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No Sauber next year?
Posted: 22 Nov 2009, 16:45
by kaiserfranz
http://www.sonntagszeitung.ch/home/arti ... sid=108305According to this article (in German, couldn't find a link in English) there are no investors behind Qadbak at all (as has been suspected before) and it is all just a making-money-scheme by a known conman named Russell King who apparently is also behind Bahrain Capital International who have guaranteed the money with which Qadbak was supposed to buy BMW's formula 1 team.
I tried google translator for this article but of course it's just gibberish. What it boils down to is that the sale will not go through and it is looking highly likely that there won't be 13 teams on the grid next year.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 22 Nov 2009, 16:48
by shinji
Until at the end of November wants to publish the international automobile haven federation FIA the starting list of the Formel-1-Saison 2010 - and still clean waits for a starting license. In vain, because the sale of BMW-cleanly to the society Qadbak will burst: The Near East there are not the rich investors from at all. Behind Qadbak stands only financial juggler Russell King, a validly condemned cheat, who is located this very day in the visor of the penal jurisdiction on jersey. King held companies such as BMW and the bank Rothschild to the fool. But King does not have the means, in order to take over the running universe. There is no bank guarantee for the fact that the purchase price is paid by Qadbak at BMW. Garantin is Bahrain Capital international. Also this company is an empty covering. And also behind it Russell King stands. It issued itself as it were a warranty. Searches of the Sunday newspaper show that. Kings idea: If Qadbak/clean receives a starting point for the next season, immediately millions flow - starting funds, funds from coverage right, travel and transportation privileges. Whether the automobile federation gives the license to the team, is however completely open. Meanwhile Peter Sauber, BMW and also the bank Rothschild continues to be silent.
Makes some sense to me. Maybe that's 'cos I'm a linguistic genius.
It's time, Zoran.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 22 Nov 2009, 17:44
by Yannick
The rumours of Russell King and a possible fraud being involved in the BMW/Qadbak deal have been circulating on English language F1 sites for a while already. It would be a really big shame if the fate of the Sauber team were to be pulled apart and sold off by the fraud squad.
It looks like Russell King's chances of getting the prestigious Reject Of the Year award are growing.
It is known that the Qadbak deal doesn't go through if the team does not get a grid slot. But can BMW sell to somebody else now that the Qadbak deal stinks? Or would they have to pay out Russell King's organisation then?
Here's hoping that Willy Rampf's people can still build a competitive charger for next season, despite all the hassle on the business side of things. It would be great to see it racing as well.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 22 Nov 2009, 18:32
by DemocalypseNow
Yannick wrote:The rumours of Russell King and a possible fraud being involved in the BMW/Qadbak deal have been circulating on English language F1 sites for a while already. It would be a really big shame if the fate of the Sauber team were to be pulled apart and sold off by the fraud squad.
It looks like Russell King's chances of getting the prestigious Reject Of the Year award are growing.
It is known that the Qadbak deal doesn't go through if the team does not get a grid slot. But can BMW sell to somebody else now that the Qadbak deal stinks? Or would they have to pay out Russell King's organisation then?
Here's hoping that Willy Rampf's people can still build a competitive charger for next season, despite all the hassle on the business side of things. It would be great to see it racing as well.
I am no lawyer but my basic understanding is if Qadbak violates their contract somehow (e.g. defaulting payments) it can be cancelled via a court of law (as long as the get-out clauses are satisfied then this is a formality and not some massive court case that lasts for weeks).
And it turns out I was wrong. It's turning out to be even more of a farce than Andrea Moda. They get nicked for fraud before they even get to race. It seemed a little suspicious buying a team the same day it had been turned town for an entry next season...
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 22 Nov 2009, 21:23
by Phoenix
I am not surprised...not surprised at all...I suspected it.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 22 Nov 2009, 22:05
by Cynon
I think if Sauber were honestly going to be on the grid by next season they would have announced as much after Toyota folded and the FIA would have confirmed them -- or something to that effect.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 22 Nov 2009, 22:33
by Captain Hammer
Cynon wrote:I think if Sauber were honestly going to be on the grid by next season they would have announced as much after Toyota folded and the FIA would have confirmed them -- or something to that effect.
Sauber was in no position to declare that - when Toyota withdrew, their grid position defaulted to the FIA, who had the right to issue it as they saw fit. The have not given it to Sauber because they are chasing up legal action against Toyota, who signed the Concorde Agreemet only to withdraw.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 23 Nov 2009, 11:06
by DemocalypseNow
Well here is Mario Theissen's position on all this...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80312
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 25 Nov 2009, 22:55
by Waris
This doesn't look too good.
When I google Russell King, all I get is contradictory information.
I hope the team either turns out to be saved, or they can sell it to someone else who can save it.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 26 Nov 2009, 15:56
by homerbhoy
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 26 Nov 2009, 16:00
by dragonsteincole
So potentially America could have two US teams to root for. And I bet there's still not be an yank driver between them both.
But props to Sauber if this does happen, would be a shame to lose a good team.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 26 Nov 2009, 16:25
by Debaser
I believe this Qadbak organisation bought Notts County football club, and that was marked by them spending shedloads on Sven Goran Erikkson to be in some role and Sol Campbell to be centre-half. Since then Campbell walked out after one game and the attention they had has disappeared. I'm suspicious about this mob, you get a lot of conspiracy theories and whispers about them being fraudulent or simply having hardly any money. Hopefully a Toyota team of some sort will get the last entry.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 26 Nov 2009, 18:17
by Waris
Waris wrote:I hope [...] they can sell it to someone else who can save it.
Yay, I turned out to be right! Or so it seems.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 26 Nov 2009, 22:37
by DemocalypseNow
Yes, its just a case of getting an entry.
I was speaking to a Sauber employee and he says their future is 100% assured now.
If it were anyone else I'd say they were talking balderdash but this guy is inside the team...
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 27 Nov 2009, 10:42
by rffp
Braking news:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80350At least the guy ahead of the Hinwill team is a real motorsport person and not some hack that would certainly bring the team to its doom.
I really hope they can find a berth in the 2010 season, it would be a shame for a team with more than 30 years of history to disappear.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 27 Nov 2009, 13:34
by Enrique Bernoldi
rffp wrote:Braking news:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80350At least the guy ahead of the Hinwill team is a real motorsport person and not some hack that would certainly bring the team to its doom.
I really hope they can find a berth in the 2010 season, it would be a shame for a team with more than 30 years of history to disappear.
This is excellent news - let's hope they're on the grid come march next year.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 27 Nov 2009, 13:55
by Ed24
Yes, it will be great to see Sauber back again!
Its such a pity that BMW screwed them by not signing the contracts before the Concorde Agreement was signed, as it would have secured their future much earlier.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 27 Nov 2009, 15:15
by Yannick
Ed24 wrote:Yes, it will be great to see Sauber back again!
Its such a pity that BMW screwed them by not signing the contracts before the Concorde Agreement was signed, as it would have secured their future much earlier.
Agreed. That and the Qadbak deal which fell through and their way of dealing with KERS and their performance this season surely will earb BMW the prestigious award that this website hands out at the end of each year.
It is good news to have Peter Sauber back at the helm. Here's hoping that they get their grid places soon. And if Qadbak were to sue anyone for breach of contract because they did not get the team, they'd surely not sue the team but BMW itself.
Let's hope they focus all their energy on their new car, so they'll be back in the Top 4 next season.
Btw, the German word "Sauber" does not only translate to English as "clean" but also as "neat". It even has the colloquial meaning of neat, which is something like great, cool, etc.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 27 Nov 2009, 15:49
by mario
However, it appears that there may be a bit of a problem on the horizon if this rumour turns out to be true
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/ ... f-cologne/Now, this will raise a dilemma amongst many here - do we want to see Stefan GP on the grid, in the (extremely likely) tradition of F1 Rejects, but at the possible expense of Sauber, an old fashioned racer at heart?
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 27 Nov 2009, 15:54
by Salamander
mario wrote:However, it appears that there may be a bit of a problem on the horizon if this rumour turns out to be true
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/ ... f-cologne/Now, this will raise a dilemma amongst many here - do we want to see Stefan GP on the grid, in the (extremely likely) tradition of F1 Rejects, but at the possible expense of Sauber, an old fashioned racer at heart?
Hopefully Renault pull out, then we'll see both. If Toyota sell their entry to Stefan GP, then they'll be in ahead of Sauber - otherwise, it'll be Sauber first. They'll probably both work on their team's anyway, seeing as one of the four new teams could easily not make it to the grid in Bahrain next year.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 27 Nov 2009, 15:57
by kaiserfranz
Oh my God! I didn't think they actually had a chance of getting on the grid ever.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 27 Nov 2009, 16:06
by DemocalypseNow
The scenario I'd like to see is Stefan GP taking Toyota's entry, then Renault scaling back to solely supplying engines from their Viry factory and Sauber taking their entry.
We don't need Renault's controversy in this sport, but we do need their engines, or the sport will become even more monotonous.
And the Renault brand as whole would probably disappear anyway, as its Mecachrome that builds their engines for them.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 27 Nov 2009, 16:14
by mario
kaiserfranz wrote:Oh my God! I didn't think they actually had a chance of getting on the grid ever.
Nor did I, but Stefan does seem like the sort of guy who will try anything he can to get his place on the grid. It's a shame, and because he can buy an entry from a team that signed up to the new Concorde agreement, Stefan GP will be getting Toyota's cut of the revenues, but Sauber won't get that financial security unless he can do the same thing.
Perhaps, if Toyota do sel their entry to Stefan GP, the most likely way back in would be for Renault to sell it's entry (if it pulls out, which is no guarantee) to Sauber - but either way, somebody will be burned in the process. And, of course, that would shake up the driver market again - Kubica would be back on the market, and there would be a quite different car available.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 27 Nov 2009, 16:24
by rffp
It would be a shame for Renault to go, since this team goes back to the 80s when it was Toleman.
The Enstone team is the same that gave Ayrton Senna his first break in F-1, besides when it was Benetton, it was the team that gave the Legend the chance to climb onto the podium.
I hope that Stefan GP does not find a way into the grid since he would only waste our time.
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 27 Nov 2009, 16:31
by DemocalypseNow
rffp wrote:When it was Benetton, it was the team that gave the Legend the chance to climb onto the podium.
Yes but when they replaced him with Schumi they clearly regretted it, drank their sorrows away and ended up in the gutter, so they had to cheat their way to two titles. They have never recovered from the shock of giving Moreno the boot...
Re: No Sauber next year?
Posted: 27 Nov 2009, 16:35
by rffp
kostas22 wrote:Yes but when they replaced him with Schumi they clearly regretted it, drank their sorrows away and ended up in the gutter, so they had to cheat their way to two titles. They have never recovered from the shock of giving Moreno the boot...
For that Briatore should be forever banned from motorsport! The Crashgate episode is just a pretext!