Your Reject of the Race - Singapore!

Libertango · Post by **Libertango** » 27 Sep 2009, 14:35

Heidfeld sounds like he lost the championship: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78964

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 27 Sep 2009, 14:50

This time around, it's far more difficult to pick a winner for the award, I'm afraid.
Still, I noticed a few things that should be under consideration:

-brake discs
-Toro Rosso with Alguersuari working as a mobile chicane and then both cars retiring in the pitlane at the same time
-Rosberg's cold tyres
-Ferrari because they have had an anonymous weekend
-Sutil for causing a safety car

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 27 Sep 2009, 14:55

I'm going to go for Sutil for doing something "completely stupid". Not a racing incident, very very clumsy and careless.

Ben Gilbert · Post by **Ben Gilbert** » 27 Sep 2009, 15:29

Given that Hamilton was given the benefit of the doubt by many for binning it on the last lap at Monza, I personally can't see why Sutil should be nominated.

It was clear to see from how ragged he was getting that he was fed up of being stuck behind Alguersuari*, and he was only behind the Torro Rosso due to its appalling handling forcing the driver to use all of the track. He saw a gap, and took it, though with the length of the straight, it wasn't going to happen.

Sutil brought some excitement into a what was developing into a dull race (before that incident, there was no doubt as to the finishing order), and was trying to push, just as Hamilton was last race. Given the speed of the incident and spin, and how agitated Sutil was, it would be difficult for him to judge how close Heidfeld was to the apex, and by trying to get back racing asap, a collision was going to happen.

My nominations go to

The Red Bull Family, again

What happened?

After qualifying, it seemed to be going fine for all of their cars. Vettel and Webber were well up the grid and looked set for decent points, Buemi got into Q2 and Alguersuari got off the back row.

But then in the race, we have Alguersuari's appalling handling set off the Sutil-Heidfled incident, then he destroys the fuel rig and retires with cooked brakes. Where did the cautious Jaime go, because he moved in the pitlane before the lollipop was up. Buemi wasn't too bad, but had his wings clipped at the same time as his team mate. Then there was Webber, the least rejectful of them, having a brake failure and Vettel speeds in the pitlane. And people thought that Red Bull would bring themselves back into contention this race.

Admittedly, Vettel did save face by grabbing fourth, but his title chances are all but over unless Button and Barrichello do some daft things in the next three races.

Jarno Trulli

Twelfth when Timo is second, need I say more?

Brakes all round

Again, I feel like we've gone back in time: Pitstop blunders, more than one crash, several cars losing their brakes and a driver coasting to the finish with only two of his working.

The Stewards

Complete lack of consistency, combined with (if such a combo is possible) reading the rules to the letter, not taking circumstances into account.

Webber penalised for going off track, but Alonso deemed innocent despite doing the same and in fact causing Webber's excursion. Rosberg penalised for crossing the line while actually losing time, hence negating the need for a penalty.

As Enoch pointed out, these two incidents bring the Raikkonen case at Spa into question again. Rosberg went off track and gained no advantage, but Raikkonen did and managed to pass two cars, yet the Ferrari escapes penalty. Webber may have been forced off-track, but Raikkonen went off track voluntarily, yet the same result.

Just makes me think that we need a permanent council of stewards, rather than one which varies race-to-race. It would bring in a bit more consistency at the very least, and therefore less RotR nominations for them.

(*- Not Jaime's fault, I might add. Considering that he's nineteen, and that it was both his first race at Singapore and first night race, he did rather well, aside from the lollipop incident. But if you look closely you can see the Torro Rosso snaking through the bends. Makes me wonder if he had more than gearbox trouble in the race)

Whis · Post by **Whis** » 27 Sep 2009, 15:52

Giancarlo Fisichella.

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 27 Sep 2009, 16:11

The race organisers for not cleaning up the track properly. How was anyone meant to overtake with all that urban detritus off-line and how is it meant to make a good or accurate impression of their clean and tidy city?

kowalski · Post by **kowalski** » 27 Sep 2009, 16:29

lostpin wrote:I think that the Singapore GP was as fun and interesting as the Valencia GP. Obviously someone still can't figure out that street racing is so booooriiiiing!!!

P.S. I want my two hours of life back!

Yup,

a shockingly dull race... after the first lap that was it for the racing.

- also, who was the bathplug in the mclaren pits with the oversized sunglasses?

kowalski · Post by **kowalski** » 27 Sep 2009, 16:31

kowalski wrote:bathplug

i could have sworn i wrote somethining far more offensive there....

RAK · Post by **RAK** » 27 Sep 2009, 17:18

What a rejectful race! Perhaps that's why I actually enjoyed it where everybody else here found it hopelessly dull. OK, street races are notoriously bad for overtaking, but we really saw some really good cock-ups, and isn't that what F1 Rejects is really all about? And at least there was less of that incredibly boring reliability at Valencia. If we're to scrap a street circuit on the calendar, Valencia should really be eliminated first, because it's probably the most pointless race on the grid when there's a better permanent track nearby.

It's difficult to choose between "Not-So-Quick" Nick Heidfeld's team for not putting in enough ballast, Grosjean for pitting on the fourth lap, Sutil for bashing into the side of Heidfeld, Rosberg for messing up his pitstop and his chances to finish high up, Fisichella for really not getting to grips with the car, Raikonnen for having an anonymous race and the whole Red Bull family for various incidents (Vettel for pit entry speeding and breaking his diffuser, Webber for stuffing it into the wall, Alguersuari and Buemi... well, side-by-side retirements).

I think, though, that I'll have to give it to Nico Rosberg, for throwing away a potential podium in an incident which happened to be far too close to the safety car period for his own good.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 27 Sep 2009, 17:21

I'm going to vote for Red Bull and Toro Rosso too, particularly their brakes. This will be hard to count for the person who keeps the score, but just count me as either Red Bull, Toro Rosso or something with brakes, I guess...

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 27 Sep 2009, 17:41

Ben Gilbert wrote:Given that Hamilton was given the benefit of the doubt by many for binning it on the last lap at Monza, I personally can't see why Sutil should be nominated.

Hamilton didn't whack anyone else whilst trying to recover though!

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 27 Sep 2009, 17:43

Gotta be Rosberg and Vettel for pissing away sure podiums.

Ben Gilbert · Post by **Ben Gilbert** » 27 Sep 2009, 18:11

fjackdaw wrote:
Ben Gilbert wrote:Given that Hamilton was given the benefit of the doubt by many for binning it on the last lap at Monza, I personally can't see why Sutil should be nominated.

Hamilton didn't whack anyone else whilst trying to recover though!

Sutil didn't lose a podium and concede defending his drivers title though!

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 27 Sep 2009, 18:19

Waris wrote:This will be hard to count for the person who keeps the score, but just count me as either Red Bull, Toro Rosso or something with brakes, I guess...

Isn't the Captain too lazy to count the votes on this thread?

watka · Post by **watka** » 27 Sep 2009, 18:51

Keirdre wrote:Sutil all the way. He finished Heidfeld's Boring Man F1 Finishing Record (although that's no big loss). Algersauri a valiant runner-up.

Until you mentioned that, the Red Bull family were going to be my nominee. Vettel's speeding (not as bad as Badoer though), Webber's brakes, and the Toro Rosso's failures summed up a pretty woeful weekend when both teams looked like they'd made big steps forward from Monza. However, Sutil's incident was completely immature. I've I know from just playing lots of racing games that you don't just spin yourself round on the apex of a corner in front of traffic. He's talented yes, but he's been in F1 for 3 years now, and he should know what he's doing.

Ben Gilbert wrote:Given that Hamilton was given the benefit of the doubt by many for binning it on the last lap at Monza, I personally can't see why Sutil should be nominated.

I don't understand why Hamilton got given the benefit of the doubt at Monza. He dumps it on the last lap at Monza and he's branded a "true racer". Nakajima bins it on the last lap of Monaco and he's branded an idiot. In both cases, neither driver had much to race for (Hamilton was a second behind Button and had half a lap left, it wasn't going to happen), and both ignored the limits of their cars. Sutil was equally reckless. Alguersuari did nothing wrong, Sutil gave a half-hearted lunge, tried to pull out of it, and spun in the process, then proceed to take Heidfeld out of the race and ruin his record.

(Dis)honourable mention also for Trulli, roundly trounced by his team-mate.

lostpin · Post by **lostpin** » 27 Sep 2009, 19:11

thehemogoblin wrote:Gotta be Rosberg and Vettel for pissing away sure podiums.

I totally agree, they both deserve a fair share of Race Rejectdom. It seems to me that they both perceived that Lewis wasn't so quick, so probably they felt that they actually had a chance on winning the race. And who knows, if it wasn't for those mishaps in the pitlane, the finale of the race might have been far more breathtaking than it really was. But again they pushed it far too much and lost it, while Lewis was having a calm drive..

BTW, I think you'll agree that Vettel's car looked like a Bluesmobile, falling apart as it went down the end of the race... :lol:

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 27 Sep 2009, 20:15

shinji wrote:
Waris wrote:This will be hard to count for the person who keeps the score, but just count me as either Red Bull, Toro Rosso or something with brakes, I guess...

Isn't the Captain too lazy to count the votes on this thread?

Isn't it Jamie and Enoch who get to decide this award each race anyway, regardless of voting patterns on this forum?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 27 Sep 2009, 20:16

Red Bull F1 (inc. STR)
What a wasted weekend. 3 cars retired, and another throws 2nd away by speeding in pit lane.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 27 Sep 2009, 21:43

-Ferrari: Out of pace in this weekend.
-Trulli: Starting losing for Glock in qualify, humilation lose in race, no points score against a 2nd place of Glock and 2nd crap race in a row.
-Grosjean: Poorest pace than Nelsinho Piquet. Spin in Pratice, Only 19th again in qualify! And a race for forget. Of course, renault #8 its a Minardi painting with renault colors but he's can put this car more ahead in grid. For me, a strong candidate for reject of the year award with nakagima.
-Rosberg: Throw away a certainly 2nd place (in best case, a victory) with a rookie error.
-Kovalainen: Hamilton wins and he 7th.
Toro Rosso: DNF of your cars in same lap and in same moment is much reject.
F1 Street Circuits: 3 more boring races in 2009.

BabyG · Post by **BabyG** » 27 Sep 2009, 23:01

Current points scoring system - If Bernie had had his way and the medals had been introduced at the start of 2009, Jensen Button would have been crowned world champion this weekend. Its a joke! I'd much rather have it all wrapped up nice an early and then enjoy the remainder of the season safe in the knowledge that there is nothing left to play for - no one like a tense season finale :mrgreen:

!

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 27 Sep 2009, 23:04

Red Bull - both Webber and Vettel had their best chance of putting themselves back in the title fight, but once again, stupid pit lane mitakes cost them dearly.

Ferrari - for a very unFerrari-like showing all weekend.

The White Line - cost Nico Rosberg a podium or even a possible win.

Nick Heifeld - absolutely nowhere in the race after being absolutely everywhere in qualifying.

Adrian Sutil - ended Heidfeld's run of consecutive finishes, and with it, his record.

But my vote goes to Red Bull.

kb9vrg · Post by **kb9vrg** » 27 Sep 2009, 23:35

I'm going to go out on a limb...

Adiran Newey - Three of the four cars he was responsible for designing did not finish the race. One due to brake failure, two likely due to safety reasons. Not only that, but the car that did finish had all sorts of bits fly off it.. Diffuser... Mirror...

Speed TV - For airing an abbreviated qualifying show. Sure, we had the Petit LeMans happening at 11:00am EDT, but couldn't you have used some of that red flag time to fill in what we missed? And why did Peter Windsor spend so much time waiting to talk to Will I Am from the Black Eyed Peas? If I wanted to listen to him, I'd turn on MTV.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 27 Sep 2009, 23:46

dr-baker wrote:Isn't it Jamie and Enoch who get to decide this award each race anyway, regardless of voting patterns on this forum?

Well, yes, ultimately there's nothing democratic in the choice of ROTR

. And often there's nothing rational either ...

But I guess the point of this thread is to allow everyone to put in their 2c worth, as if you could wield the power to bestow the dubious honour on some poor sod.

I will say this, though ... I'm mildly fascinated by how many of you use "makes mistake with championship implications" an important criteria for your ROTR. Fair enough, I guess (in which case Red Bull may as well have taken out the last five ROTR awards!), but that would mean that championship contenders get an unfair advantage in walking away with ROTR each race!

If there is any method in our madness - and mostly there isn't - then "championship-hurting error" scores very poorly compared to "sheer daftness". :lol:

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 28 Sep 2009, 00:17

watka wrote:I don't understand why Hamilton got given the benefit of the doubt at Monza. He dumps it on the last lap at Monza and he's branded a "true racer". Nakajima bins it on the last lap of Monaco and he's branded an idiot.

I think you're over-polarising it somewhat. Hamilton did a stupid thing but at least he was giving it everything he got in comparison to his lacklustre team mate. There are no plaudits for binning it on the last lap with nothing to gain, no matter who you are, but one can at least appreciate someone letting it all hang out and giving it everything they've got. I'm not a fan of Hamilton's by any stretch, but the guy's a damn good racer, and a hard racer too - he makes pathetic mistakes almost as often as he puts in blinding performances, but he's rarely mediocre. I'm sure the same can't be said for Nakajima.

Imrryr · Post by **Imrryr** » 28 Sep 2009, 00:20

@Capn' Hammer - Did you miss the part where Nick started from the pit lane? I can't really blame him for not being able to get anywhere, since no one else who was stuck behind the embarrassingly slow Alguersuari was able to get by either.

And speaking of Alguersuari, Jaime looked totally out of his depth today. At one point he was lapping 1.5 to 2 seconds slower than the next car up the road, and he had amassed quite a train by the time he finally pitted. Then, on his way out, he tried to take the fuel hose with him! According to Franz Tost, that incident damaged their fuel rig, forcing Buemi (who was actually doing pretty well) to make another stop when no fuel went in the first time. So, Alguersauri has to get my vote. I know he needs experience, but the middle of the season is not the time to give it to him.

I'll let Red Bull slide, because sadly Red Bull's problems provided most of the entertainment today...

@Kb9vrg - Yeah, I cringed when he was interviewing Will I Am... If there was seriously no one else to talk to, I would've interviewed one of those guys who keeps an eye on the tire warmers. Those guys are probably more interesting.

*edited for typos D:

Jack O Malley · Post by **Jack O Malley** » 28 Sep 2009, 01:01

Sutil.

F***ed up Heidfeld's record, with a very dangerous manouevre.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 28 Sep 2009, 01:04

Maybe Sutil deserved it. Could be. The moved that caused the collision with Heidfeld was silly and unnecessary. But he got in that position because he tried passing, even if he couldn't. As I said about Hamilton in Monza, I'll always let the idiot off the hook.

Much as I love Williams and admire Rosberg, that was unnecessary. Sure, he was taken by surprise, but he's a good candidate. Likewise, Vettel, throwing it away. Again. How many times has it been this season?

But the Red Bull feebleness really gets it. They have double the cars everyone else has on track, so they should have double the data. That their cars suffer brake fade and failure so intense Webber end on the wall and Alguersuari DNFs because of it is an insult to the people financing the operation. Adrian - time to get Geoff Willis back on the team?

AllAmericanReject · Post by **AllAmericanReject** » 28 Sep 2009, 02:09

I'll cast my vote for the stewards. The Webber penalty was a load of Red Bull. I guess he was found guilty of not driving a Ferrari. As for the Rosberg penalty, what ever happened to the punishment fitting the crime? He gained no advantage, and thanks to the safety car period and the field bunching up, he lost 12 positions.

All in all, this race was absolutely putrid. At least the next two rounds are at real racing circuits.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 28 Sep 2009, 02:16

Imrryr wrote:@Capn' Hammer - Did you miss the part where Nick started from the pit lane? I can't really blame him for not being able to get anywhere, since no one else who was stuck behind the embarrassingly slow Alguersuari was able to get by either.

And speaking of Alguersuari, Jaime looked totally out of his depth today. At one point he was lapping 1.5 to 2 seconds slower than the next car up the road, and he had amassed quite a train by the time he finally pitted. Then, on his way out, he tried to take the fuel hose with him! According to Franz Tost, that incident damaged their fuel rig, forcing Buemi (who was actually doing pretty well) to make another stop when no fuel went in the first time. So, Alguersauri has to get my vote. I know he needs experience, but the middle of the season is not the time to give it to him.

Cut the kid some slack. It's what, his fifth race? And it's on a circuit that is not only totally new for him, but the concpt of night racing is also unfamiliar. I actually think he was pretty impressive, qualifying ahead of Fisichella, Liuzzi and Grosjean, and he was only a tenth of a second off Sutil. It was easily his most impressive qualifying performance to date, equal with Spa. Even if he was off the pace in the race, I think he's getting better and better.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 28 Sep 2009, 02:48

Toro Rosso -- Apparently, these guys have been watching NASCAR's start and park 'phenomenon' in which a team deliberately parks their cars because it's more cost-effective. To be fair to the Start and Park teams, most of them do it to raise money. However, one team, MSRP Motorsports, NEVER goes the whole distance (except in one case when a sponsor of a car that DNQ'd bought the slot on the grid). So for pulling an MSRP, I nominate the Toyota of the Backmarkers, STR. Even if they didn't start and park, the team was, for better word -- craptastic.

Sebastian Vettel -- For blowing a sure podium. I can excuse Rosberg a little bit. He didn't gain an advantage from his rule discretion -- actually a disadvantage -- whereas Vettel effed up big time.

Adrian Sutil -- His Riccardo Rosset impersonation cost Heidfeld his running-at-the-finish streak at 41 races!

Singapore Circuit -- Not as bad as Valencia, but it's dusty, created a ton of problems for various people, and had it not been at night it would have cured my insomnia. Also, I might add that I caught up on reading for one of my classes with the race in the background and still didn't miss anything more exciting than Toro Rosso's MSRP Motorsports impersonation.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 28 Sep 2009, 04:53

I don't think Toro Rosso are deliberately withdrawing their cars because it's more cost-effective. If they did, the FIA would have their heads. And I can't see how it would be more cost-effective than finishing. No, Buemi was retired because the team was concerned for his brakes after Webber's accident - the walls on the circuit are awfully close together, and a brake failure anywhere other than the first corner could have been a disaster (Webber was only saved by the fact that he deliberately pitched it into a spin when he felt them go ... ironically, he crashed intentionally to stop a bigger accident) - while Alguersuari had a gearbox problem, which would explain his lack of pace as the race went on.

ZsoltForever · Post by **ZsoltForever** » 28 Sep 2009, 05:49

Rosberg is a no-brainer for me.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 28 Sep 2009, 06:47

The Red Bull Stable AGAIN. I mean seriously how many times this season has someone from Red Bull/STR been nominated this season? I'm gonna put my neck on the line here and say that those 2 teams deserve ROTY simply because they've had so many mechanical problems, errors, pitline issues, penalties (basically the lot).

Jordan192 · Post by **Jordan192** » 28 Sep 2009, 07:50

Sutil.

Rosberg, Vettel and Sutil all made 'ordinary' level mistakes - Pit infractions for the first two, the 'move' on Algersuari for Sutil.
However, Sutil very quickly followed his up with an 'Advanced' level mistake by not looking to his left before attempting to rejoin after the spin. The move on Algersuari was dumb, but the kind of everyday stuff you expect in motor racing. Taking out Heidfeld, however, was a level beyond that, and utterly avoidable.

wombat · Post by **wombat** » 28 Sep 2009, 08:32

Stewards get my vote

Took their time to let Webber know he had to let Alonso back through and by the way - he had to let Glock through as well because he had passed Alonso while they were naval gazing
Rosberg addressed his problem and probably lost a lot of time doing it
Vettel 1.4km over the speed limit - give me a break

The stewards ruined a good race by taking out the two drivers who were capable of taking it to Hamilton

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 28 Sep 2009, 08:37

Kovalainen is worth a mention, he seems to be consitantly putting in reject worthy performances but slipping under the radar by doing nothing spectacularly wrong, but yet again he's way off the pace in a race winning car. Also a special mention for Trulli, I get the feeling he's been told his Toyota days are over, that didn't look like a man fighting to keep his drive.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 28 Sep 2009, 08:40

Captain Hammer wrote:The White Line - cost Nico Rosberg a podium or even a possible win.

err, that's like your parachute failing and blaming the floor for your injuries...

Winterspring · Post by **Winterspring** » 28 Sep 2009, 08:54

Both Nico and Vettel because they made stupid errors that messed up their and the teams' race.

I mean speeding in the pitlane and Nico going over the white line, that messed up great weekends for them. But you could also add in Force India for being no-where excluding Sutil hitting Heidfeld. Toro Rosso at least had Buemi in Q2 and Nakajima put in a decent performance even though he didn't get any point at all.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 28 Sep 2009, 08:55

wombat wrote:Took their time to let Webber know he had to let Alonso back through and by the way - he had to let Glock through as well because he had passed Alonso while they were naval gazing

Did it not occur to you that they needed to take their time to follow up on the incident. Some, like Sutil and Heidfeld, are clear-cut cases of wrong-doing. But in a start like that one, the stewards obviously had to sort a lot of stuff out to determine whether or not they felt Webber had done wrong.

wombat wrote:Rosberg addressed his problem and probably lost a lot of time doing it

That is neither here nor there. What if Rosberg crossed over the line at the same moment as someone coming into the first corner made a passing move, or got their line wrong? You'd have Rosberg's slower Williams right in the path of a faster car.

wombat wrote:Vettel 1.4km over the speed limit - give me a break

Again, that's beside the point. If you break the rule, you have to take the penalty. The speed limit it 100km/h for a reason; if you start letting drivers off because they were 1.4km/h over the limit, you're effectively making the limit 101.4km/h. What happens then if someone goes 102.8km/h, the same 1.4km/h over the old limit? You have to draw the line somewhere; if you don't, teams are going to start exploiting it, giving them an unfair advantage.

And I bet that if the stewards didn't enforce one of those rules, you'd be on here deriding them for not holding up the rules of the race.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 28 Sep 2009, 09:11

Captain Hammer wrote:
wombat wrote:Vettel 1.4km over the speed limit - give me a break

Again, that's beside the point. If you break the rule, you have to take the penalty. The speed limit it 100km/h for a reason; if you start letting drivers off because they were 1.4km/h over the limit, you're effectively making the limit 101.4km/h. What happens then if someone goes 102.8km/h, the same 1.4km/h over the old limit? You have to draw the line somewhere; if you don't, teams are going to start exploiting it, giving them an unfair advantage.

And I bet that if the stewards didn't enforce one of those rules, you'd be on here deriding them for not holding up the rules of the race.

Unless you're Ferrari, remember when they had barge boards outside the maximum dimensions in 1999? They were allowed a tollerance by the FIA.