Grand Prix Rejects

For a long time, i'm feeling that qualifying is not merited as it should be. All of that Saturday action does is to put you one meter or so behind or ahead of a another guy. That is nice advantage to have, of course, but other than on street tracks, it is not actually huge.

And qualifications are, in my opinion at least, purest indicator of raw skill. I've noticed that so many people tend not to judge poor qualifiers by calling them " not so good qualifiers but strong in races" and other political correctness. If you consistently qualify bad, comparable to your car strength, you are not top driver, and all of your race strategy and tactics, tyre conserving, overtaking and defending skills, which are great of course, can't change that.

Now, for sure i don't think that these points should be something that would have great chance of making difference in the end. I was thinking of top 10 drivers in q being awarded from 1 to 0.1 So, in 20 races, consistently better guy in Q can gain 4,5 maybe even 7,8 points edge to his rival. That is too small to dent importance of race but in some seasons can be that important tip. Also, it would add cool decimals to point count.

Ofcourse, that would require one car on track at the time, but that's actually one more good thing about whole thing. Traffic in Q was always something i though of as very stupid. Second problem would be, stronger cars dominating here and additionaly taking points. Even Senna couldn't outqualify that 1993 Williams. But, about that problem, F1 is competition of cars and drivers combined, if you don't like that, go watch stock racing.

What you think of this? F1 troughout history awarded points for things much less rational than this, for such a relative thing like fastest lap in race, so i don't see this as such a long shot sometimes in the future.

This is topical enough for me to move it to the Stoddart forum.

Gvozdenovic wrote:All of that Saturday action does is to put you one meter or so behind or ahead of a another guy. That is nice advantage to have, of course, but other than on street tracks, it is not actually huge.

I think I have heard Martin Brundle say on a number of occasions that it is 8 metres.

Gvozdenovic wrote:Now, for sure i don't think that these points should be something that would have great chance of making difference in the end. I was thinking of top 10 drivers in q being awarded from 1 to 0.1 So, in 20 races, consistently better guy in Q can gain 4,5 maybe even 7,8 points edge to his rival. That is too small to dent importance of race but in some seasons can be that important tip. Also, it would add cool decimals to point count.

Decimals/fractions have been issued in the past for shared fastest laps and shortened races, and are a rare occurance. The fact that Lella Lombardi is unique in being the only person to have a career total of 1/2 point is kinda special, as is the fact that the 1984 title was decided by 1/2 point. These ought to remain special occasions, in my opinion. Ergo, I suggest either a seperate qualifying championship or integer points.

Gvozdenovic wrote:Of course, that would require one car on track at the time, but that's actually one more good thing about whole thing. Traffic in Q was always something i though of as very stupid. Second problem would be, stronger cars dominating here and additionaly taking points. Even Senna couldn't outqualify that 1993 Williams. But, about that problem, F1 is competition of cars and drivers combined, if you don't like that, go watch stock racing.

But being able to deal with traffic was always a skill that many top-line drivers had to deal with in both qualifying and the race. Single-lap qualifying of 10 years ago used to bore me more than 12-laps-per-hour or the current knock-out format. Other series seem to be in agreement with F1, with a similar format (primarily thinking of DTM and IndyCar) so it can't be that wrong, can it?

dr-baker wrote:But being able to deal with traffic was always a skill that many top-line drivers had to deal with in both qualifying and the race. Single-lap qualifying of 10 years ago used to bore me more than 12-laps-per-hour or the current knock-out format. Other series seem to be in agreement with F1, with a similar format (primarily thinking of DTM and IndyCar) so it can't be that wrong, can it?

But you get whole race to deal with traffic and to show skill in that department. My feeling is that in Q should be you, and start finish line. Pure time trial.

As for the boredom, yes, i agree with you, but format doesn't have to be single lap. Two laps maybe? And for added excitement, i think guys should drive in order from last one in last race to winner. That's the system they use in second drive in skiing or second jump in ski jumps ( although in those sports there's also acumulation of points from first session ) and, at least for me it makes quite a tension.

Oh, and i guess i made a blunder about that grid positon distance, never been on a track in my life.

I dunno. This is something we have in drag racing (in heads-up series anyway) and while it does reward Saturdays, it is kinda annoying when someone qualifies #1 and goes out first round and still scores more points than someone who quails P10 and somehow wins two rounds.

I'd have no problem with 1 point for pole though.

My feeling is that in Q should be you, and start finish line. Pure time trial.

I'd have no problem with 1 point for pole though.

I do like that idea. And, to be honest, would much rather have the 2003 qualifying format than the current one.
But unless there's a way to compensate the effect of track evolution, this system will be unbalanced, and probably unfair.

3 points for pole and 1 for 2nd... now the twist.... you can only get the points 5 times in a season... and they don't count to constructors championship only the drivers...

WeirdKerr wrote:3 points for pole and 1 for 2nd... now the twist.... you can only get the points 5 times in a season... and they don't count to constructors championship only the drivers...

Way too complicated, but i like the idea of only counting for the drivers championship.

Superleague Formula style qualifying with points attached would be interesting.

To be honest, I don't see why a point or two for pole and one for fastest lap would be a bad thing, in my opinion they are worthy of being rewarded with points. Nothing too large though, as that would be silly.

I suppose you have to make the points for pole and FL big enough to actually be an incentive, but not so big as to possibly have a crucial role in deciding the outcome of the championship.

Personally, I would give the drivers something like 4 points for pole and 2 for FL, but in 2011 that would have earned Vettel another 66 points, the equivalent of 2 to 3 wins.

I dont know, it means more possible points for Vettel

I think the real problem is that under todays point scheme, 1 point makes little difference to the top teams, but if you increase it too much, it may skew the title a bit. I honestly cant decide my view as I can see both sides for quali points.

People are saying quali points would help Vettel, but Hamilton would have had a hat full this year too.

So what if Vettel would score a lot of extra points, it's not like he doesn't deserve it. Vettel and Hamilton (and to a lesser extent Rosberg) are easily the best qualifying drivers, so they deserve to get some reward for it. Don't get me wrong, i absolutely dislike Vettel, but if he's fastest, well, then he is fastest. Perhaps a top 3 would be better, so a few drivers who don't have much to lose (like Massa or Grosjean) would actually take some extra risks, which would make things more exciting to watch.
Just like Gutierrez deserved some credit for his fastest lap!

1 point for the slowest completed lap in Q3. That way, none of this "get to choose your starting tyre" rubbish.

watka wrote:1 point for the slowest completed lap in Q3. That way, none of this "get to choose your starting tyre" rubbish.

That's actually an interesting post, it get's me to think about negative points. Legitimizing various aspects of rejectfullness both in Q and in race...

In NASCAR, the qualifying is rewarded by allowing drivers to race in a special race with a reward of money only. We may not even need points, but a special race at the end of the season for lets say the top 8 qualifying average drivers.

That would be nice.
An event with special cars ... wait that sounds like RoC hehe
But still, a Race of Qualifiers would be really cool. Shame most teams would not be very willing release their drivers

Onxy Wrecked wrote:In NASCAR, the qualifying is rewarded by allowing drivers to race in a special race with a reward of money only. We may not even need points, but a special race at the end of the season for lets say the top 8 qualifying average drivers.

What kind of money is involved in that special race, then? Or maybe a better question, what kind of money is involved in NASCAR in general, when there's a purely money motivation for a extra race at the end of a season?