Grand Prix Rejects

One can say that Spa is Kimi's home. One can say that Daniel Ricciardo is going to win again. All we know is that this is Spa Francorchamps.

And the best way to start a GP thread? With a joke.

That 'joke' gets 'funnier': In the same linked article, Honda reckons that the next spec of engine (over the winter) will then match Mercedes!

Indeed, it was interesting to read the Honda boss saying that the engine they ran in Hungary was “much better than Renault”. He went on to say McLaren’s chassis is still quite a way behind Red Bull, primarily down to lack of mileage. On the other hand I remember Ron Dennis at Silverstone saying that McLaren’s chassis was second only to Mercedes. Something doesn't quite add up.

As for Honda aiming to match Ferrari’s engine performance in Spa, well it’s a lovely dream…

The new start procedure rules come into effect this weekend, and already Toto Wolff is unhappy.

Toto Wolff wrote:What none of us want is completely unpredictable starts for everybody which then completely devalues qualifying.

I'm reading that quote as "god forbid Hamilton has to actually race against other cars to the first corner"...

Read it as anything you want Londoner, it's only the usual waffle that the press just can't resist publishing.

Having read what the actual changes are, to be honest I really don't think it's going to change much anyway. It's not like they're going to a foot clutch or whatever.

AndreaModa wrote:Read it as anything you want Londoner, it's only the usual waffle that the press just can't resist publishing.

Having read what the actual changes are, to be honest I really don't think it's going to change much anyway. It's not like they're going to a foot clutch or whatever.

Thank you for confirming that my scepticism about the new start procedure isn't just me being a joyless tosspot and is an opinion shared by normal human beings.

LeytonHouse wrote:Indeed, it was interesting to read the Honda boss saying that the engine they ran in Hungary was “much better than Renault”. He went on to say McLaren’s chassis is still quite a way behind Red Bull, primarily down to lack of mileage. On the other hand I remember Ron Dennis at Silverstone saying that McLaren’s chassis was second only to Mercedes. Something doesn't quite add up.

As for Honda aiming to match Ferrari’s engine performance in Spa, well it’s a lovely dream…

It doesn't really matter how powerful the engine is if it either breaks down or has to be constantly detuned in order for the drivers not to run out of fuel - even then, I certainly have to question whether Honda really was producing as much power as they claim. Whilst McLaren did fairly well in Hungary, I expect that was down to the extended safety car removing the need to save fuel - the Honda engine is known to suffer from higher than average fuel consumption - so the result is especially flattering in that scenario.

As for matching Ferrari - well, I know that Honda claim to have made a number of major changes to their engine (to the shape of the combustion chamber and to the intake and exhaust systems) and some Honda engineers have reportedly been working round the clock to fix their engine recently, but I would be very surprised if Honda have managed to make up that much of a performance difference.

In somewhat unrelated news, my parents are spending the Sunday in Spa. However, because this has nothing to do with the race, I will not be joining them. Because tickets are expensive.

That being said, I was supposed to go with some guys from my Formula Student team, but those plans died when they realised FS Hungary is this weekend. Oh well.

tommykl wrote:That being said, I was supposed to go with some guys from my Formula Student team, but those plans died when they realised FS Hungary is this weekend. Oh well.

Good luck to your FS team! Will you let us know how they get on?

dr-baker wrote:

tommykl wrote:That being said, I was supposed to go with some guys from my Formula Student team, but those plans died when they realised FS Hungary is this weekend. Oh well.

Good luck to your FS team! Will you let us know how they get on?

Well, things are going relatively well this year, P6 at Silverstone and P20-something at Hockenheim, so we're hoping for a good result

For the Predicament Predictions, I think we can now add another point WSOTR (Worst Start of the Race) basically who will do a Mark Webber circa 2004 - qualifies brilliantly, and then loses the most amount of positions off the line.

razta wrote:For the Predicament Predictions, I think we can now add another point WSOTR (Worst Start of the Race) basically who will do a Mark Webber circa 2004 - qualifies brilliantly, and then loses the most amount of positions off the line.

Isn't that going to be heavily biased towards the two Mercedes drivers though? Given that, as things stand, you would expect at least one (and usually both) of those two drivers to be on the front row, they are really in a position where they can only really lose places rather than make them up.

can we also add a Number of Penalties pastor will get? (NOPPWG)?

-1 Rear Wings: Confirmed.

razta wrote:For the Predicament Predictions, I think we can now add another point WSOTR (Worst Start of the Race) basically who will do a Mark Webber circa 2004 - qualifies brilliantly, and then loses the most amount of positions off the line.

WeirdKerr wrote:can we also add a Number of Penalties pastor will get? (NOPPWG)?

I'd have to change my spreadsheets. So no.

Maldonado antics strike again.

Damn it Pastor. Just why... why you do this?

Miguel98 wrote:Damn it Pastor. Just why... why you do this?

I only saw one clip but it looked like there was some gravel spread across the track prior to Pastor arriving at full speed. If so he was, once again, a bit unlucky.

CoopsII wrote:

Miguel98 wrote:Damn it Pastor. Just why... why you do this?

I only saw one clip but it looked like there was some gravel spread across the track prior to Pastor arriving at full speed. If so he was, once again, a bit unlucky.

The gravel in question was located after the end of the kerbing on the exit of the corner - on the onboard you can hear the torque spike and the wheelspin between the apex and the exit kerbing. Unfortunately, on this occasion, Pastor made a legitimate driving mistake. It's a shame because for every incident that is of his own doing, two or three others had mitigating factors, but they all add up and the many that weren't all his doing get lumped in with the handful that were his.

Anyway, I saw Brundle chastising him for this particular incident, as simply being one of many that means he doesn't deserve his place in Formula 1. He's not world champion material, but it feels like everyone is happily glossing over the fact he is a race winner, and not a fluke race winner either (after all, how can you call beating Alonso in a WDC-capable Ferrari, and hammering your team-mate who is stuck down in the midfield, a fluke?).

He's right when he says he only keeps his drive for the paycheck. Nobody would hire him otherwise because the media and fans have made such a concerted effort to make him the butt of a joke. Whether a reputation has been gained justly or not, once it sticks it's extremely hard to shake. I feel for him, because no matter what good he does, no matter if someone really goes into detail and realises Maldonado has at least been on a par with Grosjean since arriving at Lotus, on the surface you see him being involved in incidents, you see his points tally and based on just those superficial attributes, the common man will come to the conclusion he is a complete pleb.

Just when you thought this saga was over...



Also, McLaren have a combined 55 place grid penalty for Sunday. This is beyond a joke.

The 55 grid penalty is in order for JB and Alonso to start in the Nurburgring, in order to sign their WEC contracts for 2016.

Miguel98 wrote:The 55 grid penalty is in order for JB and Alonso to start in the Nurburgring, in order to sign their WEC contracts for 2016.

The Nurburgring, that's close to Stuttgart, right?

dr-baker wrote:

Miguel98 wrote:The 55 grid penalty is in order for JB and Alonso to start in the Nurburgring, in order to sign their WEC contracts for 2016.

The Nurburgring, that's close to Stuttgart, right?

It's closer to Köln, Toyota Europe's base.

East Londoner wrote:Just when you thought this saga was over...

Also, McLaren have a combined 55 place grid penalty for Sunday. This is beyond a joke.

VanDerGod was there to have a discussion with Toto Wolff over DTM, actually. But a tweet mentioning 'Don't worry Sauber' made that Kaltenborn wanted to deny his access. The actual reason why his access was denied was because he applied too late and therefore used a GP2 access instead. Or something like that.

dr-baker wrote:

Miguel98 wrote:The 55 grid penalty is in order for JB and Alonso to start in the Nurburgring, in order to sign their WEC contracts for 2016.

The Nurburgring, that's close to Stuttgart, right?

Nuremburg is close to Stuttgart 2 or 3 hours by train But the Nurburgring isnt

And Alonso's FP3 is over. Does that make it 65 grid places for penalties?
Edit: apparently it might just be the exhaust.

Mercedes, on the harder compound, 0.300 quicker than Ferrari in the soft compound. bathplug my life.

Even when Raikkonen isn't messing up, the car does it for him! Again!

The Mercs are a second a lap faster than anybody else O_o

Hamilton ~1.5 seconds faster than Bottas in third.

Grosjean P4!
PEREZ P5!

And what is Ferrari doing....

Miguel98 wrote:Grosjean P4!
PEREZ P5!

And what is Ferrari doing....

It's a shame that Grosjean has a grid penalty for a gearbox change coming up, but that was a very impressive lap from him - equally, Perez has punched above his weight too and could cause issues for some teams given he is mightily quick in the first sector (consistently setting the best first sector times). The two Mercedes drivers might be miles ahead up front, but it looks like we're going to have a pretty tight battle between quite a few drivers behind them.

As for Ferrari - it looked good earlier in the session, but it all went downhill from there. Kimi's problems sound fairly terminal for that engine - Ferrari are saying that he had a drop in oil pressure - so he will have a tough race if he has to take an engine penalty.

As for Vettel, I'm quite surprised that he was so far off the pace - he'd been pretty evenly matched against Williams earlier in the session, but his times just dropped off there at the end. He'll get a place back with Grosjean's penalty, but a lower than expected starting slot and changed grid starting procedures might leave him feeling a little anxious.

Shizuka wrote:And Alonso's FP3 is over. Does that make it 65 grid places for penalties?
Edit: apparently it might just be the exhaust.

According to Autosport, McLaren's penalties add to 105 in total!

dr-baker wrote:

Shizuka wrote:And Alonso's FP3 is over. Does that make it 65 grid places for penalties?
Edit: apparently it might just be the exhaust.

According to Autosport, McLaren's penalties add to 105 in total!

They will have their own grid painted at Blachimont... or maybe further!

AxelP800 wrote:

dr-baker wrote:

Shizuka wrote:And Alonso's FP3 is over. Does that make it 65 grid places for penalties?
Edit: apparently it might just be the exhaust.

According to Autosport, McLaren's penalties add to 105 in total!

They will have their own grid painted at Blachimont... or maybe further!

Maybe start the race 4 miles behind. Or give them the front row and ask them to do a 45 lap race?

McLaren should start from Brussels

I am currently painting two grid spots outside my house for the McLarens to start from.

tommykl wrote:I am currently painting two grid spots outside my house for the McLarens to start from.

remember the yellow things

dr-baker wrote:

Shizuka wrote:And Alonso's FP3 is over. Does that make it 65 grid places for penalties?
Edit: apparently it might just be the exhaust.

According to Autosport, McLaren's penalties add to 105 in total!

That's extreme.

Why not a historic Rally Monte Carlo style start? All their penalties mean they have to start the race from Woking and drive to the track before starting their racing laps.

Biscione wrote:Why not a historic Rally Monte Carlo style start? All their penalties mean they have to start the race from Woking and drive to the track before starting their racing laps.

Could be an interesting rule for the non-European races (particularly Melbourne!). Better get Chitty Chitty Bang Bang ready for that stage of the race! (With Count Louis Zborowski as car consultant, perhaps? )