What If?

stupot94 · Post by **stupot94** » 01 Aug 2011, 19:18

What if Martin Donnelly made that corner?

What if Derek Warwick did partner Ayrton?

Post by **mario** » 01 Aug 2011, 20:05

stupot94 wrote:What if Derek Warwick did partner Ayrton?

I imagine that relations between the two drivers, and between Ayrton and the team, would have been tenser and possibly slightly acrimonious, given that Senna was quite firmly against the deal at the time. At the very least, it might have made it harder for Senna to set himself up as the unquestioned No. 1 driver within the team.

stupot94 wrote:What if Avon became the main tyre supplier for F1? (longshot I know but just wondering what people may think will happen)

To be honest, Avon probably would have bitten off more than they could chew in that instance - the company has less than half the resources of Pirelli, and Pirelli had space capacity after cutting back on some of their racing activities (like WRC). Possibly, Avon would have given the teams something similar to their A1GP specification tyres, but I can't see them having offered anything significantly better than what we're getting with Pirelli.
On top of that, I'd expect that there would have been some negative headlines about the deal, as Bernie Ecclestone has a holding in Avon (via their parent company, Cooper Tyres), and some would undoubtedly question whether there was a conflict of interest there.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 01 Aug 2011, 22:03

stupot94 wrote:What if Martin Donnelly made that corner?

He would have carried on for 1991, he apparently was already signed on as their number 1. I'm assuming alongside Mika Hakkinen, although if alongside Julian Bailey, then it could have made a big difference.

Shame really about Donnelly, because he was promising and constantly matching Warwick.

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 02 Aug 2011, 09:00

Not sure if this one has been asked before (please ignore this if it has), but :

What if there was no minimum weight limit in F1?

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 02 Aug 2011, 11:16

madmark1974 wrote:Not sure if this one has been asked before (please ignore this if it has), but :

What if there was no minimum weight limit in F1?

Everybody could set their own weight when building the car. But it will make the car fragile anyways.

stupot94 · Post by **stupot94** » 02 Aug 2011, 19:25

madmark1974 wrote:Not sure if this one has been asked before (please ignore this if it has), but :

What if there was no minimum weight limit in F1?

They wouldnt have to get pickup at the end of the race

stupot94 · Post by **stupot94** » 02 Aug 2011, 19:31

What if Bernd Maylander crashes his Safety Car

What if Kubica didnt have his accident

What if Simtek managed to score a few points

What if Johnny Herbert wasnt hit on the first start at the first corner Monza 94?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 02 Aug 2011, 22:58

stupot94 wrote:What if Bernd Maylander crashes his Safety Car

A sure RoTR award and a possible RoTY nomination...

stupot94 wrote:What if Kubica didnt have his accident

He would probably be the best of the rest by now (behind Ferraris, Red Bulls and McLarens). Perhaps even shadowing Massa. Oh and Nick Heidfeld career would be spoken of in the past tense...

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 03 Aug 2011, 08:56

madmark1974 wrote:Not sure if this one has been asked before (please ignore this if it has), but :

What if there was no minimum weight limit in F1?

Probably a bit of a no-no, but I'm going to answer my own question here.

I think you'd find the designers taking things to extremes to save weight, and drivers would also be under pressure to lose weight. For example, look at MotoGP, Dani Pedrosa is so much lighter than
the rest of the riders that he pretty much always get to the 1st corner in the lead as long as he is on the 1st two rows of the grid (I believe in MotoGP the weight limit only includes the bike).

A minimum weight limit would then be introduced after a car had a Mercedes Le Mans style flip and aerial pirouette as air got underneath it going over the crest in the straight at Turkey.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 03 Aug 2011, 12:04

madmark1974 wrote:
madmark1974 wrote:Not sure if this one has been asked before (please ignore this if it has), but :

What if there was no minimum weight limit in F1?

Probably a bit of a no-no, but I'm going to answer my own question here.

I think you'd find the designers taking things to extremes to save weight, and drivers would also be under pressure to lose weight. For example, look at MotoGP, Dani Pedrosa is so much lighter than
the rest of the riders that he pretty much always get to the 1st corner in the lead as long as he is on the 1st two rows of the grid (I believe in MotoGP the weight limit only includes the bike).

A minimum weight limit would then be introduced after a car had a Mercedes Le Mans style flip and aerial pirouette as air got underneath it going over the crest in the straight at Turkey.

How would this affect the teams' use of ballast in the cars?

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 03 Aug 2011, 13:57

stupot94 wrote:What if Johnny Herbert wasnt hit on the first start at the first corner Monza 94?

Considering he actually overtook Hill at the start before the hit, I assume he would have stayed in 3rd for some time. Being there he allowed Ferraris to escape. Hill manages to get past him, Coulthard passes him in the pit stops. Towards the end of the race he suffers some problems and Häkkinen goes past as well. Herbert's interference helps Ferrari enough so Berger wins the race, Hill finishes 2nd, Häkkinen 3rd and Herbert 4th. It helps Lotus financially just enough so they can keep Herbert until the end of the season, however, not for longer.

1993DonningtonNo1 · Post by **1993DonningtonNo1** » 04 Aug 2011, 13:47

How's this for a What if? What if Ferrari had put Luca Badoer in the car in 1999 when Schumey had his accident (forgive me Mika Salo, I mean no disrespect)? For all we know, that could have re-opened the door for Stephane Sarrazin at Minardi!

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 04 Aug 2011, 16:55

1993DonningtonNo1 wrote:How's this for a What if? What if Ferrari had put Luca Badoer in the car in 1999 when Schumey had his accident (forgive me Mika Salo, I mean no disrespect)? For all we know, that could have re-opened the door for Stephane Sarrazin at Minardi!

He probably would have been slow as he was in 2009. Ferrari would have lost the constructors championship, Mika Salo wouldn't have a podium to his name, and Eddie Irvine still would have ended up the same way as he did in the drivers championship.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 04 Aug 2011, 18:30

1993DonningtonNo1 wrote:How's this for a What if? What if Ferrari had put Luca Badoer in the car in 1999 when Schumey had his accident (forgive me Mika Salo, I mean no disrespect)? For all we know, that could have re-opened the door for Stephane Sarrazin at Minardi!

If Jeroen is allowed to make stories, I may too:

Badoer is confirmed for the 1999 Austrian Grand Prix. Even more so than Mika Salo, he, quite frankly, is absolutely horrible in that race, starting 16th, barely beating the two Saubers. He retires on lap 22 with a gearbox failure, having been in 14th position at that time - the race otherwise doesn't unfold too differently from real life. Minardi announces, in a surprisingly shocking developement, announce Nick Heidfeld, who was leading the F3000 championship at that time as new driver. Heidfeld goes surprisingly well on his debut, qualifying exactly 40 thousands of a second behind Gené and finishing three seconds in front of him.

Standings: Mika Häkkinen - 44 / Eddie Irvine - 42 / Heinz-Harald Frentzen - 29

The German Grand Prix goes only slightly better with Badoer starting in 11th and finishing sixth, pushing Alexander Wurz to the finishing line. Irvine becomes too confident at the front and loses the win in the second-to-last lap to Heinz-Harald Frentzen. Heidfeld has a horrible race in his home country and retires after spinning on the first corner of the third lap.

Standings: Eddie Irvine - 48 / Mika Häkkinen - 44 / Heinz-Harald Frentzen - 39

Badoer's apparent improvement stops and he only starts in 12th position. After his race ended in a start crash with Barrichello, the Italian media asks for his head but Todt stays confident in his driver. McLaren's drivers go unchallenged at the top with Irvine only third. Heidfeld more than makes up for his catastophe at the Hockenheimring by making up 11 places during the race, finishing tenth, beating Olivier Panis in the Prost and Johnny Herbert amongs others. Impressed by this performance, Alain Prost announces his intention to sign young Nick.

Standings: Mika Häkkinen - 54 / Eddie Irvine - 52 / Heinz-Harald Frentzen - 42

Luca shows his gratefulness for the supportive Todt by starting an impressive fourth. Interestingly, this alternative dimensions have Hill and Frentzen switched up on the grid, so Hill starts in front of Badoer and Frentzen. Badoer is also source of the biggest twist of this Belgian Grand Prix: after Coulthard's first pit stop he comes out behind Badoer and has to pass him quickly. Unfortunately, he overdoes it and crashes into Badoer. While Luca and his Ferrari escape unharmed, Coulthard's suspension breaks, putting him out of the race. Häkkinen takes a win in front of HHF. Team spirit forces Badoer to give up on his first podium in order to help Irvine's title campaign. F1 is rather bored by Heidfeld who, for the entire weekend, putting equal times as Gené on the table.

Standings: Mika Häkkinen - 64 / Eddie Irvine - 56 / Heinz-Harald Frentzen - 48

While he managed to rescue his job in Belgium, nobody in Italy really likes poor Badoer as replacement for Schumi. Irony, however, has a twisted sense of humour. An impressive performance, which allows Badoer to outqualify Irvine for the second time and start fourth, becomes undone at the first corner after a crash. Once Badoer has left his car, however, the masses were screaming at him in joy. The reason? He took out pole-setter Häkkinen as well. Inspired by Mika's early retirement, Irvine challenges and beats Coulthard for fourth. This battle, however, allows Barrichello to escape and secure third place behind Frentzen, who loses the win by the means of a messed up pitstop to Ralf Schumacher. Heidfeld is announced as a Prost driver for 2000 and qualifies in a brilliant 12th place, only to be involved in a DIniz-Wurz-collision.

Standings: Mika Häkkinen - 64 / Eddie Irvine - 59 / Heinz-Harald Frentzen - 54

Are you surprised that the European Grand Prix turns out way less chaotic than it did? Well, don't be. Badoer outqualifies Irvine for the third time in a row, with him in fifth place and Eddie down in seventh. Both Ferrari squeeze a very weak David Coulthard. A brilliant start by both Ferraris and Frentzen leave McLaren in the dust. The British team has a catastrophical race with Häkkinen retiring due to a hydraulic leak and Coulthard having four (!) seperate punctures during the race, finishing 16th and second-to-last after at least taking Toranosuke Takagi in the overtaking maneuvre of the year in the Bit-Kurve. McLaren can be at least somewhat lucky, Mika still leads the championship, because Badoer takes the lead on lap 9 after a Safety Car phase and keeps it for a long time. Ferrari have obvious intentions, but with Frentzen in second, they have no chance in hell of switching unless they want to risk Heinz-Harald winning the whole thing. So the race finishes with Irvine in third, Frentzen in second and ... Badoer in first! Luca is tearing up on the podium, overwhelmed with pure joy. Heidfeld has another awful race in Germany, because while he started in 17th ahead of Zanardi, it all comes undone by a spin on the first lap, followed by an messy engine failure on the finish straight after 6 laps, bringing out said Safety Car. On a different rejectful note, Jacques' BAR keeps together for once and he finishes in an absolutely awesome fifth position, masterfully defending against a much stronger Giancarlo Fisichella.

Standings: Mika Häkkinen - 64 / Eddie Irvine - 63 / Heinz-Harald Frentzen - 60

Michael Schumacher announces his heroic return to F1 at the last race of the season, giving Badoer a last race in the Ferrari in Malaysia. After his first win in F1, he scores his first pole in Formula 1. Sadly for Badoer, any chance of a successful race is ruined by Mika Häkkinen, who goes up the back of his Ferrari. Irvine and Coulthard battle all day long, with the Scotsman getting the upper hand. Frentzen has a good race pace, however, after a horrible qualifying, he only barely beats Johnny Herbert to the last podium spot. Heidfeld is good, but not noticeable. starting 17th and finishing 11th ... and last.

Standings: Eddie Irvine - 69 / Mika Häkkinen - 64 / Heinz-Harald Frentzen - 64

If you think the last race of the 1997 season was an outrageous display of a lack of sportsmanship, then you would not want to see this Grand Prix. The first corner involves an Aryton Senna-memorial crash with Michael Schumacher driving straight into Mika Häkkinen. The FIA announce an investigation, but in an interesting twist, the accident actually was just that. A puncture of unknown cause led to the accident. Schumacher even goes as far as to apologize to Mika straight after the accident. Irvine looks set to win the title, but later in the race, Coulthard spins and comes back on the track, just in the way of Irvine. The consequences are rather obvious: crash and both cars are out. Despite this, the odds are on favour for Irvine. Ralf Schumacher looks now like a possible two-time winner in front of an extremely strong Jean Alesi. Unfortunately for him, his Supertec engine fails four laps before the checked flag. Jean Alesi therefore takes the first win for Sauber-Petronas, but unfortunately this historic event does not help their engine supplier since Frentzen was third before his retirement and Farina's Law strikes hard, making Frentzen the undisputed World Champion. Rubens Barrichello, who has been confirmed as second driver for Ferrari from 2000 onwards, gives his team a last present and gives up his third place to Johnny Herbert. Heidfeld has an anonymous last race for Minardi and is the only one aside who gets lapped two times.

Standings: Heinz-Harald Frentzen - 70 / Eddie Irvine - 69 / Mika Häkkinen - 64

midgrid · Post by **midgrid** » 04 Aug 2011, 18:47

Well, after that interesting read, I'm going to be boring and say that since Badoer had prior experience of the F399 and Salo didn't, he would have been more consistent but lacked the Irvine-beating pace that Mika displayed on a couple of occasions. He would have scored about the same number of points as Salo managed, and would then have been given the Sauber seat for 2000 as a result, especially if Irvine won the title. At the end of the season, Peter Sauber is unhappy with his experienced drivers and dumps both Badoer and Diniz in favour of Heidfeld and Raikkonen. Badoer returns to Ferrari as the test driver, and does not race again until 2009, when he is called up to replaced the injured Massa. Although his performances are lamentable, the media treat him with more respect given his decent form ten years later, and he sees out the season with Ferrari, scoring a further point after qualifying well in the rain-affected session in Brazil and holding his position in the race.

The spare Minardi seat could have gone to anyone, possibly Sarrazin again or Mazzacane, who was the team's official test driver by this point. Salo remains the test driver for BAR and is promoted to the race team in 2001 following Zonta's failure to get anywhere near Villeneuve. Meanwhile, Panis is tempted away from his McLaren testing role by a big-money offer from Toyota, and returns to racing action in 2002 alongside McNish. Despite a solid first season for the team, both drivers are released at the end of the season, and replaced by Salo, who is squeezed out of BAR by the arrival of Button, and Da Matta. Salo retires at the end of 2004.

midgrid · Post by **midgrid** » 04 Aug 2011, 19:02

- What if Juan Manuel Fangio had been killed, or suffered career-ending injuries, as a result of his crash at Monza in 1952?
- What if David Walker hadn't crashed during the early stages of the 1971 Dutch Grand Prix?
- What if Andrea de Cesaris's engine hadn't failed during the 1991 Belgian Grand Prix, or Michael Schumacher had been easier on his clutch at the start?
- What if Jos Verstappen had stayed on track during the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 04 Aug 2011, 19:44

midgrid wrote:- What if Jos Verstappen had stayed on track during the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix?

He would have won, and became the biggest legend who ever lived, although he is up there as it is.

Pointrox · Post by **Pointrox** » 05 Aug 2011, 15:50

midgrid wrote:- What if Jos Verstappen had stayed on track during the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix?

Oh you! I was about to ask this question!

I think he would have a hard time mantaining his position in front of Fisichella, but even if Giancarlo got in front of him, Jos would have scored a podium.

1993DonningtonNo1 · Post by **1993DonningtonNo1** » 05 Aug 2011, 16:34

Jordan would have begged Verstappen for his signature for 2004 regardless of wether he or Fisichella had won. Certainly would have saved Giorgio Pantano any embarassment and could have saved the last ever International F3K Season from being Tonio Liuzzi's and Christian Horner's equivalent of Ferrari's and Schumey's year.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 05 Aug 2011, 18:56

A few little knows facts about Brazil 2003 and Minardi. Veratappens car was fuelled not to the end of the race, but the team did fill the tank up to the max, as Paul Stoddart believed the race wouldn't reach the full distance. Vertappen was also runnng ahead of Fisichella at the time of his spin, and many believed he wouldve stayed there. Fisichella maeanwhile, has always said he wouldn't have overtaken Verstappen if they were 1st and 2nd, such as his respect for the team who gave him his F1 break. I presonally think he wouldn't have won, something else wouldve got in the way. The race was a complete WTF, so something else was bound to happen.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 06 Aug 2011, 20:59

What if Heikki Kovalainen was at the same level as Lewis Hamilton in 2008 and/or 2009?

RainierSassetti · Post by **RainierSassetti** » 06 Aug 2011, 23:22

JeremyMcClean wrote:What if Heikki Kovalainen was at the same level as Lewis Hamilton in 2008 and/or 2009?

Massa WDC probably, due to intra-team rivalry in the 2 Mclarens, and after 2008 a game of musical chairs between Mclaren, Ferrari and Brawn-MercedesGP. I'd imagine a better seat for Kovalainen.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 08 Aug 2011, 09:55

What if Rubens Barrichello had won the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix?

Post by **Londoner** » 08 Aug 2011, 10:20

Here's another 'What If' idea from the legendary 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix. What if Schumi had not crashed into the turn 3 scrapyard and kept going in the race. Also, what if Webber had crashed there instead of somehow controling his spin at the corner.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 08 Aug 2011, 12:44

What if Alexander Wurz had got the Red Bull drive in 2005 over DC?

stupot94 · Post by **stupot94** » 08 Aug 2011, 14:07

redbulljack14 wrote:What if Alexander Wurz had got the Red Bull drive in 2005 over DC?

Alex Wurz may not be in the Le Mans series at the minute. And DC would have signed for another team. Say Jordan

Wurz may be still in F1 at the moment but not driving for Red Bull

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 08 Aug 2011, 14:39

stupot94 wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:What if Alexander Wurz had got the Red Bull drive in 2005 over DC?

Alex Wurz may not be in the Le Mans series at the minute. And DC would have signed for another team. Say Jordan

Wurz may be still in F1 at the moment but not driving for Red Bull

What happened to Wurz after the second half of 1998, he was so promising, especially fighting back against Schumacher at Monaco.

stupot94 · Post by **stupot94** » 08 Aug 2011, 15:53

redbulljack14 wrote:
stupot94 wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:What if Alexander Wurz had got the Red Bull drive in 2005 over DC?

Alex Wurz may not be in the Le Mans series at the minute. And DC would have signed for another team. Say Jordan

Wurz may be still in F1 at the moment but not driving for Red Bull

What happened to Wurz after the second half of 1998, he was so promising, especially fighting back against Schumacher at Monaco.

The Benetton was actually quite a promising car even giving Fisi a couple of podiums.
I think fisi had Murrays commentary curse because after he crossed the line at the 98 Canadian GP he said "He will be world champion in the future"

Obviously Benetton didnt have Schumacher and Brawn anymore so victories were scarce, but I think if they spent a bit more money Wurz and Fisi would have at least been challenging for victories.

I met Wurz at the Autosport show in 2010 and he is possibly one of the nicest guys you could ever meet

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 08 Aug 2011, 16:16

stupot94 wrote:I met Wurz at the Autosport show in 2010 and he is possibly one of the nicest guys you could ever meet

The one at the NEC in Birmingham? I'm hopefully going to it next year.

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 08 Aug 2011, 17:41

What if Dan Gurney had stuck with Brabham, instead of forming his own team in 1966?

stupot94 · Post by **stupot94** » 08 Aug 2011, 18:30

redbulljack14 wrote:
stupot94 wrote:I met Wurz at the Autosport show in 2010 and he is possibly one of the nicest guys you could ever meet

The one at the NEC in Birmingham? I'm hopefully going to it next year.

I have been to it this year and obviously the last. And you should, it is excellent.

One problem is though many of the big stars are in huge demand, we couldnt even get close to Jenson in 2010. But I did manage to meet Wurz, Montagny, Brundle (Martin and Alex) McNish and Paffett
and this year Priaulx, Craig Dolby, Jason Plato and Tiff Needell

It is mainly trade stalls but it is well balanced out with great motorsport equipment.

I just hope HWNSNBM is there next year. But I think he will be in constant demand

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 08 Aug 2011, 18:48

DOSBoot wrote:What if Dan Gurney had stuck with Brabham, instead of forming his own team in 1966?

Maybe, only maybe, he could have been WC in 1966 and 1967.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 11 Aug 2011, 16:56

What if ALL the 24 drivers quit NOW, who would be the IDEAL replacements...

(I'm expecting the sillyness to start flying)

...and which of the 24 replacements would win the Belgian GP.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 11 Aug 2011, 21:17

ADx_Wales wrote:What if ALL the 24 drivers quit NOW, who would be the IDEAL replacements...

(I'm expecting the sillyness to start flying)

...and which of the 24 replacements would win the Belgian GP.

The ones I know of

Red Bull:
McLaren: De La Rosa and Paffett
Ferrari: Fisichella and Bianchi
Mercedes:
Renault: Senna and Grosjean
Williams: Bird and Bottas
Force India: Hulkenberg
Sauber: Gutierrez
Toro Rosso:
Lotus: Valsecchi and Chandhok
HRT:
Virgin: Yamamoto

I'd bet on Fisi or PDLR to win.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 11 Aug 2011, 21:25

I guess they would be replaced by their team's reserve drivers. That already gives us around 20 drivers, with the likes of Ho-Pin Tung amongst them.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 11 Aug 2011, 23:03

ADx_Wales wrote:What if ALL the 24 drivers quit NOW, who would be the IDEAL replacements...

(I'm expecting the sillyness to start flying)

...and which of the 24 replacements would win the Belgian GP.

HWNSNBM takes over what was Vettel's car and wins the championship. It doesn't matter who replaces the other cars.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 11 Aug 2011, 23:05

JeremyMcClean wrote:
ADx_Wales wrote:What if ALL the 24 drivers quit NOW, who would be the IDEAL replacements...

(I'm expecting the sillyness to start flying)

...and which of the 24 replacements would win the Belgian GP.

HWNSNBM takes over what was Liuzzi's car and wins the championship. It doesn't matter who replaces the other cars.

Fixed.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 12 Aug 2011, 14:11

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:
ADx_Wales wrote:What if ALL the 24 drivers quit NOW, who would be the IDEAL replacements...

(I'm expecting the sillyness to start flying)

...and which of the 24 replacements would win the Belgian GP.

HWNSNBM takes over what was Lopez's 2010 car and wins the championship. It doesn't matter who replaces the other cars.

Fixed.

Fixed again

stupot94 · Post by **stupot94** » 12 Aug 2011, 14:42

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:
ADx_Wales wrote:What if ALL the 24 drivers quit NOW, who would be the IDEAL replacements...

HWNSNBM takes over what was Belmondos 94 car and wins the championship. It doesn't matter who replaces the other cars.

Fixed.

Fixed again

I think it needed more fixing

Vepe · Post by **Vepe** » 12 Aug 2011, 14:57

ADx_Wales wrote:What if ALL the 24 drivers quit NOW, who would be the IDEAL replacements...

HWNSNBM takes over what was Liuzzi´s car and replaces it with his own car made from Legos car and wins the championship. It doesn't matter who replaces the other cars.

Still needs more fixing...