F1RMGP's Official HELP! Thread

[dinizintheoven]

I am still having major problems with rearranging the circuits for the 2014 season, and I need to fix these before I can even think about starting it.

Installing Autodrómo Hermanos Rodríguez in place of TI Aida was straightforward, but Aida was a very short circuit and the race was held over 83 laps. The Mexican Grand Prix was held over 69 laps, so I need to cut that down. It's much the same problem with changing the order of Belgium and Hungary, which I've been trying to do before I put out the last WEC race; simply swapping f1ct10.dat and f1ct11.dat does not change the graphics or the name of the circuit, so when we race in "Hungary" the circuit is Spa, and in "Belgium" the circuit is Hungaroring. Unfortunately, this means the race at Spa is held over 77 laps (far too long) and the race at Hungaroring over 45 (too short).

But, I hear you ask, instead of trying to change the order of the circuits, why not run a series of non-championship races and compile the results? That, as I had always suspected, was the reason why the grids for the first few WEC races were so similar to each other. It seems that the "random grip range" is set at the same level every time the game is loaded, and there is only any variance created when a second, third, fourth (etc) non-championship race is run. And, as I'm sure you'll be aware, every time I run a WEC race, it's a case of: load DOSBox, load the game, get cracking. What I need to test now is whether these second, third, fourth (etc) races product the similar grids as well, and I have this horrible feeling they will. But that's to be found later.

Once I'd found GP2edit and could distribute the stats accordingly (as well as massively increase the random grip range for all the drivers to give the same variance as the original Microprose Grand Prix which made the 2011-13 seasons so great) I found there was still the same problem with loading the game from scratch and the grids being very similar, exactly the same way it'd been when I was just using renamed 1994 cars. So, I took to running a Championship Season instead, blasted through all the races that had already been run (and those that were never going to be run at all, i.e. Brazil, Pacific, Canada) without any qualifying and reached Britain and Germany. Finally, there was some variation in the grid and in the race! Unfortunately, that's where I hit the other wall, which was the exchange of Hungary and Belgium that needed to happen in the Championship Season. And I couldn't find a way to do it, at least not without having a very long Belgian race, so that had to be run as a non-championship race and, to my delight, came up with a particularly surprising result, both in qualifying and the race.

But, when it comes to the full 2014 F1RMGP season, I'm not satisfied with the way it's going at the moment. Sure, the Mexican circuit is installed, but I need to get the race down to 69 laps. And, if there is a way to swap Belgium and Hungary round, and have each race the correct number of laps and with the correct location and graphics on the title screen, I need to know. Because, the WEC does not race in Canada, and that's been moved to the third race of the season. As it stands, I will have to run 2014 F1RMGP as a Championship Season to generate the suspense and excitement of its predecessors, but I need to swap Belgium and Hungary *and* move Canada up the order, and that affects Imola, Monaco and Barcelona as well.

Also, one further complication that the WEC has thrown up: driver changes. While running the Championship Season, SuperAguri dropped Yuri Mitsui from his team. It was just a case of changing the name, changing the stats, export the new file to GP2, load it up, resume the Chapionship Season... oh, wait a minute, it's gone and loaded Yuri Mitsui again. Again, the only way I could see to get round this was to start a new season, blaze through all the races I needed to up to the fifth round of the WEC (i.e. Britain) and run that, save it, run Germany, and... we're into the Belgium/Hungary problem.

I think it's best if, at this point, I throw the floor open to those others who are running Alternative Championships with GP2, and see what needs to be done. Ferrarist, tristan1117, I'm looking at you in particular, though anyone else who wants to chip in is quite welcome to do so if it helps.

I am going to investigate GP2lap and see what that can do for me, and any advice on that is very welcome.

F1RMGP 2014 is scheduled to start early to mid January, so that the Grand Finale will be just before the new F1 season starts. I have to have everything absolutely sorted by then.

[dinizintheoven]

Ye gods! GP2lap just cured the Mexico problem instantly. 69 laps, what do you know. It's even called Mexico, though it doesn't come with a circuit map and so I still see TI Aida. Next stop, the Hungary/Belgium swap...

EDIT: and that is NOT cured. Round 10 is still called Hungary, has a map of the Hungaroring, we're racing 77 laps round Spa. And vice versa.

EDIT AGAIN: I've edited GP2LAP.CFG and made this change:
Track files:
f1ct10 = "circuits\f1ct11.dat"
f1ct11 = "circuits\f1ct10.dat"

- this has exactly the same effect! Hungary and Belgium still in the same order, still with the same track maps, select Hungary and we're racing 77 laps round Spa. Grrrrraaaaaaarrrrrgh!

[dinizintheoven]

Next experiment:

Keeping the files f1ct10.dat and f1ct11.dat the same, keeping the CFG file as it was originally, but swapping the names of the spajams and hunjams files: NO EFFECT. At all. Circuits in the same order, looking the same, and I have no idea why, because logically, they shouldn't be. Looking in the hunjams file it should find files for Spa, surely?

[dinizintheoven]

I've also looked in GP2lap's help file.

Under "Track Manager" it implies, very heavily, that what I did swapping the f1ct10.dat and f1ct11.dat files in the CFG file should have been all I need to do to swap the order of the two tracks. And yet, the results show me it's so much more complicated than this.

Also, MenuTrackMap is by default set to 0 (false). I set it to 1, assuming that's how the flag is supposed to be set to true, so it draws its own track layout instead of using the bitmap. But I still see the bitmap. I've tried setting it to -1, because sometimes in very bizarre systems, -1 is the code for true. No joy, again. But then, the two flags above (CatchTrackInfos and CatchSplitSegs) are set by default to 1, so WHY, when I set MenuTrackMap to 1, is this completely ignored?

CatchTrackInfo only seems to work on tracks I've imported. For Mexico, even though (annoyingly, after the flag problem I've just highlighted above) I still see the bitmap for Aida (when I've specifically asked for the crude track drawing for them all!), I see extra info: Laps (69, not 83), length, slot, tyrewear (all ?), Event and Year (1987, though I the file is the 1987-92 layout), and author. For all the others: zilch. Especially Belgium and Hungary when I'd quite like to confirm that the correct number of laps are being used!

[SuperAguri]

I use GP2Edit.

Swapping tracks around is just a case of renaming the files to what you want.

For example swapping Canada and San Marino is just a case of renaming the files.

f1ct03.dat > f1ct06.xxx
f1ct06.dat > f1ct03.dat
f1ct06.xxx > f1ct06.dat

Install files is just a case of creating the JAMs folder, copying files and renaming the .dat file to the track slot you want and using GPEdit to change the laps.

You can then use GP2Edit to change the laps, for my example I change San Marino to 61 and Canada to 69 then export to write it to GP2.

Although the track map on the race select screen title will be the same you will definately be racing at the right track with the correct laps.

GP2Edit allows you to shift the teams around just by dragging them around, this will change the random grip level so doing a non championship race will give you different results.

[dinizintheoven]

This is getting worse and worse.

I have given WinGP2Lap.exe a go, just to see if that makes editing the .CFG file easier. It doesn't! If anything, it makes it harder! Somehow, when I go into the Track Editor, it only recognises Mexico - the track I've imported from outside the game - as being a track with a name or a number of laps. What is happening? Why are the others so completely anonymous?

And why, in the name of an entire DIY store full of bathplugs, does there appear to be no way to select or change any of the tracks, or their order, or ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE TRACKS AT ALL on a menu that's called the TRACK SELECTOR?

EDIT: now, that's just brilliant. I've switched on HOF 2.5, suddenly there's a new directory with different data in it, but Windoze 7 has seen fit to hide GP2LAP.CFG from me. I know it's there, and it's not deleted, because I can't rename GP2LAP.CFG.OLD (the original, before I edited anything) back to GP2LAP.CFG because there's already a file with that name, I've got it selected to view the hidden files, but oh no, it's not going to let me see it that way either.

Paul Stoddart, Indianapolis 2005, the second coming... is imminent.

EDIT AGAIN: gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...

...even going into a Command Prompt and trying to delete the errant GP2LAP.CFG won't let me access it that way. Can't find it! But it's there, somewhere, isn't it? What am I going to have do now, load Linspire and have it find it that way?

EDIT III: So I've re-copied GP2LAP.CFG from the original ZIP file, so it's all reset to default and I can tinker with it again. Not that it appears to have the desired effect, ever, if it has any effect at all.

[dinizintheoven]

Swapping tracks around is just a case of renaming the files to what you want.
For example swapping Canada and San Marino is just a case of renaming the files.
f1ct03.dat > f1ct06.xxx
f1ct06.dat > f1ct03.dat
f1ct06.xxx > f1ct06.dat
Install files is just a case of creating the JAMs folder, copying files and renaming the .dat file to the track slot you want and using GPEdit to change the laps.You can then use GP2Edit to change the laps, for my example I change San Marino to 61 and Canada to 69 then export to write it to GP2.

I see what you mean here, and I've found the lap-number editor, but this is an ugly method. As I see it, this way, it'd sort the lap problem - editing "Hungary" to 44 laps and "Belgium" to 77 means there's be the correct number of laps per race, but I'd still have to select "Hungary" to race at Spa and "Belgium" to race at Hungaroring. That's going to get very complicated when four circuits have to be changed round to accommodate the shift in the Canadian race from sixth to third position, because San Marino, Monaco and Spain (which I've redesignated as Andorra) all keep the same order relative to each other. And there's no guarantee that I won't change the order again for future seasons...

I don't get what you mean about creating a new JAMS folder. I had to do that for Mexico City, make a new folder called MEXIJAMS to keep the JAMS for that track in (and why is it eight characters when it's seven for all the rest?) while keeping PACJAMS in case I ever want to go back to Aida (I don't, but still, may as well keep them). However: why would I need a new folder for the JAMS for Belgium and Hungary? I've looked inside the DAT files with Notepad. Inside f1ct10.dat is a series of links to the HUNJAMS folder, ditto f1ct11.dat and SPAJAMS. My point is, there is something else I have to edit, other than swapping these two files round, and other than swapping the number of laps for each race, to get this right and have Belgium shown before Hungary on the main menu, and have the bitmaps in the right places, but I don't know what I have to edit or where I will find it, or if I'd have to use a hex editor instead of Notepad and really, that will throw everything into chaos because the hex codes will be little more than utter gibberish to anyone but the original programmer or someone who knows how to code in C or whatever language the game was originally written in. The JAMS for Hungaroring and Spa are already there, in the folders they need to be in, but something is still not pointing to the right place.

GP2Edit allows you to shift the teams around just by dragging them around, this will change the random grip level so doing a non championship race will give you different results.

Now you've lost me. I'm trying to drag the teams around and it shows no signs of being able to do so. Furthermore, I see no need to do so, as surely the performance is set by the statistics I've given to each car and driver, rather than the order I've put them in on the list, right?

if there is any way - any way at all - that I can make sure that there is some kind of random variation in the performance order when I first start GP2, half my problems will be solved. When I was using GP1, I could load DOSBox, load GP1, start a non-championship race and there would be a grid, I make a note of the grid, I close DOSBox, and then I start again. Using the same circuit every time, I could do that again, and again, and again, closing and restarting DOSBox every time, and the grids would be wildly different. Bear in mind this is a game that I had not edited in any way, other than changing the names of the drivers and teams, because I never knew there was an editor. If I do the same with GP2, then the grids generated this way, via a non-championship race, whether I am using the same circuit each time or a different one, the grids have less variation than the 2011 F1 season. It's the same drivers at the front, the same drivers in the midfield, the same drivers at the back, the same two drivers DNQing every time. And that, given what I have built up over the first three F1RMGP seasons, is something I must avoid at all costs. Surely GP2 doesn't have a massive flaw in it? Or have I just missed a "random grip" checkbox somewhere?

EDIT: I've found the "allow team swapping" checkbox, so I can drag the teams up and down, but I still find this an inadequate solution. What should be generating the variance in performance from race to race is the Random Grip Range as specified to the drivers, but it seems that every time I fire up GP2, that Random Grip Range is set to the same amount for the same driver every time, and [/i]maybe[/i] it changes to the same "different" level for the second race. time for more testing.

[dinizintheoven]

A further explanation of the "random grip range" problem

Suppose I have a grid of 26 cars (disabling one team so there are no DNQs to complicate things). I allocate all the cars the same power, the default that GP2edit gives. I allocate all the drivers 1500 grip points, as per the GP2edit defaults. But I'll give them a 2000 random grip range, so - assuming that means plus or minus 1000, all the drivers can start with grip from 14000 to 16000.

HOW I'D LIKE IT TO WORK, AND HOW I THINK GP1 REALLY DID WORK:
Load DOSBox, load GP2, start a non-championship race in Brazil.
Car 1 has grip 14660, car 2 has 15240, car 3 has 15800, car 4 has 14700, car 5 has 15160...
Grid is generated.
Close DOSBox, restart DOSBox, load GP2, start a non-championship race in Brazil.
Car 1 has grip 15380, car 2 has 15480, car 3 has 14920, car 4 has 14180, car 5 has 14840...
Grid is generated.
Close DOSBox, restart DOSBox, load GP2, start a non-championship race in Brazil.
Car 1 has grip 15120, car 2 has 14520, car 3 has 15340, car 4 has 15260, car 5 has 15720...
...and so on.

HOW I HAVE THIS HORRIBLE SINKING FEELING GP2 ACTUALLY WORKS:
Load DOSBox, load GP2, start a non-championship race in Brazil.
Car 1 has grip 14660, car 2 has 15240, car 3 has 15800, car 4 has 14700, car 5 has 15160...
Grid is generated.
Close DOSBox, restart DOSBox, load GP2, start a non-championship race in Brazil.
Car 1 has grip 14660, car 2 has 15240, car 3 has 15800, car 4 has 14700, car 5 has 15160...
Grid is generated.
Close DOSBox, restart DOSBox, load GP2, start a non-championship race in Brazil.
Car 1 has grip 14660, car 2 has 15240, car 3 has 15800, car 4 has 14700, car 5 has 15160...
...and so on.


If my point about the "random" grip variation being set in stone for the first race as the game is loaded wasn't entirely clear before, it should be now. But I'm going to run some tests using this exact carset and see what happens. I will report my results.

[dinizintheoven]

OH BATHPLUG!

So. I made my identical-spec cars and identical-spec drivers. I had a non-championship qualifying session in Brazil (Friday and Saturday). I noted the results. The first and second places cars recorded exactly the same time as each other.. The slowest car was 1.483 seconds slower than pole.

I shut down DOSBox, reloaded it and GP2, and had another non-championship race in Brazil.

THE ORDER OF THE CARS WAS EXACTLY THE SAME. The first and second cars recorded exactly the same time as each other, again. The slowest car was 1.483 seconds slower than pole, again.

That is what has to be stopped.

I will now do three non-championship races in succession at Brazil without reloading DOSBox and GP2 in the interim, and we'll see how the grids of the second and third attempts compare. It really will be time to panic if they are the same as well.

By the way, SuperAguri, I suspect that if by your team-order-scrambling method, I changed the positions of the first and second teams, all that would do is swap the order of cars 1 and 3, and of cars 2 and 4.

[tristan1117]

OK. I used to run a fantasy championship on Grand Prix 2 for me and a few friends of mine. However, I wanted to use some different tracks (let's use Anderstorp as an example). I downloaded Anderstorp from grandprix2.de and I also downloaded a track manager to go with it. However, I was using an XP computer so I do not know if any track managers will work on anything else. Using the help function with the track handler, I was able to change around some of the tracks in a very confusing fashion that included about six different folders for separate tracks. The track manager also installed the tracks and the JAMs into the game for me so all I had to do was plug in the order. Unfortunately, I could never get the tracks to show the right pictures so I wrote down all the names on a separate sheet of paper and ran the championship that way. The laps were all correct and I was able to race on them with no trouble.

Secondly, about the random grip ranges. Having also run a championship in Grand Prix 1 (yes, I was very busy back then), I agree that the grip ranges were truly random every time I opened up the game.

A further explanation of the "random grip range" problem

HOW I HAVE THIS HORRIBLE SINKING FEELING GP2 ACTUALLY WORKS:
Load DOSBox, load GP2, start a non-championship race in Brazil.
Car 1 has grip 14660, car 2 has 15240, car 3 has 15800, car 4 has 14700, car 5 has 15160...
Grid is generated.
Close DOSBox, restart DOSBox, load GP2, start a non-championship race in Brazil.
Car 1 has grip 14660, car 2 has 15240, car 3 has 15800, car 4 has 14700, car 5 has 15160...
Grid is generated.
Close DOSBox, restart DOSBox, load GP2, start a non-championship race in Brazil.
Car 1 has grip 14660, car 2 has 15240, car 3 has 15800, car 4 has 14700, car 5 has 15160...
...and so on.

.

I have noticed this as well. I have looked at the qualifying results of the season so far and I have found that Daniel Moreno has taken pole in the last four races (rather convincingly as well). Although this actually makes some sense (Daniel Moreno is replacing Ayrton Senna, after all) it is also apparent that the grids seem to be about the same every time, on every circuit. Meerwick and Belo are always at the back and the gap between them and their teammates remains about the same every single time. This fact is disguised by the races, which always turn out to be a crapshoot of who can finish the race with an intact car. I have noticed that the two Jordan cars are consistently in the top ten, even though I have set a large randomness factor for both of them. However, this is not necessarily bad. I run the race in "non-championship" mode because I misspelled some names and I had to scrap the original championship season. Then, I found that non-championship races are easier to run anyway so I just used that because of my laziness. This has created the aforementioned problem of the stagnated qualifying which is not suitable to your purposes. The same problem is seen in Aerond's F1RWRS (which would explain the Mark Dagnall wins everything trend).

Is this also a problem in the races? I don't know. Again, none of the drivers are consistent enough to accurately tell, which is a problem. I have noticed then when I save a game after qualifying in a non-championship race and I run the race twice, the race is exactly the same as it was before. This is warranted, but I have not checked the scenario that you have described. I'll try that out and attempt to fix it in my own series. Secondly, it is noted that Tom Douglas, a relatively useless driver on McLaren, won the 1994 Brazilian Grand Prix (the only race that has been run in "championship season" mode) by a whopping 31 seconds over the Williams of Jack Christopherson! That result has never been repeated, and Dougalas seems to always be mired somewhere around twelfth place in every race. Very interesting. I don't know if this is changeable, and I think that it might not be. In my previous Grand Prix 2 championship (the one with Anderstorp that's run in the championship season) the races ended up being the same by the end as well (with one driver winning every single time by 26 seconds). Its a complicated problem (which I haven't done anything to solve) but I'm thinking that your test results will match my results in the F1RGP2C. I'll run my own test to clarify this.

[dinizintheoven]

GP2's Game Mechanics, laid bare

I made a spreadsheet of my findings to show the results of some qualifying sessions in Brazil with all the cars and drivers equal.

CAR SET: ALL CARS SET TO POWER (R/P) 760, POWER (Q) 770, CFP 5000
ALL DRIVERS SET TO GRIP (R/P) 15000, GRIP (Q) 15000, RGR 2000

POS: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 GAP 1st TO 26th
LOAD DOSBOX AND GP2
BRAZIL 12 18 2 10 7 3 15 20 14 25 24 26 23 17 5 9 1 6 19 16 8 13 22 11 21 4 1.483 1st and 2nd cars had same time
CLOSE AND RELOAD DOSBOX AND GP2
BRAZIL 12 18 2 10 7 3 15 20 14 25 24 26 23 17 5 9 1 6 19 16 8 13 22 11 21 4 1.483 1st and 2nd cars had same time
LEAVE CIRCUIT, RE-SELECT CIRCUIT
BRAZIL 25 11 14 26 9 4 5 24 12 19 15 7 17 10 2 20 1 18 13 16 3 6 23 8 22 21 1.515
LEAVE CIRCUIT, RE-SELECT CIRCUIT
BRAZIL 6 14 25 24 18 15 22 11 1 4 3 7 13 17 21 5 26 10 20 12 2 23 19 9 8 16 1.472 1st and 2nd cars had same time
CLOSE AND RELOAD DOSBOX AND GP2
BRAZIL 12 18 2 10 7 3 15 20 14 25 24 26 23 17 5 9 1 6 19 16 8 13 22 11 21 4 1.483 1st and 2nd cars had same time
LEAVE CIRCUIT, RE-SELECT CIRCUIT
BRAZIL 25 11 14 26 9 4 5 24 12 19 15 7 17 10 2 20 1 18 13 16 3 6 23 8 22 21 1.515
RACE AGAIN ON THIS CIRCUIT
BRAZIL 1 18 3 26 8 6 22 10 24 17 4 20 15 7 12 21 14 5 23 11 13 2 9 25 16 19 1.715

So. If I have a qualifying session, stop DOSBox and reload it and qualify on the same circuit, the qualifying results will be IDENTICAL - positions, times, everything. Also, if I leave the circuit and re-select it and do a second qualifying session, the results of that second qualifying session will be IDENTICAL to another second qualifying session where I leave DOSBox, restart it and GP2, and do two qualifying sessions in a row.

But, if I choose "Race again on this circuit", the grid will be different to if I leave the circuit and re-select the same circuit.

I see myself having to write a ZX Spectrum program telling me what to do with each race. I will have to make it choose its own random way of deciding what I do. i.e.

LOAD GP2
CHOOSE CANADA
RELOAD GP2
CHOOSE AUSTRALIA
RACE AGAIN ON THIS CIRCUIT
CHOOSE BRITAIN
RELOAD GP2
CHOOSE GERMANY
LEAVE CIRCUIT AND RACE AGAIN
CHOOSE BRAZIL

...and so on, and so on, and so on, until I get the race I'm trying to run at the time, and it doesn't tell me to re-run it. This will take up so much more time than I am prepared to give!

Meanwhile, I reloaded GP1 and tried some non-championship races in Brazil, doing a qualifying session each time, then stopping DOSBox and reloading the game each time. I note the difference between 1st and 25th, because I left it as a one-player game, and car 14 always qualifies last if I put it on Accelerated Time. These are the results, using the car numbers as given in GP1 by default:

LOAD DOSBOX AND GP1
BRAZIL 6 27 23 4 28 1 32 20 2 19 33 5 22 21 15 7 29 16 24 8 3 25 34 12 30 14 Pole 1'24.073 25th 1'31.233
CLOSE AND RELOAD DOSBOX AND GP1
BRAZIL 6 5 4 2 20 19 28 32 1 23 27 16 15 3 7 21 33 22 24 8 11 29 25 9 26 14 Pole 1'24.073 25th 1'30.480
CLOSE AND RELOAD DOSBOX AND GP1
BRAZIL 1 27 19 5 6 28 2 24 20 23 33 4 15 32 21 3 22 16 26 8 25 7 11 29 12 14 Pole 1'24.077 25th 1'31.404
CLOSE AND RELOAD DOSBOX AND GP1
BRAZIL 5 6 1 28 27 2 20 33 4 19 22 23 3 16 24 32 21 15 25 29 7 8 34 26 30 14 Pole 1'22.951 25th 1'31.195
CLOSE AND RELOAD DOSBOX AND GP1
BRAZIL 2 1 5 6 27 28 4 19 23 33 20 32 16 24 25 15 7 26 21 30 11 22 9 12 3 14 Pole 1'23.738 25th 1'31.397
CLOSE AND RELOAD DOSBOX AND GP1
BRAZIL 6 5 1 2 20 28 32 3 27 4 33 23 24 21 16 15 19 22 25 29 7 8 12 35 26 14 Pole 1'23.610 25th 1'31.115

Quod Erat Demonstrandum. GP1 randomises itself every time it's loaded. GP2 doesn't. And, in F1RMGP terms at least, that's a more serious flaw than GP1 hardly ever having any cars retire.

[dinizintheoven]

OK. I used to run a fantasy championship on Grand Prix 2 for me and a few friends of mine. However, I wanted to use some different tracks (let's use Anderstorp as an example). I downloaded Anderstorp from grandprix2.de and I also downloaded a track manager to go with it. However, I was using an XP computer so I do not know if any track managers will work on anything else. Using the help function with the track handler, I was able to change around some of the tracks in a very confusing fashion that included about six different folders for separate tracks. The track manager also installed the tracks and the JAMs into the game for me so all I had to do was plug in the order. Unfortunately, I could never get the tracks to show the right pictures so I wrote down all the names on a separate sheet of paper and ran the championship that way. The laps were all correct and I was able to race on them with no trouble.

What I am rapidly concluding, and it'd have to be put aside for the 2015 F1RMGP season, is that if I want to really change the order of the tracks, I have to download them all, and it may not be a problem. So, maybe, for the Brazilian F1RMGP race, I could download the 1998 configuration of Interlagos (not that I knew it had ever changed since 1991!) and then get the game to point at that. If my experience with installing Mexico is anything to go by, it'll work, it'll give the circuit as Brazil, and everything will be fine. However, when it comes to replacing the European tracks that I've already run WEC races on... how different will they be to the standard 1994 configurations I've been using so far?

Secondly, about the random grip ranges. Having also run a championship in Grand Prix 1 (yes, I was very busy back then), I agree that the grip ranges were truly random every time I opened up the game.

You see the tests I've just run, that should prove it - the cars weren't all equal, but even so, and despite there being car #6 on pole with the same time both the first two times, there is true randomness in there - it's not just cars 1/2/5/6 in the top four, there's a Minardi up there in the first trial! And I should have noticed this before, having run the entire 2013 F1RMGP season as non-championship races, and seeing all the bizarre grids that made... especially if you consider I had to run two qualifying sessions and two races per F1RMGP weekend.

I have noticed this as well. I have looked at the qualifying results of the season so far and I have found that Daniel Moreno has taken pole in the last four races (rather convincingly as well). Although this actually makes some sense (Daniel Moreno is replacing Ayrton Senna, after all) it is also apparent that the grids seem to be about the same every time, on every circuit. Meerwick and Belo are always at the back and the gap between them and their teammates remains about the same every single time.

As I may have mentioned, it took all of two WEC races to notice that. TWO! As soon as I'd done the second qualifying session I thought "hang on, these grids are very similar, aren't they?" The cars were very much jumbled up from the pecking order that I'd expected, but a near-identical jumble happened at the second race, and I could smell fish. I now know that it's not just fish I can smell, it's a whole warehouse full of surströmming.

This fact is disguised by the races, which always turn out to be a crapshoot of who can finish the race with an intact car. I have noticed that the two Jordan cars are consistently in the top ten, even though I have set a large randomness factor for both of them. However, this is not necessarily bad.

Sure, if there's one thing GP2 can do, it's make cars retire, but it shouldn't be all down to who retires and who doesn't... I suppose what I should do is see if the identical grids produce identical races as well, and take it from there.

I run the race in "non-championship" mode because I misspelled some names and I had to scrap the original championship season. Then, I found that non-championship races are easier to run anyway so I just used that because of my laziness. This has created the aforementioned problem of the stagnated qualifying which is not suitable to your purposes. The same problem is seen in Aerond's F1RWRS (which would explain the Mark Dagnall wins everything trend).

Due to the almost-constant production of F1RMGP, I haven't taken a lot of notice of other GP2-based championships, but at least it's not just me who's noticed this worrying trend.

As I may have mentioned right back at its inception, the whole point of the Women's European Cup was as a dry run to test whether I should migrate F1RMGP to GP2. In a way I've committed myself to using GP2 for the upcoming season, but something tells me I'm better off sticking with GP1 and seeing if there's any way that can be edited. Extra tracks, driver stats, the works. There was a link left on one of the F1RMGP threads which I'm now very tempted to investigate, though it may only have been for painting the cars differently.

[SuperAguri]

For my series, I have a small spreadsheet where I skip a column then I write down the 16 tracks from GP2, then I write down tracks I want to swap around inthe next column then in the next column the tracks I want to add. From that it is clear to me what I need to change. Then I do the changes, load the new tracks, load them up to make sure they are correct then I enter the new tracks in the first column so I know what they are. GP2Lap is handy as the track map makes it clear which track it is.

It is a pain that GP2 does stick more rigidly to the names of the default tracks, you can use a track editor program to change this but it is a lot of work for a new name.


With the Randomness of races, there are three things you can do.

Run it as a championship.

If non championship races, save the race after the race ends but before the last person crosses the line (as this is when it ends), then when you want to do the next track, load this in, finish the race then do the non championship race and repeat saving it at the end, you will find it is more random.

Else using the GP2edit, drag the team from the bottom put them at the top, save and then export. You will find that the performance does change and the random grip values will be more random.

Also do not use accelerated time as this does tend to give you samey grids and results, worse comes to the worse, just run the game in the background, change the options of the game so you use a low FPS 8.0 and turn all graphical features off, disable the soundcard too. Edit dosbox config file so that the game running in the background has the same priority as running in the foreground. I tend to do this when running the practice sessions.

[tristan1117]

Due to the almost-constant production of F1RMGP, I haven't taken a lot of notice of other GP2-based championships, but at least it's not just me who's noticed this worrying trend.

Which is why I'm planning to move to Papyrus' IndyCar Racing 2 for the foreseeable future...

[dinizintheoven]

Interesting. I've loaded the 1998 Interlagos layout into GP2, running GP2lap, and the order was:

BRAZIL 12 18 2 10 7 3 15 20 14 25 24 26 23 17 5 9 1 6 19 16 8 13 22 11 21 4 1.483 1st and 2nd cars had same time

It is now:

BRAZIL 12 2 18 10 15 3 7 14 20 25 24 23 26 8 5 17 9 1 6 19 13 22 4 16 11 21 1.596

So there's a hint of change over a (slightly) different circuit. What I will now do is set it back the way it was, start two championships, and see if the qualifying and race results are the same each time...

[dinizintheoven]

...and this has now changed from an "oh bathplug", through the DIY store full of bathplugs, to that enormous sinkhole just outside Belize.

When I run a championship from scratch, not only are the qualifying times and positions identical... SO ARE THE RACE RESULTS. The finishing times, cars that retired, cause of retirements, the lot. And also, the qualifying results from the Championship race in Brazil were exactly identical to those generated from a non-Championship race.

I think what I will have to do, for a start, is use SuperAguri's "scramble the teams in GP2edit" idea, but it won't just be moving one from the bottom to the top, I will make a Speccy program to give me the order of the teams in each slot, which will be as random as a computer is capable of. Plus, there's no value in doing this as a championship - any time I have to tweak the cars' performance, I would have to start a new championship anyway, something I've found out because of the WEC driver changes - new drivers (i.e. Keiko Ihara and Alice Powell) need new statistics. If I save the championship as it is each time, scramble the teams, and reload the championship, what I load will have the teams un-scrambled.

Then, I will not just take the first race that is presented to me, seeing as that also has initial "random" settings that are fixed. There will be another random number, probably 0 to 15, which instructs me on how many races to discard before taking the real result. So, say, if the computer comes up with "4" for the race in France, I will start a race weekend, immediately abandon it, do that again another three times, then on the fifth race weekend to be started, that's the one that gives us the results.

It's not as if I haven't had to "cheat" before. Anyone wondering where all the retirements in the 2012/13 seasons came from, given that GP1 hardly ever causes a car to retire? That was a Speccy script as well. The race finishes, then a random number of cars are "zapped" from the race with one of six or seven different ailments. GP2 gives a decent number of retirements, and also gives a reason for the retirement, but carelessly leaves out the lap the retirement happened on...

...anyway, I think, now, the 2014 F1RMGP season and the rest of the WEC will be rather less uniform than it has been, even if there are only four races left. I can hear This grumbling in the background.

[tristan1117]

How on earth is that happening?

The only time that has happened to me is by saving the game, running quali, then leaving DOSBox. Thirty minutes later, I return to the game and it is the same thing that happened before because I think GP2 does all its simulations beforehand. Just my experience.

[Klon]

Okay, lads, simple solution to the standard result problem: you need to restart the race WITHOUT closing Grand Prix 2. The random grip ranges - and therefore the varying results - do not come into play until you have exited the race once and then chose "Race again on this race track". It is a drawback but for the easy editiability it's a small price to pay as far as simulating championships goes. I'd presume the same thing holds true for an entire championship, but I haven't tried that, because doing the races seperate is a lot better for simulating than actually running the entire championship.

[Salamander]

It sounds to me like this problem with the random grip levels is a result of a small problem with the C++ random number generator; the first number it will generate will always, always be 0, but after that it will be random (well, not random per se, but as close as you can get on a computer). It sounds like the programmers forgot to call the function once before using it in the actual game. What Klon suggested should work - but first I'd try starting a non-championship race of the shortest possible length, then doing the same race again, but as a full length race. Apologies if you've already tried that - I kinda skipped the last few posts when I realised what the problem was.

[Aerond]

Okay, lads, simple solution to the standard result problem: you need to restart the race WITHOUT closing Grand Prix 2. The random grip ranges - and therefore the varying results - do not come into play until you have exited the race once and then chose "Race again on this race track". It is a drawback but for the easy editiability it's a small price to pay as far as simulating championships goes. I'd presume the same thing holds true for an entire championship, but I haven't tried that, because doing the races seperate is a lot better for simulating than actually running the entire championship.

That's the way I run F1RWRS. It doesn't even need to be the same track. I just run 3 or 4 races At different tracks and then load the track I need and start the proper session

[dinizintheoven]

Okay, lads, simple solution to the standard result problem: you need to restart the race WITHOUT closing Grand Prix 2. The random grip ranges - and therefore the varying results - do not come into play until you have exited the race once and then chose "Race again on this race track". It is a drawback but for the easy editiability it's a small price to pay as far as simulating championships goes. I'd presume the same thing holds true for an entire championship, but I haven't tried that, because doing the races seperate is a lot better for simulating than actually running the entire championship.

Looks good, and yes, I did notice when I was doing those tests earlier that "Race again on this circuit" makes a different result to "leave circuit, then select it again". However, I'd still like to see if doing exactly what I did earlier (first time, leave the circuit and come back, second time, race again on this circuit) produces an identical result for all three qualifying sessions or just the first two.

That said, I intend to "race again on this circuit" a different number of times each race, and that should definitely do the trick!

[TomWazzleshaw]

Would this same principle on randomised results apply to GP4 as well?

[Salamander]

Would this same principle on randomised results apply to GP4 as well?

If you have the same problem, then presumably yes.

[FMecha]

Since I'm noob to install GP2 tracks: why in WinGP2Lap the default tracks are shown as "no name"?

I know this has nothing to do with F1RMGP, but I have the relatively same problem.

[dinizintheoven]

Now I've got GP2lap sorted (or as sorted as I need it to be... see how the Bathurst Enduro is progressing? That's proof it works), show us some screenshots and I might have a better idea what you're doing. Show us also the relevant section of the file you're editing to get the tracks implanted.

[FMecha]

That's my problem.

[dinizintheoven]

I see what you're doing. I never use WinGP2lap - I run it from the command line in DOSBox. Looking at WinGP2lap I see the same thing - all 16 tracks have no name, and it's listing all the standard circuits (f1ct**.dat) - whereas what I've got set up in gp2lap.cfg is mexcity.dat in the slot where Aida is, and bathurst.dat where Adelaide should be (so that I can run the Bathurst Enduro). I edit gp2lap.cfg manually so that it looks a bit like this:

Code: Select all

[Track files]
f1ct01 = "circuits\f1ct01.dat"    ; Note: relative to your current GP2 directory;
f1ct02 = "circuits\mexcity.dat"    ;      currently not supporting long filenames
f1ct03 = "circuits\f1ct03.dat"
f1ct04 = "circuits\f1ct04.dat"
f1ct05 = "circuits\f1ct05.dat"
f1ct06 = "circuits\f1ct06.dat"
f1ct07 = "circuits\f1ct07.dat"
f1ct08 = "circuits\f1ct08.dat"
f1ct09 = "circuits\f1ct09.dat"
f1ct10 = "circuits\f1ct10.dat"
f1ct11 = "circuits\f1ct11.dat"
f1ct12 = "circuits\f1ct12.dat"
f1ct13 = "circuits\f1ct13.dat"
f1ct14 = "circuits\f1ct14.dat"
f1ct15 = "circuits\f1ct15.dat"
f1ct16 = "circuits\bathurst.dat"

Bathurst originally came as Bathurst_NSW_99.dat, which won't work (the game defaults to Adelaide when installed in that slot) until it's renamed to something eight characters long or less (hence bathurst.dat). This is David Richards' & Glen Durden's version of the track, which as soon as I had installed it was generating qualifying laps of about the same times as the V8 Supercars were doing in 2011. Convenient, that...

One thing not to be concerned about is the track maps - Mexico City still shows up as the map of Aida and Bathurst as the map of Adelaide - but the cars drive around the track correctly.

I'd drop WinGP2lap if I were you and do it this way. It works.