celebrates his 26th birthday tomorrow.

Well, maybe the German GP will be a happy birthday present (or not...) :roll:

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 02 Jul 2013, 14:13

good_Ralf wrote:If you are reading this on Tuesday, Vettel celebrates his 26th birthday tomorrow.

Our lives are polar opposite yet we are the same age. Makes you think...

Still, give it 10 years and he'll Be thinking about retiring whilst I'll be getting into Motorsport myself so swings and roundabouts :lol:

Sublime_FA11C · Post by **Sublime_FA11C** » 02 Jul 2013, 14:38

go_Rubens wrote:Vettel has never won in Germany. Or July, for the whole matter.

That does kinda sound like Vettel. Drive like a madman at start, engage cruise mode for the middle, then pickup the pace and focus towards the end. And nab fastest lap ofc. If you apply the same to to the season, July is cruise mode.

I also like how he absolutely did not give a flying rat's ass about dropping out of the race from the lead, commenting only: "Why should i be unhappy about it, it's racing." Of course, having a healthy lead and his main opponent still stuck in a Ferrari that isn't improving does help. Mercedes is getting closer to becoming a threat but still not there imo. And they have two drivers capable of delivering with the "wrong" one on form. Just like last year.

Oh, and the irony of Webber taking points away from Alonso and Hamilton is just... sweet.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 02 Jul 2013, 18:28

Pirelli are planning their response to the tire failures

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108507

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 02 Jul 2013, 18:37

Kimi-ICE wrote:Pirelli are planning their response to the tire failures

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108507

Well then. Here we go again.

johnnyCarwash · Post by **johnnyCarwash** » 02 Jul 2013, 19:22

Pirelli wrote:"It also wants limits on pressures and cambers to be enforced by the FIA."

I actually agree with this..
I thought that the pressure changes at Silverstone was very rejectful. I know it's a constant battle between teams and the tyre supplier (see Spa 2011 with Red Bull for trying to push the camber angle to the extreme) for pushing the limits but with making these types of tyres, there must be some parameters within which the teams must operate. If we were running harder compounds I suspect we wouldn't be seeing these extreme camber angles for a start.

However I believe that the Nurburgring will not present any problems for the tyres which we saw in Bahrain/Silverstone...

Sublime_FA11C · Post by **Sublime_FA11C** » 02 Jul 2013, 23:41

The past few months were silly. Teams moaning about "unsafe" and/or "crap" Pirellis, and Pirelli being blocked from making changes. At least now the "unsafe" argument has pushed Pirelli and FIA into a position of actual power, so maybe the tyres will be sorted willy-nilly and we can get on with the show.

Shame the tyre talk is pushed so hard into the headlines. I understand people like controversy, but it's been a good season this year. Canada was the only dull race and even it was ok.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 03 Jul 2013, 00:44

Kimi-ICE wrote:Could Sauber be struggling for Money if these reports are true?

http://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/strug ... ulkenberg/

I mean they didn't have a big budget to start with but i didn't think it was THAT serious

Another step for the maiden ROTY of team.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 03 Jul 2013, 00:56

Dj_bereta wrote:
Kimi-ICE wrote:Could Sauber be struggling for Money if these reports are true?

http://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/strug ... ulkenberg/

I mean they didn't have a big budget to start with but i didn't think it was THAT serious

Another step for the maiden ROTY of team.

Definitely. This could mean that Sauber could have the last nail nailed into the coffin in a few years, perhaps?

I'd hate to see Sauber go, if the case may be.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 03 Jul 2013, 07:09

Im looking forward to returning to the Nurburgring. New Hockenheim is toss.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 03 Jul 2013, 07:24

Dj_bereta wrote:
Kimi-ICE wrote:Could Sauber be struggling for Money if these reports are true?

http://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/strug ... ulkenberg/

I mean they didn't have a big budget to start with but i didn't think it was THAT serious

Another step for the maiden ROTY of team.

Otherwise it's a third one for Williams given that they have had yet another abysmal year.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 03 Jul 2013, 07:43

I know it was technically the European GP but it was at this hallowed track that this visceral moment happened 14 years ago and it burnt itself into my memory for ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o11i32AoTwo

I recall having a massive argument with my then girlfriend later that evening (dont feel bad for me, she was a bitchqueen from hell) and although it wasnt about Badoer perhaps his emotional state left me not wanting to put up with her bullshit any longer.

Thankyou Luca, for showing me the way...

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 03 Jul 2013, 07:55

Check this out LOL

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 03 Jul 2013, 08:46

good_Ralf wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:
Kimi-ICE wrote:Could Sauber be struggling for Money if these reports are true?

http://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/strug ... ulkenberg/

I mean they didn't have a big budget to start with but i didn't think it was THAT serious

Another step for the maiden ROTY of team.

Otherwise it's a third one for Williams given that they have had yet another abysmal year.

No I predict a first ROTY for Mclaren. Williams have been crap for ages now and Sauber have the odd off season once in a while but This is a team which had the fastest car for most of 2012 and had there not been the bumbling mistakes then they would have cakewalked both titles. Their fall from grace has been staggering they are getting beaten by Force India who could have been even further ahead with better luck and if their not careful they could be finishing behind Toro Rosso of all teams which i think all of us would love to see

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 03 Jul 2013, 08:53

Kimi-ICE wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Otherwise it's a third one for Williams given that they have had yet another abysmal year.

No I predict a first ROTY for Mclaren. Williams have been crap for ages now and Sauber have the odd off season once in a while but This is a team which had the fastest car for most of 2012 and had there not been the bumbling mistakes then they would have cakewalked both titles. Their fall from grace has been staggering they are getting beaten by Force India who could have been even further ahead with better luck and if their not careful they could be finishing behind Toro Rosso of all teams which i think all of us would love to see

Read my new stat on the McLaren Malfunction, Whitmarsh Washout thread. It's shocking.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 04 Jul 2013, 16:01

good_Ralf wrote:
Kimi-ICE wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Otherwise it's a third one for Williams given that they have had yet another abysmal year.

No I predict a first ROTY for Mclaren. Williams have been crap for ages now and Sauber have the odd off season once in a while but This is a team which had the fastest car for most of 2012 and had there not been the bumbling mistakes then they would have cakewalked both titles. Their fall from grace has been staggering they are getting beaten by Force India who could have been even further ahead with better luck and if their not careful they could be finishing behind Toro Rosso of all teams which i think all of us would love to see

Read my new stat on the McLaren Malfunction, Whitmarsh Washout thread. It's shocking.

It's an alarming situation isn't and the question is how are they going to sort it out?

BTW it looks like JB's girlfriend was having a quiet moment with Alonso

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/13315379

Sublime_FA11C · Post by **Sublime_FA11C** » 04 Jul 2013, 16:53

CoopsII wrote:Im looking forward to returning to the Nurburgring. New Hockenheim is toss.

I never could get into the "ring", it just doesn't click for me. As for Hockenheim... well it's a butchered classic but i do like the result. In fact, maybe even more than the old one. I know, i know...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 04 Jul 2013, 17:05

CoopsII wrote:Im looking forward to returning to the Nurburgring. New Hockenheim is toss.

Hockenheim was never that great, really, but the new version just has nothing that interesting about it. It's not bad, but not good either. The Nurburgring has some variation

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 04 Jul 2013, 18:21

The GPDA have threatened to withdraw if there's a repeat of last week's Pirelli issues. They won't of course, but it's an interesting development.

Post by **mario** » 04 Jul 2013, 19:02

GwilymJJames wrote:The GPDA have threatened to withdraw if there's a repeat of last week's Pirelli issues. They won't of course, but it's an interesting development.

I'd agree that they are very unlikely to actually go ahead with their threat - the likelihood of those problems occurring again in Germany, given that the stresses in the tyres should be much lower, is quite low.
As an aside, given that the threat of a boycott was made by the GPDA, are there any drivers on the grid that are not currently part of the GPDA and could therefore act independently? I think most of the current drivers are part of the GPDA, but I have my doubts over whether that would include Kimi - I believe that he refused to join the GPDA right up until he left in 2009, but I am not sure whether he has changed his position since his return to the sport.

On another note, the current forecast for the race does seem fairly promising - there is a chance of rain on Friday during the second practise session, but the other sessions are likely to remain dry, and ambient conditions are likely to be similar to that of Silverstone (which, by the sounds of things, should suit Mercedes quite nicely). http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/07/04/w ... rburgring/

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 04 Jul 2013, 19:18

According to the BBC's article on it, Hamilton & Raikkonen are not members of GPDA.

Still, in the unlikely event of a GPDA strike, I don't think Hamilton & Raikkonen would do the F1 equivalent of crossing the picket line. Even if they wanted to chance that the FIA would run the German GP as a two-car race and let them keep the points (not impossible given the 2005 US GP), how likely is it that Mercedes and Lotus would actually prep their cars and let them drive if the other 20 drivers, including their team-mates, are staying in their motorhomes over a safety issue?