2012 Silly Season

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 05 Sep 2011, 19:15

AdrianSutil wrote:As possibly the forums biggest Sutil fan, I'd love to see him at Williams next year. He will have a massive opportunity to raise his profile, especially as a proper team leader. Although Williams appear to be slowly dying, they have the technical knowledge to seriously improve the car. Are Williams a true privateer team still? I think that's sadly the man reason why they'd slipped so far back in recent years.

Williams are a privateer team still.

And about you being the biggest Sutil fan, the username may help, although AFAIK Sutil is thehemogoblin's favourite driver.

razta · Post by **razta** » 10 Sep 2011, 10:19

More silly season news from the team personell point

Chris Dyer is being reported to alledgely be going to Merc, as well as Aldo Costa
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94419
and Costa
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94335

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 10 Sep 2011, 16:43

I've been spending too much time on the Alternative Championships. For a moment I thought that said:

razta wrote:Chris Dagnall is being reported to alledgely be going to Merc, as well as Aldo Costa
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94419

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 10 Sep 2011, 19:21

Does this mean Chris Dagnall will be transferring from Scunthorpe United to Queens Park Rangers in the January transfer window?

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 10 Sep 2011, 20:56

kostas22 wrote:Does this mean Chris Dagnall will be transferring from Scunthorpe United to Queens Park Rangers in the January transfer window?

QPR's league position?

That'll be the Lotus position, now Tony Fernandes is Chairman.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 10 Sep 2011, 22:25

kostas22 wrote:Does this mean Chris Dagnall will be transferring from Scunthorpe United to Queens Park Rangers in the January transfer window?

At least he won't be in claret and blue then.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 11 Sep 2011, 04:31

This is more of a fantasy grid than anything else: the silliest season of all!

Red Bull Racing / Renault (Red Bull RB8)
#1 - Sebastian VETTEL (GER)
#2 - Robert KUBICA (POL)

With Renault backing out as a constructor and seeking to distance themselves from the silliness elsewhere on the grid, Red Bull becomes the "unofficial" works team. Unable to answer to Vettel, Mark Webber steadily loses interest and decides to retire, forming a joint venture with Christian Horner to run teams in GP2 and GP3. With Toro Rosso up for sale, the Red Bull Young Driver Program is terminated and Helmut Marko is reassigned. Webber ultiamtely takes his place as driver manager.

Vodafone McLaren Automotive / Mercedes (McLaren MP4-27)
#3 - Jenson BUTTON (GBR)
#4 - Lewis HAMILTON (GBR)

McLaren run an unchanged lineup, with Button designated as team leader. Lewis Hamilton's 2011 season is largely awful as he simply tries too hard and ends up over-driving the car. Although he narrowly out-scores Button, Martin Whitmarsh promotes Button to team leader to give Hamilton a chance to recuperate and fidn his mojo again. However, many fans take this as a public vote of no confidence in Hamilton.

Scuderia Ferrari Sanatander (Ferrari F2012)
#5 - Fernando ALONSO (ESP)
#6 - Nico ROSBERG (GER)

Ferrari insist Felipe Massa's place in the team is secure even as the ink on Rosberg's contract is drying. Rosberg, unsatisfied with his performance at Mercedes, faces criticism for signing with a team where he will be treated as a number two driver, but Rosberg points out that he at least stands a chance at winning with Ferrari.

Mercedes GP Petronas (Mercedes W03)
#7 - Michael SCHUMACHER (GER)
#8 - Paul DI RESTA (GBR)

With Rosberg out, di Resta is immediately drafted into the team. Nico Hulkenberg campaigns for the seat, but Ross Brawn shoots him down, stating that because they wanted someone with racing experience on the Pirelli tyres, Paul di Resta was the first, last and only choice.

Force India F1 / Mercedes (Force India VJM05)
#9 - Felipe MASSA (BRA)
#10 - Sebastien BUEMI (SUI)

Vijay Mallya finds himself in an unusual position when both his drivers leave after the team's best season. Nico Hulkenberg is the favourite for a seat, but as he is too busy campainging for the Mercedes drive alongside Schumacher, Mallya does not bother talking with him, instead picking up the heartbroken Felipe Massa and Toro Rosso refugee Buemi.

Claro Sauber F1 / Ferrari (Sauber C31)
#11 - Sergio PEREZ (MEX)
#12 - Kamui KOBAYASHI (JPN)

Perez and Kobayashi remain at Sauber or the 2012 season. Both are strongly linked to other drives in the future - Ferrari for Perez and McLaren for Kobayashi - but both remain firmly entrenched in the team. Peter Sauber shrugs off thoughts of retirement and instead decides to take his team places, sick of being treated as a breeding ground for young talent.

Medion WilliamsF1 / Renault (Williams FW34)
#15 - Pastor MALDONADO (VEN)
#14 - Adrian SUTIL (GER)

2011 is an absolute disaster for Williams, with many fans feeling they have spent too much time concentrating on areas other than Formula 1. Listening to his shareholders, Sir Frank decides to get back on-track, drafting Adrian Sutil in from Force India to race alongside Maldonado, who ended the 2011 season ahead of Barrichello in the points table. Barrichello considers racing in 2012, but is talked down by Jean Todt, who wants the Brazilian to be the next FIA president.

Virgin Marussia Racing / Cosworth (Marussia VMR/3)
#16 - Timo GLOCK (GER)
#17 - Jerome D'AMBROSIO (BEL)

A race of attrition gives Virgin their first points in 2011. The team initially consider letting d'Ambrosio go, but Pat Symonds talks them out of it, insisting that with big changes to the technical department, continuity in the driver line-up is paramount. A quick reshuffling of ownership means the chassis is now designated a Marussia.

Hispania Racing Team / Cosworth (Hispania F112)
#18 - Daniel RICCIARDO (AUS)
#19 - Ho-Pin TUNG (CHN)

With Riccardo out-scoring Liuzzi and the sale of Toro Rosso, the Australian gets another season with HRT. Chinese investment means that Ho-Pin Tung gets a race seat.

IPIC Team UAE / Ferrari (UAE Aleph)
#20 - Jaime ALGUERSUARI (ESP)
#21 - Davide VALSECCHI (ITA)

Toro Rosso is finally sold to IPIC, the Emirati petrochemical consortium. Alguersuari does enough to save his seat, while GP2 starlet Davide Valsecchi is picked up, much to Tony Fernandes' chagrin. Nico Hulkenberg is considered for a drive, but refuses to find sponsors for the team. With two years on the sidelines, his career in Formula 1 is largely over. The chassis is designated 'Aleph', after the first letter in the Arabic alphabet.

Caterham Team AirAsia / Renault (Caterham Fernandes Type-3)
#22 - Heikki KOVALAINEN (FIN)
#23 - Romain GROSJEAN (FRA)

And the Nobel Prize for Excellence in Pettiness goes to ... Tony Fernandes! Despite agreeing to a deal that will see Renault take on the Lotus name, Fernandes deicdes one last parthian shot, deliberately filing his paperwork late, and forcing Renault to wait for a name change and losing their claim to the FOM payout. Renault respond to this by starting another law suit, and this time, they win. Fernandes is forced to pay his share of the FOM payout to Renault as compensation, on top of their earnings for fifth place.

Prodrive Lotus Grand Prix / Renault (Prodrive PL32)
#24 - Vitaly PETROV (RUS)
#25 - Giedo VAN DER GARDE (NED)

The internal mess that is Renault is bought and smoothed out by Dave Richards. Richards senses blood in the water at Group Lotus, and has positioned himself to buy the manufacturer (despite claims that Fernandes would buy it up). Richards' partner in the buy-out is Giedo van der Garde's father-in-law, and van der Garde gets a seat in Kubica's place.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 11 Sep 2011, 08:20

looks like Team Lotus has re-signed Jarno. *yawn*

Post by **mario** » 11 Sep 2011, 09:06

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:looks like Team Lotus has re-signed Jarno. *yawn*

You're right about that - the reports are now coming through that Trulli has signed a one year contract extension until 2012. So, that is one more seat ticked off for next year, and another team sticking with their established line up. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94465

So, if I remember well, this is how the grid lines up for next year, is it not?

Red Bull: Vettel/Webber
McLaren: Hamilton/TBC - but Button is almost certain to resign, even if other teams are rumoured to have been taking a very strong interest in him.
Ferrari: Alonso/Massa
Mercedes: Schumacher/TBC - Rosberg's contract expires in 2011, though, given that most of the top tier teams are full, there are few other teams he can go to.
Renault: Petrov/Kubica - in theory Kubica still has a seat at Renault for 2012, but it remains to be seen whether he will be fit to drive.
Sauber: Kobayashi/Perez
Force India: TBC/TBC - with no official announcement expected until the end of the year, as Force India want to evaluate both drivers over the entire season.
Toro Rosso: TBC/TBC - this is potentially the most interesting one, since the relative performances of Alguersuari and Buemi have swung back and forth across the season, and Ricciardo might fancy his chances of replacing one of those two.
Williams: TBC/TBC - Maldonado's seat is virtually guaranteed thanks to the PDVSA deal, even if technically he hasn't been confirmed for 2012, though Barrichello's position is uncertain.
Team Lotus: Kovalainen/Trulli
Marussia Virgin Racing: Glock/TBC - D'Ambrosio's seat is potentially up for grabs depending on sponsorship, and there are rumours that McLaren are thinking about placing one of their drivers at MVR in return for a discount on their technical services for MVR.
HRT: TBC/TBC - assuming that HRT still exist next year in a vaguely recognisable form (given the recent takeover), Ricciardo's seat will probably depend on both his performance against Liuzzi and whether Red Bull want to promote him to Toro Rosso or not. As for Liuzzi, well, whilst he has put in a solid performance at HRT (including that opportunistic 13th place in Canada that puts HRT - for now - ahead of MVR), he could also be sidelined for a pay driver, given that there are quite a few up and coming drivers looking for a seat next year.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 11 Sep 2011, 09:35

The more I think about it the more logical the Sutil to Williams theory become. Neither Williams or Sutil really have anything to lose if it doesn't work and every to gain if it does as other people have said, especially since Sutil's career has stalled in recent years and Williams are in the doldrums as we all know.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 11 Sep 2011, 09:47

I think I remember hearing during the qualifying that McLaren had taken up their option on Button.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 11 Sep 2011, 10:40

It seems Renault have set a deadline of mid-October for a decision on Kubica.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94469

This seems a little harsh as Kubica has not yet sat in a car. Time will tell, but in view of the closeness of the deadline, we may not be seeing Robert at Renault next year?

Post by **mario** » 11 Sep 2011, 11:05

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I think I remember hearing during the qualifying that McLaren had taken up their option on Button.

They do intend to take up their option on Button as the relationship between him and the team does seem to be working quite well. I think that the only sticking point is thought to be the amount of publicity work that Button has to do on behalf of the team - it's something that Hamilton has also brought up in a few of his public statements when asked about his commitment to McLaren (and was also said to be a factor in Kimi's decision to leave McLaren).

eagleash wrote:It seems Renault have set a deadline of mid-October for a decision on Kubica.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94469

This seems a little harsh as Kubica has not yet sat in a car. Time will tell, but in view of the closeness of the deadline, we may not be seeing Robert at Renault next year?

It does seem to be fairly tough, given that the doctors originally indicated that he might still need a few months yet to really recover full strength, and, more importantly, full physical dexterity in his hand. True, part of the reason might be because Boullier is deliberately setting Kubica a challenge to spur him on - but, as a few other commentators here have posited, it may also be the case that Boullier wants Kubica to fail so he can sack him, thereby freeing up his seat for either Bruno or Romain in 2012. Given that the team has been suffering recently (especially with multiple high ranking staff defecting to other teams), and is in need of sponsorship cash, the latter scenario isn't improbable...

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 11 Sep 2011, 11:57

mario wrote:
eagleash wrote:It seems Renault have set a deadline of mid-October for a decision on Kubica.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94469

This seems a little harsh as Kubica has not yet sat in a car. Time will tell, but in view of the closeness of the deadline, we may not be seeing Robert at Renault next year?

It does seem to be fairly tough, given that the doctors originally indicated that he might still need a few months yet to really recover full strength, and, more importantly, full physical dexterity in his hand. True, part of the reason might be because Boullier is deliberately setting Kubica a challenge to spur him on - but, as a few other commentators here have posited, it may also be the case that Boullier wants Kubica to fail so he can sack him, thereby freeing up his seat for either Bruno or Romain in 2012. Given that the team has been suffering recently (especially with multiple high ranking staff defecting to other teams), and is in need of sponsorship cash, the latter scenario isn't improbable...

Exactly!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 13 Sep 2011, 12:03

eagleash wrote:
mario wrote:
eagleash wrote:It seems Renault have set a deadline of mid-October for a decision on Kubica.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94469

This seems a little harsh as Kubica has not yet sat in a car. Time will tell, but in view of the closeness of the deadline, we may not be seeing Robert at Renault next year?

It does seem to be fairly tough, given that the doctors originally indicated that he might still need a few months yet to really recover full strength, and, more importantly, full physical dexterity in his hand. True, part of the reason might be because Boullier is deliberately setting Kubica a challenge to spur him on - but, as a few other commentators here have posited, it may also be the case that Boullier wants Kubica to fail so he can sack him, thereby freeing up his seat for either Bruno or Romain in 2012. Given that the team has been suffering recently (especially with multiple high ranking staff defecting to other teams), and is in need of sponsorship cash, the latter scenario isn't improbable...

Exactly!

It'll be a great shame if this happens while Kubica proves to actually still be capable of doing a good job after a full recovery...

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 13 Sep 2011, 16:50

Red Bull Racing Renault
#1 Sebastian Vettel
#2 Mark Webber

After winning the title in Suzuka for both the team and himself, Vettel backs up Webber to help him up to second in the drivers' championship. They know they can rely on the magic of Adrian Newey next season too.

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes
#3 Jenson Button
#4 Lewis Hamilton

Hamilton's retirements cost him dearly as he can't get over his teammate's score, so he ends up behind Button and is forced to wear the higher number the next season for the first time not having previous season's World Champion as a team mate. Button helps McLaren to beat Ferrari easily to the second place in the constructors'.

Scuderia Ferrari Santander
#5 Fernando Alonso
#6 Felipe Massa

Alonso slips back to fifth in the championship as his car is simply becoming only the third fastest car at the end of the season and even his race skills can't help him. Massa finishes sixth, albeit over a 100 points behind Fernando, however, he gets himself together to score two third places at the end of the season.

Mercedes GP Petronas
#7 Michael Schumacher
#8 Adrian Sutil

Michael improves himself at the end of the season and finally breaks his podium duck by finishing third in India, beating Nico Rosberg to seventh place in the drivers' as well. Rosberg himself gets fed up seeing Mercedes not really improving under his hand and leaves the team. Interestingly, piano player Sutil is drafted in instead of Di Resta and Hülkenberg. Ross Brawn says "They need some time to develop first."

Lotus Grand Prix Renault
#9 Vitaly Petrov
#10 Bruno Senna

Renault reverts to engine supplier and Lotus becomes the team's actual name for real, so now Martin Brundle and David Coulthard can get away saying Lotus Renault when the black and gold cars show up. Bouiller keeps the team line-up after a dreadful end to the 2011 season resembling the 2009 one, however he has a certain Frenchman as third driver...

Force India F1 Mercedes
#11 Paul Di Resta
#12 Nico Hülkenberg

After finishing only 10 points behind Renault in 2011 by scoring two fourth places in India and Brazil, Vijay Mallya finally lets Adrian Sutil to drive for the Mercedes team, but he drafts in Hülkenberg, hoping to finish fifth the next season.

Cepsa Scuderia Toro Rosso Ferrari
#14 Jaime Alguersuari
#15 Daniel Ricciardo

Alguersuari improves his qualify results and constantly finishes Q3 at the end of the season, and his batch of 7th place finishes help the team to catch seventh place in the WCC, but they have no answer to Force India's end-year improvement. Buemi gets the boot and that lets Ricciardo in. Cepsa becomes title sponsor.

Telmex Sauber Ferrari
#16 Kamui Kobayashi
#17 Sergio Perez

Peter Sauber's team only scores five points in the final races, while their rivals score at least 25 apiece. No chance of finishing higher than 8th. Drivers being kept, engine being kept, Sauber now focuses to fight back in 2012.

PDVSA Williams Renault
#18 Pastor Maldonado
#19 Nico Rosberg

Hopeless 9th place, Barrichello decides to retire after seeing the team decline under his leadership. Maldonado stays on with his big bag of Venezuelan money, and surprisingly, a driver returns to his debut team - Frank Williams welcomes Rosberg aboard, hoping to see him improve the team back to where it should belong - at least higher than ninth, with the help of Renault engines.

Air Asia Caterham Renault
#20 Heikki Kovalainen
#21 Jarno Trulli

Fernandez renames the team Caterham, keeps the Renault engines, keeps the drivers, seeing Kovalainen star in his team, dragging the car up into the midfield, but sadly no points in 2011.

HRT Renault
#22 Vitantonio Liuzzi
#23 Davide Valsecchi

Two Italians and a new engine... and a fully... black livery to start with. Interestingly, Liuzzi is kept on board, but Valsecchi joins him.

Marussia Mercedes
#24 Timo Glock
#25 Gary Paffett

For the McLaren partnership, Gary Paffett is drafted in, however this partnership helps the team gaining Mercedes engines, entirely knocking Cosworth out of the F1 again.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 13 Sep 2011, 17:16

Hamilton had the higher number in 2010 too becuase of Button joining the team.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 13 Sep 2011, 17:55

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:looks like Team Lotus has re-signed Jarno. *yawn*

Couldn't agree more. What a waste of a drive.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 13 Sep 2011, 18:42

Faustus wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:looks like Team Lotus has re-signed Jarno. *yawn*

Couldn't agree more. What a waste of a team.

Fixed.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 13 Sep 2011, 19:44

James1978 wrote:Hamilton had the higher number in 2010 too becuase of Button joining the team.

Oops, I totally forgot that... :oops:

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 13 Sep 2011, 20:27

Shizuka wrote:Hamilton's retirements cost him dearly as he can't get over his teammate's score, so he ends up behind Button and is forced to wear the higher number the next season for the first time not having previous season's World Champion as a team mate.

James1978 wrote:Hamilton had the higher number in 2010 too becuase of Button joining the team.

Shizuka wrote:Oops, I totally forgot that...

You were right, the way I interpreted it: the only two seasons where Lewis Hamilton had a higher number than his team-mate were 2007 and 2010, where he was partnered with the current World Champion, and hence had to have 2 on his car.

Or did you edit the post and change it from something more vague without the forum software picking up the edit, because I notice it doesn't always show "this post was edited by... at..." at the bottom.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 13 Sep 2011, 23:27

Scoring less points than your teammate doesn't really guarantee the yellow T-Bar unless your teammate is the reining world champ. In fact it's all up to the drivers and the team, as the yellow T-bar, while usually to distinguish the first driver between the second, is little more than just a means of distinguishing the drivers. Schumacher for example, has the red because he doesn't like even numbers :lol:

Teams aren't obligated to give the better scoring driver the red T-Bar.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 13 Sep 2011, 23:41

Peter wrote:Scoring less points than your teammate doesn't really guarantee the yellow T-Bar unless your teammate is the reining world champ.

Except McLaren have a policy of giving the 'higher' number to the driver who scored the most points in the championship. So if Button finishes the season in front of Hamilton, then (assuming they finish second overall in the WCC) Button will be car #3 and Hamilton will be car #4.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 14 Sep 2011, 06:57

dinizintheoven wrote:Or did you edit the post and change it from something more vague without the forum software picking up the edit, because I notice it doesn't always show "this post was edited by... at..." at the bottom.

I edited the post: first I wrote "wear the higher number for the first time since 2007", but then James1978 informed me about Button, so I edited it.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 15 Sep 2011, 01:08

dinizintheoven wrote:Or did you edit the post and change it from something more vague without the forum software picking up the edit, because I notice it doesn't always show "this post was edited by... at..." at the bottom.

The way the phpBB software is set-up by default means that time of editing message only appears if said message is edited after a follow up message is posted. If it's the most recently posted message in that thread and it is edited, it won't show.
There's your definitive answer if you were wondeirng...

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 15 Sep 2011, 09:22

kostas22 wrote:
dinizintheoven wrote:Or did you edit the post and change it from something more vague without the forum software picking up the edit, because I notice it doesn't always show "this post was edited by... at..." at the bottom.

The way the phpBB software is set-up by default means that time of editing message only appears if said message is edited after a follow up message is posted. If it's the most recently posted message in that thread and it is edited, it won't show.
There's your definitive answer if you were wondeirng...

Shizuka wrote:
dinizintheoven wrote:Or did you edit the post and change it from something more vague without the forum software picking up the edit, because I notice it doesn't always show "this post was edited by... at..." at the bottom.

I edited the post: first I wrote "wear the higher number for the first time since 2007", but then James1978 informed me about Button, so I edited it.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 15 Sep 2011, 14:41

kostas22 wrote:The way the phpBB software is set-up by default means that time of editing message only appears if said message is edited after a follow up message is posted. If it's the most recently posted message in that thread and it is edited, it won't show.
There's your definitive answer if you were wondeirng...

I was sort-of-wondering, because I'd noticed that it tended to work that way, so this doesn't come as too much of a surprise. Absolute confirmation is always welcome.

S951 · Post by **S951** » 15 Sep 2011, 18:38

saw this thread about williams on another forum mentions a driver from finland..............

http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthr ... 934&page=8

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 15 Sep 2011, 19:33

If Chavez is overthrown at some point in the next six to nine months this is how I see Williams' lineup looking like next season;

#1 (no, not the successful one)
#2 (no, not the Italian one)

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 15 Sep 2011, 19:55

And I say a return of Ralf to Williams would to wonders for them. There is a reason they stopped winning once he wasn't there anymore. :lol:

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 16 Sep 2011, 00:34

Hell no. Ralf is hopeless, and Yamamoto's place as Virgin's reserve is well secure with his millions. Virgin won't want to let him go, and Yamamoto won't want to be on a sinking ship.

As for Williams' actual lineup, I don't see Rubens leaving the team. Part of Williams' plan to turn themselves around would require an experienced driver to lead them on in developement. I don't know if Maldonado will be there in 2012, as he and his sponsors only signed for 1 year, and may or may not continue their partnership. If not, or if Senna can deliver more money to the team, then Bruno Senna may take that seat.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 16 Sep 2011, 10:05

Peter wrote:As for Williams' actual lineup, I don't see Rubens leaving the team. Part of Williams' plan to turn themselves around would require an experienced driver to lead them on in developement.

Usually I would agree with you, but that was already the plan last year (hence they hired Rubens) and Williams have gone backwards. They should forget that 'we need an experienced driver' stuff and put someone like Mikhail Aleshin to snatch some Roubles for the team. No one can improve this Williams car anyway...

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 16 Sep 2011, 11:51

DanielPT wrote:
Peter wrote:As for Williams' actual lineup, I don't see Rubens leaving the team. Part of Williams' plan to turn themselves around would require an experienced driver to lead them on in developement.

Usually I would agree with you, but that was already the plan last year (hence they hired Rubens) and Williams have gone backwards. They should forget that 'we need an experienced driver' stuff and put someone like Mikhail Aleshin to snatch some Roubles for the team. No one can improve this Williams car anyway...

Hence why Sutil to Williams makes perfect sense.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 16 Sep 2011, 12:01

Wizzie wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
Peter wrote:As for Williams' actual lineup, I don't see Rubens leaving the team. Part of Williams' plan to turn themselves around would require an experienced driver to lead them on in developement.

Usually I would agree with you, but that was already the plan last year (hence they hired Rubens) and Williams have gone backwards. They should forget that 'we need an experienced driver' stuff and put someone like Mikhail Aleshin to snatch some Roubles for the team. No one can improve this Williams car anyway...

Hence why Sutil to Williams makes perfect sense.

The problem is that Sutil has no Roubles and only a handful of Euros. That certainly doesn't help Williams stockmarket... ermm, racing performance, I mean.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 16 Sep 2011, 12:02

Exactly. Sutil has more seasons left in him than Barrichello does.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 16 Sep 2011, 12:23

Anyone reckon Heidfeld to Lotus Racing would be a good move (replacing Trulli)? Heidfeld has still got the will and lots of experience, and would push someone like Kovalainen more than Jarno is. He'll also get the bugger to the end of lots of races so is a good bet for points, if they ever come.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 16 Sep 2011, 12:28

jackanderton wrote:Anyone reckon Heidfeld to Lotus Racing would be a good move (replacing Trulli)? Heidfeld has still got the will and lots of experience, and would push someone like Kovalainen more than Jarno is. He'll also get the bugger to the end of lots of races so is a good bet for points, if they ever come.

I would not mind that. Jarno is clearly past his prime (so do Heidfeld, but less. Also Heidfeld might actually help to improve Fondmetal Air Caterham team).

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 16 Sep 2011, 12:38

jackanderton wrote:Anyone reckon Heidfeld to Lotus Racing would be a good move (replacing Trulli)? Heidfeld has still got the will and lots of experience, and would push someone like Kovalainen more than Jarno is. He'll also get the bugger to the end of lots of races so is a good bet for points, if they ever come.

No, it would be a terrible move. Both Heidfeld and Trulli are past it. The second Team Fernandes seat should go to someone who is young and talented. Like Romain Grosjean.

Post by **mario** » 16 Sep 2011, 12:52

Captain Hammer wrote:
jackanderton wrote:Anyone reckon Heidfeld to Lotus Racing would be a good move (replacing Trulli)? Heidfeld has still got the will and lots of experience, and would push someone like Kovalainen more than Jarno is. He'll also get the bugger to the end of lots of races so is a good bet for points, if they ever come.

No, it would be a terrible move. Both Heidfeld and Trulli are past it. The second Team Fernandes seat should go to someone who is young and talented. Like Romain Grosjean.

Presumably, you're thinking that Grosjean might have a route into the team through the Renault engine deal - perhaps a discounted engine supply in return for a seat? Maybe, but it's plauisble that other teams might also try that same tactic - HRT, for example, could also be in the running for such a deal if the rumours that Renault are looking into supplying them are true, and they would potentially have a seat available for 2012 as neither Liuzzi or Ricciardo seem to have a definite contract for next year.

The thing is, there are still a few experienced drivers on the market - not just current drivers, but also amongst the ranks of the test drivers - who would still be potentially attractive to the team, and, given the increasing number of sponsors that Fernandes has picked up in recent months, funding is not going to be as critical for them as it is for MVR and HRT, so the team can afford to pay for a driver instead of having to take on a pay driver. And even though Grosjean has performed very well in GP2 this year, there is going to be the slight stigma of his time at Renault - yes, the car was terrible, but, even so, the mistakes that he made during his time there might well still be held against him.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 16 Sep 2011, 12:59

mario wrote:Presumably, you're thinking that Grosjean might have a route into the team through the Renault engine deal - perhaps a discounted engine supply in return for a seat?

That's half of it. The other half is that the team is established, so they don't really need two safe pairs of hands anymore. Jarno Trulli offers nothing that Heikki Kovalainen cannot do. Kovalainen has really led the team this year, making it even harder to justify keeping Trulli around. The team could probably replace him with Grosjean - the reigning GP2 champion - or someone else young and fast as they begin their push into the midfield. Charles Pic and Giedo van der Garde come to mind as other candidates; so, too, Luca Fillipi who had an excellent come-from-behind drive at Monza to seal the runner-up position in the GP2 championship. Or even someone like Razia or Valsecchi from the AirAsia GP2 squad.

The point is that Jarno Trulli is old, and he's not particularly fast. He used to be held up as Formula 1's one-lap specialist, but in thirteen races this season, he's only out-qualified Kovalainen twice; he's losing his edge. And then there was that bizarre episode where he was dissatisfied with the T128's power steering, was replaced by Karun Chandhok for one race, and then was suddenly gushing about the power steering in Hungary. I just think that keeping Trulli in the seat is a waste.