The Dakar Rally thread

[dr-baker]

Only because other motorsports are covered and I thought this one ought to be, especially as it is running at the moment. And there has been a link between F1 Rejects and the Dakar Rally thanks to Jean-Louis Schlesser, I believe.

Is anybody following it this year? I have so far just read a few reports on Autosport and Mini seem to be doing well, 5 in the top ten after the second day.

[DemocalypseNow]

Thanks to Dakar, 2012 didn't even last 24 hours without a motorsport fatality. Hopefully not a sign of things to come

[DanielPT]

This year, just like last year, Schlesser is instead in Africa Eco race practically racing himself. It will be difficult but I think he might win it...

I am following Dakar because I love the spirit, the adventure and because it is tough. All this despite being much more dangerous than other forms of motorsport and having a high rate of deaths per race. And I follow it because it counts with a few important Portuguese participations. Both Gonçalves and Rodrigues are the main guys of Husqvarna and Yamaha respectively. We still have Faria helping Despres in the KTM. In the cars, Carlos Sousa is the leader for the Chinese effort Great Wall. He is doing pretty good at the moment. Finally Leal dos Santos is driving one of the official Minis although he realistically is only the fourth or fifth guy on raw pace alone.

Reject wise, I detected the familiar name of Norberto Fontana in a car (which one I cannot recall).

[dr-baker]

Wow, Great Wall are taking part?! Where are they placed in the classification?

And yes, sadly, it is an inherently dangerous form of motorsport. It is worse, I believe, than the Manx TT, that has had 200+ deaths in its 100 or so years of running, around 2 per year.

"You can't love the death. You can't love the loss. But you can't love the excitment and the thrill without knowing that that's part of it."

YouTube clip of this quotation, for those who are interested.

[DanielPT]

Wow, Great Wall are taking part?! Where are they placed in the classification?

You have Carlos Sousa placed 9th, 21.46 minutes behind Holowczyc and then you have Yong Zhou, provisionally 35th about 4 hours and 5 minutes behind.

By the way, Fontana is driving a private Volkswagen.

[dr-baker]

Wow, Great Wall are taking part?! Where are they placed in the classification?

You have Carlos Sousa placed 9th, 21.46 minutes behind Holowczyc and then you have Yong Zhou, provisionally 35th about 4 hours and 5 minutes behind.

By the way, Fontana is driving a private Volkswagen.

A Chinese car in the top-10?!

[DanielPT]

Wow, Great Wall are taking part?! Where are they placed in the classification?

You have Carlos Sousa placed 9th, 21.46 minutes behind Holowczyc and then you have Yong Zhou, provisionally 35th about 4 hours and 5 minutes behind.

By the way, Fontana is driving a private Volkswagen.

A Chinese car in the top-10?!

In the hands of Sousa the car is quite handy. He targeted a top six finish and I think he might just get it. If driven instead by Zhou... I think he emphasises the reject spirit very well. In the first stage Sousa was 6th and Zhou was 149 from 155 drivers. On an official car backed by an entire factory and such. I think the lad is improving all the time and makes an effort to be better. It's top reject heroics!

[midgrid]

Reject wise, I detected the familiar name of Norberto Fontana in a car (which one I cannot recall).

Not a reject, but Jos the Boss was meant to be competing in the truck division; however, he was not able to obtain a Dutch truck drivers' licence in time.

[DemocalypseNow]

Is Carlos related to Bernardo Sousa? Or is Sousa just a really common surname in Portugal?

[Faustus]

Is Carlos related to Bernardo Sousa? Or is Sousa just a really common surname in Portugal?

You know, I honestly don't know and I'm embarassed that I don't. I've met Carlos Sousa several times but it never occurred to me if Bernardo the rally driver is his son.
'Sousa' is a very common surname in Portugal.

[Nessafox]

not a reject , but alex caffi is also in this dakar... with a fiat panda
he is listed as 'alessandro' in the competitors list.

and of course, jan lammers is also driving a truck, not that surprising seeing that half of the trucks entries are dutch

[Pointrox]

Well, I'm obviously supporting Krzysztof Holowczyc and hopefully he will achieve the success he deserves so much. May I remind you, that a few years ago he was driving the outdated Nissan Navarra and still could compete with top 10 drivers, so my hopes for "Holek" to win are high
And there's Adam Malysz, ski jumper-turned-endurance driver, who is doing impressively good for someone with very little experience!

As for trucks - good to see that Gerard keeps the legacy of his father alive.
However, I can't see Vladimir Chagin anywhere. Has "The Tsar of Dakar" retired or what?

[Nessafox]

[quote="Pointrox"However, I can't see Vladimir Chagin anywhere. Has "The Tsar of Dakar" retired or what?[/quote]
chagin and kabirov have indeed both retired

[tommykl]

Well, I'm obviously supporting Krzysztof Holowczyc and hopefully he will achieve the success he deserves so much. May I remind you, that a few years ago he was driving the outdated Nissan Navarra and still could compete with top 10 drivers, so my hopes for "Holek" to win are high

I support the same guy for three reasons:
1. He appeared in Michel Vaillant.
2. His co-driver is Belgian.
3. I just can't pronounce his name properly

[AdrianSutil]

Well, I'm obviously supporting Krzysztof Holowczyc and hopefully he will achieve the success he deserves so much. May I remind you, that a few years ago he was driving the outdated Nissan Navarra and still could compete with top 10 drivers, so my hopes for "Holek" to win are high

I support the same guy for three reasons:
1. He appeared in Michel Vaillant.
2. His co-driver is Belgian.
3. I just can't pronounce his name properly

I see a lot of Hungarians come through where I work (Eurotunnel) so I wouldn't be surprised if his name is pronounced Chris-toff Ho-lo-witz.

Honestly, Hungarians have names that come straight from an eye-test screen

[Sauber010]

Wow, Great Wall are taking part?! Where are they placed in the classification?

You have Carlos Sousa placed 9th, 21.46 minutes behind Holowczyc and then you have Yong Zhou, provisionally 35th about 4 hours and 5 minutes behind.

By the way, Fontana is driving a private Volkswagen.

A Chinese car in the top-10?!

I wouldn't quite be saying that a Chinese car is in the top 10, rather a Chinese bodied car is in there.
The Great Wall has been built and developed by the X Raid Dakar team who have previously run the BMW X3-CC's and currently run the Mini Countryman's. It is believed that all three of these cars have run off the same 'Dakar' platform, with just a change of body panels. Obvious similarities are the side and roof intake 'pods', and front under tray. They also run very similar internal bar work. Infact, all of the X-Raid built cars use a quite unique roof intake which runs the width of the car.

A good write up on this can be found here; http://www.marathonrally.com/news/sa_da ... 775.0.html

[DanielPT]

Is Carlos related to Bernardo Sousa? Or is Sousa just a really common surname in Portugal?

You know, I honestly don't know and I'm embarassed that I don't. I've met Carlos Sousa several times but it never occurred to me if Bernardo the rally driver is his son.
'Sousa' is a very common surname in Portugal.

No Bernardo Sousa is not Carlos Sousa son. It is just a coincidence from the fact that there are too many people called Sousa in Portugal.

By the way, Leal dos Santos lost about 2 hours and 40 minutes being stuck in a lake and not managing to get the car out. Now, how rejectful is that? His dreams of a top-10 drown at the lake.

[TomWazzleshaw]

By the way, Leal dos Santos lost about 2 hours and 40 minutes being stuck in a lake and not managing to get the car out. Now, how rejectful is that? His dreams of a top-10 drown at the lake.

Knowing the time-spread in Dakar Rallies, I wouldn't count him out just yet.

[DanielPT]

A Chinese car in the top-10?!

I wouldn't quite be saying that a Chinese car is in the top 10, rather a Chinese bodied car is in there.
The Great Wall has been built and developed by the X Raid Dakar team who have previously run the BMW X3-CC's and currently run the Mini Countryman's. It is believed that all three of these cars have run off the same 'Dakar' platform, with just a change of body panels. Obvious similarities are the side and roof intake 'pods', and front under tray. They also run very similar internal bar work. Infact, all of the X-Raid built cars use a quite unique roof intake which runs the width of the car.

A good write up on this can be found here; http://www.marathonrally.com/news/sa_da ... 775.0.html

Hum... I am not shocked at all. Most or all of Chinese manufacturing products are integral copies from something else. That doesn't mean the car is not Chinese. It means it is another cheap copy with Chinese labels on it. In this case a copy of an X3-CC.

[Sauber010]

A Chinese car in the top-10?!

I wouldn't quite be saying that a Chinese car is in the top 10, rather a Chinese bodied car is in there.
The Great Wall has been built and developed by the X Raid Dakar team who have previously run the BMW X3-CC's and currently run the Mini Countryman's. It is believed that all three of these cars have run off the same 'Dakar' platform, with just a change of body panels. Obvious similarities are the side and roof intake 'pods', and front under tray. They also run very similar internal bar work. Infact, all of the X-Raid built cars use a quite unique roof intake which runs the width of the car.

A good write up on this can be found here; http://www.marathonrally.com/news/sa_da ... 775.0.html

Hum... I am not shocked at all. Most or all of Chinese manufacturing products are integral copies from something else. That doesn't mean the car is not Chinese. It means it is another cheap copy with Chinese labels on it. In this case a copy of an X3-CC.

I think a more accurate way to put it is that the Great Wall is simply running a 'customer' X-Raid car, rather than a 'cheap copy'.

[DanielPT]

I wouldn't quite be saying that a Chinese car is in the top 10, rather a Chinese bodied car is in there.
The Great Wall has been built and developed by the X Raid Dakar team who have previously run the BMW X3-CC's and currently run the Mini Countryman's. It is believed that all three of these cars have run off the same 'Dakar' platform, with just a change of body panels. Obvious similarities are the side and roof intake 'pods', and front under tray. They also run very similar internal bar work. Infact, all of the X-Raid built cars use a quite unique roof intake which runs the width of the car.

A good write up on this can be found here; http://www.marathonrally.com/news/sa_da ... 775.0.html

Hum... I am not shocked at all. Most or all of Chinese manufacturing products are integral copies from something else. That doesn't mean the car is not Chinese. It means it is another cheap copy with Chinese labels on it. In this case a copy of an X3-CC.

I think a more accurate way to put it is that the Great Wall is simply running a 'customer' X-Raid car, rather than a 'cheap copy'.

Thing is, Great Wall says their Dakar cars come from third generation Haval H3 which is sold in China (being 2nd most sold SUV) and I must admit they very much do look alike... Perhaps X-Raid helped them to prepare the cars for racing whence they look like X3's.

[Sauber010]

Hum... I am not shocked at all. Most or all of Chinese manufacturing products are integral copies from something else. That doesn't mean the car is not Chinese. It means it is another cheap copy with Chinese labels on it. In this case a copy of an X3-CC.

I think a more accurate way to put it is that the Great Wall is simply running a 'customer' X-Raid car, rather than a 'cheap copy'.

Thing is, Great Wall says their Dakar cars come from third generation Haval H3 which is sold in China (being 2nd most sold SUV) and I must admit they very much do look alike... Perhaps X-Raid helped them to prepare the cars for racing whence they look like X3's.

X-Raid have also done a similar project with the Volvo Pewano in past years: http://www.dakar.com/PHOTOS/DAK/2012/100/36.jpg
I do see your point, but I understand that the X-Raid operation can be comparable to such operations as M-Sport and Prodrive in the WRC. These companies are contracted to build their car in WRC spec but yet appear to be close as close as possible to the production vehicle (the Fiesta and Mini). By this theory the Great Wall would be able to be marketed as a true Great Wall, yet be a special Dakar 'prototype' under the skin.

[dr-baker]

But whatever the reality, it is certainly a Chinese-branded vehicle, right?

By the way, what's the best result any Chinese-branded vehicle has scored in international motorsport?

[Sauber010]

But whatever the reality, it is certainly a Chinese-branded vehicle, right?

By the way, what's the best result any Chinese-branded vehicle has scored in international motorsport?

Of course it is, I'm just being nit-picky!

Very good question. I have no idea of the answer, but I would be beginning by looking into some endurance GT categories. That's if you don't want to include the A1 GP chinese cars!

[Shadaza]

I think it is Absurd that the competition is MIni vs Hummer. Could you get two more vastly different cars? (Well the mini isn't exactly mini!)

I am disappointed at the lack of VW Tourages though.

[Myrvold]

Reject wise, I detected the familiar name of Norberto Fontana in a car (which one I cannot recall).

Not a reject, but Jos the Boss was meant to be competing in the truck division; however, he was not able to obtain a Dutch truck drivers' licence in time.

Instead he went home and beat the h**l out of another girlfriend. Jeez.

And the former top-ski jumper Adam Malysz is driving.

[dr-baker]

According to Autosport, today's stage from Argentina into Chile (I think - I read the artcle 20 - 30 minutes ago) has been cancelled due to adverse weather conditions.

[DanielPT]

According to Autosport, today's stage from Argentina into Chile (I think - I read the artcle 20 - 30 minutes ago) has been cancelled due to adverse weather conditions.

True. And Nikolaev, the guy who took over the role of Chagin at Kamaz, was excluded due to unsporting behaviour.

[Pointrox]

True. And Nikolaev, the guy who took over the role of Chagin at Kamaz, was excluded due to unsporting behaviour.

I've checked it - they hit the back of the other car (Hilux), that was going slowly because of their broken steering, and caused it to roll over two times. What's more, they didn't give any help to them.
Plus, they changed the wheel in an unauthorized place.
Well deserved EX for Nikolaev and his crew - that was an ass move from them that put Di Palma and his navigator in danger. And they apparently didn't know the rules.

[dr-baker]

Stage 8 and there is still a Great Wall in 8th and 4 Minis in the top-10, but it's looking like Robby Gordon in his Hummer is likely to pass Peter Hansel ( ) for the rally lead in the next stage/day or two. But does anybody know how many days are, in fact, left?

[DanielPT]

Stage 8 and there is still a Great Wall in 8th and 4 Minis in the top-10, but it's looking like Robby Gordon in his Hummer is likely to pass Peter Hansel ( ) for the rally lead in the next stage/day or two. But does anybody know how many days are, in fact, left?

14 stages. So 5 to go. About Gordon overtaking Peterhansel I don't know... The Hummer, while quicker, also has a tendency to have more problems than the Mini.

And Sousa is doing a wonderful job in the Great Wall. After the Toyota of De Villiers he is the second non Hummer or Mini.

[Pointrox]

The Hummer, while quicker, also has a tendency to have more problems than the Mini.

...which Nasser Al-Attiyah has experienced today - he retired after an electrical failure.

Sousa in Great Wall is seventh! They're better than any BMW, VW, Nissan, Opel, Mitsubishi and much better than the other Great Wall, with Yong Zhou at the wheel.
Holowczyc is 3rd, 16 minutes behind Peter Hansel
Adam Malysz is slowly going up the standings - now he's 36th out of 71 drivers, which is a good result for a rookie

[DanielPT]

Small update on ex-F1 drivers:

Fontana withdrew at stage 5 and Alex Caffi was excluded after stage 7.

Sousa lost time yesterday but is still 7th while Holowczyz lost a huge chunk of time in the day before and is now 11th. Gordon is bidding his time since he appealed his expulsion due to a technical rule infringement (he apparently is using a self-inflating system for the tires which is illegal). Final decision not yet made. Anyway, unless Peterhansel finds trouble the victory is practically assured.

Just a note: Paulo Gonçalves was penalized Wednesday because he was allegedly towed by someone else since he was stuck in a swamp river which was signalled as a dry river in the road book. This was after he helped Despres leave the place (he was also stuck and the organization removed the time he lost because of this) who, in turn, left him for dead. This penalty came because other drivers complained about it. So, Paulo, what lesson did you learn in the end? Yes, that's right, bathplug the Dakar spirit of helping others (at least in the top 20) because, in the end, it is just a farce and it is you that will get screwed over...

[dr-baker]

Small update on ex-F1 drivers:

Fontana withdrew at stage 5 and Alex Caffi was excluded after stage 7.

Why did Fontana withdraw and Caffi excluded?

[DanielPT]

Small update on ex-F1 drivers:

Fontana withdrew at stage 5 and Alex Caffi was excluded after stage 7.

Why did Fontana withdraw and Caffi excluded?

Fontana had engine troubles. He arrived late after the stage and couldn't fix the engine in time to start the following stage (If my Spanish didn't deceives me).

Caffi hit trouble too (Engine I think) and did not managed to finish the stage in time therefore was excluded.

[Cynon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH6WB-nPh38

Go get'm, Robby!

[dr-baker]

Final results - So 3 Minis in the top-4, Gordon in his Hummer in 5th, with the risk of exclusion. Sousa in his Great Wall 7th (6th if the Hummer is DSQed) - best result for a Chinese brand in international sport yet (excluding A1GP)? And 5 Minis in the top-10!

[DemocalypseNow]

Krzysztof Holowczyc only 10th