F1 To Be Split Between BBC 1 and Sky Sports from 2012

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 29 Jul 2011, 10:31

DonTirri wrote:That's actually another thing I am extremely glad about, the Finnish commentary is top-notch. Even after Matti Kyllönen, our Murray Walker (Hell, he even Out-murrayed Murray himself at times) retired, the commentary has been absolutely top notch, the current lineup being Oskari Saari (He is a wonderful mix of knowledge and commentating ability), Mika Salo (a recent addition, to replace JJ Lehto who has been absent for about a year due to personal reasons*), Erkki Mustakari (Best known as a sidekick of Kyllönen, he is THE F1 expert in Finland) and the pit reporter Timo Pulkkinen.

They're entertaining, informative and the fact that Salo sounds like he is CONSTANTLY being sarcastic is downright Funny.

I have seen some MTV3 videos on YT without knowing Finnish, but I gotta admit: Kyllönen seems to be really good at his job.

DanielPT wrote:Welcome to my world my UK friends. Since F1 went Pay TV in Portugal that I see all the races via streaming in the Internet.

For this I gotta say something.
DIGI, a cabletv/internet provider (who has a Hungarian owner named Zoltán Tasnádi IIRC, but the company itself is Romanian) has been launching several sports channels named Digisport 1 and 2. In Turkey and Romania, F1 are already being aired on those channels. Now, Hungary has only 2 DS channels so far, Romania has 3.
I have a feeling that F1 will be moved onto Digisport maybe next year, and we might also end up having F1 ONLY on pay-TV.
Formula-1 has always been on FTA channels in Hungary up to now. Even back in the eighties' socialist years when we had only two channels, it was on!

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 29 Jul 2011, 10:34

A heavily sponsorship dependant sport moves half its live coverage to pay TV only in one of its biggest markets?

Clever.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 29 Jul 2011, 10:35

We must not forget that Bernie is to blame for this. If he didn't charge such insane prices for TV rights the BBC could have held on to the full season. But no, he sold his soul to Rupert Murdoch :evil:

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 29 Jul 2011, 10:37

kostas22 wrote:We must not forget that Bernie is to blame for this. If he didn't charge such insane prices for TV rights the BBC could have held on to the full season. But no, he sold his soul to Rupert Murdoch

Murdoch must've hacked his phone and got some dirt on him.

Or maybe Bernie's money-filled swimming pool was running a bit dry.

The Passenger · Post by **The Passenger** » 29 Jul 2011, 10:38

DonTirri wrote:For once I'm happy that I live in Finland. MTV3 shows ALL practices, ALL qualifyings and ALL races (this includes GP2 and GP3, even Porsche Supercup!) Live, uninterrupted AND with recaps of every broadcast a few hours afterwards at best. Granted, it is on MTV3 MAX, their paychannel, but since all digital providers carry said channel and it is included in a 10-channels for 15€ a month for antenna and 10-free to choose channels for 15€ a month for cable by several different providers... that's a moot point really.

They also have a fairly good online streaming service that charges €40 for the entire F1 season. The picture quality isn't HD, but it's very much watchable (especially since they improved the bitrate for this year and the feed no longer crashes every ten minutes) and you get all the F1/GP2/GP3 coverage you need. I had the PlusTV package for a while but got rid of it because I didn't really need the extra channels or even most of the crap they show on MTV3 MAX.

Also, Erkki Mustakari needs to retire or at least stop doing commentary as soon as possible. He might be the #1 F1 expert in Finland, but recently he's just been making up statistics left and right (apparently, Kimi Räikkönen won the 2003 European Grand Prix at the Nürburgring) and generally not having a clue what the hell is going on. I like Oskari Saari's commentary quite a lot, but he really needs someone like Mika Salo or Keke Rosberg to complement him in the booth - Mustakari just makes him seem less competent than he actually is.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 29 Jul 2011, 10:40

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/07/29/s ... erts-2012/

Stop whinging. Australia has always had Formula 1 with ads. We get delayed telecasts, and no coverage of practice or qualifying. England is going to pay-per-view, but you're still getting better coverage than the rest of us.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 29 Jul 2011, 10:46

DanielPT wrote:Welcome to my world my UK friends. Since F1 went Pay TV in Portugal that I see all the races via streaming in the Internet.

Would you mind telling me how much it takes to stream a qualifying session and a race? I'm on a 15GB download limit here, and I tend to use most of it already. Because, seriously, bathplug Sky.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 29 Jul 2011, 10:47

The Passenger wrote:Also, Erkki Mustakari needs to retire or at least stop doing commentary as soon as possible. He might be the #1 F1 expert in Finland, but recently he's just been making up statistics left and right (apparently, Kimi Räikkönen won the 2003 European Grand Prix at the Nürburgring) and generally not having a clue what the hell is going on. I like Oskari Saari's commentary quite a lot, but he really needs someone like Mika Salo or Keke Rosberg to complement him in the booth - Mustakari just makes him seem less competent than he actually is.

To be fair, Mustakari WAS out of the booth for a good while when JJ was still around, my guess is that he was the only one avaible when JJ became unavaible. But now they have Salo there, and I'm loving every moment of it. Maybe I'm just looking Mustakari's performance through rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia though, the Kyllönen - Mustakari pairing was just downright awesome. Mainly due to Mustakari's deadpan corrections of Kyllönen

(Rosberg had him beat on that front though...)

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 29 Jul 2011, 10:47

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Would you mind telling me how much it takes to stream a qualifying session and a race? I'm on a 15GB download limit here, and I tend to use most of it already. Because, seriously, bathplug Sky.

Download limit O_O where do you live, in the middle of the darkest Africa?

The Mountain Man · Post by **The Mountain Man** » 29 Jul 2011, 11:01

...and for once, only once, the whole of Internet agreed on something.

I personally find it unbelievable they announced this broadcast agreement in the middle of such a huge scandal involving the Murdoch media conglomerate. It means they are pretty sure the average schmuck will just pay up front and shut up.

runningboots · Post by **runningboots** » 29 Jul 2011, 11:15

This is terrible news. The quote from the Sky Sports boss on the BBC site says, "...this is great news for F1 fans...."

Errr....how ?

Thin end of the wedge too. I bet they will force the BBC to share their technology and all those great short films they put together.

Terrible...

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 29 Jul 2011, 11:19

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
DanielPT wrote:Welcome to my world my UK friends. Since F1 went Pay TV in Portugal that I see all the races via streaming in the Internet.

Would you mind telling me how much it takes to stream a qualifying session and a race? I'm on a 15GB download limit here, and I tend to use most of it already. Because, seriously, bathplug Sky.

Usually it is low to medium quality and it depends on bit-rate. AT&T say that at standard quality which I suppose Netflix is, and that averages about 550Kbps, 2GB is about 200 minutes. So for you 1500 minutes or 25 hours. That should be quite enough...

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 29 Jul 2011, 11:39

Captain Hammer wrote:http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/07/29/sky-show-f1-races-adverts-2012/

Stop whinging. Australia has always had Formula 1 with ads. We get delayed telecasts, and no coverage of practice or qualifying. England is going to pay-per-view, but you're still getting better coverage than the rest of us.

I don't want to start a flame war, but we have been getting something for nothing for at least 20 years, i.e. full live race coverage on non-subscription TV (though technically speaking we are forced to pay
for the BBC with the monthly license fee (approx. £12 a month) which is compulsory, and now, to get the SKY package with Sky Sports, and preferably in HD, costs, what, £50 a month, plus an initial
installation fee. Two months ago I bought a Freesat HD PVR (basically a non-subscription SKY+HD box) which cost £250 on which I have been enjoying F1 on the BBC (as our analogue signal is in the
process of being switched off across the country). If I get a SKY+HD box then that purchase (of which I am very happy) is pretty much worthless, as I only have 1 HDTV.

Add in the fact that SKY released profit figures of £1bn today and is mostly owned by peoples favourite Rupert Murdoch who is in charge of journalists that hack into the mobile phones of abduction and
murder victims (as well as celebrities but I don't really care about that), and you can see why the public aren't too keen on this. I for one will not pay, what £600 a year to them. I have two children and
don't get to watch much TV anyway.

TomPryce · Post by **TomPryce** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:02

Hah, what a major scoop.

In response to Captain Hammer, the coverage on Sky Sports, for ANY sport, is atrocious, and as others have pointed out there is an undercurrent of sexism and god complexes in Sky Sports. They may have a monopoly on the sporting coverage of this country, but they have such a lack of talented journos that that really doesn't matter.

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:08

TomPryce wrote:Hah, what a major scoop.

In response to Captain Hammer, the coverage on Sky Sports, for ANY sport, is atrocious, and as others have pointed out there is an undercurrent of sexism and god complexes in Sky Sports. They may have a monopoly on the sporting coverage of this country, but they have such a lack of talented journos that that really doesn't matter.

But it's almost certainly still better than the crap that One HD comes up with.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:08

Captain Hammer wrote:Stop whinging. Australia has always had Formula 1 with ads. We get delayed telecasts, and no coverage of practice or qualifying. England is going to pay-per-view, but you're still getting better coverage than the rest of us.

Pretty much this. Even in Germany we don't get all sessions unless we pay for it, and currently we are a bigger market than the UK is - so, why should you Brits have all the good stuff?

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:14

Let's not forget who is actually to blame for this. It's not Sky, it's the BBC. If the BBC had made the required cuts to BBC4 (even though I watch and enjoy a lot of the programs) and Radio 7, which have terrible ratings, there would have been enough money to pay for the Formula 1 rights.
I have a Sky+ HD box and I am quite happy to pay for the Sky package that I have, but I do not intend to pay an extra £20 a month (£30 in HD) to watch Formula 1.
Looks like I'll just hook up the laptop to my TV and watch the other races on the BBC website.

DanielPT wrote:Welcome to my world my UK friends. Since F1 went Pay TV in Portugal that I see all the races via streaming in the Internet.

I've watched a couple of races on Sport TV in Portugal. Awful. I watched the Malaysian Grand Prix this year and the commentators were idiots, especially that arsehole César Campaniço.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:15

And just last month we ended our subscription to Sky Sports from UPC.

5Live, live timing and highlights it is then.

Post by **Londoner** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:18

BATHPLUG BATHPLUG BATHPLUG! What an absolute bloody turncoat Bernie is! And this announcement came weeks after he said that F1 would never leave freeview channels. Time he buggers off as far as I'm concerned. :evil:

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:21

Faustus wrote:Let's not forget who is actually to blame for this. It's not Sky, it's the BBC. If the BBC had make the required cuts to BBC4 (which I actually enjoy) and Radio 7, which have terrible viewing and listening ratings, there would have been enough money to pay for the Formula 1 rights.
I have a Sky+ HD box and I am quite happy to pay for the Sky package that I have, but I do not intend to pay an extra £20 a month (£30 in HD) to watch Formula 1.
Looks like I'll just hook up my laptop to my TV and watch the other races on the BBC website.

DanielPT wrote:Welcome to my world my UK friends. Since F1 went Pay TV in Portugal that I see all the races via streaming in the Internet.

I've watched a couple of races on Sport TV in Portugal. Awful. I watched the Malaysian Grand Prix. The commentators were idiots, especially that arsehole César Campaniço.

Hang on, the BBC F1 site says this :

Races screened by the BBC will be live on the BBC Sport website for UK users.

The BBC will have highlights on TV, online and mobile for any race it is not showing live, and all races will be broadcast on BBC Radio 5 live.

Doesn't that mean it WON'T BE LIVE on the BBC website or anywhere except on the radio when it's Sky's turn? Maybe things are worse than you thought, Faustus ...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:22

DonTirri wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Would you mind telling me how much it takes to stream a qualifying session and a race? I'm on a 15GB download limit here, and I tend to use most of it already. Because, seriously, bathplug Sky.

Download limit O_O where do you live, in the middle of the darkest Africa?

I'm using a wireless dongle USB modem thingy. I have no intention of getting a landline set up because I'm a student and would rather not have to pay the installation costs and the line rental because I'd be the only one using it.

DanielPT wrote:Usually it is low to medium quality and it depends on bit-rate. AT&T say that at standard quality which I suppose Netflix is, and that averages about 550Kbps, 2GB is about 200 minutes. So for you 1500 minutes or 25 hours. That should be quite enough...

Thanks, I think 15GB should be plenty for what, at most 3 races a month.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:23

madmark1974 wrote:Hang on, the BBC F1 site says this :

Races screened by the BBC will be live on the BBC Sport website for UK users.

The BBC will have highlights on TV, online and mobile for any race it is not showing live, and all races will be broadcast on BBC Radio 5 live.

Doesn't that mean it WON'T BE LIVE on the BBC website or anywhere except on the radio when it's Sky's turn? Maybe things are worse than you thought, Faustus ...

shite, you're right madmark1974, I misunderstood the press release. Radio 5 it is then.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:29

Captain Hammer wrote:http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/07/29/sky-show-f1-races-adverts-2012/

Stop whinging. Australia has always had Formula 1 with ads. We get delayed telecasts, and no coverage of practice or qualifying. England is going to pay-per-view, but you're still getting better coverage than the rest of us.

And this sort of attitude is how BSkyB will get away with it. People eventually cave and buy the product of a corrupt, irresponsibe, unethical and power-hungry company, thus strengthening their campaign for worldwide domination through use of the media.

I will not give a single penny of my money to BSkyB or any other business owned by or affiliated to News Corporation. They are the pond scum of the earth. I'd actually have been far less angry if the Pay TV races had gone to ESPN, at least they'd give motorsport fans a good reason to join - it's avaliable on Freeview (as long as your TV has a card slot, which is very common on new TVs), costs a third as much, and has WRC, DTM , F3 Euroseries and World Series by Renault - so motorsport fans can actually get their money's worth. But this has to have been the stupidest resolution to the BBC budget crisis.

And, to correct you, we are not going PPV. It's subscription only.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:31

kostas22 wrote:And, to correct you, we are not going PPV. It's subscription only.

I almost wish it was PPV, at least it wouldn't be more than £5 for a race.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:31

kostas22 wrote:And this sort of attitude is how BSkyB will get away with it. People eventually cave and buy the product of a corrupt, irresponsibe, unethical and power-hungry company, thus strengthening their campaign for worldwide domination through use of the media.

Heil Murdoch! :roll:

You know you can overdo it, alright?

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:34

James Allen has an interesting piece on the subject :

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/07/ecclestone-to-meet-teams-this-afternoon-over-sky-f1-deal/

beetleman64 · Post by **beetleman64** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:34

I can't believe this hasn't come up, so:

http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

Anyway, I suppose it could be worse. It's not like Sky has got exclusive rights to ALL races, and at least the BBC will have highlights for every race. What I'm scared of is the precedent this sets, as it is now far easier for Sky to get exclusive rights to all races with very little left for the BBC, like what has happened with football.

Am I right in saying that Eurosport broadcast F1 alongside the BBC and other Euro broadcaster until around '95? If so, why can't we have a similar set-up, with the BBC showing quali and the race, and Sky showing it all?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:35

But apparently, there will not be any adverts during the race itself while the race is on Sky Sports. So during those races, everybody will watch the BBC anyway. This does not change anything as far as I am concerned.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:36

beetleman64 wrote:I can't believe this hasn't come up, so:

http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

Anyway, I suppose it could be worse. It's not like Sky has got exclusive rights to ALL races, and at least the BBC will have highlights for every race. What I'm scared of is the precedent this sets, as it is now far easier for Sky to get exclusive rights to all races with very little left for the BBC, like what has happened with football.

Am I right in saying that Eurosport broadcast F1 alongside the BBC and other Euro broadcaster until around '95? If so, why can't we have a similar set-up, with the BBC showing quali and the race, and Sky showing it all?

Eurosport broadcast Formula 1 until the end of the 1996 season. They also used to show both qualifying sessions and the warm-up (when such things existed) and sometimes the free practice sessions. John Watson and Ben Edwards made a commentating team and they always guest commentators.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:36

In all honesty I've been umming and erring about getting Sky for a couple of years, one of my friends recently got it for golf coverage and he wonders how he ever did without it.

In all truth, I've just read on the Autosport website that Sky's races will NOT be interrupted by adverts which is a big plus, and so for this and other sports stuff as well (as I'm a big golf and cricket fan too) I think I'm reluctantly going to be paying up. Highlights just aren't the same.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:39

madmark1974 wrote:James Allen has an interesting piece on the subject :

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/07/ecclestone-to-meet-teams-this-afternoon-over-sky-f1-deal/

Especially this bit:

'My understanding of the crucial clause in the Concorde Agreement is that it says that the Commercial Rights Holder must “avoid” a situation where F1 coverage is “only available on pay TV” in key markets, such as the UK.
Ecclestone may argue that this clause has been respected because all the races will be shown on the BBC, it’s just that half of them will not be live but will be highlights. Either way he is likely to have found a wording which allows this to happen.'

All that FOM has to prove to the teams is that the BBC did not intend to renew the contract and that none of the other terrestrial channels showed a firm commitment to purchase the rights.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:39

Klon wrote:
kostas22 wrote:And this sort of attitude is how BSkyB will get away with it. People eventually cave and buy the product of a corrupt, irresponsibe, unethical and power-hungry company, thus strengthening their campaign for worldwide domination through use of the media.

Heil Murdoch!

You know you can overdo it, alright?

He barely is. The only reason for having such a monopoly on international media that I can see is to control various important parts of society - sport and politics most prominently in the case of News International. Sure top-flight English football is pretty much 100% reliant on the money pumped in by Sky; that kind of influence from a third-party plainly shouldn't exist.

That's why I pretty much agree with kostas, and why this move, and the inevitable complete departure from BBC, doesn't just disappoint me, it upsets and angers me, that the broadcasting rights of my favourite sport can be put into such blatantly wrong hands.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:40

Klon wrote:
kostas22 wrote:And this sort of attitude is how BSkyB will get away with it. People eventually cave and buy the product of a corrupt, irresponsibe, unethical and power-hungry company, thus strengthening their campaign for worldwide domination through use of the media.

Heil Murdoch!

You know you can overdo it, alright?

On this subject, not a chance. This has really made my blood boil. I don't remember being this livid about anything for a long, long time. I was so mad I smashed my computer with a sledgehammer (SERIOUSLY*).

*Thankfully however it had just recenetly broken due to a faulty motherboard...so no big deal I guess.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:44

James1978 wrote:In all honesty I've been umming and erring about getting Sky for a couple of years, one of my friends recently got it for golf coverage and he wonders how he ever did without it.

In all truth, I've just read on the Autosport website that Sky's races will NOT be interrupted by adverts which is a big plus, and so for this and other sports stuff as well (as I'm a big golf and cricket fan too) I think I'm reluctantly going to be paying up. Highlights just aren't the same.

If you intend to watch some or all of the other sports coverage, then it probably makes sense, but I would only watch F1 and any other motorsport. That is not enough to justify £20 a month, especially considering that during August there won't be any races but I'll be tied in to a contract and will have to pay anyway.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:47

kostas22 wrote:On this subject, not a chance. This has really made my blood boil. I don't remember being this livid about anything for a long, long time. I was so mad I smashed my computer with a sledgehammer (SERIOUSLY*).

*Thankfully however it had just recenetly broken due to a faulty motherboard...so no big deal I guess.

Why not paint your face and lead a Braveheart-style rebellion against Sky headquarters?

"They may take our lives, but they'll never take our Free Practice 2!" :mrgreen:

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 29 Jul 2011, 12:48

Klon wrote:
kostas22 wrote:On this subject, not a chance. This has really made my blood boil. I don't remember being this livid about anything for a long, long time. I was so mad I smashed my computer with a sledgehammer (SERIOUSLY*).

*Thankfully however it had just recenetly broken due to a faulty motherboard...so no big deal I guess.

Why not paint your face and lead a Braveheart-style rebellion against Sky headquarters?

"They may take our lives, but they'll never take our Free Practice 2!"

Googling the address of their Glasgow offices as we speak...

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 29 Jul 2011, 13:27

kostas22 wrote:
Klon wrote:
kostas22 wrote:On this subject, not a chance. This has really made my blood boil. I don't remember being this livid about anything for a long, long time. I was so mad I smashed my computer with a sledgehammer (SERIOUSLY*).

*Thankfully however it had just recenetly broken due to a faulty motherboard...so no big deal I guess.

Why not paint your face and lead a Braveheart-style rebellion against Sky headquarters?

"They may take our lives, but they'll never take our Free Practice 2!"

Googling the address of their Glasgow offices as we speak...

Pictures or it Didnt happen! xD

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 29 Jul 2011, 13:28

Klon wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:Stop whinging. Australia has always had Formula 1 with ads. We get delayed telecasts, and no coverage of practice or qualifying. England is going to pay-per-view, but you're still getting better coverage than the rest of us.

Pretty much this. Even in Germany we don't get all sessions unless we pay for it, and currently we are a bigger market than the UK is - so, why should you Brits have all the good stuff?

You do have a point, in that UK viewers have been spoilt in having comprehensive, good quality access to Formula 1, for free. Paying for content was bound to happen sooner or later, but it is still surprising when it happened because of all the recent encouraging comments from the BBC and FOM.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 29 Jul 2011, 13:39

There's now an article on the premium section of Autosport about this and I shall just quote their conclusion here:

The bottom line is that rather than this knee-jerk reaction, everyone needs to take a breath and actually listen to what Sky is proposing. After all, the BBC clearly had to reduce its financial commitment to F1, and it's a mistake to assume that if Sky wasn't showing it, Channels 4 or 5 would have done so.

Casting Sky as a malignant, predatory force that has snatched F1 away from British fans is a crude oversimplification of a vastly more complex issue.

While this halfway-house coverage share is unsatisfying (although not unknown, with the likes of Germany already doing so), it's clear that if you want a broadcaster with the freedom, the money and the vision to commit to F1, it's going to be Sky. Like it or not, the BBC is being watched too closely to do so and ITV forsook F1 several years ago.

We'd all like free-to-air coverage of the races, uninterrupted by adverts with hours of build-up and post-race analysis. But somebody, somewhere has to pay for it or else no one sees it. That's the way of the world.

(Moderators - please delete this if you believe it to be unfair to be quoting from a suscription-only article...)

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 29 Jul 2011, 13:47

dr-baker wrote:There's now an article on the premium section of Autosport about this and I shall just quote their conclusion here:

Casting Sky as a malignant, predatory force that has snatched F1 away from British fans is a crude oversimplification of a vastly more complex issue.

What? Rational thinking? What is this ungodly wizardy of yours, heretic? :mrgreen: