Grand Prix Rejects

Good morning everyone

I'm happy to announce the Grand Prix Rejects content drought has finally been broken, and what better way to do it than to profile one of the legends of pre-qualifying from 30 years ago. It's finally time for AGS to take centre stage as our latest Team Profile!

In a bumper three-part epic, our very own dinizintheoven has spent the last couple of months furiously researching the entire AGS saga, digging deep to interpret Henri Julian's story as best we could with the available facts. The fruits of his work can be enjoyed from this morning, with Partie A of the AGS story ready to read today!

The Saga of AGS - Partie A:Allons, Enfants de la Patrie!

This was an on-and-off project for three months that took a hell of a lot of time and effort, and after conceiving the concept eight years ago, it's about time it was done. This the right time to do so, as well: as I said on the other thread, but it bears repeating today, the original Formula One Rejects site was founded 20 years ago this year and never profiled AGS, despite seemingly every other backmarker team that was eligible from the 1980s and 1990s being included (and Osella were not eligible, if only just). I'd like to think that Jamie and Enoch will take a look at my efforts and be thinking to themselves: "Bonza".

Trying to chart the early history of AGS during the Formule Renault Europe days was particularly tricky as the series was not rigorously documented, and quite a lot of the information out there is hearsay, or various sources conflict with each other, and the only way to verify what actually happened was to be there at the time. A French website that attempts to recover as many of the documents as possible from all national racing series that it can has only threadbare details. I would then go on to find that even the second tier series, F2 and F3000 (at least between 1978 and 1986, the period I was looking at), have recorded discrepancies as to who was competing in which races, and in which chassis. There is even the odd ambiguity in F1 that I would need to whip out my time machine to sort out absolutely...

So the important thing to remember is: I have gone out of my way to find out what is fact and what is not, but where there were such discrepancies, this is my interpretation of the events, some of which were before I was born (including all of the Formule Renault Europe days). Maybe some of what I've said will turn out not to be correct - but this is not, and was never intended to be, "fake news".

The list of sources was far too extensive to add to the article (it was intended to be at the end of the third part), so I'm posting it here. Are you sitting uncomfortably close to the ground at 180-odd mph? Then I'll begin.

Extensively used websites:
• Forix – http://forix.com/ – pretty much everything AGS F1-related
• Stats F1 – https://www.statsf1.com/en/default.aspx# – checking details for AGS cars against Forix
• Driver Database – https://www.driverdb.com/ – useful for Formule France & Formule Renault Europe results in particular
• Motorsport Magazine results database – https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/database – useful for F2 and F3000, less so for French national series
• Wikipedia – articles in English, French and German (yes, all three) on Henri Julien, Christian Vanderpleyn, Guy Nègre, the AGS team, all AGS F1 cars, the 1986-1991 F1 seasons, the 1985-86 F3000 seasons, and the 1978-84 F2 seasons
• Old Racing Cars – https://www.oldracingcars.com/ – more pre-F1 results for AGS
• F2 register – http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk/formula2/ – detailed F2 results; also contains proof of the 1972 AGS F3 experience
• Ultimate Racing History – http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/ra ... ?year=1985 – 1985 page contains the details of F3000 missing from Motorsport Magazine's database
• Archives Sport Auto – http://www.archivesportauto.fr/ – an archives of scanned documents from French national racing series
• Bandeira Verde blog – https://bandeiraverde.com.br/tag/ags/ – 51,000 words in 18 articles, in Portuguese, going into far more detail than I ever could!

Books and magazines:
• The Great Encyclopedia of Formula One 1950-2000 – Pierre Ménard
• The Complete History of Grand Prix Motor Racing – Adriano Cimarosti
• BBC Grand Prix 91

Videos:
• Duke Video – official F1 season reviews, 1986-1991
• ThePizZaGeRmAnY's YouTube channel – contains full F1 races from the 1986-1991 period from Swiss TV (but we'd better not say that too loud!)

Forums (yes, there are a couple of threads on this forum that I didn't forget):
• https://www.gprejects.com/forum/viewtop ... f=9&t=6058 – bigears' newspaper cuttings about AGS in F1
• https://www.gprejects.com/forum/viewtop ... f=2&t=4057 – a brief summary of AGS' history by deivison (in Portuguese)
• http://www.autodiva.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12 (requires registration) – a huge amount of AGS history and a lot of photos
• http://www.autodiva.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=440 (requires registration) – more information on MGN and Guy Nègre than I was ever likely to need
• http://forum-auto.caradisiac.com/sport- ... 378522.htm – still in French, covers similar ground to the Autodiva thread, but anyone can read it
• http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=93963 – photos of AGS cars, with the thread written in English
• http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=91996 – as above
• http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=77440 – Philippe Streiff's accident

Individual articles:
• http://cliptheapex.com/threads/the-garagistes.6315/ – the opening "garagistes" quotation
• https://www.newsclassicracing.com/J-ai- ... 01e-pilote – "la saison 1971 chez AGS" with Marcel Gougeon
• https://forums.autosport.com/topic/1937 ... 1977-1978/ – who was "Steve"?
• http://8w.forix.com/dallest.html – more on Richard Dallest's F2 career
• https://drivetribe.com/p/dirty-dozen-19 ... 0GbPfuqbwg – Drivetribe article on the MGN W12
• https://www.carmrades-blog.com/all-arti ... m6-mgn-w12 – the MGN W12 and the Norma M6 Group C car
• https://www.unracedf1.com/ags-jh26-and- ... e-f1-team/ – the AGS JH26 wind tunnel model
• https://web.archive.org/web/20070714201 ... page_id=73 – the legend of the Gonfaron flying donkey, which turns into an AGS-related article
• https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arch ... resistance – some extra background
• http://www.philippe.streiff.com/en/ – Philippe Streiff's website, contains some useful points#

I also have far, far more photos than have been inserted into the three parts of the article. My loyal proofreader, CaptainGetz12, has requested that I put them all into a forum post. I will do so, here, when all three parts have been published.

What a read, equal parts entertaining and informative. And given how informative it is, especially on AGS's early years, you can tell how entertaining it was. Seriously, can't wait for part two and three.

Probably should remind myself to get back to that Tecno profile I'm working on that's been collecting dust for a little while now...

This is a phenomenal article, and what a great way to put content back into the site! Congratulations diniz!

It kept me hyped all throughout, the writing was on point and with a touch of humour, really great.

Really hoping for more here in the last two parts!

As a proofreader for this multi-part article I hope my edits make the article more fluid to read, and I am glad to have played a part in adding more content to the gprejects site!

CaptainGetz12 wrote:As a proofreader for this multi-part article I hope my edits make the article more fluid to read, and I am glad to have played a part in adding more content to the gprejects site!

I'm sure you'll notice which bits I changed, where I changed them - and that I had to make a few further edits in the photo-inserting stage!

Huge cheers for doing that proof-reading, and kudos to anyone who's read Partie A so far instead of going out on a Friday night for lager, kebabs and a fight. The departed spirits of James Hunt and Oliver Reed may not approve of your choice, but I do.

The second part of the AGS epic is now ready to read, featuring far more than the recommended serving suggestion of Pascal Fabre and Philippe Streiff.

The Saga of AGS – Partie G: Gonfaron au Niveau Plus Haut

No idea where Eastie is today - maybe the Sky coverage of the race build-up (which I will watch later) is just that thrilling? Not quite as thrilling, though - especially given the way the 2019 F1 season is progressing - as the third and concluding part of the Saga of AGS. This is the longest of the three parts, quite fittingly seeing as today is race day - which, as you are all aware merely by reading this site - is something AGS became ever less familiar with during the time period this third part covers.

The Saga of AGS – Partie S: Sans Henri, Sans Garage, Sans Avenir…

With only the mildest of apologies to Eastie for stealing his thunder with the "Publish" button, if it's any consolation, I can't access the GPR Faceache or Twatter accounts, and I have deleted my original personal account on the former, and have left the latter completely fallow for the last three years... and it's all for the best.

dinizintheoven wrote:No idea where Eastie is today - maybe the Sky coverage of the race build-up (which I will watch later) is just that thrilling? Not quite as thrilling, though - especially given the way the 2019 F1 season is progressing - as the third and concluding part of the Saga of AGS. This is the longest of the three parts, quite fittingly seeing as today is race day - which, as you are all aware merely by reading this site - is something AGS became ever less familiar with during the time period this third part covers.

The Saga of AGS – Partie S: Sans Henri, Sans Garage, Sans Avenir…

With only the mildest of apologies to Eastie for stealing his thunder with the "Publish" button, if it's any consolation, I can't access the GPR Faceache or Twatter accounts, and I have deleted my original personal account on the former, and have left the latter completely fallow for the last three years... and it's all for the best.

I was planning to publish the last part after the race. No worries, I'll get the social media done shortly.

Despite the fact that I obviously have a vested interest in this series of articles (ha ha!) I must say that this has made for a brilliantly entertaining read this weekend - congrats all round.

Well dinizintheoven, I have to congratulate you for your efforts there - given the relatively low key nature of the team, you have done well to put together as complete a picture as it is likely to be possible to get, and with a wry touch too.

I have to admit that your efforts have, in turn, prompted me to turn my attentions to something that I've been doing a bit of off and on work on - a successor piece to the Yamaha OX88, which is an article on the OX99. Having drafted up an article, I am at a point where I was thinking of submitting it - maybe yourself or East Londoner might be able to take a look at the article and could perhaps provide some feedback on it?

mario wrote:Well dinizintheoven, I have to congratulate you for your efforts there - given the relatively low key nature of the team, you have done well to put together as complete a picture as it is likely to be possible to get, and with a wry touch too.

As I said to CaptainGetz12 in his proofreading session - I always wanted to make sure that everyone knew it was me that had written it, even if I hadn't put my name on it...

mario wrote:I have to admit that your efforts have, in turn, prompted me to turn my attentions to something that I've been doing a bit of off and on work on - a successor piece to the Yamaha OX88, which is an article on the OX99. Having drafted up an article, I am at a point where I was thinking of submitting it - maybe yourself or East Londoner might be able to take a look at the article and could perhaps provide some feedback on it?

A good mate of mine says something along the lines of "pay your dues, even if it's to someone else". Not those exact words as such, but what he means is - he's bought me a lot of pints when I've been in hard times, but doesn't expect to receive those back as long as I buy pints for others in the future, when they need it. So if you want my proofreading services on an OX99 article, I can at least check it for typos and the like, though my technical knowledge is not going to be in the same league!

In the epilogue, i'd like to add that the Gillet Vertigo Streiff (the most known evolution of the vertigo, probably together with the 5 model) was named in honour of him.

dinizintheoven wrote:

mario wrote:Well dinizintheoven, I have to congratulate you for your efforts there - given the relatively low key nature of the team, you have done well to put together as complete a picture as it is likely to be possible to get, and with a wry touch too.

As I said to CaptainGetz12 in his proofreading session - I always wanted to make sure that everyone knew it was me that had written it, even if I hadn't put my name on it...

mario wrote:I have to admit that your efforts have, in turn, prompted me to turn my attentions to something that I've been doing a bit of off and on work on - a successor piece to the Yamaha OX88, which is an article on the OX99. Having drafted up an article, I am at a point where I was thinking of submitting it - maybe yourself or East Londoner might be able to take a look at the article and could perhaps provide some feedback on it?

A good mate of mine says something along the lines of "pay your dues, even if it's to someone else". Not those exact words as such, but what he means is - he's bought me a lot of pints when I've been in hard times, but doesn't expect to receive those back as long as I buy pints for others in the future, when they need it. So if you want my proofreading services on an OX99 article, I can at least check it for typos and the like, though my technical knowledge is not going to be in the same league!

It would be appreciated if you could give it a review - could you PM me your e-mail address so I can send the draft across to you?

Simply terrific work, thank you. Really interesting . And I can only imagine the difficulties of finding reliable info for some of this. Thanks again

Jim, this is fabulous! Thank you so much for your time and efforts writing it!

may I be so bold to criticize the article a little bit?
The article ridicules AGS for not having a carbon element under the airbox, but in fact, it was a fairly new design element in 1989. March didn't have one, Larrousse didn't have one, Williams didn't have one, neither did Zakspeed, Osella, Rial, Onyx, Ligier, Eurobrun, Coloni, not even Ferrari had one!
I'm not sure about the others.

Sure McLaren, Arrows and Lotus had one, but it was a fairly new invention. The above the head air intake was a big leap forward in itself, refining the idea took time. I know for a fact that Williams didn't have one in 1990 either, so it wasn't AGS who were backward, it was McLaren, Lotus and Arrows who were innovative and ahead of their time!

Otherwise the articles are great, but this one really bothered me

I suppose it's a fair point, so I should explain - seeing the AGS mechanic fitting the alleged-airbox directly over the existing bodywork set my reject alarm off - it's exactly what I'd expect from 80s and early 90s backmarkers, most of which you've mentioned, and I'd have made the same point had I been writing the article about Coloni, Rial or Eurobrun instead. Williams and Ferrari I'm surprised by, though - Ligier as well, unless that referred to the rather crude way the 1988 car suddenly sprouted a rather ungainly airbox.

"Ridicule" is rather a strong word, and that was certainly not my intention - nor was it Jamie and Enoch's intention 20 years ago, if the F1 Rejects subtitle "A tribute to the heroic failures of Grand Prix racing" was anything to go by. I am going to take an educated guess that English isn't your first language before continuing...

You would guess right, but even after re-reading that part it feels like a bit out of the "respectful and reverent" zone. But maybe it's just me. I didn't want to start an argument.

Really enjoyed re-reading this...it's just as good second time around

Thanks for this article on AGS!

When I first got into F1 in 1987, they were that mysterious team in the back of the grid, but there was never much published about them as the years went on. With the exception of their occasional results, they were a true footnote in F1 history, not enough to be remembered by many, yet never ignominious to be recalled.

Nice to see it all put together, and seeing how they still run a racing school with their cars is a unique end compared to most teams in the annals of Formula One.

Thread necromancy alert! For a good reason, though.

Every now and then, I check back on the AGS website to see how they're doing, and apparently, they're looking at a return to racing - not in F1, obviously, but in smaller regional series. I'll have to see how that turns out.

Something that might be worth adding to the profile as a nearly-five-years-later edit is a video posted today by "driving 4 answers", a YouTube channel with over a million subscribers, which explains the rotary valves that Guy Nègre wanted to fit to his infamous W12 engine. It's far from just being him who had the idea - looking through the comments, there were plenty of others who tried to make the idea work, but never could on a scale that would be reliable enough for road cars, let alone top-level motorsport. D4A cites all the advantages that Nègre saw in the rotary valves, as well as the main disadvantage, i.e. how difficult it is to seal the combustion chamber.

I had trouble trying to explain what a rotary valve was in as few words as possible, but this makes it all clear. And only now, in the 2020s and the eventual death throes of the internal combustion engine in favour of electric motors (spurred on, no doubt, by the Green / Thunbergist lobby), is it looking like rotary valve technology can be developed enough to work reliably on small machinery - chainsaws, small generators and the like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZU8tsNNxGA

dinizintheoven wrote: ↑24 Mar 2024, 19:56 Thread necromancy alert! For a good reason, though.

Every now and then, I check back on the AGS website to see how they're doing, and apparently, they're looking at a return to racing - not in F1, obviously, but in smaller regional series. I'll have to see how that turns out.

Something that might be worth adding to the profile as a nearly-five-years-later edit is a video posted today by "driving 4 answers", a YouTube channel with over a million subscribers, which explains the rotary valves that Guy Nègre wanted to fit to his infamous W12 engine. It's far from just being him who had the idea - looking through the comments, there were plenty of others who tried to make the idea work, but never could on a scale that would be reliable enough for road cars, let alone top-level motorsport. D4A cites all the advantages that Nègre saw in the rotary valves, as well as the main disadvantage, i.e. how difficult it is to seal the combustion chamber.

I had trouble trying to explain what a rotary valve was in as few words as possible, but this makes it all clear. And only now, in the 2020s and the eventual death throes of the internal combustion engine in favour of electric motors (spurred on, no doubt, by the Green / Thunbergist lobby), is it looking like rotary valve technology can be developed enough to work reliably on small machinery - chainsaws, small generators and the like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZU8tsNNxGA

Any updates would be welcome.