What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 11 Aug 2011, 05:25

Wizzie wrote:What about a safer barrier around the outside of that corner like at most ovals?

There's still the chance that it could be breached. It might be considered safe by the oval circuits, but I doubt Formula 1 will agree.

What they should do is move the pits further down the main straight, then rebuild the Peraltada in front of the baseball stadium instead of behind it. As part of the redesign, the track could dip down on the straight before the banking in such a way that the lip of the banked corner is level with the area surrounding it. Not only would this be safer in the event a car breached the barrier, but it would also add some elevation to the circuit. The existing circuit is 4.4km; shortening it like this would bring it down to 3.8km. Since the average length of a circuit these days is 5.5km, that would give them an extra 1.7km for circuit extensions.

If the Mexicans are deadly serious about this, what they should consider doing is starting a street race in Guadalajara. They should hold it for a year or two while they figure out exactly what to do with Hermanos Rodriguez. That will keep their spot on the calendar and prevent a rush job to upgrade the old circuit. However, there's not really a lot that you can do with Guadalajara. These are my best efforts:

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4709506

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4709509

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4709518

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4709519

The problem is that the city is very spaced out and most of the streets are on a grid pattern. There's a few interesting, curvy roads, but it's impossible to string them together in a way that they come in under the maximum allowable track length. And most of them run through residential areas:

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4709527

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4709533

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 11 Aug 2011, 09:05

Actually, I've found the perfect solution for Hermanos rodriguez:

It's 6.63km long, which means the race would be run over 45 laps. The start line has been relocated to the straight running parallel to the Viaducto Rio Piedad. The circuit is run anti-clockwise, with the Peraltada lowered so that the upper lip is level with the surrounding land. The cars then go under the necessary fly-over (the circuit coming out of the Peraltada is actually low enough that the fly-over does not need to rise up), before entering a tunnel that runs under the paddock. They emerge on the short strati between turns five and six. As for the pit lane, it actually peels off to the left at the penultimate corner and runs between race control (built on the inside of the final corner) and the exit to the tunnel (with appropriate run-off, of course) and is designed - like the new Silverstone lane - to minimise the amount of time spent in the pits.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 11 Aug 2011, 16:47

Captain Hammer wrote:
Wizzie wrote:What about a safer barrier around the outside of that corner like at most ovals?

There's still the chance that it could be breached. It might be considered safe by the oval circuits, but I doubt Formula 1 will agree.

So, barriers made to save IndyCars (what are they called?

) and NASCAR, isn't good enough for F1?

Post by **mario** » 11 Aug 2011, 17:02

Myrvold wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:
Wizzie wrote:What about a safer barrier around the outside of that corner like at most ovals?

There's still the chance that it could be breached. It might be considered safe by the oval circuits, but I doubt Formula 1 will agree.

So, barriers made to save IndyCars (what are they called? ) and NASCAR, isn't good enough for F1?

Wikipedia seems to indicate that the SAFER barrier is now being used in Interlagos in the final turn as a consequence of the fatal accidents that have occurred in recent years, and at Indianapolis when the road course was used for the US GP.

That said, there are a few problems with the design as it stands which probably limits its use - the main one that I can think of is that it might take a reasonably long period of time to repair the barrier should there be an especially heavy impact. Also, I believe that the SAFER barrier was in place for the US Grand Prix in 2004, and yet despite that Ralf Schumacher did still suffer from fractured vertebrae after he suffered a rear suspension failure that pitched him into the wall backwards.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 11 Aug 2011, 21:13

In Ralf Schumacher's accident at Indy, his Williams did not hit any SAFER barrier at all, but concrete because the barrier was not on the outside of the final corner (which would be the entrance of the Turn 1 of the oval) but on the exit of Turn 1 (which would be the entrance to the final corner). That was a tough mistake by the IMS circuit.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 11 Aug 2011, 22:17

Just another thing to add - what about allowing DRS at the Peraltada? (Taking Captain Hammer's layout)

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 12 Aug 2011, 00:06

Myrvold wrote:So, barriers made to save IndyCars (what are they called? ) and NASCAR, isn't good enough for F1?

No. None of the ovals used by either series has an FIA Grade-1 licence.

Rocks with Salt · Post by **Rocks with Salt** » 12 Aug 2011, 22:39

Why would FIA even consider Mexico as a candidate country? Isn't their drug war enough to make potential investors second-guess? Even if it isn't in the notorious northern part of the country, it's not exactly a safe place. But then I guess Brazil isn't, either.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 13 Aug 2011, 00:27

Who needs streets when you can have runways... http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4713799

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 13 Aug 2011, 00:32

Why would the FIA consider America as a candidate nation when a major international sporting event would be a terrorist target?

Why would the FIA consider Russia as a candidate nation when public corruption is an everyday fact of life and some suspect Putin has his political opponents - like Mikhail Khodorkovsky - imprisoned?

Why would the FIA consider Great Britain as a candidate nation when the capital was torn apart by four days of rioting?

akmuq · Post by **akmuq** » 13 Aug 2011, 00:38

ADx_Wales wrote:Who needs streets when you can have runways... http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4713799

That's just a couple of straights and a few chicanes.... Montreal then.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 13 Aug 2011, 07:01

akmuq wrote:
ADx_Wales wrote:Who needs streets when you can have runways... http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4713799

That's just a couple of straights and a few chicanes.... Montreal then.

akmuq, you're now here on F1Rejects as well!! Great to see you man. Maybe we can get the entire GTPlanet to join :lol:

akmuq · Post by **akmuq** » 13 Aug 2011, 13:52

Peter wrote:
akmuq wrote:
ADx_Wales wrote:Who needs streets when you can have runways... http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4713799

That's just a couple of straights and a few chicanes.... Montreal then.

akmuq, you're now here on F1Rejects as well!! Great to see you man. Maybe we can get the entire GTPlanet to join

ENTIRE??????

They would start talking about the lack of premiums in Gran Turismo though... :lol:

Nice sig by the way :lol:

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 14 Aug 2011, 22:17

akmuq wrote:
Peter wrote:
akmuq, you're now here on F1Rejects as well!! Great to see you man. Maybe we can get the entire GTPlanet to join

ENTIRE??????

They would start talking about the lack of premiums in Gran Turismo though...

Nice sig by the way

Welcome! We hold a competition for Gran Turismo players if you're interested.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 24 Aug 2011, 02:52

sooo any more talks or rumors of...well anything?
one thing i really miss...

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 29 Sep 2011, 02:30

bump attempt #2. i think they should put Zandvoort on the schedule for 2013.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 29 Sep 2011, 06:29

nome66 wrote:sooo any more talks or rumors of...well anything?

Bernie has said that once Russia is ready, he'll switch focus to South Africa and Mexico. Both countries have said they want in; the South Africans have been trying to put together a bid to hold a race in Cape Town, but I'm hearing that apparently it won't happen without the support of the national government, so the race could potentially happen in Gauteng Provence; the Mexicans have also expressed interest, but they're gone quiet. The last we heard, they were evaluating potential sites. Argentina have also said they'd like a race - they're looking at building a brand-new circuit near Zarate known as the "Ciudad Velocitaire" for TC2000, but also to Grade-1 standards.

Bernie has also said that the Greeks are interested in a Grand Prix, but given the current state of their economy, it's unlikely to happen. Apaprently a private enterprise was looking at borrowing money from Germany to make a race happen.

And finally, the Brazilians are planning a new circuit in Rio, but since they've already got Interlagos, there are no plans to move the Brazilian Grand Prix:

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 29 Sep 2011, 06:37

^ Looks like combination of Suzuka and Sepang... :roll:

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 29 Sep 2011, 06:51

I quite like that Rio design and it does look quite fast.

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 29 Sep 2011, 13:13

I don't see much in the vein of overtaking on that design though, not a bad effort and quite original

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 29 Sep 2011, 15:53

A simple un-Tilke like design, but why do we need that when Interlagos has an unbeatable atmosphere, pure old fashioned motorsport and a track that is swept beautifully for lots of overtaking. It would be one of the saddest days in F1 when they move it elsewhere (which they inevitably will, because they are c____s.)

Post by **mario** » 29 Sep 2011, 20:38

jackanderton wrote:A simple un-Tilke like design, but why do we need that when Interlagos has an unbeatable atmosphere, pure old fashioned motorsport and a track that is swept beautifully for lots of overtaking. It would be one of the saddest days in F1 when they move it elsewhere (which they inevitably will, because they are c____s.)

Assuming that the track is even built in the first place, though - I'm guessing from the tone of Captain Hammer's post that this circuit is still very much in the design phase, and there is no confirmation that the circuit will even be built to the required Grade 1 standards for the FIA to permit an F1 race to take place (it could, for example, be built for national series like Brazilian Stock Cars).

Besides, it is hardly as if Interlagos doesn't have major faults of its own, not least the recent spate of accidents that have occurred (though there were other aggravating factors, there were some problems - such as inadequate drainage in wet weather conditions - that played a role in some of those accidents). Even if this new proposed track does materialise, and is up to Grade 1 standards, though, in the short term the biggest threat to Interlagos would be the FIA downgrading for revoking Interlagos's licence following the recent spate of accidents (I believe that there might still be an ongoing investigation into the most recent accident).

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 30 Sep 2011, 00:34

The recent accidents have been in motorsport formula in no way comparable to Formula 1. We've been racing on the same circuit for 20 years and the fact we have been doing that alone is testament to its safety. If it was unsafe Formula 1 would have left by now. This is an old circuit, it doesn't hide secrets.

The poor drainage is one meritorious issue I can think of. The counter argument is it is very rarely wet and when it is it provides exciting races and hardly ever any safety issues.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 30 Sep 2011, 00:39

jackanderton wrote:A simple un-Tilke like design, but why do we need that when Interlagos has an unbeatable atmosphere,

It's not being built for Formula 1. My original post made that pretty clear - there are no plans to move the Brazilian Grand Prix.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 30 Sep 2011, 17:05

The design of that Brazilian circuit really looks very good. Thank you for posting.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 30 Sep 2011, 17:11

ADx_Wales wrote:Who needs streets when you can have runways... http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4713799

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Prix_of_Cleveland

... Just sayin'! :mrgreen:

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 18 Oct 2011, 10:02

Well not only is the future of the Bahrain GP being discussed, it appears Korea may be off much sooner than expected too

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95498

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 18 Oct 2011, 14:59

sswishbone wrote:Well not only is the future of the Bahrain GP being discussed, it appears Korea may be off much sooner than expected too

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95498

Can't see Bernie budging over the race fee on this one. Attempting to think like Bernie (urgh), the government money is pretty much the only reason why F1 goes to places like Korea, Bernie has been known to budge on fees, but only for places like Silverstone which have thinks like heritage, huge fan popularity and vocal support of the teams. Korea has no great history in motorsport, from reading the article it doesn't have much local support, and being a flyaway race I don't think any of the teams will be bothered if it drops off the calendar.

There are plenty of other tracks queueing up to pay Bernie's extortionate fees, so as far as I can tell the only incentive to keep it is that it won't look very good to dump it after only two years, and since when has Bernie cared about looking good?

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 18 Oct 2011, 18:54

Cynon wrote:
ADx_Wales wrote:Who needs streets when you can have runways... http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4713799

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Prix_of_Cleveland

... Just sayin'!

DRS on every straight! indycar needs cleveland.
F1 needs an airfield circuit and NO Silverstone doesn't even remotely count anymore. Maybe they should try Thruxton or Croft.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 18 Oct 2011, 20:43

Cynon wrote:
ADx_Wales wrote:Who needs streets when you can have runways... http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4713799

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Prix_of_Cleveland

... Just sayin'!

I do love the Cleveland circuit, good on rFactor whenever racing an IndyCar mod.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 19 Oct 2011, 00:19

redbulljack14 wrote:
Cynon wrote:
ADx_Wales wrote:Who needs streets when you can have runways... http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4713799

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Prix_of_Cleveland

... Just sayin'!

I do love the Cleveland circuit, good on rFactor whenever racing an IndyCar mod.

It's a blast in NASCAR Racing 2003 Season as well, regardless what physics you run. My NR2003 "IndyCar" online league runs there regularly and it's usually pretty epic, especially since with NR2003 physics that last chicane can be used for Petrovyashi banzai moves. :mrgreen:

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 19 Oct 2011, 10:24

Cynon wrote:
It's a blast in NASCAR Racing 2003 Season as well, regardless what physics you run. My NR2003 "IndyCar" online league runs there regularly and it's usually pretty epic, especially since with NR2003 physics that last chicane can be used for Petrovyashi banzai moves.

Petrovyashi banzai moves? Meaning desperate late no breaking dive that sticks because it takes out the opposition ?

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 19 Oct 2011, 21:06

DanielPT wrote:
Cynon wrote:
It's a blast in NASCAR Racing 2003 Season as well, regardless what physics you run. My NR2003 "IndyCar" online league runs there regularly and it's usually pretty epic, especially since with NR2003 physics that last chicane can be used for Petrovyashi banzai moves.

Petrovyashi banzai moves? Meaning desperate late no breaking dive that sticks because it takes out the opposition ?

More like banzai move that works because you have balls and the other guy doesn't really see it coming or anticipates you will crash. It's a hero or zero move. Depending on who makes the move, you kind of have an idea which it will be... :lol:

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 19 Oct 2011, 22:32

Example. Canada 2007, Alonso vs Sato.
the better? Sato. Hero! GO GO TAKU!!

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 20 Oct 2011, 00:06

nome66 wrote:Example. Canada 2007, Alonso vs Sato.
the better? Sato. Hero! GO GO TAKU!!

Possibly the most epic move done in the last 10 years!

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 30 Nov 2011, 10:39

Interesting rumour (note RUMOUR) on BBC from some untapped source claiming Bernie Eccelstone says westrn europe is finished as a top Formula 1 venue and will soon only host five races... Well we know Silverstone has a long contract, Monaco won't be dropped, but I get the feeling we may see catalunya/Valencia (either or), Spa and possibly Monza might go. What does everyone else think?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 30 Nov 2011, 10:41

BBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 30 Nov 2011, 10:48

sswishbone wrote:Interesting rumour (note RUMOUR) on BBC from some untapped source claiming Bernie Eccelstone says westrn europe is finished as a top Formula 1 venue and will soon only host five races... Well we know Silverstone has a long contract, Monaco won't be dropped, but I get the feeling we may see catalunya/Valencia (either or), Spa and possibly Monza might go. What does everyone else think?

Of course we are finished as a top Formula 1 venues. We don't have cash to spend on Bernie! If the new venues keep being built by Tilke though, we will still have most of the best (and most historical but that does not really matter) circuits in the world. The other top tracks can be found in United States (which aren't visited by F1), Japan and Brazil. Not much then.

Minardi Man · Post by **Minardi Man** » 30 Nov 2011, 12:16

I could possibly see valencia dropped, but i can't see the others.
Unless Bernie only wants a selection of the most boring tracks outside of europe.

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 30 Nov 2011, 12:58

I think that in the mid term GP´s at Monaco, UK, Italy and Hungary will stay + one in Germany/Belgium. Given the current economical situation in Spain it could possibly go when Alonso retires. That would make for just the 5 races Bernie is thinking. I see it ok as long as Tilke stops designing the new tracks.