Grand Prix Rejects

I found this and all I can say is discuss http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111289

Sad times for Williams fans when their team has fallen this far. I bet this is not what Damon Hill thought in his final year for the team, nor Mansell in 1992.

dr-baker wrote:Sad times for Williams fans when their team has fallen this far. I bet this is not what Damon Hill thought in his final year for the team, nor Mansell in 1992.

I doubt either of them were concerned about the future of the team when they were forced out...

Williams is going down the road that Lotus(Original) trodded in the end of 80s.. A great name and a great legacy but it was all lost... Brabham comes to mind as well. It has been so long since the last success that the name might no longer carry as much weight as it used to...

Still, Williams have managed to turn it around and have more than decent cars in several seasons, namely 2007 (to some extent), 2009 (the car deserved 3rd in the WCC, or very close, but Nakajima was useless) and 2012 (again, the car deserved 5th, but was let down by the drivers).

Sadly, all those were false dawns, and I've got strong doubts in their economy side after losing PDVSA...

I think with that attitude Maldonado has just talked himself out of a Lotus drive for next season. I certainly wouldn't hire him even if he had 50 bags of money

Sky talking heads mention Williams is not in financial dire straits even if they lose every penny of PDVSA. It should hert but wont kill them. They also seem to be on the right track with technical personnel and will get Merc engines and have Massa and Bottas. Even if they have a rough 2014 they might just be moving in the right direction. A team to watch for sure.

Pastor's style has never been too diplomatic or sugary. And while he can brag about winning and moan about the dog of a car, his DNF were rarely caused by mechanical failures and he has beached or crashed a car many many times more than he has capitalised on a potentially good result. He has speed to justify an F1 seat but his services don't come cheap, even with bags of money.

One word to some up Maldonado's comments

Yes, I can see why he's frustrated and it's natural that he wants to push on after his first (deserved) win BUT the fact that he so quick to point out other's errors without having any awareness of his own is mystifying, especially if he's trying to impress other teams. Much the same attitude as Nelson Piquet Jr. Remember him?

Sublime_FA11C wrote:Sky talking heads mention Williams is not in financial dire straits even if they lose every penny of PDVSA. It should hert but wont kill them. They also seem to be on the right track with technical personnel and will get Merc engines and have Massa and Bottas. Even if they have a rough 2014 they might just be moving in the right direction. A team to watch for sure.

Pastor's style has never been too diplomatic or sugary. And while he can brag about winning and moan about the dog of a car, his DNF were rarely caused by mechanical failures and he has beached or crashed a car many many times more than he has capitalised on a potentially good result. He has speed to justify an F1 seat but his services don't come cheap, even with bags of money.

The dog of a car could have been ill-handling enough to amplify any error Maldonado made. It might not have failed in a mechanical sense, but in handling and speed. Still doesn't make up for his frequent mistakes which could have lost position by being out of the racing groove in a better handling car.

watka wrote:One word to some up Maldonado's comments

Yes, I can see why he's frustrated and it's natural that he wants to push on after his first (deserved) win BUT the fact that he so quick to point out other's errors without having any awareness of his own is mystifying, especially if he's trying to impress other teams. Much the same attitude as Nelson Piquet Jr. Remember him?

I remember Piquet Jr. in the US, but not F1. I guess that's a good thing.

As for Maldonado, his attitude right now is very similar to Piquet Jr. I wish that drivers today would fess up to their own mistakes instaed of making up a lazy excuse, because even if they try covering it up, it doesn't get them any street cred. Remember, being honest even when making errors gets you more friends and supporters than the other way around. And I can say that even while Piquet is in the US right now, he blames everything on something else but himself. He has won a few races in NASCAR, but he does squat when he doesn't have a good car.

TV commentators often say that once you get that first win out of the way the confidence increases and more are possible. With Maldonado its as if its his sense of entitlement thats increased exponentially not just his confidence.

CoopsII wrote:TV commentators often say that once you get that first win out of the way the confidence increases and more are possible. With Maldonado its as if its his sense of entitlement thats increased exponentially not just his confidence.

Very well put Coops, that sums him up perfectly imo.

Now he's accusing Williams of sabotage against him.

I saw that outburst on Sky.

Wonder if Williams are looking at his contract very carefully and thinking about who to put in the car for Brazil?

IceG wrote:I saw that outburst on Sky.

Wonder if Williams are looking at his contract very carefully and thinking about who to put in the car for Brazil?

Susie Wolff?

Possibly one of the best bits of publicocrap I've heard this year is Claire Williams claiming that it's all amicable there

If Pastor Maldonado says much more, Williams should just kick him out for the last race, and give Susie Wolff a go in the car.

I feel sorry for Lotus if they have to take this idiot to keep their heads above water - yes they're done the trick with Grosjean but he never displayed this sort of attitude even when he used to crash all the time.

James1978 wrote:I feel sorry for Lotus if they have to take this idiot to keep their heads above water - yes they're done the trick with Grosjean but he never displayed this sort of attitude even when he used to crash all the time.

Agreed Grosjean just moves on and puts it behind him rather than shouting his mouth off all the time. I don't think Chris James would have said this either

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote: I don't think Chris James would have said this either

(not that I actually believe you...)

DG

Unlikely, but I'd like to see one of two things happen:

1. Massa goes over to Williams one race early and Raikkonen miraculously makes a full recovery in time to race for Ferrari in Brazil.

or

2. Bruno Senna makes a one-off appearance for Williams in Brazil with those sponsors of his (Gillette, Embratel, etc).

I'd be happy to see Maldonado go at the end of the year though. He's proven pretty unsavoury this year. We won't see Susie in the car in Brazil though that's for sure.

I also don't think we'll see Maldonado at Lotus in 2014, primarily because of Grosjean's Total backing. They're not going to have two rival oil companies on the car.

AndreaModa wrote:Unlikely, but I'd like to see one of two things happen:

1. Massa goes over to Williams one race early and Raikkonen miraculously makes a full recovery in time to race for Ferrari in Brazil.

Now that the operation is done there is no way for Kimi to race for quite a while, even in snowmobiles...

Good point about Total, i completely forgot that Grjn is sponsored by them. It's not a very prominent deal and he is not a pay driver so i kinda forgot about it. But i'm 99% sure that Maldonado is going to Lotus because without him the team folds before next year unless there is an 11th hour rescue package which i'm struggleing to even concieve right now.

When you dying for a
A Really big crash
Who ya gonna call?
PASTOR MALDONADO!!!

Sublime_FA11C wrote:Good point about Total, i completely forgot that Grjn is sponsored by them. It's not a very prominent deal and he is not a pay driver so i kinda forgot about it. But i'm 99% sure that Maldonado is going to Lotus because without him the team folds before next year unless there is an 11th hour rescue package which i'm struggleing to even concieve right now.

Particularly since there are reports that a senior official at PDVSA has talked about Maldonado going to Lotus, suggesting that the deal is indeed done (a bit like Bruno Senna's deal with Williams being announced by Bautista, the owner of the oil company (OGX) that was sponsoring him at the time).

Now, it is true that it would be unusual for two different oil companies - Total and PDVSA - to sponsor the team at the same time, although it isn't totally without precedent IIRC. I might be mistaken, but didn't Jordan carry sponsorship from Sasol whilst Irvine carried personal sponsorship from a rival oil producer? True, it would make the deal less likely given the complexities it would create when negotiating with their sponsors, but I guess that there would be ways around that if managed carefully.

mario wrote:Now, it is true that it would be unusual for two different oil companies - Total and PDVSA - to sponsor the team at the same time, although it isn't totally without precedent IIRC. I might be mistaken, but didn't Jordan carry sponsorship from Sasol whilst Irvine carried personal sponsorship from a rival oil producer? True, it would make the deal less likely given the complexities it would create when negotiating with their sponsors, but I guess that there would be ways around that if managed carefully.

The company here in question is Cosmo Oil, who didn't seem to mind too much and were greatful for the exposure when Irvine hooked up with Jordan in 1993. However, Sasol didn't know about it and rival teams figured that if they could out the deal, they could lure Sasol's rands to their teams. I believe Jordan had to tell a little lie and say Cosmo was a magazine to keep with Sasol onside.

However, I don't think that in this day and age it's an entirely conceivable idea that Total and PDVSA could sponsor the same team at once, especially when companies (especially in Formula 1) are getting touchier about affiliating themselves with others of a similar nature. However, as it's a state-owned oil company there's always a chance that they could divert attention to perhaps other pies the Venezuelan state have their fingers in.

Now would be a great time for Lotus to throw a curveball and sign Sergio Perez for 2014.

What a div this guy's turning into.

andrew2209 wrote:Now would be a great time for Lotus to throw a curveball and sign Nico Hulkenberg for 2014.

Of course, if its money they're after, why not just go the whole hog and sign someone like Chilton? I mean, it would be like running a dead weight in the second car, but Aon are a massive multinational, not like they're short of a bob or two.

You're all assuming Grosjean is driving the Lotus for 2014, but that hasn't been confirmed yet, as far as i know...

Now of course, they would be mad to drop the ever improving Grosjean and the security of the Total sponsorship for the gamble that are Maldonado and PVDSA.

This wrote:You're all assuming Grosjean is driving the Lotus for 2014, but that hasn't been confirmed yet, as far as i know...

Now of course, they would be mad to drop the ever improving Grosjean and the security of the Total sponsorship for the gamble that are Maldonado and PVDSA.

Actually, come to think of it, you're absolutely right. The plot thickens...